2011.01.02 19:00 - The Relational Self

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeno. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

Bleu Oleander: hi Aph
Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone
Bleu Oleander: hey Cal
Calvino Rabeni: Hello Uli
Uli Helendale: Hello :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Uli
Calvino Rabeni: Have you been here before?
Aphrodite Macbain: Happy New Year everyone
Calvino Rabeni: I'll give you a note
Uli Helendale: And Bleu and all :) No, I haven't been here before.
Bleu Oleander: HNY Aph!
Aphrodite Macbain: You look beautiul Bleu
Bleu Oleander: oh ty Aph!
Uli Helendale: Thank you, Calvino.
Calvino Rabeni: We do short meditations and talk in between ..
Calvino Rabeni: also there's a chat recorder at the pool here, and the dialogue is published on our wiki
Uli Helendale: Wonderful :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Please have a cushion Uli
Calvino Rabeni: so we ask visitors if that's OK with them
Uli Helendale: Yes, that's fine, thank you.
Calvino Rabeni: ;) thanks
Calvino Rabeni: Bleu - I was in a gallery
Bleu Oleander: in sl Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: and I saw some computer generated art, a huge collage of cubes
Calvino Rabeni: no in an office in RL
Bleu Oleander: oh nice
Calvino Rabeni: but it made me think of our various projects
Aphrodite Macbain: where was that Cal?
Calvino Rabeni: Downtown Seattle in a private office
Calvino Rabeni: Anyway I made these cubes that are in the pool
Bleu Oleander: I was going to ask you about them ...
Calvino Rabeni: if you click on one of the top ones Bleu, it will follow your voice
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Mitzi
Bleu Oleander: what does that mean
Calvino Rabeni: so the bottom one responds to me
Calvino Rabeni: and they move when their person talks
Bleu Oleander: oh nice
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Mitzi
Bleu Oleander: how did you do that?
Calvino Rabeni: If you like you can even put your own texture onto your cube
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Hi everyone, nice crew tonight! Happy New Year, Calvino
Bleu Oleander: wow that's cool
Calvino Rabeni: How have you been, Mitzi?
Bleu Oleander: hi Mitzi
Calvino Rabeni: Long time no see
Aphrodite Macbain: Mitzi comes in many forms, all naked
Bleu Oleander: hi Brian
Brian Roop: hello all
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Brian
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I am well ... thanks for inquiring! Had a nice long vacation with family, all went quite nicely, and am ready to get back to the daily routine. How are the rest of you all in this brave new year?
Aphrodite Macbain: I cant change the colour of the middle cube- it's locked
Calvino Rabeni: Semi brave Mitzi :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Naked huh, Aph? I guess I am self-disclosing!!
Aphrodite Macbain: Feeling brave too
Uli Helendale: Hey, Aziel :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice words
Aziel Sigall: Hi Uli
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi everyone :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi ssl
Brian Roop: hi sophia, uli
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Sophia
Bleu Oleander: hi Aziel
Uli Helendale: Hello Brian :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Sharon
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Danger
Aphrodite Macbain: Aziel?
SophiaSharon Larnia clicks all the things in the fountain, wondering they do anything :D
Aziel Sigall: ?
Aphrodite Macbain: K
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Aziel
Aziel Sigall: hi
Brian Roop: they are daisies or something
Aphrodite Macbain: Is this your first time here?
Aziel Sigall: DOn't know.
Aphrodite Macbain: Cal has a card he can give you
Calvino Rabeni: I advise visitors - the converstions are recorded during this session and go onto our wiki at http://wiki.playasbeing.org/
Uli Helendale: Hi, Tess :)
Brian Roop: hi tess
Tess Aristocrat: hello ???
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Tess
Aphrodite Macbain: Please take a cushion Aziel
Aphrodite Macbain: Cor - do you really want us to ignore you?
--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: ask Cal, Aphrodite :) hehe
Bleu Oleander: hi Tess, Rhia :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Rhi
Tess Aristocrat: Hello Rhia ???
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Tess!
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Sophia!
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Bleu!
Aphrodite Macbain: How are the birds Rhi?
Bleu Oleander: what birds?
Rhiannon Dragoone: Aphrodite, they are awesome; Rhiannon of the Birds is my namesake
Rhiannon Dragoone: So i too her name as my display name
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Aziel!
Bleu Oleander: ah
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Cal
Calvino Rabeni: What's new Rhiannon?
Aphrodite Macbain: tell memore about her please Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone: Aphrodite, she was the queen of Fairy, fell in love with a mortal, Pwyll, and lost her immortality (although she gained it back and is still seen riding on the Tor in walew)
Rhiannon Dragoone: She was accused of eating her children, and Pwyll had her assume the status of a horse for a while
Aphrodite Macbain: wales?
Rhiannon Dragoone: She is also a name of the Lady of the Lake
Rhiannon Dragoone: Wales
Bleu Oleander: is that the Stevie Nicks song?
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi ceekku
Rhiannon Dragoone: i write stories about her great descendent, and have had several published
SophiaSharon Larnia: a loyto f women of the sea, lakes, water, in mythology :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Bleu, it is based on her, yes
SophiaSharon Larnia: a lot*
Aphrodite Macbain: a welsh story?
Aphrodite Macbain: sdoes she speak bird?
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, from the Mabingeon
Rhiannon Dragoone: she has three birds, that are mystical, that she controls
Rhiannon Dragoone: One is the bird of justice
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Ceekku
Rhiannon Dragoone: one is the bird of life
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Ceekku
Rhiannon Dragoone: aziel crashed
ceekku Resident: Hello
Aphrodite Macbain: lovely story. I'll google it for more
Uli Helendale: No, Aziel left.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Yes, google Rhiannon; you will also get some of my stories listed
Aphrodite Macbain: oh. hope she's OK
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, hope she's ok
Uli Helendale: Yes, fine, Aphrodite. :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: welcome to SL Ceeku
SophiaSharon Larnia: Cekku, sorry
SophiaSharon Larnia: if you right click on the plillow, you can sit on it
SophiaSharon Larnia: chose sit here
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, oh, she's in the fountain
Rhiannon Dragoone giggles
Aphrodite Macbain: are you havig problems seeing ceekku?
ceekku Resident: no?
SophiaSharon Larnia: welcome to play as being :)
Aphrodite Macbain: don't get wet, it's cold out here
ceekku Resident: What are we doing?
Calvino Rabeni: It took me months to learn not to stagger around in second life - like a baby learning to walk
ceekku Resident: buddha?
Rhiannon Dragoone: not so bad today,Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: talking right now, and the conversation is being reorded
Rhiannon Dragoone: Cal,heh, i have laggy controls; often would staggert if not for my AO
SophiaSharon Larnia: me too, still do that in the official SL viewer hahahah
ceekku Resident: if you wanna see me naked pay 1$
Aphrodite Macbain: recorded!
SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs
Calvino Rabeni: Every 15 minutes we do a silent meditation for 90 seconds, just to notice exactly what's happening
Aphrodite Macbain: Lotsa naked bodies here aleady
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, oh, conversation is being recorded; be careful Aph; i've gotten banned for quoting the wrong person
Calvino Rabeni: not here
SophiaSharon Larnia: ok, gtg
Rhiannon Dragoone: no, not here
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) banned?
Calvino Rabeni: its harder to get banned by quoting
SophiaSharon Larnia: have fun everyone :D
Rhiannon Dragoone: cu Sophia
Calvino Rabeni: Bye SSL
Bleu Oleander: bye Sharon
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, i know, Cal; when i got banned, i sought places like this out
Aphrodite Macbain: are you leaving already sharon?
Rhiannon Dragoone: I've left after just arriving when there's a rl problem
Rhiannon Dragoone: Woah, lag; although i'm seeing *everyone* perfectly
Rhiannon Dragoone: And I can sit! Yay!
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: I'm wondering about that thing that happens every session here, that we don't understand - how to topics get started?
Aphrodite Macbain: I saw a creat Ted Talk this afternoon on the subject of shame and vulnerability: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
Bleu Oleander: saw it also Aph
Calvino Rabeni: Yes that is a good series anything by Brene Brown on TED
Aphrodite Macbain: It continues that discusion wehad on shame a fw weeks ago. Zen mentioned it this mrning. Very moving
Calvino Rabeni: It opens some new ways to think about those things
Aphrodite Macbain: I highly recomend it - sent it to all my RL friends
Aphrodite Macbain: It kind of kick started meinto 2011
Calvino Rabeni: It's not that the IDEAS are new, its the "approachability" she gives it - very personable
Bleu Oleander: worthiness .... topic for tonight?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes and the way she puts ideastogether
Rhiannon Dragoone: Is someone starting a fire?
Calvino Rabeni: No Rhi that's an experimental art piece ... just for today
Aphrodite Macbain: yes worthiness to connect wih others
Calvino Rabeni: still being worked on- hope it's not too distracting
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, i'm not sure i'm seeing it all, but what i am seeing is very pretty
Aphrodite Macbain: fear of shame
Rhiannon Dragoone: no, just wondered what it was
Aphrodite Macbain: It's getting taller Cal
Bleu Oleander: excruciating vulnerability
Bleu Oleander: let ourselves be seen
Bleu Oleander: practice gratitude and joy
Aphrodite Macbain: yes and the willingness and courage to be vulnerable. Truly P@Bian kin concept
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, one of the points I think is that shame isn't an emotion it includes a whole unconscious set of social attitudes and is sometimes hard to notice even when it is happening
Tess Aristocrat: ???
Bleu Oleander: I am enough
Rhiannon Dragoone: I like that; practice gratitude--it leads to joy
Rhiannon Dragoone: Because it focus us on what we have; not what we don't have
Tess Aristocrat: yes and also, what can I do to help
Rhiannon Dragoone: wb Tess
Tess Aristocrat: I like to practice that
Tess Aristocrat: hehe..thanks
Aphrodite Macbain: But it starts by accepting yourself
Aphrodite Macbain: Maybe I'll call myself shameless ahrodite
Tess Aristocrat: it's not having what you want but wanting what you have ;)
Calvino Rabeni: She wrote a book on accepting life as real including imperfections
Bleu Oleander: did you read it?
Calvino Rabeni: it was a kind of self help book, but she's a serious social researcher
Aphrodite Macbain: serious, articulate and smart
Tess Aristocrat: Aph, someone told me that was a form of lag
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess, well someone at one of my groups said it's wanting what you don't have but can obtain, accepting what you can't obtain, and wanting what you do have; and having the wisdom to know the difference
Rhiannon Dragoone: I like that so much that i might have an informal discussion on that
Calvino Rabeni: yes Aph the ?'s are annoying, they're part of the SL design that's not quite right yet
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, at least we have the account name when that happens, or at least I do on Phoenix
Tess Aristocrat: hehe..the last line is the AA prayer
Aphrodite Macbain: OK life is a constant question anyway
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess.yes, and it comes from a rabbai in WWII
Tess Aristocrat: ???
Aphrodite Macbain: yes?
Calvino Rabeni: Shame is like the Dark Matter of human beings in relationship
Aphrodite Macbain: nicely put
Calvino Rabeni: And like suffering, its very present and hard to talk about without getting sunk in it
Calvino Rabeni: but Brene Brown does it nicely
Tess Aristocrat: a learned behaviour
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, i'm not sure I follow; dark matter is what holds the universe together. Are you saying shame holds us together?
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I wonder if we are inherently divided, with split-off parts - as an adaptation to the pain of human reality
Calvino Rabeni: I Yes
Aphrodite Macbain: a metaphor only
Tess Aristocrat: I haven't gotten to see that presentation yet, but i saved it to favs ???
Rhiannon Dragoone: um, which presentation?
Calvino Rabeni: It's been making the rounds, getting a buzz around here
Aphrodite Macbain: which presentation- the one I mentioned?
Tess Aristocrat: the Brene Brown presentation on Ted.com
Aphrodite Macbain: one
Aphrodite Macbain: - above Rhi
Calvino Rabeni: Who has a fresh link to it?
Aphrodite Macbain: I gave the URL
Rhiannon Dragoone: ok, the link would be at Ted.com?
Tess Aristocrat: just go to ted.com
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
Tess Aristocrat: nods
Calvino Rabeni: It's called The Power of Vulnerability
Tess Aristocrat: that's a good site
Calvino Rabeni: There are several by her on TED
Aphrodite Macbain: you're faster Cal!
Calvino Rabeni: Courtesy of having a Delicious account open in another browser
Aphrodite Macbain: delicious huh?
Tess Aristocrat: mmm..I'd better get some sleep as I'll be starting a new job tomorrow
Calvino Rabeni: Sounds exciting
Tess Aristocrat: I probably won't sleep well at all..haha
Rhiannon Dragoone: Tess. congrats again on your new job!
Aphrodite Macbain: wow. good luck!
Calvino Rabeni: first day is memorable :)
Uli Helendale: Congratulations, Tess :) And goodnight.
Rhiannon Dragoone: oh, yeah
Aphrodite Macbain: what will you be doing?
Tess Aristocrat: aww thanks..just just for the tax season
Tess Aristocrat: I'll be doing taxes
--BELL--

Rhiannon Dragoone: I'll be avoiding taxes :)
Tess Aristocrat: lol
Tess Aristocrat: night all xox
Bleu Oleander: bye Tess
Aphrodite Macbain: Tess's taxes
Uli Helendale: I'm off, too, goodnight all. :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, uli
Bleu Oleander: night Uli
Calvino Rabeni: Take Care Uli, Bye :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: sweet dreams
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank god for digital tax forms
Aphrodite Macbain: Nite all
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite, Aphrodite
Rhiannon Dragoone: thanks for hosting this
Bleu Oleander: night everyone
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite Bleu!
Calvino Rabeni: Goodbye
Aphrodite Macbain: Note Bleu, Rhi, Mitzi, Cal
Aphrodite Macbain: nite
Calvino Rabeni: Sleep well
Rhiannon Dragoone: hi Luc!
Calvino Rabeni: or perchance to dream
Rhiannon Dragoone: ah, there's the rub...
Lucinda Lavender: Hi All!
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, because of the part where there's a thousand natural shocks
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Lucinda :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Well, it's what dreams will come when ou're in the endless sleep of death
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Cal, Rhi,Mitzi
Calvino Rabeni: It seems, the more people in the session, the more difficult to choose a good topic and get into it
Lucinda Lavender: I am I just came to say Hi
Rhiannon Dragoone: Cal, well, it just means to shift through all the different ppl's contributions
Lucinda Lavender: I am to full to sit at this moment!
Rhiannon Dragoone: well, hi, luc
Calvino Rabeni: Maybe there's a natural mechanism involved
Lucinda Lavender: how emabarrassing
Calvino Rabeni: what, Cinda?
Lucinda Lavender: Have just been out to eat and am very full
Calvino Rabeni: Oh , I couldn't tell !
Lucinda Lavender: really should walk around a bit or something
Rhiannon Dragoone: you don't seem uncomfrotable
Lucinda Lavender: well what topics have come up thus far?
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html
Calvino Rabeni: Ways to think about vulnerability in a way that's not negatively charged emotionally
Lucinda Lavender: ah yes have watched it before...
Calvino Rabeni: but we didn't get too deeply into it
Lucinda Lavender: that is interesting in itself
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, vulnerability is a good topic; i kind of embrace it with this avatar
Rhiannon Dragoone: it can be scary & exhilarating
Lucinda Lavender: well I feel I should listen to it once more to really remember...what was said there before
Lucinda Lavender: just imagining the most vulnerable situations...
Lucinda Lavender: today I fed my mother in law
Lucinda Lavender: with a little plastic spoon.
Lucinda Lavender: that is popping up as a potential situation of vulnerability...
Lucinda Lavender: being fed as an older person
Lucinda Lavender: Rhi scary and in a position of being seen fully
Lucinda Lavender: nothing hidden
Calvino Rabeni: Mitzi appears to be looking around
Calvino Rabeni: I'm interested in the difference
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: between the people who put their RL picture and facebook page right in their SL profile
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Mitzi doesn't know what she is doing ...!
Calvino Rabeni: and the others who say "don't even ask"
Lucinda Lavender: hmmm
Lucinda Lavender: I will come back if I can...RL calls...sorry I did not notice the bell...
Calvino Rabeni: That's ok C - actually I didn't either!
Lucinda Lavender: thanks for being all...
Calvino Rabeni: Goodnight Cinda
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite Cinda!
Mitzi Mimistrobell: nice to see you cinda
Mitzi Mimistrobell: I feel I have many good reasons for being somewhat reserved about revealing much about myself as an opening bid ...
Calvino Rabeni: that's a GREAT opening bid though
Rhiannon Dragoone: yeah, i wouldn't reveal much, don't, in my profile here or in facebook; or anywhere, really
Mitzi Mimistrobell: But, little by little, through interacting here, I have revealed much. But my profile is purposefully rather empty
Calvino Rabeni: I'm kind of in between
Calvino Rabeni: Little by little .. a collage knowledge of you emerges
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, as you feel less vulnerable
Calvino Rabeni: to make the information available only to people who pay attention and remain in relationship over time
Calvino Rabeni: this is a good strategy
Calvino Rabeni: but its based in part on humans having limited capacities
Calvino Rabeni: you have a good memory Mitzi
Calvino Rabeni: suppose there were an AI program
Calvino Rabeni: that could integrate everythng on public record about someone
Calvino Rabeni: and infer an artificial persona from it
Calvino Rabeni: almost instantly
Calvino Rabeni: such a thing was portrayed in
Calvino Rabeni: Caprica
Calvino Rabeni: a science fiction series
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Oh yes! I watched a number of episodes of that show ... very interesting actually
Mitzi Mimistrobell: So you were saying ... suppose there were such an AI program and ...?
Calvino Rabeni: It would undermine a lot of our natural strategies for managing vulnerability
Calvino Rabeni: which in part depend on not having good memory and not having fast inference
Calvino Rabeni: OK, another angle on it
Calvino Rabeni: transparency vs. secrecy
Calvino Rabeni: or confidentiality
Calvino Rabeni: The talk in the guardian group is coming around toward recognizing the uses of things like confidentiality
Calvino Rabeni: (a kind of compartmentalization)
Calvino Rabeni: and slowing down as a practice
Calvino Rabeni: both of these contradict other assumptions
--BELL--

Rhiannon Dragoone: how is that a problem, Cal; we all use pseudonyms here, so there shouldn't be a problem in confidentiality and in recording
Calvino Rabeni: that are sort of "operating assumptions" of what we do in SL, in this medium, and in technological culture in general
Calvino Rabeni: I'm still thinking Brene Brown, with a possible segue into normalcy / deviancy
Calvino Rabeni: To answer your last question ... nothing is a problem, there are just effects and consequences
Calvino Rabeni: we compartmentalize identity
Calvino Rabeni: and then create complex structures that need to be managed
Calvino Rabeni: so Rhiannon is a compartment separate from whoever you are in real life
Calvino Rabeni: you manage Rhiannon and keep her separate
Calvino Rabeni: yet the Rhi identity accumulates karma or reputation or whatever in the social sphere in which she interacts
Rhiannon Dragoone: yes, quite so
Rhiannon Dragoone: lke earlier when uli helendale was here; she was the one who i quoted to get Calvino Rabeni: the dilemma there is analogous to the same, for the other "parts" of your cluster of "I"'s
Calvino Rabeni: When I first created Calvino
banned from PI; so our karmas have consequences here in sl
Calvino Rabeni: I felt like it could be freer
Calvino Rabeni: but over time I didn't want to "pollute" the image I'd created
Calvino Rabeni: and thus became burdened or responsible for its maintenance
Calvino Rabeni: and its entropy or whatever
Calvino Rabeni: just like housekeeping
Rhiannon Dragoone: right
Rhiannon Dragoone: say listen got to log
Calvino Rabeni: TC Rhiannon of the Birds - fly well
Rhiannon Dragoone: ty
Rhiannon Dragoone: and nice meeting you Mitzi
Rhiannon Dragoone: and take care Dor
Rhiannon Dragoone: Cor
Cor Wylder: bye Rhi
Rhiannon Dragoone waves and poofs
Calvino Rabeni: Well
Mitzi Mimistrobell: bye Rhi
Calvino Rabeni: Some lag tonight !
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Recommended meditation mood music for this segment - http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=MrVozdra#p/u/17/TAiI0UpxjvA
Calvino Rabeni: There's a whole chain at that link but not a player, you need to click the next box
Calvino Rabeni: :)
Mitzi Mimistrobell: whoa ... everybody split!
Calvino Rabeni: They blew out of here like smoke
Mitzi Mimistrobell: The music *IS* nice
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Cal, I should be going .... have lots of neglected responsibilities nagging at me tonight
Calvino Rabeni: OK Mitzi - glad to see you - take care :)
Cor Wylder: .
Mitzi Mimistrobell: Bye Cal ...