2011.01.13 07:00 - A speech, compassion and the golden rule

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

My first session as guardian for three weeks and I have computer problems. Nevertheless, a group gathers.

Eden Haiku: Good morning Storm :)
Storm Nordwind: Good morning!
Eden Haiku: How are you , how is your wife, feeling better?
Storm Nordwind: Too laggy - going to need to relog. brb
Eden Haiku: Sure :)
Eden Haiku: Hey Alfred!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Eden Haiku: Hello Yakugood morning Eliza.
Alfred Kelberry: meep-meep!
Eden Haiku: Storm had to relog. He will be right back.
Alfred Kelberry: hello sweet pablings :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Eden, Yaku, Alfred, Storm, and Gaya :)
Eden Haiku: Yaku, I met you in a dream about 2 days ago...
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, i don't see the bunny
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello everyone :)
Eden Haiku: Hi Gaya!
Alfred Kelberry: oh, here she is :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey gaya

More drastic action needed before I can attend properly.

Storm Nordwind: Hmmm - still bad. Need to reboot!
Eliza Madrigal: :(
Alfred Kelberry: hi, stormy :) how are you and your wife doing?
Yakuzza Lethecus: he´s already relogging
Yakuzza Lethecus: booting
Eliza Madrigal: Did you meet RL Yaku or SL Yaku, Eden?

Eden tells us about her dream... about Yakuzza!

Eden Haiku: While Storm reboots, I will tell my dream about Yaku hehe
Alfred Kelberry: oh, interesting :)
Eden Haiku: Well, the only one I know is SL Yaku, so it was the cardboard one but feeling as real as in PaB session, quite real :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Can I lower the fountain?
Yakuzza Lethecus: sure
Eden Haiku: We were on a train or a bus, something in movement
Eden Haiku: and Yaku was shooting a video
Alfred Kelberry: bunny the builder :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eden Haiku: I was seeing the video as he was shooting it, strangely
Eden Haiku: and I asked him if he was using his camera
Eden Haiku: He said no, he was using a camcorder
Eden Haiku: And the ninja was wearing a quite large stop-watch at his wrist
Eden Haiku: which was a camcorder
Eden Haiku: That's it :)
Alfred Kelberry: ninja? yaku?
Eliza Madrigal: neat
Eden Haiku: Well, his outfit and his name reminds me of a ninja...
Yakuzza Lethecus: :)
Alfred Kelberry: yes, true :)

The US President made a speech yesterday.

Eden Haiku: Did you guys watch Obama's speech yesterday night?
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Eliza Madrigal: observer, standing in the darkness
Alfred Kelberry: funny, i forgot about the second part of yaku's name :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: together in tucson with michelle besides the husband(astronaut)
Eden Haiku: yes
Alfred Kelberry: no, eden
Eliza Madrigal: I've seen parts of it but kept having to nap...
Alfred Kelberry: what did he say?
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Arch
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey arch
Eliza Madrigal: (not because of his speech, lol, but because I didn't feel so hot, hahah)

How Eden reacted to the speech.

Eden Haiku: Let me find a link to both video and speech. It was a fantastic speech. very moving.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Arch :)
Eden Haiku: You are feeling a bit sick Eliza?
Archmage Atlantis: Hi Gaya, Yaku, Eden, Eliza, Alfred, Bleu
Eliza Madrigal: yes, there is a whole family of people with colds inside my head
Eden Haiku: Hi Arch.
Bleu Oleander: hi everyone :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: good morning bleu
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bleu :)

Alfred comments on speechwriters.

Alfred Kelberry: eden, presidential speech writers are usually quite talented :)
Eden Haiku: Nice way to put it Eliza :) A whole family of colds:)
Eliza Madrigal: I do hope that his speech inspires energy toward civility
Eden Haiku: Hi Bleu :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Bleu :)
Bleu Oleander: me too Eliza
Eden Haiku: Even if his speeches are written, he's so congruent, he devlivers much more than word Alf,
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Eden Haiku: So sorry for what happened in Arizona Bleu :(
Bleu Oleander: yes, devastated the whole state/country
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, i doubt it. remember his inauguration speech? it's all faded now in the political battles.

Arch arrives with a wry comment on the dual meaning of "civil".

Eden Haiku: Storm is still trying to relog.
Eliza Madrigal: perhaps the little girl's story will inspire inter-party dialogues to begin again...
Archmage Atlantis: I assume the conversation is about Obama's speech in Arizona last night......
Eden Haiku: I was talking about it, yes. Did you watch it Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: I was reading something this morning that said the last time things got this uncivil was in the 3 decades before the civil war
--BELL--
Eden Haiku: Did you watch it too Yaku?
Archmage Atlantis: I only saw what was rebroadcast on the news programs
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, i also only saw a rebroadcast as part of a regular newscarst

Eden provides a link to a video and transcript of the speech.

Eden Haiku: http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...t-video/69467/
Eden Haiku: Here is the video. It's worth watching. really remarkable human speech.
Alfred Kelberry: oh, there this intern guy who rushed on help after the shooting
Eliza Madrigal: watched a snip of Karen Armstron's interview on Charlie Rose at 4am ish last night, she talked about Socratic dialogue... the way that people arrived to talk to Socrates thinking they knew something and left humbled / more open, how much of that we've lost... and she talked about "the science of compassion" re the golden rule
Eliza Madrigal: thought a lot about how it applies to this situation and the horrible protesting of funerals and such lately :(
Bleu Oleander: nice, I have read her books and heard her speak .... i'll watch it
Eden Haiku: Science of compassion, what a beautiful expression Eliza.
Eliza Madrigal: great interview from what I saw and I love the way she synthesizes the essences of spirituality and agreements over traditions, shows where distortions take place (in fear)
Archmage Atlantis: Unfortunately, there is political mileage to be made out of blaming others.......I'm not sure yet that the US is ready to return to civil discourse, much less socratic learning
Bleu Oleander: http://www.ted.com/talks/karen_armst...ompassion.html
Alfred Kelberry: how do you measure compassion?
Gaya Ethaniel: brb phone
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bleu

After extended exigencies, I am back.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Storm :)
Bleu Oleander: hi Storm, how are you and Michele?
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb storm
Eden Haiku: Listening to Obama yesterday night, moved to tears, I thought his spiritual strenght was as compelling as Martin Luther King's.
Archmage Atlantis: And yes, Karen Armstrong is a true scholar of faith
Gaya Ethaniel: wb Storm & hope all's better wtih you and your wife :)
Storm Nordwind: Thanks. Recovering now. :)
Eden Haiku: Welcome back Storm :)
Archmage Atlantis: Writes very well also

A little overlap in topics... Arch muses on his personal realizations about the nature of compassion.

Archmage Atlantis: Over the years, I thought compassion and the golden rule meant treating everyone like I wanted to be treated.........now I understand more
Archmage Atlantis: It is treating others and seeing others in the way they wish to be
Archmage Atlantis: That may differ from what I wish
Archmage Atlantis: for myself
Eliza Madrigal: I thought it was interesting that she talked about how Jesus saying "love your enemies' was really about this... love being used in a sense of an agreement legally rather than sentiment...
Eliza Madrigal: a kind of loyalty
Eliza Madrigal: she says it better :)

I ask Arch a question that is quite hard to answer.

Storm Nordwind: Arch - what if you can see that, if you treat someone the way they wish to be treated, their suffering will increase?
Archmage Atlantis: That is a difficult question, Storm.....that is why I have to depend on what they tell me they want, and be willing to share my own limitations and boundaries
Eden Haiku: http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/ka...lden_rule.html
Eden Haiku: I suppose this is the video you are refering to? Will watch it later :)
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: arch, maybe you should depend on "seeing" as you first mentioned?
Alfred Kelberry: people often say one thing, but mean another :)
Archmage Atlantis: If my ability to understand indicates that their choice would be harmful to them, then I must explain, if they will listen {silence now)
Gaya Ethaniel: [back & reading ...]
Yakuzza Lethecus: seeing someone as he want´s to be seen implies a judgment that we really know how someone else wants to be seen and it can be a bit tricky
Bleu Oleander: http://www.charlierose.com/ it's not on their yet, but you can see Karen Armstrong here when it's posted
Eden Haiku: Ah thanks Bleu :)
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Bleu :) My family makes fun of me watching Charlie all the time, but I tend to like interviews :D

Arch illustrates with a deeply personal story.

Archmage Atlantis: My ex-partner attempted suicide by taking a cache of pills he had accumulated, so I understand the difficulty of the question
Bleu Oleander: I've seen some great interviews with Charlie, some not so great too
Alfred Kelberry: eliza, making fun? why?
Archmage Atlantis: Awaking with him in a near coma in bed beside me was one of those moments
Alfred Kelberry: ouch, arch
Eliza Madrigal: :( Arch
Eden Haiku: oh Arch :(
Archmage Atlantis: He had been in physical pain most of his life and had made me promise to let him go when he wanted to go
Archmage Atlantis: I took the fact that he began to awaken from the coma as a sign
Archmage Atlantis: And I called the paramedics
Gaya Ethaniel: I'm sorry to hear it Arch ... a bit lost though how this relates to the golden rules?
Eliza Madrigal: so hard... to feel that you can't affect someone's suffering...
Archmage Atlantis: Sometimes there is nothing logical to do, and one can only follow one
Archmage Atlantis: one
Archmage Atlantis: sorry, one
Archmage Atlantis: s one's own feetings
Eliza Madrigal: I've been thinking abot how that feeling relates to Pema talking about 'you can't get there from here"... a sense of we can't get 'fix' things logically or methodically all the time... even with compassionate intentions
Eliza Madrigal: so these terrible situations happen... like Arizona, like our closest loved ones, like ourselves and we can only not distance from it I guess?
Archmage Atlantis: Gaya, I was attempting to respond to Storm's question about my current understanding of the golden rule and how that might play out in rl
Gaya Ethaniel: ok

Wisdom and awareness can be different things.

Storm Nordwind: It is indeed a hard question to answer, because the more aware you are, the more knowledge you have - even beyond the edges of most people's awareness. But awareness and knowledge does not necessarily mean one has the wisdom to deal with it yet. :-/
Gaya Ethaniel: :( :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think I understand what Arch means... there is what we 'think' we would want in someone else's position, but that is still hypothetical..
Archmage Atlantis: agree Storm
Eliza Madrigal: the ability to really *hear* someone is rare

What are we not aware of. How can we manage to think about all those things of which we are aware?

Yakuzza Lethecus: it might sound harsh, but after i saw the news before work this morning i thought about those ppl whom don´t have this presense of media, how compassionate are we about those over 300 brazilians whom died yesterday
Eliza Madrigal: not harsh at all Ya
Eden Haiku: Yes Yaku?
Yakuzza Lethecus: we feel shocked and share the shock a little but one gets the attention and is it better to have an real exemplatory case to think about or just thinking about every case
--BELL--
Eden Haiku: I think I know what you mean Yaku
Yakuzza Lethecus: is it important to have ,,a shared case" ?
Storm Nordwind: Here's a bit of grim irony (from my pov). If I read the NPR headlines or the local city newspaper banners at this very moment, Brazil gets no mention at all. I have to read a British newspaper site to find it suddenly on top. So the Colorado locals may have no awareness even from which to develop compassion.
Eden Haiku: yesterday was also the anniversary of Haiti's earthquake on Jan 12 2010, thousands of victims
Gaya Ethaniel: I think it's nice to be caring wherever we can ... locally is good.
Eliza Madrigal: in this other case there is an opportunity to spotlight changeable things in our discourses... think that is why people are going over and over it... but agree that there is not really such a thing as 'fair and balanced' coverage ;-)
Eden Haiku: We can be overflooded by compassion these days: Australian victims also...
Eliza Madrigal: imagine if just some of the bazillion political talk shows were replaced with humanitarian sort of shows... human interest, etc.
Bleu Oleander: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/13/wo...=brazil&st=cse
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes ... I know many who is dealing with the flood ... we can start modest local wherever we can.
Bleu Oleander: so how are we to deal with all this?
Bleu Oleander: start local?

What some people seem to prefer listening to.

Archmage Atlantis: There is a quirk of human nature that seems to come into play - ppl seem more likely to listen to "hot" retoric and fearful stories
Eden Haiku: Being grateful for being safe and healthy and privileged is surely an important step.
Eliza Madrigal: bridge the gap? yes... definitely part of it... and i most cases really really local....
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Eden
Eliza Madrigal: those shows run out of 'news' in about ten minutes and then have 40 more to go...bla bla bla.. BUT one funny statistic I heard was that more people in America own ferrets than listen to fox news...
Eliza Madrigal: so even that we exaggerate the effects of
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Yasham :)
Yasham Resident: Hi everybody
Alfred Kelberry: thank you for the company. i have to go.
Eden Haiku: Hello Yasham
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Yasham :)
Eden Haiku: Bye Alfred!
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Alfred
Bleu Oleander: hi Yasham
Gaya Ethaniel: Bye Alfred :)
Archmage Atlantis: Yes and no Eliza.......many of those ferret owners don't even bother to vote, much less to participate actively in the process
Archmage Atlantis: Nor are they easily motivated to do so
Eliza Madrigal: yes perhaps...
Gaya Ethaniel: Well Bleu 'local' can mean different to different people :)

"Tone."

Eliza Madrigal: but just having more shows in the other direction isn't helpful either... it is the 'tone' perhaps, the collective taste?
Gaya Ethaniel: idk just turn the box off?
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Gaya Ethaniel: :P
Eliza Madrigal: well, yes I'm in a loop thinking of what others are watching and how the 'world' is affected by that
Archmage Atlantis: I think you are close to a key, Eliza, with the "tone" observation
Eliza Madrigal: me, I'm watching Charlie... as I said... hahaha
Eliza Madrigal blames rambling on her cold
Eden Haiku: ;)
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Archmage Atlantis: works for me :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi lugh
Gaya Ethaniel: I should Google that Charlie thing, haven't a clue ...

Time to go... but...

Eliza Madrigal: but I better go, after waving Hi to Lugh :)
Lugh Fehr: heyyaz :) ;)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Lugh :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Take care Eliza :)
Eden Haiku: Neither do I :)
Archmage Atlantis: Hello lugh
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks Storm, and everyone
Lugh Fehr: bye eliza
Storm Nordwind waves
Gaya Ethaniel: I should get going too, nice to see you Storm and all :)
Archmage Atlantis: bye :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Gaya. Nice to be back
Lugh Fehr: byebye
Eden Haiku: Have to leave also. Give my best to Michelle Storm. Hope she recovers well and quickly!
Storm Nordwind: Thank you Eden!
--BELL--
Archmage Atlantis: I have chores to do, so I shall also leave, ty all for being here and sharing......Later :)
Lugh Fehr: byebye
Storm Nordwind waves
Bleu Oleander: bye everyone
Storm Nordwind: Bye Bleu
Bleu Oleander: take care
Lugh Fehr: hehee byebye i came to say byebye to evryone hehee
Storm Nordwind: hehe!
Yasham Resident: I'm goving off to meditate irl ;-)
Storm Nordwind: cool
Storm Nordwind: au revoir

...a welcome question as we close!

Lugh Fehr: hey quick question who pays for pab
Lugh Fehr: ?
Storm Nordwind: Volunteer donations
Storm Nordwind: You can read about it on our wiki
Storm Nordwind: wiki.playasbeing.org
Lugh Fehr: wher can ii donnATE?
Storm Nordwind: On the wiki
Storm Nordwind: there is a PayPal button!
Lugh Fehr: oh oki tnx
Lugh Fehr: :)
Storm Nordwind: You are most welcome. And thank you!
Lugh Fehr: tank you!