The Guardian for this meeting was Maxine Walden. The comments are by Maxine Walden

Maxine Walden: hi, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi maxine! :)
Eliza Madrigal: slow arrivers today....
Maxine Walden: :) maybe a slow day for some...
Eliza Madrigal: happy to make it, as its been tough on sundays :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pema :)
Maxine Walden: hi, Pema!
Pema Pera: hi Eliza, Maxine!
Maxine Walden: We were just saying that maybe it is a slow day, slow Sunday for some...
Eliza Madrigal: Hiya Ya :)
Maxine Walden: I see Yaku's balloon....
Pema Pera: hi Yaku!
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey everyone
Maxine Walden: Hi, Yaku
Eliza Madrigal: balloon?
Maxine Walden: 'name tag'
Eliza Madrigal: Oh :)
Eliza Madrigal: cute
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zen :)
Maxine Walden: hi, Zen
Pema Pera: hi Zen and Bruce!
Zen Arado: Hi all
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce and Blub
Maxine Walden: hi, Bruce
Maxine Walden: seems like the Time discussion folks are here as well...
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Whew! Rought trip! Hello everyone!
Bruce Mowbray: rough*
Pema Pera: I wondered about your circling, Bruce :)
Maxine Walden: rough, Bruce? glad you are here...
Eliza Madrigal: yes Zen was walking into the air when he arrived as well
Zen Arado: true - walking on air
Maxine Walden: another exploration in being?
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: you talked us into it Maxine...
Maxine Walden: :))
Maxine Walden: hmm, might think there was a theme here somewhere....! :))
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Pema Pera: :-)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey bruce, zen
Zen Arado: Hi Yaku
Maxine Walden: but maybe we could go ahead with our sharings...as it seems to have been a kind of running thread in our recent discussions...
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Yaku.
Maxine Walden: as Pema has said 'What does it mean for you, concretely, to try to briefly drop what you have (in terms of identifications, beliefs, whatever you normally rely on) and to be naked of any reference points, for at least a short while? How does that feel? Could that tell you anything about what you/we really are?
Maxine Walden: Maybe we could continue that contemplation here as well.

An puzzling thing then happened, instead of my speaking up as has been the pattern when the goc begins the musings, I turn to the person on my left, Eliza and ask if she would begin.  In retrospect I think I sent my slight anxiety rippling along to others....this took me awhile to realize which I mention later in the conversation.

Maxine Walden: Eliza, would you like to begin ?
Eliza Madrigal: erk
Maxine Walden: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :) Okay
Zen Arado: you sat in the worng place Eliza :)
Eliza Madrigal: well... it feels something like that...
Eliza Madrigal: I thought maxine would share and then I would warm up... and then begin to form something to share... but I was surprised :)
Eliza Madrigal: which is a bit of panic, then a smile
Eliza Madrigal: I need to be put on the spot sometimes
Maxine Walden: (sorry, shall we begin elsewhere...? the surprise....maybe I also am not feeling quite so prepared, but maybe tht is something to consider...)
Eliza Madrigal: so I don't have prep time
Eliza Madrigal: No, am praising your surprise Maxine :))
Maxine Walden: without prep time...
Eliza Madrigal: yes (done and pass to Yaku)
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh pass over to bruce when put on thespot :)
Bruce Mowbray: omg.
Bruce Mowbray: OK. . .
Eliza Madrigal: (you had time yaku =P~)
Eliza Madrigal: heheh(Sorry)
Bruce Mowbray waits - if Yaku wants to go ahead. . .
Eliza Madrigal apologizes to Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: np.
Pema Pera: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: shall I put in my 2 L's worth now?
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes
Maxine Walden: please
Bruce Mowbray: ok.

Bruce then speaks and shares an openness in marked contrast to the previous rippling anxiety I had passed along.

Bruce Mowbray: Well, this was a week of major growth (or at least of major importance/change) with regard to the drops.
Bruce Mowbray: I cannot say that I have "no reference points. . . "
Bruce Mowbray: but I discovered something (or perhaps it grew tired of waiting for me to discover it. . .)
Pema Pera: :-)
Bruce Mowbray: anyway, I feel that I had my first profound encounter with Bodhicitti this week.
Bruce Mowbray: and that realization as sort of TAKEN OVER my meditations and my drops.
Bruce Mowbray: There is this "place" -- although it's not really a place, of course -- within my being. . .
Bruce Mowbray: that seems to have opened up. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and all I want to do now is to explore it more and more. . .
Bruce Mowbray: and it is already having a profound effect on my thoughts about Being - and about compassion, of course.
Bruce Mowbray: so, with that. . . (Enough! Enough!) I will pass to . . .
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: to Zen.
Zen Arado: ty Bruce
Zen Arado: Hi Eos
Bruce Mowbray: yw.
Zen Arado: I don't know what it is like to drop fixed pints of reference
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Zen, Pem, Max, El, Yak, Bruce
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Maxine Walden: :) hi, Eos

Zen also seems open in his sharing:

Zen Arado: I know the theory and understand a lot of the ideas I think
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi eos
Zen Arado: but I seem to be too mind driven
Zen Arado: I don't really feel anything
Zen Arado: so I am going to swirch from reading and thinking so much
Zen Arado: and just try to FEEL some of this
Zen Arado: thaT Is the plan anyway but I have said this many times before :)
Zen Arado: Pema?
Pema Pera: Thank you Zen! :-) The way Bruce put it, "it grew tired of waiting for me to discover it", really hit home.

Pema brings up persistence, something he mentions a couple of times during this session.

Pema Pera: Often we grope in the dark, have no idea how or where to look or even what to look for, really, but as long as we doggedly continue, sooner or later something will light up, something profound.
Pema Pera: I have found that in my scientific research, I have found that when I've been trying to understand sometimes surprising antics of good friends (or of myself!), and I've also found that when exploring the nature of reality through meditation/contemplation.
Pema Pera: The key point seems to be continuing engagement, more than any particular aspect of technique or background knowledge. And yes, this holds also for a search to go beyond reference points.
Pema Pera: (done)

The circle comes back to me and I share some of my intervening thoughts:

Maxine Walden: OK, musing about my 'passing the buck to Eliza' ...and that 'not enough prep time' rippling until Bruce spoke: maybe these are two different aspects of 'presence': a light anxiety to what 'is' and the more eager, curious, less anxious openness. One thing I am aware of in these discussions is that we each may resonate with aspects of a 'wider' reality...
Maxine Walden: so maybe I will stop here for now and ask Eos is he wishes to share his current discoveries in the drops, etc
Maxine Walden: Eos, do you wish to share right now?

Eos who came in after we had begun asks an obvious question:

Eos Amaterasu: What was the original question?
Maxine Walden: We are continuing the 'theme' of sharing what our current , perhaps'now' experiences are re Being, re PaB explorations or our own practices...
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: as Pema has said 'What does it mean for you, concretely, to try to briefly drop what you have (in terms of identifications, beliefs, whatever you normally rely on) and to be naked of any reference points, for at least a short while? How does that feel? Could that tell you anything about what you/we really are?
Eos Amaterasu: (saved by the bell - for 90 secs :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :) (Hi Steve)
Maxine Walden: This is the seed of our continuing exploration . haha
Maxine Walden: hi, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: waves
Eos Amaterasu: Hi Steve
Yakuzza Lethecus: hey steve
Zen Arado: Hi Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Eos Amaterasu: Well, becoming more aware of my story line
Eos Amaterasu: shifts that awaring beyond it, both before and after it, in a way
Eos Amaterasu: there's a kind of wondrous and lost feeling to that
Eos Amaterasu: open and unknowing
Eos Amaterasu: ronin of awaring
Eos Amaterasu: each moment is a challenge that way
Eos Amaterasu: if I remember :-)
Eos Amaterasu: or let the forgetting light up
Eos Amaterasu: especially here in SL there's a heightened experience of that
Eos Amaterasu: because who-I-am-ing is so much more obviously a play
Eos Amaterasu: sometimes that shines out in RL life
Eos Amaterasu: Play as Being Self exercise currently being played, with lots of perhaps dubious alts around
Eos Amaterasu: seems to be our Play of that
Eos Amaterasu: within some kind of bigger humour
Eos Amaterasu: (done)
Bruce Mowbray: thank you, Eos. . . very valuable material there.

I had IM'd Steve about the topic and he then spoke:

stevenaia Michinaga: seems I arrived at the right place at the right time
Maxine Walden: Steve?
Bruce Mowbray: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: The question of dropping self fits very comfortably with me, I have jsut been thinking about it more lately, thank you Pema
Pema Pera: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: It creates a place of less self judgement for me that frees me more and more
stevenaia Michinaga: seems that the more you ahve, the more you ahve to drop, I am hoping to lessen the load I ahve to drop more and more so the difference between to two is only slight
Maxine Walden: :)
Bruce Mowbray: :))))
Pema Pera: :-)
stevenaia Michinaga: ..done

I open the floor, having temporarily lost the fact that Eliza and Yaku had passed in the first round, and likely needed space for sharing now.  Pema also asks Bruce for more on his original thoughts.

Maxine Walden: Are we ready to open the conversation up, then, open the floor?
Bruce Mowbray: thank you, steve.
Pema Pera: I'd *love* to hear more from Bruce !!
Eliza Madrigal: :)Steve
Bruce Mowbray: gosh.
Bruce Mowbray blulshes....
Pema Pera: from what must have been a profound week
Pema Pera: hehehe, sorry Bruce
Zen Arado: Yaku and Eliuza?
Bruce Mowbray: The thing for me right now - is balancing my awareness that everything "spiritual" can become a fetish, or an obsession. . .
Bruce Mowbray: or a point of reference so intense that everything else is excluded...
Bruce Mowbray: it is so powerful.
Bruce Mowbray: and the very LAST thing I want to do is to exclude ANYTHING.
Maxine Walden: (thanks Zen, we will go back to Yaku and Eliza)
Bruce Mowbray: . . . ok.
Bruce Mowbray wil listen now.
--BELL--
Maxine Walden: please don't interrrupt your thoughts, Bruce....just wanted to respond to Zen
Bruce Mowbray: yes.
stevenaia Michinaga: brb
Maxine Walden: When you wish, Eliza, Yaku, please share what you might wish to,if you wish to...
Eliza Madrigal: thanks... Ya?

Yaku's thoughts:

Yakuzza Lethecus: /hehe, well the aspect of loosing ourselves from our own role and the dayly referene thoughts like my timer tomorrow at 4:30 which i will hit 3-4 times. The routine to go to work and also to join sl when i come back with a routine and even routined thoughts what i hope to change
Yakuzza Lethecus: the element that everything goes over into a routine
Yakuzza Lethecus: but even changing the room or place from where i log on changes the thoughts slightly
Yakuzza Lethecus: i am very habitual in anything and a preservation of freshness seems crucial sometimes
Yakuzza Lethecus: over

Eliza's musings"

Eliza Madrigal: :) interesting to see how influenced we can be...
Eliza Madrigal: re Yaku's noticing differences when/where he signs on and such
Pema Pera: Hi Vajra, long time no see !!
Vajra Raymaker: Greetings, Pema, and all :)
Eliza Madrigal: Seems to be similar to Zen sharing iin another place letting loosen his grip on teachings/books, etc and also Bruce's noticing of spiritual attachments that obscure
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Vajra :)
Eliza Madrigal: Interesting also to see when something seems to come up strongly for several at once
Eliza Madrigal: (done) and really enjoying listening
Vajra Raymaker: aw, I imagine you must be at the end of today's discussion
Maxine Walden: I am IMing Vajra

The notion that each moment seems a new beginning then is brought forth

Bruce Mowbray thinks: Something tells me that we might be at the 'beginning' of thew discussion.
Vajra Raymaker: tks :)
Bruce Mowbray: the*
Pema Pera: :)
Maxine Walden: Yes, and maybe each moment is 'at the beginning'...
Pema Pera: this is the first day of the rest of your life . . . .
Bruce Mowbray: ---- no 'maybe' about it.
Eos Amaterasu: "all play the game of existence till the end / of the beginning" - Beatles
Eliza Madrigal grins

I also bring in the notion of my earlier anxiety as something which needs recognition:

Maxine Walden: I was thinking about my slight anxiety, which collapsed the space just a bit....and maybe it is useful to think of that as allowing the 'anxiety' in...as part of Being...part of the ever-present beginning
Maxine Walden: for me a combination of 'anxiety about the new...' and curiousity, openness to it...the balance fluctuating all the time
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm....
Eliza Madrigal: difficult sometimes to see that anxiety as a friend... stay with it a while
Maxine Walden: agree, Eliza, anxiety can bring chagrin...
Eliza Madrigal: there is a saying "All guests bring joy, some in the arrival and some in the departure" :)
Maxine Walden: :))
Maxine Walden: hi, Lugh
Pema Pera: staying with it gently . . . for long enough . . . till the new grows tired of waiting for us to discover it . . . .
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Lugh :)
Pema Pera: hi Lugh!
Maxine Walden: yes, Pema
Lugh Fehr: hellow people
Zen Arado: Hi Lugh
Maxine Walden: will IM Lugh
Bruce Mowbray: . . . or waiting for it to discover us.
Yakuzza Lethecus: hi lugh,zon
Eliza Madrigal waves to Zon as well
Pema Pera: yes, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: and simply surrender - - - and let what happens happen.
Zen Arado: Hi Zon
Bruce Mowbray: Hi, Zon.

And Pema again brings up persistence:

Pema Pera: but staying with it, while surrendering, not giving up
Pema Pera: hi Zon!
Bruce Mowbray: yes, Pema.
Lugh Fehr: sorry for the interuption :S :)
Eliza Madrigal: I have to be going but so glad to make this session today! Thank you Maxine, everyone
Bruce Mowbray: Let us never "give up" but let us "open up" and allow in ever-larger ways.
Pema Pera: to remain engaged with what you don't know what you are engaging with -- that challenge -- Eos refered to that too, I think
Pema Pera: by ELiza!
Zen Arado: bye Eliza
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eliza
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Eliza.
Eos Amaterasu: Sry, must go,thnx, byhe
Bruce Mowbray: Thank you so much, Eos.
Maxine Walden: Persistence has been a subtheme today...
Pema Pera: bye Eos!
Zen Arado: bye Eos
Lugh Fehr: bye eos
Maxine Walden: bye and thanks so, Eos
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye eos, night everyone
Maxine Walden: bye Yaku
Zon Kwan: hm to drop where i identfy myself...scary..i loose myself
Zen Arado: bye all
Maxine Walden: bye Zen
Pema Pera: bye Zen!
Bruce Mowbray: es, on. It is scary.
Bruce Mowbray: yes*
Pema Pera: oh, but you can start with just a few seconds, Zon :-)
Bruce Mowbray: and so we rush to find reference points that will support us, or so we think.
Vajra Raymaker: Pema, about the real challenge, engaging with what you don't know. Is that related to the idea that we often engage only to have control, or to resist control?
Pema Pera: yes, we generally have an aim
Pema Pera: and we can't find more beyond that aim
Pema Pera: at best we reach our aim
Pema Pera: letting go of all hope means also that you can find something way beyond what you could have hoped for :-)
Bruce Mowbray could not agree more.
Zon Kwan: and our aim is to get something to make us feel more i ?
Vajra Raymaker: I find it scary to be, without aims (if I'm also alert, not being escapist etc.) to tell the truth.
Lugh Fehr: this makes me remember of a buddhist thing which say enlightenment is relizing that their is notting to hold on to
Maxine Walden: I had better go as well. Lovely discussion. Thanks everyone.
Pema Pera: we can take small steps, Vajra, just lessen the aims a bit
Maxine Walden: bye for now
Pema Pera: bye Maxine!
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks for everything, Maxine.
Pema Pera: I'll have to go too, it's been a long hour!
Lugh Fehr: byebye
Lugh Fehr: max
Vajra Raymaker: take care, Pema
Zon Kwan: i aim to maintain me ?
Bruce Mowbray: Oh my, so many thanks, Pema.
Lugh Fehr: byepema
Pema Pera: thank you all for a wonderful conversation!
Pema Pera: much to think further about
Zon Kwan: darn i missed it
Zon Kwan: gtg, bye all
Bruce Mowbray thinks: Amazing.
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Bruce Mowbray: Good night, Zon.
Lugh Fehr: byebye zon
Bruce Mowbray: . . . and now we are four.
Bruce Mowbray: (five, counting Blub).
Vajra Raymaker: bbl
stevenaia Michinaga: I enjoy listening to your comments Bruce... if only because hardly understand them :)
Bruce Mowbray: Me neither!
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Lugh Fehr: hehee
stevenaia Michinaga: was not ment to be critical
stevenaia Michinaga: except to myslef
Bruce Mowbray: no -- totally honest on both sides.
Bruce Mowbray: I do NOT understand what is happening with me.
Bruce Mowbray: Only that something profound is changing my view of the world.
Bruce Mowbray: and that's worth looking at.
Bruce Mowbray: that is ALL that I know.
Bruce Mowbray: but I can fall back on many wiser folks than myself for help with this.
Bruce Mowbray: That, precisely, is why I come here.
Vajra Raymaker: tks all; have to go
Lugh Fehr: byebye
Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, Vajra -- see you again I hope.

Steve and Bruce begin some dialog

stevenaia Michinaga: hehe, then I won;t ask for added explanation, it will appear in time
Bruce Mowbray: it's all right to ask for explanations -- that might help me to understand it better. . .
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I find thinkng about concept and talking about that defines them better for me
Bruce Mowbray: but that's up to you, of course.
Bruce Mowbray: I really have nothing to "preach" about, though.
Lugh Fehr: so wat was it if you dont mind maby sumerizing :D
stevenaia Michinaga: I feel it is my finger pushing parts of the internal "me" around
Lugh Fehr: im curiouse now hehe
Bruce Mowbray: @ Lugh....
--BELL--
stevenaia Michinaga: same as alst night :igh
Bruce Mowbray: I had stated earlier that I felt this was a week of profound change for me. . .
stevenaia Michinaga: Last night Lugh
Bruce Mowbray: Much earlier in this session, I said:
Bruce Mowbray: There is this "place" -- although it's not really a place, of course -- within my being. . . [13:13] Bruce: that seems to have opened up. . . [13:14] Bruce: and all I want to do now is to explore it more and more. . . [13:14] Bruce: and it is already having a profound effect on my thoughts about Being - and about compassion, of course.
Bruce Mowbray: and I think that is what steve was referring to -- maybe not, though.
Lugh Fehr: coool great to here that mate
stevenaia Michinaga: well I was refering to the question that began with your exploration
Bruce Mowbray listens carefull to steve.
stevenaia Michinaga: but... sounds comforting, Bruce
Bruce Mowbray: Don't know if comforting....
Bruce Mowbray: . . . sort of like a "Home" to come back to after all the wandering homeless and lonely.
stevenaia Michinaga: was thinking it began with Pema question of dropping
Bruce Mowbray: . . . and my second-guessing is having a field day.
stevenaia Michinaga: was I in error
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, our whole session here was about "dropping..." and that was my response.
Bruce Mowbray: np.
Bruce Mowbray: You wew NOT in error.
Bruce Mowbray: were*
Lugh Fehr: alan watts got this really cool discution on dropping out called the meaningless life its very nice
stevenaia Michinaga: just didn't wnat to confuse Lugh.. or me
Bruce Mowbray: ;-) ---- To be alive is to be confused!
Bruce Mowbray: LOVE Alan Watts, btw.
stevenaia Michinaga: or I prefer, ... To type is to misspell
Bruce Mowbray: Please read his THE SUPREME IDENTITY. . .
Bruce Mowbray: superb book.
Bruce Mowbray: "To think is to miss the point."
Bruce Mowbray: but -- here we are!
Lugh Fehr: alan watts was the begining of my sunrise after a very dull crazy period
Bruce Mowbray: Oh yes! I DO understand that, Lugh!
Bruce Mowbray: Alan helped interpret so much for the West -- in intelligible terms.
Lugh Fehr: i thinck he just might be the guy i would give the price for being the wisest guy i ever heard speaking (not live unfortunatly)
stevenaia Michinaga: looking him up, thanks
Bruce Mowbray: I was living in the Bay Area (San Francisco) when he was also living there -- but I never saw him in person.
Bruce Mowbray: Have read many of his books, though.
Lugh Fehr: i never read any of his books i just heard his lectures i don;t read anymoor hehe it was a big hobbie of mine at some point dough
Bruce Mowbray: I think my favorite is THE WATERCOURSE WAY (about Taoism).
Bruce Mowbray: If you're into reading at all, I would highly recommend his books.
Bruce Mowbray: They were life-changers for me.
Bruce Mowbray: Meanwhile, I will check out his lectures.
Lugh Fehr: hehehe :)
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Bruce Mowbray: The "thing" that seems to grab me is the common denominators in our spiritual practice.
Bruce Mowbray: Does not matter which tradition you come from -- does not matter AT ALL.
Lugh Fehr: we are becomeing one people one culture
Lugh Fehr: whit the internet and all the comunicastion
--BELL--
Bruce Mowbray: We have access that we've never had before....
Lugh Fehr: and for some reson wester culture and motiff seem to pack the most punch to spread
Lugh Fehr: >
Bruce Mowbray: well, perhaps, UNTIL you've heard Alan Watts. . . then everything changes.
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be off, I have a very important committe meeting I have to get ready for.
stevenaia Michinaga: seems they put me on local Synagogue Scotch Tasteing Committee... promises to be a spritual event
Bruce Mowbray: THANK you, Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: grins
Bruce Mowbray: Would LOVE to be there!
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Buce a nd Lugh
Lugh Fehr: yebye
Lugh Fehr: hehehe enjoy be
Bruce Mowbray: Was there more that you wished to talk about, Lugh?
Bruce Mowbray: because if so, I will stay.
Bruce Mowbray: np.
Lugh Fehr: nah notting poops to mind
Bruce Mowbray: ha ha!
Bruce Mowbray: LOVES that "POOS to mnind"!
Bruce Mowbray: POOPS.
Lugh Fehr: any thing from your side ? hehe
Bruce Mowbray: Not really, only soooooooo grateful to have PaB.
Lugh Fehr: well poops or poos depends on the angle you see from
Bruce Mowbray: Yeah, a whole lot of my mind trips seem to be "poops."
Lugh Fehr: yes i love this place its the most place where people have the right to own their constiosness i ever been to
Bruce Mowbray: same for me, Lugh.
Bruce Mowbray: if it's OK, then, I shall be off to find dinner. . . and maybe even some Scoth!
Bruce Mowbray: Scoth!
Bruce Mowbray: Scotch!
Bruce Mowbray: oh dear.
Lugh Fehr: hehee you and me both hehe enjoy mate
Bruce Mowbray: Enjoy!
Lugh Fehr: hehee
Bruce Mowbray dies from laughing....