2011.01.20 13:00 - weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

The Guardian for this meeting was Lia Rikugun. The comments are by Lia Rikugun.

Fox Monacular: Hi Aphrodite
--BELL--
Fox Monacular: Hi Lia
Lia Rikugun: hello
Lia Rikugun: how are you?
Fox Monacular: good, thanks:) yourself?
Lia Rikugun: oh yes thank you, was just playing a board game with friends :)
Fox Monacular: wonderful, i love board games! my 2.5 year old already knows what to do with dice:)
Lia Rikugun: hehe great
Fox Monacular: what game were you playing?
Lia Rikugun: hm it is called sagaland
Lia Rikugun: you have to memorize images and collect cards
Lia Rikugun: we were laughing to loud and disturbing everybody in the cafe ;)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Fox, Lia
Lia Rikugun: hi aphrodite
Fox Monacular: Hi Aphrodite
Lia Rikugun: so what should be the topic of today?
Fox Monacular: sounds cool, Lia!
Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza!
Eliza Madrigal: Hi!
Eliza Madrigal: :D
Aphrodite Macbain: Hello Eliza - dont get wet!
Lia Rikugun: hi eliza
Fox Monacular: you look radical today:)
Lia Rikugun: what a nice dress :)
Aphrodite Macbain: wow. new hair
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks! I'm stretching a bit maybe
Aphrodite Macbain: nothing better for the joints
Eliza Madrigal: yes indeed
Eliza Madrigal: I don't want to interrupt :)
Lia Rikugun: what would you like to do today?

experimenting with the appearance in SL

Aphrodite Macbain: I keep experimenting but never seem to like where I am
Lia Rikugun: what do you mean aphrodite?
Aphrodite Macbain: always fussing, changing, experiemtning - with my image. I go from dressed up to dressed down.
Lia Rikugun: ah
Lia Rikugun: always changing thats good
Eliza Madrigal: :) need a middle way
Aphrodite Macbain: I try and keep my hair and face the same
Aphrodite Macbain: so I'm recognizble
Lia Rikugun: hello wol
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol :)
Wol Euler: hello everyone
Aphrodite Macbain: Hiya wol
Aphrodite Macbain: gtsy
Wol Euler: likewise
Eliza Madrigal: three redheads today ...
Eliza Madrigal: mind if I lower the fountain lia?
Lia Rikugun: what does this mean eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: when I'm on this viewer it distracts me...
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, like: /9 low lowers the jet
Eliza Madrigal: It will still mist
Aphrodite Macbain: It blocks my view too
Wol Euler smiles.
Lia Rikugun: ok sure
Eliza Madrigal: thanks :)
Lia Rikugun: i dont know how to do that
Aphrodite Macbain: How do you adjust the fountain?
Eliza Madrigal: now you do
Fox Monacular: Hi Wol!
Wol Euler: hi fox
Eliza Madrigal: :)) you : /9 low
Wol Euler: type "/9 help"
Lia Rikugun: hello eldir
Eliza Madrigal: HI Cal and eldir
Wol Euler: hello cal
Lia Rikugun: nice to meet you
eldir Resident: Hello, everybody
Fox Monacular: hi eldir
Wol Euler: hello eldir, have you been here before?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Cal, Hi Eldir
Lia Rikugun: eldir have you been here before
Lia Rikugun: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hello everyone
Eliza Madrigal: when you brought up always fidgeting with something I thought you were discussing RL Aph :)
Calvino Rabeni: I've seen eldir here many times
Eliza Madrigal: yes
Wol Euler: ok )
eldir Resident: oh yes I have been here, thanks
Wol Euler: just checking :)
Aphrodite Macbain: :-) perhaps I do that in RL too!
Lia Rikugun: ok great
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lia Rikugun: in 3 minutes we have a break
Lia Rikugun: should we think of an exploration?
Aphrodite Macbain: fussing about my appearance, never settled

the exploration for the break: "appreciating our OWN appearance"

Aphrodite Macbain: how about appreciating our OWN appearance
Eliza Madrigal smiles, sure!
Wol Euler: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: (or at least accepting i)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
eldir Resident: SL or RL appearance?
Wol Euler: which ever seems appropriate :)
Aphrodite Macbain: well--one may reflect he other
Calvino Rabeni: appearance as in - the unique way one shows up on one's world
Calvino Rabeni: in the moment
Aphrodite Macbain: yes- that' nicely put Cal
Eliza Madrigal nods
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: and?

reactions to "appreciating our OWN appearance"

Calvino Rabeni: that felt powerful
Aphrodite Macbain: I notice that I am more impressed by what avis say rather than how they look, but seem unable to apply this awareness to yself (Aph)
Eliza Madrigal: interesting
Lia Rikugun: in SL or in RL Aphrodite?
Aphrodite Macbain: what was powerful Cal, the 90 second break?
Aphrodite Macbain: In SL
Calvino Rabeni: yes
Lia Rikugun: in sl somehow appearances dont matter to me
Aphrodite Macbain: Because of the ease in whch we can change our appearanc
Eliza Madrigal: just before meeting people from SL in RL, as I will soon, I stress about bad hair, toe nail bothering me, etc... bit silly :)
Wol Euler: very human though :)
Calvino Rabeni: the experience of beauty and grace ... from the inside, not as an image laid onto an object
Aphrodite Macbain: It is tempting to play with it.
Eliza Madrigal: :) I think 'Oh no, how am I going to make up on the treadmill the last 6 months/years...?"
eldir Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: that sounds like RL Eliza
Calvino Rabeni: Fat is Beautiful :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Agatha! GTSY
Wol Euler: btw, just for the record, I've met Eliza in RL and she is truly lovely, inside and out :)
Eliza Madrigal: yes well the thing is I don't usually stress in RL that much, just a key moments
Wol Euler: hello eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Howdy
Wol Euler: hello *agatha*
Lia Rikugun: hello agatha
Wol Euler: sorry :)
Wol Euler: utterly fixated on the comment I was writing ;)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Agatha
Eliza Madrigal: (((Wol)))
eldir Resident: Hello Agatha
Aphrodite Macbain: we're talkig about our preoccupation with appearance
Subaru Arun: Hello :)#
Lia Rikugun: hello subaru, nice to meet you
Lia Rikugun: i will just IM you
Eliza Madrigal: its just normal but nice to say things out loud and see how silly they are
Aphrodite Macbain: Hi Subaru
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Subaru :)
Wol Euler: hello subaru
Aphrodite Macbain grins
eldir Resident: Hello Subaru
Aphrodite Macbain: Like wat, for example Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: oh any number of things.. sometimes a surprise
Wol Euler nods.

Are we preoccupied with appearance then?

Agatha Macbeth: Are we preoccupied with appearance then?
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmmm All I can see of m is my hair and bracelet!
Aphrodite Macbain: I fear I might be...
Wol Euler: try rebaking? ctrl-alt-R
Agatha Macbeth: So you're really concerned with it then!
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Wol Euler: very disturbing when it's missing
Agatha Macbeth: 'Nobody knows where the rest of me went...'
Eliza Madrigal: right, like when we show up as clouds... some can't communicate like that... feel they cant sit here in the circle if they don't 'show up'
Aphrodite Macbain giggles sheepishly
Aphrodite Macbain: No body knows but Jesus

2 definitions of appearance...

Calvino Rabeni: Appearance - which meaning of it - (1) the external image seen from a detached position, (2) the Act or Process of Appearing
Eliza Madrigal: interesting... appearance implying detachment
Wol Euler: I suppose appearance in this sense is about "letting yourself be seen"
Lia Rikugun: i always thought it is 1)
Wol Euler: your presentation to the world
eldir Resident: so #2 would include the rez cloud
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I feel I have to be visible to be heard and appreciated
Fox Monacular: i like the process of appearing... an unfolding
Agatha Macbeth: See amd be seen
Eliza Madrigal: lovely, yes... rezzing the world
Aphrodite Macbain: Can anyone see the real me...? -)
Aphrodite Macbain: Do I have a body?
Wol Euler: both physical (including these pixels) and metaphorically seen, our acts and our virtues and failings
Subaru Arun: Are I see you perfectly
Agatha Macbeth: Me too :)
eldir Resident: In SL I can slip in here almost unseen. In RL I take over a room :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm what doe it men when others can see ou but you can't?
Calvino Rabeni: Appearance, in the sense of the PaB idea - "Appreciating the appearance of as appearance of Being"
Wol Euler: right!
Calvino Rabeni: (or however those acronyms work :)
Wol Euler: RL-we are Being's avatars
Aphrodite Macbain: I can't see you Eldean
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes cal
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lia Rikugun: less than 2 minutes til the next break

the next break with the same or similar exploration

Eliza Madrigal: seems it is about 'not' going somewhere else... appreciating what (ever) is right here... in all its complexity (faults/ideals)
Eliza Madrigal: "this very land"
Lia Rikugun: or appreciating the presence of my apperance as presentation by being
Aphrodite Macbain: So I should appreciate my hair I guess
Eliza Madrigal: sure... as long as appreciate doesn't mean squash out room for play and change and creativity :D
Aphrodite Macbain: and find tht suffcient
--BELL--
Lia Rikugun: yes
Aphrodite Macbain: I'm concerned that I can' see Eldir.
Lia Rikugun: i can see her
Eliza Madrigal noticed how the 'friend of Being' tag Fox is wearing sounds like "friend of the being fox monacular" or.. I'm my own friend... something like that :D
eldir Resident: ?? I can see me
Agatha Macbeth: Maybe she's concerned she can't see you either
Wol Euler: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Come out come out wherever you are!
Calvino Rabeni: Appearance as appearing in the moment .... it doesn't care about the prior patterns in which it will so soon be evaluated against
Agatha Macbeth: Let's all go to Pab and not see each other
Eliza Madrigal sees Eldir... sometimes a slight change of angle will 'appear' someone
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Zon :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Hya Zon
Lia Rikugun: hi zon
Agatha Macbeth: Hello Zon
Zon Kwan: hey all
eldir Resident: Hello Zon
Wol Euler: hello zon
Subaru Arun: Hello Zon :)

what happens and how do I feel if I cannot see my avatar in SL?

Aphrodite Macbain: Now I can see you Eldir - and I can finally see myself. Why is that such a relief?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
eldir Resident: I am so glad
Wol Euler smiles.
Agatha Macbeth: The lag monster is banished
Wol Euler: ... for now.
Wol Euler: he'll be back
Subaru Arun: But it went up two levels first
Aphrodite Macbain: It shouldn' be important
Eliza Madrigal: we may have to befriend him
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
Wol Euler: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Nice to feel truly present
Wol Euler: why shouldn't it, Aphro?
Wol Euler: can you unpack that "shouldn't" a little?
Aphrodite Macbain: It's a bit like a sort of reference point
Aphrodite Macbain: Knowing what is there before you begin
eldir Resident: are you not really you unless you can see your presence?
eldir Resident: or can you not talk to me until I appear
Aphrodite Macbain: all the ducks in a row
Eliza Madrigal: feel of the pen on paper, wet brush on canvas... something about traction? touchstone...
Subaru Arun: Aha, Fox is dreaming :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Yes eliza, the sense of sight is so important in establishing what's real
Fox Monacular: (back now and reading... sorry was away:)
Aphrodite Macbain: I can operate withut seeng myself, but uncomfortably
Eliza Madrigal smiles @ dreaming Fox... ballet jellyfish
Fox Monacular: hehe
Fox Monacular: yes
eldir Resident: I have worn glasses all my life, I think that makes me not so trusting in blurring objects
Aphrodite Macbain: Does any one expriwence what I'm describing?
Wol Euler grins.
Subaru Arun: Just don't walk into the wall...
Wol Euler: that one is not in SL if not visible? yes.
Aphrodite Macbain: whew
Wol Euler: I feel awkward and uncomfortable when unrezzed, it occupies my attention until fixed
Aphrodite Macbain: I thought I was very vain
Wol Euler: perhaps we both are! :)
Agatha Macbeth: No ore than the rest of us
Wol Euler: heheh
Aphrodite Macbain: Thanks ol
Agatha Macbeth: m
Aphrodite Macbain: Wol
Agatha Macbeth: more
eldir Resident: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: It's all mind games
eldir Resident: yes
Wol Euler: sure, but isn't all of life everywhere?
Wol Euler: how silly is it to get up at X o'clock eventhough you're still tired, just because the clock says so?
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: No, because the boss says so :p
Wol Euler: true, but the clock is his immediate agent
Wol Euler: :P
Agatha Macbeth nods

abstractions in SL and how we still feel they are "real"

Aphrodite Macbain: Yes - butespecially SL. We believe in the solidity of abstraction
Aphrodite Macbain: even the time is abtract
eldir Resident: boss=dog. Has to go out
Wol Euler: it's interesting that people travel in SL to see sculptures
Wol Euler: SL art sculpture, I mean
Aphrodite Macbain: dog= boss?
Agatha Macbeth: Why sculptures particularly?
Aphrodite Macbain: yes. Reproductions of rerodutions. we have to thow awa the idea of authentic?
Wol Euler: because they are an illustratoin of the solidity of this abstraction :)
Agatha Macbeth: Ah
Wol Euler: if I show you a photo of a SL sculpture, you see a flat image
Aphrodite Macbain: sculpture becuse they're 3D
Agatha Macbeth: Right, with you
Wol Euler: if you go to anohter sim to look at it yourself, what your typist is *seeing* is a flat image too
--BELL--
Aphrodite Macbain: so it's an bstaction of reality
Wol Euler: but we do want to go and see for ourselves :)
Agatha Macbeth: Technically speaking is it strictly 3D tho?
Aphrodite Macbain: It stands in for reality. It is the appearance of being but not the true being.
Wol Euler: I was just thinking about that
Eliza Madrigal: the feel of walking through a museum here is next best to being in one... I find I keep a similar pace, stopping a while, etc. Surely better than scrolling through pics on a reg browser site....
Wol Euler: right, eliza
Agatha Macbeth: Cos you're seeing it on a flat screen
Wol Euler: and doing it in SL is better too
Eliza Madrigal: so in a sense it is what we bring... the body
Wol Euler: we experience our virtual bodies moving in a virtual volume
Aphrodite Macbain: I find what is lacking is scale and texture
Agatha Macbeth: And toilets
Wol Euler: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: hahah
Lia Rikugun: :)
Wol Euler: rather like in literature. Romantic heroines seldom go shopping for toothpaste, or wipe the crud off their shoes after a walk in the woods
Aphrodite Macbain: all our perceptions are limted
Calvino Rabeni: Interesting to note - during the sit - that abstractions are concrete experiences also, so they take the place of the thing they "represent" and either opaque it or make a double image
Agatha Macbeth: Indeed
Eliza Madrigal: hahaha
Eliza Madrigal: "Miss Dashwood stops to blow her nose..."
Wol Euler nods to Cal
Fox Monacular: have to go now, RL is becoming more real:) good to see you all!
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm interesting Cal
Lia Rikugun: byebye fox
Agatha Macbeth: Bye Foxy
Aphrodite Macbain: and fumbles her knitting
Wol Euler: :) bye fox, enjoy your alternative reality
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Fox!! Good to see you
Subaru Arun: Goodbye Fox
Calvino Rabeni: It turns out, this topic blends nicely with the topic in the Ways of Knowing group this week - Beauty
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! Fox Take care
Agatha Macbeth: Aha
Eliza Madrigal whistles having not done with her homework but loves the topic
Calvino Rabeni has to leave, however
Aphrodite Macbain: Have I misse that essionCal?
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: It follows this one Aph
Calvino Rabeni: Kira cafe, eleven minutes :)
Aphrodite Macbain: ession
Aphrodite Macbain: May I come?
Eliza Madrigal: Of course!
Calvino Rabeni: Thanks everyone, see you
Aphrodite Macbain: For abrief time?
Lia Rikugun: bye cal
Calvino Rabeni: yes Aphro :)
Wol Euler: bye cal, see you later
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Cal
Agatha Macbeth: Oh, bye Cal

WoK is coming up and a bonescan...

Eliza Madrigal: the workshop is open... every week at this time
Aphrodite Macbain: Hmm realized I cant
Subaru Arun: That was a sudden exit
Wol Euler: :(
Eliza Madrigal: regular attendees have to do homework but not perpetual visitors, hehe
Aphrodite Macbain: Have to get bonescan at the hospital
Eliza Madrigal: Oh!
Wol Euler: O.O
Eliza Madrigal: that's a good reason to miss if I ever heard one
eldir Resident: how does one stay a perpetual visitor, forever
Agatha Macbeth: Hopefully, they'll find some ;P
Aphrodite Macbain: Just checking to see how my body is doin
Eliza Madrigal: I will leave the sesion early to get my eyebrows waxed... not a good excuse at all
Eliza Madrigal: hehehe
Wol Euler: by not doing homework?
Wol Euler: heheheh
eldir Resident: :)
Lia Rikugun: :)
Aphrodite Macbain: Doesn't that hurt Eliza?
Agatha Macbeth: A bone of contention...
Eliza Madrigal: eldir :)) Perpetual visitor and regular attendee are pretty much same... one without homework
Eliza Madrigal: YES it does...
Aphrodite Macbain: Ouch. How often do you do that to yurself?
Eliza Madrigal: every few months
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: then basic plucking... I know, I know...
Eliza Madrigal: vain vain vain
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Agatha Macbeth: You have my every sympathy Liz
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you
Aphrodite Macbain imagines Eliza with enormous bushy eyebrows
Wol Euler laughs.
Eliza Madrigal: what is entailed in a bone scan Aph
Eliza Madrigal: hahah Aph
Aphrodite Macbain: I get injected with stuff that can be seen by an Xray
Agatha Macbeth: You need some here
Aphrodite Macbain: wait 2 hrs, and return t get scanned
Eliza Madrigal: ah, okay... wondered if that was necessary
Aphrodite Macbain: That way I can see if my cancer has spread, whether I hve arthritis etc
Agatha Macbeth nods
Wol Euler: O.O
Wol Euler: wow, Aph, I had no idea.
Aphrodite Macbain: My back ahs bee bothering me so it's a good wayto see what's up with i
Agatha Macbeth: Always better safe than sorry
Aphrodite Macbain: It also seems to effect my typing...
Aphrodite Macbain: :-)
eldir Resident: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Not surprising really
Wol Euler: distracting you, perhaps
Eliza Madrigal: Aph, how did I miss that too... that you have to check up on these things....
Lia Rikugun: on your back only?
Aphrodite Macbain giggles. That's my excuse
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Lia Rikugun: i hope it is going to be ok

possible things to do with a digital image of your skeleton

Aphrodite Macbain: My whole body will get scanned - they're going to give me a CD of the image. so I can see my skeleton!
Lia Rikugun: hey nice
Aphrodite Macbain: Cool eh?
Lia Rikugun: and you can make a poster
Eliza Madrigal: wow!
Eliza Madrigal: hahah
Agatha Macbeth: Dem bones dem bones...
Aphrodite Macbain: HHaaaLia
Lia Rikugun: and skare people n the night
Wol Euler: wow
Aphrodite Macbain: Use it for hallowee
Aphrodite Macbain: n
Lia Rikugun: huuuuuuhuuuuuuuu
Eliza Madrigal giggles....
Eliza Madrigal: you could use it for the alt project
Agatha Macbeth ponders 'Hallowee'
Aphrodite Macbain: Thank you for your support. (and your humour) weee
Eliza Madrigal: (((Aph)))))
Agatha Macbeth: Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Agatha Macbeth:
Lia Rikugun: weee is what ghosts do in the us?
Wol Euler: and small kids
Agatha Macbeth: Everywhere
Eliza Madrigal: all the way home
Aphrodite Macbain giggles and gets up to go
Lia Rikugun: not in germany :)
Wol Euler: right, piglets too
Lia Rikugun: bye aphrodite god luck
--BELL--
Agatha Macbeth: Bet your back's gone altogether now?
eldir Resident: I will go too, thank you all
Wol Euler: bye aph, best wishes for a good result
Eliza Madrigal: time for wok
Wol Euler: bye eldir, nice meeting you
Agatha Macbeth: Take care Aphro
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye
Aphrodite Macbain: Bye! everyone
Zon Kwan: bye all
Wol Euler: bye everyone else, I'm wokking
Eliza Madrigal: yes wish you nice people to help today
eldir Resident: \take care aph
Agatha Macbeth: Wok well Wol
Lia Rikugun: nbye
Subaru Arun: Bye All
Eliza Madrigal: thanks Lia, bye for now...
Lia Rikugun: i think i will leave too, it is late for me
Eliza Madrigal: don't nkow why I was flying
Eliza Madrigal: SEE YOU SOON LIA!
Lia Rikugun: yeay!!!
Lia Rikugun: i hope it is ok if i come with my normal eyebrows
Lia Rikugun: :)
Eliza Madrigal: hahahah
Wol Euler: :)
Agatha Macbeth: Well, that session came to a grinding halt
Eliza Madrigal: =P~
Wol Euler: come with us then :)
Agatha Macbeth: Auf wiedersehen Lia
Lia Rikugun: good night
Eliza Madrigal lures Ag
Lia Rikugun: auf wiedersehen!