2011.01.23 01:00 - Compassion

Wol Euler was guardian for this session.

Wol Euler: good morning, cal
Calvino Rabeni: Good morning
Calvino Rabeni: WOl
Calvino Rabeni: I wonder if red could ever become the new black
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: it's pretty close to that in SL
Wol Euler: mind you, "they" said that about orange too
Calvino Rabeni: ..I was thinking something like that
Wol Euler: hello eliza!
Wol Euler: you're up very early, or late
Calvino Rabeni: Good morning
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Wol! Hi Cal! :) Good Morning!
Eliza Madrigal: a dramatic Wol this morning :)
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: left over from last night, there was a bottom-of-the-sea theme to a dance party
Eliza Madrigal: oh, cute!
Eliza Madrigal: LOVE it
Wol Euler: it's a mermaid dress
Eliza Madrigal: mermaid with feathery fins
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: ohhh nice AO
Wol Euler: unfortunately just one animation, not a full AO
Wol Euler: if this were from Grendel, it would have an AO :) and would have cost a twentieth of what it did :))
Eliza Madrigal: oh, but that must feel fun
Wol Euler: good morning kit
Kit Ciaco: Hi! sorry I'm late....
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Kit
Kit Ciaco: hey
Kit Ciaco: I hope I ain't sstanding on anyone's head
Kit Ciaco: I'm still rzzing in
Qt Core: Hi all
Wol Euler: kit is maker of the flutes that people have been talking about lately
Kit Ciaco: oh???
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Boxy's
Kit Ciaco: Well, I have upgraded it already!
Kit Ciaco: much nicer
Eliza Madrigal: nice, one of my daughters plays flute... though not much lately, miss that
Kit Ciaco: prettier, with a nice ao
Eliza Madrigal: Hello Dorje
Kit Ciaco: anyway - thanks!
Kit Ciaco: I play about 2 to 3 hours a day usually
Wol Euler: hello dorje
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, wonderful
Kit Ciaco: I thoughts since I spend so much time in SL may as well have a flute HERE!
Eliza Madrigal: indeed
Qt Core: i mandatory played flute at school (many years ago) made many people cry
Wol Euler: have you been here before, Dorje?
Kit Ciaco: LOL!
Kit Ciaco: mine are native american style
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Qt! :))
Wol Euler: oh, hello qt, didn't see you arrive
Kit Ciaco: alot easier to play, I expect
Kit Ciaco: I could never play the silver flutes
Kit Ciaco: can't do my lips right
Kit Ciaco: but I do make people cry when I play sometimes!
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Wol Euler: a nice compliment
Dorje Indigo: yes, been here before, I am just listening... talk to much all day in 1st life...
Wol Euler: ok, ty, I ask because of the recording
Eliza Madrigal smiles, understandable :))
Qt Core: i made them cry even with a few closed doors between us... damned the italian schools having compulsory musical ed.!
Kit Ciaco: LOL!
Kit Ciaco: heck, I even scare my goats sometimes!
Wol Euler laughs.
Eliza Madrigal: with a flute? hm... goats are less resilient than their reputations then :)
Qt Core: the teacher had me switching to the triangle, at least i have some rythm sense
Kit Ciaco: well, I'm very hard on them
Kit Ciaco: I say, you want food, you gotta listen to me play!
Kit Ciaco: harsh....
Wol Euler: heheh
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Eliza Madrigal: task master
Kit Ciaco: yes
Kit Ciaco: I only LOOK innocent
Qt Core: thet's the first rule Kit ;-)
Kit Ciaco: hehehehehehe
Kit Ciaco: look adorable?
Eliza Madrigal: btw, Happy Eliza Rezz Day :)
Wol Euler: oh!
Eliza Madrigal: 2 years in SL... almost 2 in PaB
Wol Euler: congratulations, dear eliza!
Qt Core: !
Kit Ciaco: wow!!!!!!
Eliza Madrigal: Thank you :)
Qt Core: happy rez day Eliza!
Qt Core: brb
Eliza Madrigal: what a long, strange trip its been....
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: actually it seemed to me that you had a path in SL from nearly the beginning of your time here
Wol Euler: (reading your piece for Kiremimi)
Wol Euler: I have the impression that your trip has been perhaps long but not strange at all :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)) yes it does feel that way... felt that a lot of things came together in a flash
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: which is not to say that it isn't strange as well... or that there aren't changes along the way, finding balances
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: but I did find PaB and a few nice meditation communities very fast!
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Wol Euler: when you arrived at PaB, I took you to be a very senior meditatrix, quite experienced and having achieved a high degree of ... meditativity
Wol Euler: you radiated calm and goodness
Eliza Madrigal: isn't that funny... not at all
Eliza Madrigal: oh, thank you
Wol Euler: my pleasure :)
Eliza Madrigal: I did feel 'home' very quickly here....
Eliza Madrigal: and now moreso with such friendships and various layers having developed
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: ... land of potentals meeting potentials
Wol Euler: knotting the threads of the tapestry
Wol Euler: or some such metaphor
Eliza Madrigal: mmm, hah... yes
Kit Ciaco: nice met
Kit Ciaco: tapestry, weaving of compassion
Eliza Madrigal: there's a question... I keep thinking that I know what compassion is and then, nope :)
Kit Ciaco: I think it's a genius of the heart
Wol Euler ponders
Dorje Indigo: bye everybody, tiime to go to the spa.... sauna and steambath... yeah
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: bye dorje, take care
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Dorje :) enjoy
Eliza Madrigal: genius in this sense would be a natural ability ...
Kit Ciaco: well, I'm not sure
Eliza Madrigal: hm, listens
Kit Ciaco: I think it can be cultivated
Kit Ciaco: sort of like how we cultivate our learning intellectually
Kit Ciaco: I am by nature not compassionate
Kit Ciaco: so part of my path is surrounding myself with compassionate people to learn from them the ways of compassion
Wol Euler: probably a bit of both ;) there might be a predisposition to it which is then strengthened and extended
Kit Ciaco: Do you think most people have some level of predisposition for compassion?
Wol Euler: yes
Eliza Madrigal: hm, I think we must
Eliza Madrigal: it is there to be cultivated
Eliza Madrigal: after all
Wol Euler: yes :)
Qt Core: yes, i the full range from 0 to 100 %
Kit Ciaco: so we can nurture it perhaps - extend it?
Wol Euler: certainly
Eliza Madrigal: yes, or simply uncover what's there
Wol Euler: not to say that everyone will get to 100%
Eliza Madrigal: the idea of it changes for me I think... what I think compassion is at various points...
Qt Core: that's for saints and buddhas
Eliza Madrigal: not merely kindness or courtesy but surely that is an expression
Kit Ciaco: And it seems to me that compassion is practiced differently
Kit Ciaco: per styles
Eliza Madrigal nods
Kit Ciaco: yes, Eliza
Kit Ciaco: so someone who appears gruff might actually be pragmatically exrtremely compassionate
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, yes!
Wol Euler: mmhmm, capable of true generosity of spirit
Kit Ciaco: conversely, sometimes folks who appear kind are, well, not
Wol Euler: but usually concealing that,perhaps not knowing it themselves
Kit Ciaco: agreed, wol
Eliza Madrigal: Trungpa said something like "compassion can mean pushing someone to the wall"
Qt Core: and someone that seems compassionate is just avoiding conflict, being "lazy" (my situation most f the tomes)
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: "tough love"
Kit Ciaco: Absolutely, Eliza!!!
Wol Euler nods to QT
Eliza Madrigal: :) Qt... I relate... comfort can look like compassion too
Eliza Madrigal: not upsetting things
Kit Ciaco: Yes, sometimes we must care enough to confront
Kit Ciaco: which can be rather sloppy and awkward....
Eliza Madrigal: yes, so there is an exposure there, a risk...
Kit Ciaco: oh, absolutely!
Eliza Madrigal: which must be part of the definition
Qt Core: when that happen to me im sad, and i don't know if it is for me not being so nice or for the others not knowing me
Wol Euler nods.
Kit Ciaco: it's much easier to smile and nod
--BELL--
Eliza Madrigal: hm... wondering what we're cultivating... can't seem to be compassion itself, as that seems unimprovable :)
Eliza Madrigal: but our 'action'? or our choicelessness about it?
Kit Ciaco: compassion unimproveable?
Eliza Madrigal: well its a question
Kit Ciaco: hehehehe
Kit Ciaco: so was mine.....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal grins
Kit Ciaco: I think the concept of compassion is unimproveable
Kit Ciaco: but the practice of it can be improved, ie, cultivated/nurtured
Wol Euler: learning to express it
Kit Ciaco: indeed!
Wol Euler: learning to see chances to do so
Kit Ciaco: yes!
Eliza Madrigal: 3 cheers to worthy endeavors!
Qt Core: like in chosing to be compassionate, not being compassionate ? forcing it as you see it as a good thing?
Wol Euler smiles.
Wol Euler: not forcing, that's not quite the right expression IMHO
Eliza Madrigal: well sometimes one may have to force a rock off the opening of the well
Qt Core: like dieting even if you don't like it
Kit Ciaco: fascinating
Kit Ciaco: sometimes my compassion emerges while I'm kicking and screaming
Wol Euler: hmmm, yes, perhaps forcing yourself to display that tough love aspect
Wol Euler: when you'd rather not
Kit Ciaco: exactly
Qt Core: then it become an habits and you may even start to do in unconsciously getting addicted to it as it make you feel good too ?
Wol Euler: thinking about this, perhaps the core of compassion is perceiving the essential inner all-one-Being-ness of us
Kit Ciaco: I agree, Core
Eliza Madrigal smiles @ addicted to compassion
Wol Euler: yes, qt, exactly
Calvino Rabeni: Actually Wol
Eliza Madrigal: agree Wol, too... knowing ...
Calvino Rabeni: I think the core of compassion is learning to love diversity
Eliza Madrigal listens
Qt Core: wonder why i keep thinking about it like dieting or going to the gym :-)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Calvino Rabeni: the easy compassion says - if they are like me I will accept them
Kit Ciaco: perhaps because of the practice aspect?
Kit Ciaco: I don't think that's compassion at all, Cal
Eliza Madrigal: probably... the 'effort' aspect
Wol Euler: cal, that wraps around to what I meant: they ARE all like me, even those who aren't
Eliza Madrigal: Nods!
Eliza Madrigal: and all me, too
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Qt Core: and even if they aren't is that enough top trat them bad ?
Qt Core: treat
Wol Euler: just like physical features are more or less strongly expressed in families
Calvino Rabeni: but still wol, isn't that an unnecessary condition?
Qt Core: time to go, bye all
Wol Euler: some of us strengthen the aspect X, whereas others are more Y, but we all have both inclinations
Eliza Madrigal: Bye for now Qt, good to see you, had been a while!
Wol Euler: bye qt, enjoy your sunday
Qt Core: :-) ciao!
Calvino Rabeni: Its a problem e.g. analogous to interfaith dialogue - is it necessary to posit that all religions have the "same thing" at the core?
Wol Euler ponders.
Calvino Rabeni: Or can differences be appreciated too, as differences
Kit Ciaco: a celebration of differences
Calvino Rabeni: without needing to reference them to some ideal of sameness
Calvino Rabeni: yes Kit
Kit Ciaco: For me, the more I'm able to celebrate what is different among us the more I come to appreciate what is alike
Eliza Madrigal: /menods
Wol Euler: mmhmmmmm
Calvino Rabeni: That's one possible drawback of unifying schemes, like the perennial philosophy
Eliza Madrigal: there is a somewhat deeper teaching... nature of diversity is nondual
Eliza Madrigal: but basically it seems if one is aware of an underlying connection...
Eliza Madrigal: then they aren't threatened by the appearance of otherwise at all?
Eliza Madrigal: so can 'stay'
Kit Ciaco: you make a good point, Eliza
Wol Euler nods.
Eliza Madrigal: then the well is open :)
Kit Ciaco: :)
Wol Euler: :)
Eliza Madrigal: an endlessly rich topic
Kit Ciaco: yes
--BELL--
Rhiannon Dragoone: Hi Eliza, Kit, Wol, Cal
Eliza Madrigal: what I hear in your point a little Cal goes back to the sense of unpredictability... not labeling compassion ie "this is what it looks like"
Wol Euler: hello rhi
Eliza Madrigal: HI Rhiannon
Wol Euler: yes, I expressed myself badly, I meant that discovering this connectedness is likely to bring somebody to compassion, not that it was a necessary precondition
Rhiannon Dragoone: What else could bring us to compassion, if not awareness of our connecteness?
Calvino Rabeni: I see that too Eliza
Wol Euler: rhi, I'll give you a notedcard of the conversation to date
Eliza Madrigal: ah that's what I heard you say Wol... but seems far more likely for someone to have access to showing compassion if the other is no 'other'
Rhiannon Dragoone: Thanks, Wol
Rhiannon Dragoone: Otherness is the end of compassion, it seems to me
Wol Euler: agreed
Wol Euler: (just answered my own question by asking it :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: What question did you ask, Wol?
Wol Euler: whether it was possible to feel compassion for somebody of whom you believe at a gut level that "they are other, not like us"?
Wol Euler: and the answer is yes, that is Cal's not-easy compassion
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
Wol Euler: but that is different, it's almost an intellectual/emotional *exercise*
Wol Euler: IMHO YMMV
Rhiannon Dragoone: ok, it's happening again; it didn't at Tricipian's, but for some reason, here I can only see some of the chat
Eliza Madrigal: is that a kind of playing as if, too then....
Kit Ciaco: I think so
Wol Euler nods.
Kit Ciaco: If we walk a path long enough does it not become our own?
Wol Euler: absolutely
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Calvino Rabeni: nice to notice that
Eliza Madrigal: appreciate that texture
Wol Euler: learn to be enlightened by pretending to be enlightened and doing "as if"
Kit Ciaco: practice
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Calvino Rabeni: well wol maybe the enlightenment comes from the discrepancies too ...
Kit Ciaco: yes, and the paradoxes!
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Eliza Madrigal: and the rich ground of confusion, hehe
Calvino Rabeni: no one can fit a template predefined "as if"
Kit Ciaco: the interwoven nature - some go this way, some go that - it binds us together into a whole
Calvino Rabeni: eventually that will be laid aside
Rhiannon Dragoone: hmmm, no one else is seeing my chat either from the responses.
Wol Euler: read your IMs rhi :)
Calvino Rabeni: but, on the other hand it makes some pragmatic sense
Calvino Rabeni: to refine it along the way?
Rhiannon Dragoone: But from context, i'm getting most of the convo.
Eliza Madrigal nods @ Cal
Eliza Madrigal: wow, why am I up? :) I'd better try to sleep... will meet Gaya in just a few hours!
Wol Euler: :)
Wol Euler: are you already there?
Eliza Madrigal: This is a marvelous conversation to pre-start the day with
Eliza Madrigal: Yes... arrived late afternoon...
Eliza Madrigal: after a delayed plane as usual : )
--BELL--
Kit Ciaco: and lost luggage???
Wol Euler: ah :)
Rhiannon Dragoone: Good nite, Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: had dinner with Pema... a sleepy jetlagged Pema, but always a pleasure
Eliza Madrigal: no lost luggage... just miami flights somehow
Kit Ciaco: And with that, I must go as well. Thanks for your company and time!
Wol Euler: ah, the retreat!
Wol Euler: bye kit, enjoy the day
Kit Ciaco: thanks!!!!
Eliza Madrigal: Night Kit :)
Wol Euler: eliza, I'm so envious ... well actually not :)
Wol Euler: I'd love to be there but I feel no envy, no dis-entitlement or whatever
Eliza Madrigal smiles
Wol Euler: I'm delighted for you that you are there
Calvino Rabeni slips out in the early hours of the morning
Calvino Rabeni: Good day everyone
Wol Euler: and I now understand why gaya wasn't in WoW this weekend :)
Wol Euler: goodnight cal, take care
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: Night Cal
Eliza Madrigal: I don't feel retreaty yet... I like to arrive early to settle in but
Eliza Madrigal: still feel like I'm on my way here for some reason
Wol Euler nods.
Wol Euler: is corvi there?
Eliza Madrigal: no :(
Eliza Madrigal: she had work things come up
Wol Euler: O.O
Wol Euler: what a pity
Eliza Madrigal: and sharon too, couldn't make it
Eliza Madrigal: yes :((
Wol Euler: :(
Rhiannon Dragoone: nite Cal
Eliza Madrigal: steven will be here tomorrow night, and Eos tomorrow afternoon... and Lia
Eliza Madrigal: also tomorrow night I think
Wol Euler: a slow start, then
Eliza Madrigal: am looking forward to meeting her as well... two new face to faces :)
Wol Euler: perhaps that's why you are not yet retreaty?
Eliza Madrigal: maybe :)
Wol Euler: knowing that it will be spread out
Eliza Madrigal: yes that may be it... though the setting is nice
Eliza Madrigal: maybe it is just the urban-ness that takes settling into...
Eliza Madrigal: every place is so different, such a different feel
Eliza Madrigal: and seems to change one's energy
Wol Euler nods.
Rhiannon Dragoone: Urban ness can be a real challenge to adjust or re adjust to
Wol Euler: meditation on bourbon street
Eliza Madrigal: yes! one block away!
Wol Euler grins.
Wol Euler: I hope you have a wonderful time
Eliza Madrigal: okay... better try to sleep again...
Eliza Madrigal: thank you, and thanks for a lovely session
Wol Euler gives you a hug. Goodnight eliza, happy retreating
Eliza Madrigal hugs back, Bye and Thanks :)