2011.01.14 07:00 - Disorienting Thought Experiments

The guardian for this session was Eliza Madrigal, who found posting it afterward and reading the rhythm anew, quite enjoyable! Thanks to Darren, Bleu, Yakuzza, Corvi & Pema. Intrigued by the title? Skip to the end if you like but much more fun to wander. :)

Darren Islar: something wrong with the bell?

Eliza Madrigal: the bell at the beginning doesn't ring to end

Yakuzza Lethecus: i think it never goes on time directly

Darren Islar: k
Eliza Madrigal: it started as a way so as not to interrupt greetings :)
Darren Islar: ah.... got it
Eliza Madrigal: but since greetings are continuous... hm...
Darren Islar: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: hihi, i often wonder at which amount of ppl i should stop :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: but that´s one of the most fortunate´s problems to have i guess :)
Eliza Madrigal: Eden suggested IM greetings/goodbyes sometimes... seems a good idea
Darren Islar: :)
Darren Islar: .
Pema Pera: oh, I sort of like the idea of greetings :-)
Bleu Oleander: I think greetings add to the sessions
Bleu Oleander: bonds
Eliza Madrigal: mostly, yes... sometimes there are moments to keep going
Eliza Madrigal: to maybe finish into a discussion a slight bit more :)
Darren Islar: yes, I agree with you there Eliza

Eliza Madrigal: never get away from moment-to-moment decisions it seems
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: discretion
Eliza Madrigal: indeed...
Eliza Madrigal: feeling the space and boundaries

Darren Islar: sometimes somebody tries to slip out or in, and still gets about ten hi's or bye's
Darren Islar: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: laughs
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Eliza Madrigal: hehe Darren, true... we are lavish...
Eliza Madrigal: it is our best way to smile and hug
Pema Pera: :-)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: here's a point about hello's and goodbyes....
Corvuscorva Nightfire: they are information
Corvuscorva Nightfire: about our states and our connection

Darren Islar: true Eliza
Darren Islar: so we do it anyway :)

Bleu Oleander: E.M. Forster "only connect"

Darren Islar: well going to say goodbye to you all :)
Eliza Madrigal thinking.... information about our states... our environments?
Bleu Oleander: bye Darren
Corvuscorva Nightfire waves
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Darren :)
Pema Pera: bye Darren!
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye darren
Darren Islar: bye everyone :)
Eliza Madrigal: SMILE AND HUG
Eliza Madrigal: heheh
Darren Islar: :)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: our states...like are we present and engaged, or inward and thoughtful?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: for instance
Eliza Madrigal: can you hear that in greetings?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the speed of it, or the style, or whether it happens or not
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and how that differs frome the speaker's usual

Eliza Madrigal: so our familiarity... you can see in time
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Pema Pera: very interesting point, Corvi!
Eliza Madrigal: familiar blocks built in different ways

Pema Pera: well, time for me to get some sleep; past midnight here
Pema Pera: bye everybody!
Bleu Oleander: night Pema ty
Eliza Madrigal: Nite Pema
Corvuscorva Nightfire: sleep well, Pema.
Pema Pera: thanks again!

--BELL--

Yakuzza Lethecus: sometimes i wonder about the value of ,,how are you", in some cases it seems mandatory and means nothing to ask but if it´s missed it´s an open indicator for a conflict
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

Eliza Madrigal: I may be working on a variation of the same puzzle bleu brought up this morning...
Bleu Oleander: ?
Eliza Madrigal: which has to do with trust and not feeling compelled to use words
Eliza Madrigal: to hold back and see what else comes up

Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Bleu Oleander: yes

Bleu Oleander: how much our words are conditioned by our culture and the way we were brought up

Eliza Madrigal: and whether that can really happen in a virtual setting when our acknowledging one another does depend on saying explicitly "I see/hear you"
Eliza Madrigal: true, bleu
Bleu Oleander: yes, so much is missed without the visual cues
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the cues are still, there, in a way, I'd posit
Bleu Oleander: yes to some degree
Eliza Madrigal: yes? in the way you describe before?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods

Eliza Madrigal: in many sense courtesy and care is about space whether in a virtual or so-called real world

Bleu Oleander: body language is stylized though so no nuances
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think that if you are engaged enough in sl...you use the same places in your brain to process words that you would other social cues
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and process things like speed of typing
Eliza Madrigal: filling in...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: as body language
Eliza Madrigal: hm
Bleu Oleander: I think body language is more fundamental than words though
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles, nods...yes...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: it is.
Eliza Madrigal: when we begin to see how much we fill in, as with those reading paragraphs that are full of misspellings but easily readable... it should point to something
Bleu Oleander: an amazing amount of communication if you think about it

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I've heard yakuzzas real life voice, and seen you Eliza
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I've never met Bleu
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I can hear all three of you speak as I read your words
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I am probably quite wrong in how I interpret some of the data
Eliza Madrigal: hm... yes... though the words appear all at once in a line
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I would be with body language, too!
Bleu Oleander: wrong can happen face to face too
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods.

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes I feel trapped by former patterns, ie, if I usually type fast and jump in, but then don't, I become concerned that someone will take it personally....
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods
Eliza Madrigal: not know that I'm listening or that what they are conveying is meaningful to me even if it is
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Bruce :D
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb bruce
Bleu Oleander: hey Bruce wb
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at Bruce and his fish.
Bruce Mowbray: ty!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think that fear might lead to me nodding and smiling alot in either life.
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, yes that's what I mean...
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods

Yakuzza Lethecus: but talking about voice -> pointing to 12PM :)
Bleu Oleander: social expectations?
Eliza Madrigal: or our ideas of social expectations
Bleu Oleander: ah yes, Yaku, voice today?
Eliza Madrigal: and genuine care

Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, the session will be happening tonight as last week, last week bertram and aph were there
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: I'll try to make today
Yakuzza Lethecus: i still work on a few open subject suggestions

Eliza Madrigal: I guess resilience is important in both contexts... ability to shed one context for another and to let people off yesterday's hooks (we used to talk about benefit of the doubt, hasn't come up in a while)

Eliza Madrigal: a topic box Yaku?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: mmmmmm
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, that wouldn´t be too bad either :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)

Yakuzza Lethecus: last week i had:
Yakuzza Lethecus: Interesting subjects could be on the subjects of: - what makes a pab session a good one ? - contemplative terminologie, what the heck is being, contemplation or even meditation - meditation: what´s ur goal and what would you like to gain, ,,awareness", a moment of comfortable disconnection of our unhealtyly perceived thoughts or something totally different ?

Bruce Mowbray: so voice session here at 12:00 slt.
Eliza Madrigal: hey, cool
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: what the heck is being? hahahha
Bleu Oleander: nice Yaku
Bleu Oleander: or my fav, "the self"
Eliza Madrigal grins
Eliza Madrigal: I like the distinctions that come up from those questions...
Eliza Madrigal: putting one another 'on the spot' in an open way :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: last week we ended up talking about the medium of voice itsefl, so it´s just to bring some suggestions but it´s still open
Yakuzza Lethecus: i can´t hope for bleu or eden to bring in the subjects :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: well at least not always :)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Bleu Oleander: hehe

Eliza Madrigal: let eden bring the singing :)
Eliza Madrigal: I would have liked to have heard your poem reading Ya!

--BELL--
 

Eliza Madrigal: your question bleu, about fresh words...
Bleu Oleander: yes
Eliza Madrigal: it made me think of the phenomenon of "I've got it!" and then you share it and it deflates...
Eliza Madrigal: or the person looks blank
Eliza Madrigal: and one is left with a "hm... what happened there?"
Bleu Oleander: we pack a lot into our words that may not come across
Eliza Madrigal nods
Corvuscorva Nightfire grins

     I'm struck too by how different perceptions are, as in this instance, as I heard Bleu articulating clearly during the time session!

Bleu Oleander: like my words this morning ..... couldn't get them out
Bleu Oleander: knew what I meant but couldn't convey
 

   Here Yakuzza recited a wonderful poem, with a relaxedness and pacing that was truly exceptional... 
 

Eliza Madrigal: ooooooooooo Yaku, that was beautiful
Eliza Madrigal: thank you
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods...that was. I feel that way about singing every time, Bleu
Corvuscorva Nightfire: like I KNOW the tune
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but I can't make it come out
Corvuscorva Nightfire: or drawing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: the picture in my head is NOT what makes paper
Eliza Madrigal: hmm yes, definitely drawing...
Bleu Oleander: yes drawing a good analogy for me

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Is that poem written anywhere, Yak?

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes we simply set stages for others or even for another time
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, it´s by heidegger

Bleu Oleander: singing also, I sing great in my head, not so when it comes out :)

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I'd love to read it..I was just hearing your voice, enjoying it, and not making meaning of it
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://thefloatinglibrary.com/2008/0...-by-heidegger/

Eliza Madrigal: :) Bleu
Yakuzza Lethecus: the 2nd poem
Bleu Oleander: oh I didn't hear
Corvuscorva Nightfire: mpds
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods to Blue
Bleu Oleander: are we in voice?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Yak is
Yakuzza Lethecus: i was for a sec
Eliza Madrigal: Ya was for a moment

Bleu Oleander: do you need voice enabled to hear?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: yeah
Bleu Oleander: don't see any white dots
Eliza Madrigal: you don't have one for me bleu
Yakuzza Lethecus: i will log out for a while, i will be on line the whole evening later
Yakuzza Lethecus: bfn
Eliza Madrigal: bye Ya :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Yak
Corvuscorva Nightfire: thank you for the poem.

Eliza Madrigal: on the other topic...
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, Yaku.
Eliza Madrigal: (forgive longish paste)
Bruce Mowbray: I need to run into RL town now.

Eliza Madrigal: my earth shattering kaboom thought yesterday, was that if the world was existent it wouldn't take effort to experience it.. we wouldn't be worn down by the accumulation of the day... but to another seemed like a "yeah sure of course' heheh...
life is funny, off beat. for me it was a reason wu wei is 'natural'

Bruce Mowbray: Thanks, everyone.
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bruce :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye Bruce!
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods, thoughtfully.
Bleu Oleander: takes a lot of effort in some ways other ways not
Eliza Madrigal: I've been puzzling over that in some sense, for a while... lightly puzzling... especially since in contemplative teachings asking 'why' a lot isn't encouraged :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: processing that is taking some effort
Eliza Madrigal: but what sort of effort? are there different kinds?
Bleu Oleander: (still don't have voice or see others as having voice, maybe need to re-log, but will worry about that later)
Eliza Madrigal: yes when you sign on later you may have it fixed!

Corvuscorva Nightfire: well that's what I was processing
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what it means to experience the world as a "being"
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and what it means to experience the world as a theoretically corporal being

Eliza Madrigal: interesting, yes!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: It IS earth shattering to consider the difference, to me.

Bleu Oleander: what does it mean to make the distinction between being and thoretically corporal being?

Corvuscorva Nightfire: in fact, it has the same disorienting effect that Pema's ideas have for me.
Eliza Madrigal: disorienting effect is a perfect way of describing that....

--BELL--

Corvuscorva Nightfire giggles as she considers the effect of singing, drawing or saying what she means by making that distinction.
Bleu Oleander: exactly
Corvuscorva Nightfire: When I say Pema's ideas, I really meant..Pema's thought experiments
Bleu Oleander: better ways in some ways
Eliza Madrigal nods

Eliza Madrigal: sometimes it is simple though, like see this, but simply don't use your eyes

Corvuscorva Nightfire snickers "simple, but not easy!"

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Eliza Madrigal: it is letting the birds out of cages to some extent...
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.

Eliza Madrigal: (suddenly the SL birds seemed louder)
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: haha!
Bleu Oleander: :)
Bleu Oleander: hearing lots of FL birds
Eliza Madrigal: the FL birds seem quiet here today... maybe a little cold, flying around
Bleu Oleander: first read "FL" as florida hehe
Eliza Madrigal giggles
Eliza Madrigal: well, it fits!
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: so there's SL and Florida hehe
Eliza Madrigal laughs
Eliza Madrigal: each alternative realities for sure
Bleu Oleander: funny
Eliza Madrigal: sharing the sense of off-beatness actually helped a great deal...
Bleu Oleander: AZ seems to be in it's own alternative reality atm
Eliza Madrigal: how so? e
Eliza Madrigal: -e
Eliza Madrigal: media attention and such?
Bleu Oleander: a lot going on politically and yes media
Bleu Oleander: emotions are high
Eliza Madrigal: AZ is quite a center in the last few years
Bleu Oleander: yes
Bleu Oleander: a lot of tension
Eliza Madrigal: locally,you feel that Bleu?
Bleu Oleander: yes, very much so
Eliza Madrigal: neighborhood talks?
Bleu Oleander: yes, talking with everyone, a lot of emotion
Eliza Madrigal: hope that can be channeled to some extent
Bleu Oleander: at our salons too
Bleu Oleander: I hope so too
Eliza Madrigal: Ah, yes you have a big group
Eliza Madrigal: I imagine lots of diverse perspectives?
Bleu Oleander: yes

Eliza Madrigal: easy to feel defensive perhaps, touchy... this is part of the beauty of PaB's 'idea' to me
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Bleu Oleander: PaB is definitely helpful
Eliza Madrigal: benefit-of-the-doubt/space-making dialogue is harder than it sounds
Bleu Oleander: wonderful to bring different perspectives together
Eliza Madrigal: yes

--BELL--

Bleu Oleander: hi Freud
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Freud
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Freud Jungsten: Heya
Bleu Oleander: well have to go .... nice talking with you .... c u later perhaps?
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Blue!
Eliza Madrigal: Nice talking with you too, Bleu, bye for now
Corvuscorva Nightfire: hello Frued
Eliza Madrigal: funny how our conversation came back to simple manners in a way :)
Freud Jungsten: osiyo
Eliza Madrigal: How are you Freud?
Freud Jungsten: OK...thanks
Eliza Madrigal: I'lll have to go in a sec too but can linger a few more minutes :)
Freud Jungsten: You>?
Eliza Madrigal: pretty well, bit of a cold (seems many with colds lately)
Eliza Madrigal: but it forces one to slow down
Eliza Madrigal: we were talking about various things this morning...
Eliza Madrigal: coming out of the time session
Freud Jungsten: I know what that is like
Freud Jungsten: brb

Then Freud poofed... 

Eliza Madrigal: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: nods
Eliza Madrigal: Lovely to see you Corvi
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and you, Eliza! Bye for now!
Eliza Madrigal: :)) bye for now