2011.01.20 07:00 - Better or bother?

The Guardian for this meeting was Storm Nordwind. The comments are by Storm Nordwind.

Riddle Sideways: Good Morning, my friend
Storm Nordwind is joined by a member of the Illuminati
Storm Nordwind: Hi!

Riddle was a luminous swirl of light.

--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: is this toooo distracting
Storm Nordwind: Not for me. I can't speak for the other dozen people who have yet to arrive! ;)
Storm Nordwind: Nice to see you anyway - it's very early for you I think
Riddle Sideways: well, things got started at home early today
Storm Nordwind: I hope that's good and not bad
Riddle Sideways: did not mean to be here, but am always there
Riddle Sideways: here
Riddle Sideways: no, is ok thing
Storm Nordwind nods
Riddle Sideways: partner has long drive today
Storm Nordwind: I see
Riddle Sideways: and phone rang early
Storm Nordwind: Lovely morning for it here. Bright moon in a clear sky
Riddle Sideways: cats announced that the food level was low
Riddle Sideways: seems warmer here
Riddle Sideways: the ice melted
Storm Nordwind: It's 15 degrees here right now

We talk about the current Art as Being project.

Riddle Sideways: are you doing anything for the next art project
Storm Nordwind: No. Unusually not this time. My attention was rather diverted and I lost touch with everything. Only now getting back
Storm Nordwind: You?
Riddle Sideways: understand... and sorry to hear you were diverted
Riddle Sideways: or needed to be
Riddle Sideways: how is she doing?
Storm Nordwind: Back at work two days ago. Healing very well. Thanks for asking :)
Riddle Sideways: very good to hear
Riddle Sideways: I am doing 'exploring'
Storm Nordwind: Oh? For the Art project?
Riddle Sideways: mostly
Storm Nordwind: Fruitful?
Riddle Sideways: I have another project (work-ish) that needs alts too
Riddle Sideways: so am/was combining
Riddle Sideways: not seem is Fruitful
Riddle Sideways: work in progress

A breakthrough with multiple avatars.

Riddle Sideways: had a somewhat breakthru the other day
Riddle Sideways: sometimes you need to sit down and talk to yourselves
Storm Nordwind smiles
Riddle Sideways: and I had a 5 way av to av chat
Riddle Sideways: we drew lines
Riddle Sideways: another thing is that changing av and not nametag seems to make little different

Some work I did a few months ago...

Storm Nordwind: Yes. I wrote a long paper including stuff on this a few months ago
Storm Nordwind: 20,000 words
Storm Nordwind: And studied the reasons for multiple avatars
Riddle Sideways: wow, that is a lot of words
Riddle Sideways: can I read a summary ;)
Storm Nordwind: Well it was for some university students - I'd have to ask the professor
Riddle Sideways: oh, thought you were the prof
Storm Nordwind: No, just a 'consultant'
Storm Nordwind: It was a usueful analysis for myself though, articulating what I knew intuitively
Riddle Sideways: yes, I bet
Storm Nordwind: Even counting all the avatars over the last 4-5 years was useful! ;)
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: the Philosopher av can not do manual labor and build pagodas
Riddle Sideways: how many avs did you count
Storm Nordwind: Nine
Riddle Sideways: all SL?
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Storm Nordwind: This is the most used
Riddle Sideways: then you have pretty well already done this alt art project
Storm Nordwind: And by avatars, I mean differently named ones
Storm Nordwind: Not same name with a different look
Riddle Sideways: put the 20,000 words on a notecard :)
Storm Nordwind: I'll ask first. But I won't forget.

What's in a name?

Riddle Sideways: am being to see that the name means the most difference
Storm Nordwind: Yes the name is huge
Riddle Sideways: maybe that "a rose is a rose by anyother name" is not quite right
Storm Nordwind: I remember writing about SL befriending and avoiding friends! I remember discussing the reputation that clings to one avatar name or another.
Storm Nordwind: And there was the need for others to have stability of the way you present in some scenarios
Storm Nordwind: And trust, and personation...
Storm Nordwind: All interesting to me, at least
Riddle Sideways: yes, others need us to be the same ol stable mates
Storm Nordwind: Hi Yaku
Riddle Sideways: Hi Yak

What others want us to be.

Riddle Sideways: we strive to change ourselves and our friends want us the same all the time
Storm Nordwind: Quite often yes
Storm Nordwind: So multiple avs are good to circumvent that
Riddle Sideways: yes
Riddle Sideways: Hi Observerm
Yakuzza Lethecus: hello observerm
observerm Resident: hello
Storm Nordwind: Yak, we are discussing the current Art as Being project
Storm Nordwind: Loosely anyway!

Lying, cheating and trust.

Riddle Sideways: however it was brought up that secret alts are a little like lying/cheating to our friendships
Storm Nordwind: Yes. But only sometimes, depending on the relationship status of that friendship
Storm Nordwind: In a marriage - or at least a successful one - my rule of thumb is "No lies and no secrets"
Storm Nordwind: So you'd be right there
Yakuzza Lethecus: ur in ur 3rd marriage storm, right ?
Riddle Sideways: most of this/PaB relationships are built on trust
Riddle Sideways: and truth
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: But in other cases, where the mutual commitment is in other areas, secret alts can simply be a way of ensuring that there is no accidental or delibrate manipulation of one person by another. Trust in all areas is only for a marriage
Storm Nordwind: (And Yak, the answer is 4th ;) )
Storm Nordwind: In fact, alts can help you work better with people because you are considerate of their expectations and feelings
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, an issue in talking to an alt is for example that if you know the person and are at a place like pab you got to tell him everything again about the group
Yakuzza Lethecus: or you need time ,,to get to know a new fictive person again"
Storm Nordwind: That's something that's an everyday occurance throughout SL. It's a risk we all take. I've not done it myself, but I don't regard it as a problem
Alfred Kelberry: meep!
Alfred Kelberry: hello, cute elephant :)
Alfred Kelberry: yaku, stormy :)
Storm Nordwind: Hi Boxy
Yakuzza Lethecus: i have sartre and i had the feeling that some ppl weren´t that glad about him still i wonder to whom of the ppl whom i´ve talked to more often didn´t know about him and partly it seemed that ppl forgot that they were supposed to know
Riddle Sideways: sorry, speaking of married, I been called away to help
Storm Nordwind: Hehe - bye Riddle!
Alfred Kelberry: helpful elephant :)
Storm Nordwind: All the best elephants are :)
Yakuzza Lethecus smiles at riddle, bye riddle if you leave longer
Alfred Kelberry: how is your wife, stormy?
Storm Nordwind: Just gone back to work, thanks Alfred
Alfred Kelberry: oh, recovered quickly - good! :)
Storm Nordwind: The operations should normally take just 2-3 days to recover. It was the massive infections she had that were the problem
Alfred Kelberry: ah
Alfred Kelberry: *sighs* well, good it's all settled now :)
Alfred Kelberry: *gives some breadcrumbs to fishes*

Different names - a new facility.

Storm Nordwind: One of things, Yaku, that Riddle and I were discussing was different avatars - and I suggested that differently named avatars were good for very different evnvironments (rather than presenting a different face in the same environment)
Storm Nordwind: That's not being dictatorial about use, just saying that's just an effective use
Storm Nordwind searches for his portable fish grilling kit
Alfred Kelberry: you can now change your name without leaving your av :)
Riddle Sideways: back
Storm Nordwind: wb
Alfred Kelberry: stormy, they're poisonous :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb riddle
Storm Nordwind: Would you like to describe how Alfred?
Alfred Kelberry: *points at his nick*
Alfred Kelberry: it's a new feature. you can change it once a week.
Alfred Kelberry: yaku did as well :)
Riddle Sideways: yes, Yak I forget that I know Sartre. the Yaku friend is not the same person
Storm Nordwind is looking for something but doesn't see it
Alfred Kelberry: ah, must be an old client
Alfred Kelberry: no fun with names for you, stormy :)
Storm Nordwind: If I want fun with names, I'll switch to one of the other eight avatars :)
Alfred Kelberry: ah, it's too complex
Yakuzza Lethecus: even pema with no self
Riddle Sideways: hmmmm, my viewer does not show nick
Yakuzza Lethecus: display name
Yakuzza Lethecus: must be in some tab
Yakuzza Lethecus: <- phoenix so i can´t help you with v2
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: cute, little boxy
Alfred Kelberry: *beams*
Alfred Kelberry: what books do you read currently?
Alfred Kelberry: if any
Riddle Sideways: had camera view over there, so got 90 sec of boxy on a box
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Riddle Sideways: yak poofed
Storm Nordwind checks his deoderant
Alfred Kelberry: yaku is back!
Storm Nordwind: Hoorah!

Reading material.

Alfred Kelberry: so, no books reading? anyone?
Riddle Sideways: sorry, distracted my viewer menus
Storm Nordwind: I read some novels recently. Now I have a bunch of Buddhist texts to study
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: stormy, sounds like a burden when you say it :)
Riddle Sideways: am getting back to Phiolsophy behind the Matrix
Riddle Sideways: but was reading all those year in review magizines
Riddle Sideways: have a tradition to read the year in review pubs at new years
Alfred Kelberry: riddle, i guess the matrix philosophy says that eventually the machines will take over
Riddle Sideways: smiles, we have already
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, isn´t it more on virtual reality and generally of reality as a construction ion our selves ?
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, when emotions take over it feels a lot like a matrix when recognizing that you are immersed in this world
Alfred Kelberry: i'm still waiting for a human capable ai
Alfred Kelberry: this will be the revolution
Yakuzza Lethecus: yes, there was a term for that
Yakuzza Lethecus: singulatiry
Yakuzza Lethecus: technological singularity
Riddle Sideways: :)
Riddle Sideways: *:::* WELCOME BACK *:::*
Yakuzza Lethecus: wb storm
Riddle Sideways: HOW DID THAT HAPPEN
Storm Nordwind: Thanks. Modem/Router crashed
Yakuzza Lethecus: you eate the wrong pill ?
Alfred Kelberry: wb, stormy :)
Riddle Sideways: funny, I don't remember driving a welcome carter over my gestures/shortcuts

CPUs.

Alfred Kelberry: is there a number of how many cpus are there per human in the world?
Riddle Sideways: there is a brain sim project our there
Alfred Kelberry: ah, yes
Riddle Sideways: a neural net project
Alfred Kelberry: by ibm, i think
Riddle Sideways: is not the number of cpus, it is how we use them
Yakuzza Lethecus: i bet modern computers could be as good as humans already, if the code humans write wouldn´t be that messy
Riddle Sideways: my computer has at least 8, but most of them are lay abouts doing nothing
Alfred Kelberry: i'd just like to hear a "50 cpus per human" figure :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: + 112 in my gpu
Alfred Kelberry: 112?
Yakuzza Lethecus: the stream processors of gpu´s are more commonly used today boxy
Storm Nordwind: They're breeding and multiplying perhaps?
Yakuzza Lethecus: around mica they talked about ,,cuda" and alike
--BELL--
Riddle Sideways: ws just playing iwth my Boinc settings yesterday
Riddle Sideways: changing projects
Alfred Kelberry: what projects do you participate in?
Riddle Sideways: oh dear 8 of them (seti, enstein, proteins, climate ...
Riddle Sideways: mica?
Riddle Sideways: raytracing farms?
Yakuzza Lethecus: http://www.mica-vw.org/wiki/index.ph...l_Astrophysics
Riddle Sideways: ty
Yakuzza Lethecus: but that wasn´t a subject in a long time, the last subject was the moon :)
Yakuzza Lethecus: and they just ,,mentioned" computing and datamining once in a while and that they still get too much data and to few power to compute
Riddle Sideways: has anybody visited second earth in SL
Storm Nordwind: Is that new?
Riddle Sideways: 2008
Alfred Kelberry: riddle, japanese simulator?
Storm Nordwind: perhaps then, but a long time ago
Riddle Sideways: just found it couple days ago
Riddle Sideways: could not get satellites showing
Storm Nordwind: What were your impressions?
Storm Nordwind: Oh yes I remember those
Riddle Sideways: pretty neat mashup
Storm Nordwind nods
Riddle Sideways: I searched on "Atlanis"
Riddle Sideways: it is in florida
Riddle Sideways: near where I use to live :D

The effects of "artificial intelligence".

Yakuzza Lethecus: riddle: is there a name yet for the void that a ,,human capable ai" would leave in the society yet
Yakuzza Lethecus: human capital would rapidly loose it´s value ?
Storm Nordwind: What do you mean by "human capable ai"?
Riddle Sideways: no idea. will have to research
Riddle Sideways: void?
Riddle Sideways: like a social hole?
Yakuzza Lethecus: a mental void in humans could possible be, yes
Yakuzza Lethecus: what´s it´s worth to study astrophysics if pema 2.0 is copyable anytime
Yakuzza Lethecus: or riddle v 2.127
Storm Nordwind: perhaps you speculate about something that may never happen? No sign yet that I've seen
Riddle Sideways: just ask the snowcrash Librarian
Alfred Kelberry: it'll make humans obsolete at some point
Riddle Sideways: hmmm, a word for that?
--BELL--
Alfred Kelberry: cause we're not efficient and too fragile
Storm Nordwind has yet to have a convincing conversation with a bot that lasted more than three sentences
Riddle Sideways: I was chatting with a bot on a SL island where they are doing those experiments and it's backend servers crashed
Riddle Sideways: about 3 minutes :)
Storm Nordwind: Bots always lack one thing that human carry intuitively
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, they are working on good ontologysystems
Alfred Kelberry: sadly, i won't see "hal" in my lifetime...
Storm Nordwind: They are no good at context and perspective
Riddle Sideways: and humans are not often logical
Riddle Sideways: maybe a partnership
Alfred Kelberry: we were much more logical back in the caves

Why bother?

Storm Nordwind: And there's a hint of arrogance in trying to replicate a human!
Alfred Kelberry: why?
Riddle Sideways: yes, goes into the why bother category
Storm Nordwind: We're at a snapshot point in evolution. Machines far exceed our capability in many ways. It's not as though we are a particularly good target to aim for.
Alfred Kelberry: well, without humans, they're mere hardware laying around
Alfred Kelberry: so far
Riddle Sideways: shhhhh, my smartphone is listening
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: stormy, i think we just want a better us
Yakuzza Lethecus: google is starting to save everyone´s language patterns to optimize it´s recognition but tts can also be anhanced through that
Riddle Sideways: it is Nuance that is doing it for/with Google
Yakuzza Lethecus: oh dragon
Alfred Kelberry: dragon is alright

Better?

Storm Nordwind: A better us? When we discover one within us, we'll have a clue about whet "better" might mean :)
Riddle Sideways: true, ya can not built/design what you do not know
Riddle Sideways: was thinking "Be the Best you can Be"
Riddle Sideways: ended up thinking of "The Perfect Storm"
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Storm Nordwind: Practice makes perfect - if you're a Buddhist!
Alfred Kelberry: imagine if we had memory like computers. could easily store pdf books and cite any page :)
Yakuzza Lethecus hopes that the future will see humans radically as an end in itself
--BELL--
Storm Nordwind: I already have a memory like a computer. It's called a computer. And the internet! I don't need to carry it round with me. In fact I don't WANT to carry it round with me thank you very much. :)
Riddle Sideways: oh dear, my Droid has wikipedia on/in it
Yakuzza Lethecus: well, smartphones are getting better, and i often don´t recall something right, but the computer fills my gabs
Riddle Sideways: with me in the grocery store
Storm Nordwind loves tools ... but doesn't want to be one himself :)
Riddle Sideways: yes

Time to go.

Riddle Sideways: did you ever be having a good chat and look up to see you are chatting with a cardboard box robot
Riddle Sideways needs to go find a bug in my tool
Storm Nordwind: haha!
Storm Nordwind: Nice to see you
Riddle Sideways: thanks all
Riddle Sideways: bye
Storm Nordwind waves
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye riddle
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
Storm Nordwind toptoes away quietly, trying to avoid waking Alfred :)