2011.10.09 19:00 - Myths of Creation and Re-turn

The Guardian for this meeting was Calvino Rabeni. The comments are by Calvino Rabeni.

druth Vlodovic: hey
Calvino Rabeni: (!)
Calvino Rabeni: How are campaigns in your domains ? :)
oO0Oo Resident: feigns brains... reigning :)
Calvino Rabeni: We, I suppose, feign it to remain it
oO0Oo Resident: truly royal
Calvino Rabeni: Or retrain it :)
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Dash !
Dash Earthboy: hey y'all
oO0Oo Resident: Dash! just thinking about you today. Good to see you.
Dash Earthboy: gtsy2
Dash Earthboy: :)
Calvino Rabeni: I think, if you're still in shouting distance of the Rocky mountains, I'm a little envious
Dash Earthboy: i'm trying to get some pics for ya :)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Calvino Rabeni: thanks :)
Calvino Rabeni: As for me, the wayward feline has returned as darkness fell, and the doors are closed against the dusk
oO0Oo Resident feels the space for open refrain
Dash Earthboy: we're still waiting for one feline to return from outside
Dash Earthboy: the other two are already in
Dash Earthboy: and the dogs are fed and content
Dash Earthboy: hey Fox
Calvino Rabeni: Hi Fox
oO0Oo Resident: measure by measure... the soloists... the felines of coming and going, of curling and arching, rubbing and batting, sensing and playing... sleeping
--BELL--

oO0Oo Resident: drawing one into body gravity like nothing elese
Fox Monacular: hi everyone! (sorry my computer is really slow these days, I might not respond right away:)
Calvino Rabeni: :) Fox ... it's my brain not the computer in this case
Dash Earthboy: :)
Fox Monacular: oh, I gave up my my brain a while back:)
oO0Oo Resident: Welcome Fox
oO0Oo Resident: gtsy
Calvino Rabeni: It wanders off in the dark somewhere like the wayward feline
Fox Monacular: :) I know the feeling
Calvino Rabeni: Especially on a night of a waxing moon, like this one
Dash Earthboy: ah yes!
Dash Earthboy: the moon!
oO0Oo Resident: la lune
Fox Monacular: luna
Dash Earthboy: i should be at the coffeehouse named Cafe Luna on a night like this
oO0Oo Resident: Mond
Dash Earthboy: crisp evening in the mid-40s here
Dash Earthboy: clear skies
oO0Oo Resident: steady as she goes
Dash Earthboy: perfect night to sip hot tea and stare skyward
oO0Oo Resident: we may have to steer by the stars tonight
oO0Oo Resident: snap
Fox Monacular: tea - check, stargazing - almost there:)
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Fox Monacular: hi Lucinda!
Calvino Rabeni: I'll check with the chief purser, and the cook (oh, that's me) on whether tea is prepared...
Calvino Rabeni: Hey Cinda
Dash Earthboy: hey Luci
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Everyone:)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Luci
Lucinda Lavender: Having a lovely evening by the fire pit:)
Dash Earthboy: nice :)
oO0Oo Resident: "and this is the wonder that's keeping the stars apart"
Dash Earthboy: can you see the stars too?
Lucinda Lavender: was able to a bit ago...clouds came
Dash Earthboy: and the moon, the moon
Lucinda Lavender: the moon is beautiful here tonight
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Calvino Rabeni: ... ah, tea well in hand, English variety I believe, with orange blossom honey of a domestic variety .. delicious
Lucinda Lavender: was able to included it in a small movie I made
oO0Oo Resident: wow
Lucinda Lavender: I burned the paper we made at the retreat...
Dash Earthboy: sounds great Cal...wish you could share :)
Dash Earthboy: why Luci?
Calvino Rabeni: why, Luci?
Lucinda Lavender: a montage of sorts...
Lucinda Lavender: burned it up in the fire pit
Calvino Rabeni: in a ritual fashion?
Lucinda Lavender: yes
Lucinda Lavender: well everyone thought it would be a good idea
Lucinda Lavender: maybe the telling of personal stories...need to be allowed to deconstruct
Calvino Rabeni nods .. wonders what went where in this event
Calvino Rabeni: ah
Lucinda Lavender: :)
Lucinda Lavender: tiny bits of ash
Lucinda Lavender: and glowing coals
Calvino Rabeni: If things don't end, but just change form, then nothing truly deconstructs, but enters a different domain and way of being distributed
--BELL--

Dash Earthboy: hey Stev
Lucinda Lavender: what has been the topic here?
stevenaia Michinaga: evening
Alfred Kelberry: wuff!
Fox Monacular: hey steve and boxy
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, "evening" was the theme :)
Lucinda Lavender: HI steve:)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Dash Earthboy: hey boxy
Alfred Kelberry: foxy fluent french :)
Lucinda Lavender: wuff boxy
Fox Monacular: parfois, oui boxy
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Alfred Kelberry: ouch, the bell
Alfred Kelberry: did you learn it in quebec, foxy?
Fox Monacular: ca arrive, n t'en fais pas, alfred:)
Fox Monacular: well, I learned some in my high school in Moscow
Alfred Kelberry: ah, neat
Fox Monacular: but really learned to speak it in quebec, qhen I started working in a french hospital
Fox Monacular: what about you, boxy?
Dash Earthboy: hey San
druth Vlodovic: what was the significance of the paper?
Alfred Kelberry: me? no french here :)
Santoshima Resident: hey
Fox Monacular: :)
Alfred Kelberry: yet, i've been wanting to learn it ever since i got to paris the first time :)
Alfred Kelberry: stev, what paber is in paris right now? i forgot...
Calvino Rabeni: I fear the wireless reception is poor in the hinterlands, and Lucinda may have been detained
Dash Earthboy: mon dieu
Alfred Kelberry: ah, poor luci
stevenaia Michinaga: no one perminently that I know of, Paradise is traveling there
Alfred Kelberry: ah yes, para! :)
Alfred Kelberry: "the paris excuse" :)
stevenaia Michinaga: hehe
stevenaia Michinaga: can't wait to use it
Dash Earthboy: sounds like a movie :)
Alfred Kelberry: stev, make sure it's her session when you do :)
stevenaia Michinaga: ofcourse
Alfred Kelberry: *wonders why foxy has a foxy av*
Alfred Kelberry: *thinks of fox mulder*
Fox Monacular: I'm undercover
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Santoshima Resident: we all are
Dash Earthboy: :)
Dash Earthboy: i'm underpaid
druth Vlodovic: g2g, 'night all
Dash Earthboy: 'nite druth
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Druth
Fox Monacular: take care, dr
Fox Monacular: druth
Dash Earthboy: San how's the moon where you are?
stevenaia Michinaga: hi ELiza
Alfred Kelberry: charming eliza :)
Dash Earthboy: hey Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi everyone :))
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Boxy, Stevenaia, Santo, Eliza, Obs :)
Fox Monacular: Hi Eliza!!!
Eliza Madrigal: !!! :))) Nice to see you Fox
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening, Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Samúð
Fox Monacular: So nice to see you:)
Eliza Madrigal zooms to see new Foxy appearance
Fox Monacular: hehe, just a random avi ... sort of to make sure people don't forget my name:)
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: :))
Santoshima Resident: your name is unforgettable
Dash Earthboy: Fox, where's the bushy tail?
Fox Monacular: hehe, i have an onigikko tail
Dash Earthboy: yah
Fox Monacular: onigokko, i mean
Dash Earthboy: looked like it belonged on a possum :)
Dash Earthboy: you playing possum?
Dash Earthboy: :)
Fox Monacular: shhhh, do'nt tell the possums
oO0Oo Resident: onigokk-o
oO0Oo Resident: ;)
Fox Monacular: ok
Fox Monacular: onigokko
Santoshima Resident: ok, son't stop alread
Santoshima Resident: already
oO0Oo Resident giggles
Santoshima Resident: stop
stevenaia Michinaga: just stop will do :)
Dash Earthboy: Woooohuuuuu
Santoshima Resident: ok, go already
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s good excercise, San, you should try it
Santoshima Resident: :)
oO0Oo Resident: onigokko
oO0Oo Resident: stop
Fox Monacular: steve and I are your puppets:) oO0Oo:)
Santoshima Resident: how did you coordinate that?
Santoshima Resident: uncanny
Santoshima Resident: ah, the red column of light appeareth yonder behind the PaB billboard
Calvino Rabeni: it is, San
Calvino Rabeni: There's nothing like it in RL
Calvino Rabeni: At least not physically
Calvino Rabeni: Except maybe, for a dance troupe
oO0Oo Resident: we are all partners in the cosmicdance
Santoshima Resident: true, true, cal
Santoshima Resident: what is that phenomenon we might ask
Santoshima Resident: whose mortal hand?
Santoshima Resident: or is it immortal, i forget
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/~keith/poems/tyger.html

Tyger! Tyger! burning bright
In the forests of the night,
What immortal hand or eye
Could frame thy fearful symmetry?

Fox Monacular: I'll have to go now. Thanks everyone, have a great evening!
Calvino Rabeni: Dream well, Fox
Dash Earthboy: bye Fox
Santoshima Resident: so long, fox
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Fox
oO0Oo Resident: no strings attached
Eliza Madrigal: Night Fox (belated)
Calvino Rabeni:

On what wings dare he aspire?
What the hand dare sieze the fire?
And what shoulder, & what art.
Could twist the sinews of thy heart?
And when thy heart began to beat,
What dread hand? & what dread feet?
What the hammer? what the chain?
In what furnace was thy brain?

Calvino Rabeni: ... uncanny indeed ...

What the anvil? what dread grasp
Dare its deadly terrors clasp?
When the stars threw down their spears,
And watered heaven with their tears,
Did he smile his work to see?
Did he who made the Lamb make thee?

--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: :)
Eliza Madrigal: :))
Dash Earthboy: time for a little exploring...
Dash Earthboy: pax et bonum y'all
oO0Oo Resident: pax dash
Eliza Madrigal: Is it snowing in Colorado Dash?
Calvino Rabeni: Pax friend
Eliza Madrigal: Oh, okay... bye Dash
Alfred Kelberry: *imagines snowy colorado mountains*
Eliza Madrigal: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, night all
Eliza Madrigal: Night Stevie
Calvino Rabeni: Good night Stevenaia :)
Santoshima Resident: night stevenaia
oO0Oo Resident: Night Stevenaia
Santoshima Resident: sweet dreams
Eliza Madrigal: I suppose I should mosey as well... up quite late especially for a Sunday...
Calvino Rabeni: The turning point of the week
Calvino Rabeni: Good night, dream well
Eliza Madrigal: Good Night :) And you as well
Santoshima Resident: rest well, eliza
Eliza Madrigal: And Good Night Santo and Sam and Boxy :)
oO0Oo Resident: *turning point*
Alfred Kelberry: *waves to the observer*
oO0Oo Resident: Night Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: pivots away....
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Alfred Kelberry: *tucks eliza in* :)
Santoshima Resident: sweet, boxy
Calvino Rabeni wonders: Are we puppets, poppies in a field of grass, or part of the Axis Mundi ?
Santoshima Resident: if it's a multiple choice ... all of the above
Alfred Kelberry: what?
Calvino Rabeni: The Axis Mundi is the turning point of the world
Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_mundi
Alfred Kelberry: ah
Alfred Kelberry: thanks
Santoshima Resident: meru dandha
Santoshima Resident: danda
Alfred Kelberry: we may be puppets with no free will, but how can you tell?
Calvino Rabeni: There's a character that moves from age to age, an artificial creature that wants to be "real"
Santoshima Resident: bugs bunny?
Alfred Kelberry: heh
Alfred Kelberry: cal, that's a nice foreword for matrix 4 :)
Alfred Kelberry: one day our kids will be watching the matrix 4d (or something)
Santoshima Resident: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Pinocchio
Calvino Rabeni: Or "Commander Data"
Calvino Rabeni: The scientific worldview told us we were machines
Calvino Rabeni: and that didn't completely sit well
Alfred Kelberry: 19th century view
Calvino Rabeni: So the machine wanted to become a real person again
Calvino Rabeni: Now there's a lot of talk that we are biological machines
Calvino Rabeni: we can even be said to be self-programming
Calvino Rabeni: And the AI people are still wondering if the machine can become conscious
Calvino Rabeni: accidentally or on purpose
Alfred Kelberry: ah, you go on with the matrix :)
Alfred Kelberry: is evolution accidental?
--BELL--

Alfred Kelberry: *notes a paparazzi in the room* :)
Calvino Rabeni: I don't know, Boxy, what do you think?
Calvino Rabeni: But I do like the stories
Calvino Rabeni: Because they appear in different ages
Santoshima Resident: yes, i like to photograph, it's the one thing that is especially entertaining :)
Santoshima Resident: good night ~ thanks
Calvino Rabeni: Take care, Santoshima
Santoshima Resident: ty, you too, cal
oO0Oo Resident: night
Santoshima Resident: sweet dreams, Sam
Santoshima Resident: and boxy, a wonderful weekend to you
Alfred Kelberry: thank you :)
Alfred Kelberry: cal, we seem to be the only ones to defy it and be somewhat successful
Calvino Rabeni: To defy the "law of accident"?
Alfred Kelberry: we now live up to 100
Calvino Rabeni: Longer than our ancestors
Alfred Kelberry: i'd really like to meet an other life form capable of that
Calvino Rabeni: Capable of renegotiating the terms of its embodiment in the world, I see your point
Alfred Kelberry: we successfully eliminated the competitors on this planet
Calvino Rabeni: um well there are viruses and bacteria ... they will likely stay ahead of us
Calvino Rabeni: their speed and distributed intelligence is formidable
Calvino Rabeni: talk about "agile development"
Calvino Rabeni: they have it down
Alfred Kelberry: yea... persistent ones
Alfred Kelberry: but see, they're strong in numbers. we have a problem with that.
Alfred Kelberry: 7 billion and it's overpopulated they say
Alfred Kelberry: i thought 6; just looked it up: 6.97
Calvino Rabeni: Perhaps, as a creature evolves .. even a collective one, it comes to see its social network, all its relationships with the other creatures, as symbiotic as much as competitive
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: There's another mythological artificial intelligence creature ... the Golem
Calvino Rabeni: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golem
Alfred Kelberry: not a novel thought :)
Calvino Rabeni: In one of the stories, the trouble starts when the golem is rejected in love, by a human, which I like in that it shows non-living matter sometimes has a heart
Alfred Kelberry: time to go
Alfred Kelberry: hope everyone is loved :)
Calvino Rabeni: Take care Alfred / Boxy
Calvino Rabeni: thanks :)
oO0Oo Resident: Bye Boxy
oO0Oo Resident:

"In its earliest known modern form, the Golem of Chelm became enormous and uncooperative. In one version of this story, the rabbi had to resort to trickery to deactivate it, whereupon it crumbled upon its creator and crushed him. There is a similar hubris theme in Frankenstein, The Sorcerer's Apprentice and some golem-derived stories in popular culture."

Calvino Rabeni: Thanks, that's interesting
Calvino Rabeni: I wonder what the mythic issues are in these stories
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes it's oppression and rebellion
Calvino Rabeni: Sometimes maybe it's the need for body and soul to be in balance
Calvino Rabeni: If you have a body without a soul, it's a golem... a soul without a body is a ghost (if they operate in our domain)
Calvino Rabeni: In either case it's uncanny
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: It seems to mean, it's important to follow the recipe, if one is a creator
Calvino Rabeni: Or speaks of an intrinsic unity, by showing what happens when it starts to come apart
oO0Oo Resident: I let others engineer their own petards
Calvino Rabeni: It seems to happen occasionally, in the outlying cases
oO0Oo Resident: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_inventors_killed_by_their_own_inventions
Calvino Rabeni: There's "whoever digs a pit will fall into it" which looks like it shows up in the Christian book in two different places
--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: I suspect the book of Ecclesiastes may have been written by Lao Tzu or Chuang Tzu ..
Calvino Rabeni: (not really, but it reads similarly in a lot of ways)... similar to the Tao Te Ching

Do you want to improve the world? I don't think it can be done.
The world is sacred. It can't be improved.
If you tamper with it, you'll ruin it.
If you treat it like an object, you'll lose it.
There is a time for being ahead, a time for being behind;
A time for being in motion, a time for being at rest;
A time for being vigorous, a time for being exhausted;
A time for being safe, a time for being in danger.
http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/core9/phalsall/texts/taote-v3.html#29

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
A time to be born, and a time to die;
A time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
A time to kill, and a time to heal;
Atime to break down, and a time to build up;
A time to weep, and a time to laugh;
A time to mourn, and a time to dance;
A time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together;
A time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;
A time to get, and a time to lose;
A time to keep, and a time to cast away;
A time to rend, and a time to sew;
A time to keep silence, and a time to speak;
A time to love, and a time to hate;
A time of war, and a time of peace.
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/141100.html

Calvino Rabeni: The story gets lived out in tradition on a yearly basis
Calvino Rabeni: It's interesting that the tradition of Carnival comes before Lent:

"Carnival is a festive season which occurs immediately before Lent; the main events are usually during February. Carnival typically involves a public celebration or parade combining some elements of a circus, mask and public street party. People often dress up or masquerade during the celebrations, which mark an overturning of daily life."

Calvino Rabeni: Participation in this turning seems to be the important thing
Calvino Rabeni: given that people spiral out and away from the Axis Mundi
Calvino Rabeni: and need to bring centrifugal and centripetal forces into a dynamic balance