2011.10.14 07:00 - After Regarding Reality...

The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

A discussion in which shells and caves figure prominently...sorting how we respond to crisis.

Eliza Madrigal: Hi Luci :))
oO0Oo Resident: Bye pema
Boots Danitz: good day 2 every1
Zen Arado: bye Pema, Maxine
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Boots, Luci
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Boots :)
Eliza Madrigal: good day 2 u
Zen Arado: Hi Luci, Boots
Boots Danitz: do i have my schedule wrong? or why is every1 leaving
Eliza Madrigal: On Friday mornings we now have a special session
Eliza Madrigal: "Regarding Reality"
Lucinda Lavender: everyone..
Eliza Madrigal: at 6am
druth Vlodovic: we have a new meet from 6 till 7
Lucinda Lavender: HI
druth Vlodovic: um, on fridays, it's a thing maxine is doing
Lucinda Lavender: And then at 7 the regular session starts
Eliza Madrigal nods
Boots Danitz: i see ty
Bruce Mowbray: http://wiki.playasbeing.org/PaB_Books/Books/Regarding_Reality
Boots Danitz: i should come in earlier on fridays then :)
oO0Oo Resident: can I drop a last moment perspective on sheels/caves please?
Bruce Mowbray: go for it, 0.
druth Vlodovic: shoot
oO0Oo Resident: shells*
oO0Oo Resident: I have an image of the shell being a dynamic thing that can expand and contract more readily in childhood. ~ solidifying and dissolving as a natural response when outer healing agents are not available to meet needs or trauma experiences. Thoughts and language also become hard and soft again. I see the shell as getting less dynamic and more permanent through patterns of necessity over time (bearing). Healing cave, on the other hand, i see as like antedote like provision when there is healthy environment, and needs are largely met. When child is grumpy with a parent, they can go heal in the treehouse for instance (a safe place to be alone), but if parent is really abusive, and there is no safe place.. then shell begins to grow spontaneously...?
Boots Danitz: interesting!
Zen Arado: yes ..a more flexible shell/cave
Bruce Mowbray: (You've just written my biography, 0 --- and perhaps that of many.)
Eliza Madrigal: beautiful Sam
Boots Danitz: writ me down in that 2 lol
Eliza Madrigal nods
oO0Oo Resident: thanks for readin (slow typer ;)
druth Vlodovic: I tend not to see things as inherently good or bad, except in extremem cases, I suspect most shells are both protective and healing in intent, though some are less effective
Zen Arado: but it's usually thought good when we talk about someone 'coming out of their shell?
Boots Danitz: lol i guess it depends
Boots Danitz: sometimes u might want to kick some1 back into their shell lol
Boots Danitz: jk
Zen Arado: ok..I'll get back in :)
oO0Oo Resident: with bunny slippers
Boots Danitz: lol not u dude
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
druth Vlodovic: a shell also makes people easier to deal with, since they determine behaviour and are much simpler than the individual
Eliza Madrigal: those that you can come in and out of aren't the awful ones
Lucinda Lavender: :))
Boots Danitz: ok life is good! got my capucchino at my side
Boots Danitz: ahhhh
Zen Arado: capuccino shell :)
Boots Danitz: frothy shell indeed
Bruce Mowbray: Having the freedom/option and availability to enter/leave makes all the difference -- and awareness makes that freedom.
Boots Danitz: interesting bruce
Boots Danitz: in my experience ive found it very hard to "come out"
Boots Danitz: i mean i knew i had to
Boots Danitz: yet the accustumed patterns kinda made me stop
Zen Arado: interesting we use the term about gays people
druth Vlodovic: why did you have to?
Bruce Mowbray gets his own capuccino. . .
Lucinda Lavender: Luci is thinking back to how play has opened the shell for her...
Boots Danitz: well i was told by many i clammed up on a regular basis
Boots Danitz: after a while i was convinced it was bad
Zen Arado: clam..a shell hmmm
Eliza Madrigal nods ...
Boots Danitz: yet i dunno might be the custom but it was frightening
druth Vlodovic: ah, so it is the opinion of others, which you value
Boots Danitz: in my particular case yeah it was a big deal
Zen Arado: this metaphor is so pervasive
Boots Danitz: u see im a passive personality
Boots Danitz: thus i felt unworthy most of my life
druth Vlodovic: lol, don' let me bullky you, I just like to ask questions, I was given a shell by my father that compells me to do so :)
Boots Danitz: thus clamming up and hiding was a natural defense
Boots Danitz: oh i appreciate your questions :)
Eliza Madrigal: and if you feel that way, you can find lots of confirmations
oO0Oo Resident: *clamming*
Boots Danitz: life is all about facing the tough questions
Boots Danitz: thats the main deal eliza i kinda evolved into not caring
Boots Danitz: and well eventually i kinda let go
Zen Arado: that could be another shell?
Boots Danitz: i guess it could
oO0Oo Resident: giving up on life?
Boots Danitz: i mean its kinda difficult to tell aint it
Boots Danitz: not really giving up
Boots Danitz: more like letting go
oO0Oo Resident nods
Zen Arado: Hi Susan
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Susan (brb)
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Susan :)
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, Susan.
Boots Danitz: i mean if we base our opinion on life on our perceptions how can u tell if something is a perceptual lie or reality
Eliza Madrigal: Oh....
Lucinda Lavender: Susan:)
iwandertoo Resident: waves - sorry about that Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: didn't see you sit, Susan... thought you were on viewer
Eliza Madrigal: :)) no worries at all
Boots Danitz: i had a nice convo with a guy that comes here
Boots Danitz: a guy called kavi
Eliza Madrigal: ah, yes interesting fellow
Boots Danitz: he was very deep into the analysis of perception
Zen Arado: so many Buddhist books I have read are about opening up and staying with the vulnerability that entails...
--BELL--

Boots Danitz: i mean he was very interesting had tons of knowledge yet he read well 2 preocuppied
Bruce Mowbray will 'drop' into his vulnerabilities now....
Boots Danitz: shh
Boots Danitz: in a way i guess i related to him as when i went down my own path i kida got obsessed by it lol
druth Vlodovic: that's how the human mechanism propels learning :)
Boots Danitz: yes although it can turn obsessive at times
Boots Danitz: u get into this sort of crisis mode
Bruce Mowbray: Get obsessed; stay obsessed.
Boots Danitz: :)
Eliza Madrigal: I think that's a hidden belief of our time... that crisis = progress
Boots Danitz: i myself believe crisis to b addictive
Zen Arado: perfectionism could be a kind of shell....if i do it perfectly nothing could possible go wrong?...
druth Vlodovic: an obsesed person is their own flow, how does a river know it's banks?
Lucinda Lavender: :)))
Zen Arado: agree Druth
Boots Danitz: very deep statement druth and quite true
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Zen Arado: it is narrowing
druth Vlodovic: yes, it is an awfully destructive addiction, I'm still trying to figure out how it is a positive thing
Boots Danitz: for 1 i believe that obsession with crisis derives from fear of the unknown
oO0Oo Resident: back
Bruce Mowbray: being "cool" is not a remedy for "crisis"
Boots Danitz: thus we choose to hold on to crisis however disagreeable
Boots Danitz: for at least its known
Zen Arado: if we narrow the world we don't have to deal with a lot of it?
Lucinda Lavender: yes Zen...
Lucinda Lavender: and when some of lifes stresses change one can feel a bit like the tide went out
Boots Danitz: for example i recall after 9/11 i couldnt stop watching the news. I knew that regardless of how many times i saw it i wouldnt understand it any better yet i kept on looking for days
Lucinda Lavender: ...alone on the beach
Bruce Mowbray: I did the same, Boots. . .
Boots Danitz: i guess most did yet the fact got me wondering
Boots Danitz: i mean why did my brain choose to go on looking
Boots Danitz: was kinda hooked into the crisis mode
Boots Danitz: and related that to several events in my life
Boots Danitz: buying into the crisis due to fear of having to move on forwars
druth Vlodovic: ah, that I can pin a positive on, that sort of crisis might require action, so you are compelled to learn about it
Boots Danitz: forward*
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps the monsters that we know are preferable to those we don't know.
Boots Danitz: thought so myself bruce
Eliza Madrigal: well and there is an activated 'painbody' according to some...
Boots Danitz: dang it my 10:30 appointment arrived early
Boots Danitz: have to go now
Eliza Madrigal: that comes out and can't get enough food
Boots Danitz: take care
druth Vlodovic: ah, have fun boots
Zen Arado: bye Boots
Lucinda Lavender: good day Boots:)
Eliza Madrigal: bye Boots :)
druth Vlodovic: tell them to be more considerate of your SL time :)
Bruce Mowbray: I also need to away myself - - THANKS, everyone.
Lucinda Lavender: oh...the pain body
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Bruce :)
Zen Arado: bye Bruce
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Lucinda Lavender: bye Bruce:)
Eliza Madrigal nods Luci.... think news can be a pain body food
Lucinda Lavender: yes...
Zen Arado: so much focus on bad things
Eliza Madrigal: one thing to be informed but there comes a 'can't get enough' of the same loop....
druth Vlodovic: tell me about this "pain body" is it a sort of sub-identity?
Lucinda Lavender: I think sometimes if we are generally looking for more information....we hold to that functionaing part...of the personallity
oO0Oo Resident: some say tha tsociety is largely traumatised
Eliza Madrigal: hmmm
Zen Arado: http://www.detoxifynow.com/et_pain_body.html
Eliza Madrigal: I guess mostly buddhist teachers and eckhart tolle refer to it ... but for sure it is helpful in a moment of drama when one feels 'what the heck is happenning'
Lucinda Lavender: Luci is thinking about as a child when her dad went to work one day and died...
druth Vlodovic: we have so little renewal that we seek to bull through on willpower, which leads to extremism (personal) and addiction behaviour (if taken down that path)
Eliza Madrigal: (((((Luci))))))))
Eliza Madrigal: rug pulled out
Lucinda Lavender: well it was such a huge thing...
Lucinda Lavender: so very clear how much "trauma" has an effect
Eliza Madrigal: yes
oO0Oo Resident: (((Luci)))
Zen Arado: oh Luci
Lucinda Lavender: so the world was very different and huge amounts of hormones( probably adrenlyn) are running through the system
Lucinda Lavender: the same on 9/11
Eliza Madrigal: 'the world was different'
Lucinda Lavender: the fear creeps up
Lucinda Lavender: what dod we do now...etc
Lucinda Lavender: do
--BELL--

Lucinda Lavender: what needs to happen now?
Eliza Madrigal: and, then there is also 'the idea' of an insightful body that might emerge different appetites ... earlier reliances having failed
druth Vlodovic: "The moment you observe, feel its energy field within you, and take your attention into it, the identification is broken"
druth Vlodovic: I hate it when people say stuff like that, because it is not instant in any degree
Zen Arado: yeh thre main solution seems to ust become aware of it
Lucinda Lavender: yes druth...
Lucinda Lavender: , Zen too
Zen Arado: which is a practice
Lucinda Lavender: then one stands back and looks or something
druth Vlodovic: the first step is to become aware, and every third step after that...
Zen Arado: kind of noticing it in your body and stepping back from the thoughts
Zen Arado: Eliza?
Eliza Madrigal: ah, my sense is quite different.... that 'immediacy' overwhelms the before and after of our feeling
Eliza Madrigal: like there is a lag when we think we do something
Zen Arado: getting to the feelings and not the thughts about the feelings?
Eliza Madrigal: hmm, nods
Eliza Madrigal: so the instant we turn, stop... all there..
Zen Arado: it's just a different way of phrasing the idea that emotional trauma are stored in the body I think
Lucinda Lavender: Luci must go open up the chickens..
Zen Arado: don't think it is instantaneous
Eliza Madrigal: moment of openness/opportunityinteresting
Lucinda Lavender: brb
oO0Oo Resident: let the chickens be free! yay!
Zen Arado: they cap start opening shells :)
Eliza Madrigal: just some quality of awareness... but hm... stopping is deep
oO0Oo Resident: practice
Zen Arado: 'focusing' is a better idea I think
Eliza Madrigal: immediacy and instantaneous maybe not the same too...
oO0Oo Resident: mm
oO0Oo Resident: `instantaneous is a measure of time, immediacy a felt sense
Eliza Madrigal: thank you, yes
oO0Oo Resident: focusing better for what Zen?
Zen Arado: http://www.effective-mind-control.com/eugene-gendlin-focusing.html
Zen Arado: it's a psychotherapeutic technique
Zen Arado: allowing the body to come up with answers to problems
Zen Arado: which seems strange
Lucinda Lavender: back
oO0Oo Resident: yes, I was wondering if you were suggesting it as beeter than simply mindfulness/awareness practices for assisting kinds of recovery... ah kk
Zen Arado: http://www.focusing.org/
Zen Arado: maybe that is a better link
Zen Arado: I don't know Sam
Zen Arado: I am testing it atm
Eliza Madrigal: sort of interesting... would take slowing down to ask the body questions... like in a dream asking a figure who they are or what they represent....
Zen Arado: anyone else tried it?
Eliza Madrigal shakes head
Zen Arado: there were some articles on Tricycle abut it
Lucinda Lavender: have not tried it
Eliza Madrigal: thinking about trauma... perhaps an issue is thta we expect it to ever resolve
Zen Arado: http://uk.mg.bt.mail.yahoo.com/neo/launch?.partner=bt-1&.rand=eehrqhfnis23p
Zen Arado: sorry for too many links Luci
--BELL--

Eliza Madrigal: as though there will ever be a time that something won't come up and remind us, or we won't feel it fresh.... and as though that would be a 'good' thing...
Eliza Madrigal: (sorry long sentence)
Lucinda Lavender: not a problem Zen:)
oO0Oo Resident: You might be interested in Hakomi therapy (body centered) as well... it draws partially on focusing techniques: http://www.hakomiinstitute.com
Lucinda Lavender: I look forward to reading the links later. I have such lag that everything is very hard to do at onece
Zen Arado: interesting Sam
Zen Arado: we need another lifetime to try all these techniques :)
Eliza Madrigal: haha
oO0Oo Resident: this is your last Zen :P
Zen Arado: ha ha
druth Vlodovic: "nobody is dead until they are forgotten" making a necessity of a natural tendedncy
Eliza Madrigal: hmm
Lucinda Lavender: I need to go friends...
Zen Arado: yeh me too
Lucinda Lavender: will post the log later:)
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Luci, have a lovely day :) happy chilckens and children
Lucinda Lavender: :))
druth Vlodovic: I've got to run as well, have fun all
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Zen, happy trying all techniquest
Lucinda Lavender: same to all of you ...
Zen Arado: thanks for discussions
Zen Arado: bye all
oO0Oo Resident: Have a good day/night Luci/Zen :))
Eliza Madrigal: Bye Druth :) Thanks, interesting thoughts
iwandertoo Resident: waves
Eliza Madrigal: hm... suddenly aware of to do list...
Lucinda Lavender: friday todo list...
oO0Oo Resident: Bye druth
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye druth
oO0Oo Resident: bye susan
Yakuzza Lethecus: bye everyone
oO0Oo Resident: Eliza
oO0Oo Resident: :)
Eliza Madrigal waves
oO0Oo Resident: ::remembers Luci's Dad::
oO0Oo Resident: not forgotten
oO0Oo Resident: bye yaku
Eliza Madrigal thanks Luci's dad for Luci :))
oO0Oo Resident: :))))
oO0Oo Resident: Hi