2011.10.16 07:00 - Choosing

The Guardian for this meeting was iwandertoo Resident. The comments are by iwandertoo Resident.

Archmage Atlantis: Hello sister Susan
iwandertoo Resident: hi Arch
Archmage Atlantis: All we ar we are
iwandertoo Resident: how so?
Archmage Atlantis: Odtta told me so
iwandertoo Resident: pardon?
Archmage Atlantis: this day is special
iwandertoo Resident: in any particular way?
Archmage Atlantis: Martin Luther King is to be memorialzed in th capital the US
Archmage Atlantis: I lived as a white man
Archmage Atlantis: In ihis
Archmage Atlantis: time
iwandertoo Resident: nods
Archmage Atlantis: we are one ppl
iwandertoo Resident: yes
Wol Euler: afternoon all
iwandertoo Resident: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUe-M...eature=related
iwandertoo Resident: hi Wol
iwandertoo Resident: i went to the Open Door India Arie / Idan Raichel concert last evening
iwandertoo Resident: i think you would have enjoyed the music Arch
Wol Euler listens.
Archmage Atlantis: Tis a giftto be simple
--BELL--
iwandertoo Resident: nods
iwandertoo Resident: this was their message, i believe
Wol Euler: hello sam, zen
iwandertoo Resident: waves
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Wol, Arch , Susan
oO0Oo Resident: Zen :)
Archmage Atlantis: The dragons are callled
Zen Arado: Hi Wol. Arc, Susan, Sam
Wol Euler notes Arch's mini dragon wings
Zen Arado: I wonder if you could say somethng in German Wol? I want to try a new translator I just bought
oO0Oo Resident: :)))
Wol Euler: ja gerne, die einzige frage wäre ob die maschine mich folgen kann :)
Wol Euler: hat das geklappt?
Zen Arado: ty can you see the translatikn?
Wol Euler: not I
Archmage Atlantis: In New Amsterdam, I met a man
Wol Euler: presumably DE -> EN is whispered to you alone
Archmage Atlantis: Later
Zon Kwan: hello
Wol Euler: hello zon
iwandertoo Resident: hi Zon
oO0Oo Resident: Zon :)
Zen Arado: de->en) yes like the only wonder if the machine follow me can be:)
Archmage Atlantis: New York came to be
Zen Arado: Hi Zon
Wol Euler: nearly :)
Zen Arado: yeh they never work perfectly
Wol Euler: given the number of times and ways in which we misunderstand each other, that is understandable :)
Wol Euler: hello bruce, steve
iwandertoo Resident: hi bruce, stevenaia
Zen Arado: yeh
Archmage Atlantis: what is to begin, has begun
stevenaia Michinaga: Morning and good day to all
oO0Oo Resident: bruce ! Steve :)
Zen Arado: Hi Bruce, Steve
oO0Oo Resident: hi santo
Bruce Mowbray: Good day, folks. (listens to catch the drift).
Zon Kwan: santo steve bruce
iwandertoo Resident: hi santoshima
Santoshima Resident: hi susan
oO0Oo Resident: Drifts to catch the listening Bruce
Santoshima Resident: and everyone
Wol Euler: hello santo
Santoshima Resident: :) wol
Bruce Mowbray: Hey, San!
Santoshima Resident: hey ther bruce :)
stevenaia Michinaga: I must be going shortly but wanted to say hello
iwandertoo Resident: I read a book, "The Art of Choosing" essentially speaking to how people, it seems, in general are happier when they have less to consider in their decision making process - or rather that sense of having the ability to choose all of those things
iwandertoo Resident: i was wondering if the team concurs or no?
Zen Arado: hmmm
Zon Kwan: nods
Bruce Mowbray: simper is better?
Zon Kwan: i am lazy
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, brain overload, I get that everytime I go down the breakfast cereal aisle
Bruce Mowbray: simpler*
Zon Kwan: simpler--better
Wol Euler: above a certain level, more choice brings frustration rather tahn extra goodness
Zen Arado: I am struggling with the reaisatin that we don't choose anything
iwandertoo Resident: hi eliza
Eliza Madrigal: peeping in for Susan's first hosting gig :) Nice to see you all
Zen Arado: Hi Eliza
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Susan :)
Zen Arado: :)
Santoshima Resident: hi eliza ~
Wol Euler: hello eliza
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Eliza
stevenaia Michinaga: count chococula, lucky charms or shreaded wheat... head exploads
oO0Oo Resident: ty for hosting Susan
iwandertoo Resident: (stevenaia is holding my hand :)
Zon Kwan: zen,, but we think we are
iwandertoo Resident: (you just cant see it
iwandertoo Resident: the book covers the marked difference in the western and eastern ways of thinking
Zen Arado: I think it is an illusion
Zon Kwan: and when we thibj we are choosin, its simpler to have clear choices
Eliza Madrigal: there was a wonderful TED talk on this, wondering if it is the same person...
iwandertoo Resident: family first, individual first
iwandertoo Resident: i think there are a few TedTalks on this
Wol Euler: barry schwarz?
Eliza Madrigal: described how difficult to be given choices you 'can't' have the info to evaluate, end of life etc
Bruce Mowbray: Yes, I listened to that TED talk.
Wol Euler: yes, several, by quite a few speakers
iwandertoo Resident: some from a strict biochem perspective, others psych...
Eliza Madrigal: mmm
Zen Arado: all of our interests, experiences, upbringing, genetics will make us decide one option at any moment
Zon Kwan: tesm but still we think we choose
Zen Arado: yeh we think we do
Zen Arado: we do in a way
iwandertoo Resident: i sensed when reading this, within me,an assessment of not wanting responsibility by those who wish to follow what is
Archmage Atlantis: u are choosen, and I must go.....Blessingns and Namste
Zon Kwan: if we would nto think we can choose--lifw would not be very fun
iwandertoo Resident: this doesnt seem "simple" to me
iwandertoo Resident: waves, Arch
Bruce Mowbray: bye, Arch!
Zen Arado: we only think we choose if we think we are separate from life
Eliza Madrigal: :)
Zon Kwan: yes.. but thats the game
--BELL--
iwandertoo Resident: sorry, not following Zen
Zon Kwan: if i play foorball game and i know what all players and i will choose, would i like to watch the game ?
Eliza Madrigal: wu wei :) Chris Martin this morning... an interview "You work had, but it is not hard work" about his 'calling'
Eliza Madrigal: *hard=had
Bruce Mowbray: hey, Korel.
Eliza Madrigal: Morning Korel :)
Zen Arado: we can't control life
Korel Laloix: Heya
Zen Arado: Hi Korel
iwandertoo Resident: hi korel
Zon Kwan: we can control the ball
stevenaia Michinaga: bye all
iwandertoo Resident: we can control ourselves (or should attempt to), no?
Zen Arado: why can't I choose to stay quiet :)
iwandertoo Resident: lol
Zon Kwan: lol
Eliza Madrigal: haha
Bruce Mowbray: :)
Zon Kwan: you choosed to speak, or did you ?
oO0Oo Resident: Hi korel
iwandertoo Resident: hehe
Zen Arado: don't seem to have any choice
Korel Laloix: I find that I am the most unquiet on the inside when I am the most quiet on the outside.
Bruce Mowbray: "how can I keep from singing...?" --- an old Quaker hymn.
Zen Arado: I have been thinking abut this for years
Zen Arado: since I read Hobbes
Zen Arado: Hi Xirana
iwandertoo Resident: hi xirana
Eliza Madrigal: Hi Xirana :)
Zon Kwan: life likes suprises
Xirana Oximoxi: hello everyone:)
Bruce Mowbray: hey, Xir.
Zon Kwan: no choice--no suprises
Xirana Oximoxi: :)
Zen Arado: other way arond Zon?
Wol Euler: hello xir, korel
iwandertoo Resident: life is endlessly surprising
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Wol:)
Zen Arado: we try to limit life by choosing
Zon Kwan: nods
Zon Kwan: but also to express
Zen Arado: thre problem is determinism
iwandertoo Resident: determinism?
Zen Arado: we think if we can't choose we will be pushed around by life
Zon Kwan: who are we
Zen Arado: our lives will be predetermined and mechanical
iwandertoo Resident: this seems a poor definition of choice
Eliza Madrigal: by 'events' zen?
Zen Arado: he he
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: Hi Xir
Zon Kwan: we are not apart from life
Xirana Oximoxi: hi Sam:)
Zen Arado: but that only arises if we think we are separate from life instead of part of it
iwandertoo Resident: i think we're all "pushed around" ...its how we cope - how we choose to deal with those variables
Zen Arado: yes Zon
Zon Kwan: so if that is treu..how can we be determined
Zen Arado: see what I am getting at?
Wol Euler nods.
Zen Arado: exactly Zon
Bruce Mowbray: perhaps better to go to tiny convenience store with very few options, that to go to big-box store (like Wal-Mart) with too many options?
Zen Arado: we are choosing but part of life
Bruce Mowbray: then*
Zon Kwan: yes
Wol Euler: that is in any case true, bruce!
Bruce Mowbray: than*
Zon Kwan: or life is choosing through us
Wol Euler: the local store supports your local economy. wallmart drains your city dry
Zen Arado: yes Zon
iwandertoo Resident: unless in the middle of no where, wol
Wol Euler: regardless of product choice :)
Zen Arado: embarassment of choice
iwandertoo Resident: then walmart has saved the folks out there
Korel Laloix: Wallmart just sucks anyway.
iwandertoo Resident: laughing
Zon Kwan: why embarassment ?
Wol Euler: just an expression, zon, something borrowed from French
Bruce Mowbray: happier folks at the neighborhood grocery than at Wal-Mart. . . ???
Eliza Madrigal: fun to look at lots of things... no need to buy them all
Zon Kwan: ah..dont know french..how embarrasing
Wol Euler: heheh
iwandertoo Resident: why would one be bothered by having the option to choose from 100 types of drinks vs. only having 5 choices?
Santoshima Resident: or just drink because one is thirsty
Zen Arado: I thought you were French Zon :)
Bruce Mowbray ponders 99-different-brands of beer (at Halifax retreat)- - -
Zon Kwan: oh
Zon Kwan: no
Eliza Madrigal: :)) Bruce
iwandertoo Resident: nothing has been taken away from the person if there are more options?
Bruce Mowbray: ;-)
Eliza Madrigal: and sushi pizza....
iwandertoo Resident: lol...true
Eliza Madrigal: choices run amuck
iwandertoo Resident: tika masala pizza
Korel Laloix: Sushi pizza?
Zon Kwan: if we want many choices..doesnt ot show we are greedy ?
Zen Arado: oh no sushi pizza here :(
Santoshima Resident: yuck
iwandertoo Resident: no...creative
Eliza Madrigal: haha, one would think... was quite good :)
Wol Euler: the annoyance for me is two-fold: firstly, that I see no worthwhile diference between the choices, and second that the store by displaying them all forces me to think about something that really doesn't interest me at all
Wol Euler: interseting to compare the choice of 100 soft drinks (annoying) to the choice of 5000 books (delightful) :)
iwandertoo Resident: the second argument makes sense to me from an economics standpoint, thank you
Santoshima Resident: we are brining the idea of "choice" to a consumer frame only
iwandertoo Resident: and bookstores are generally just books...
Zen Arado: yes
Korel Laloix: IN some cases yes, but in things like wine and certain bathroom items, I suuure want a choice.
iwandertoo Resident: nods
Santoshima Resident: how about choice of looking at one's mind
Wol Euler nods.
iwandertoo Resident: nods
Santoshima Resident: choice about how to behave in relation to others
Santoshima Resident: and oneself
Santoshima Resident: who cares about the "stuff"
Santoshima Resident: the real good are in relationship
Santoshima Resident: goods
Zon Kwan: to choose a woman, 2 options is not enough
Eliza Madrigal: :)
oO0Oo Resident: ::lively discussion:: :)
Korel Laloix: Depends on the two... smiles
Zen Arado: we choose in each present moment but everything that went before determines the choice I think
Zon Kwan: one m igth suffice
--BELL--
Xirana Oximoxi: for a lot of men ,either:)
iwandertoo Resident: but through introspection...the future choices may be different.
Zon Kwan: usually yes zen, but not necessarily
iwandertoo Resident: nods
Zen Arado: brb
Bruce Mowbray: it is the woman who chooses the man - leeting him think that the choice was his. . .
Bruce Mowbray: letting*
Zon Kwan: yes bruce,,i forgot
Zon Kwan: u r 100 % right
Korel Laloix: No comment.... smiles
Bruce Mowbray: what's the old saying. . . "He chased her until she let herself be caught"?
Santoshima Resident: hmmm, not quite what i had in mind ...
Zon Kwan: but we pretend not to notice that either
iwandertoo Resident: choose a woman
Bruce Mowbray: so, "choice" is what we choose NOT to notice?
iwandertoo Resident: that is a choice as well
Korel Laloix: Men don't notice quite a lot.
Bruce Mowbray: and it's easier to choose with less to ginore?
Santoshima Resident: choice has a great deal to do with responsibility for one's thoughts and actions
Bruce Mowbray: ignore*
Santoshima Resident: imho
Wol Euler nods.
Korel Laloix: Actually, there is a great body of reserach on the easiset numbers to chose from.
Zon Kwan: can we choose not to notice,,hm
Santoshima Resident: wb Arch
iwandertoo Resident: i think we develop filters that we suppress
Bruce Mowbray: wb, Arch.
Eliza Madrigal: unconscious patterning
Zon Kwan: do we choose when choice is made unconsciously ?
iwandertoo Resident: yes, and eventually something comes up and our attention is directed to surfacing these
Archmage Atlantis: Ain't no soul like an old soul
Korel Laloix: What does that mean Arch?
Archmage Atlantis: The chosen, Korel
Korel Laloix: Lost in language again I think.. can you explain a bit more please?
Zen Arado: the chosen few
Archmage Atlantis: Joshua fought
Archmage Atlantis: We do not deny
Archmage Atlantis: We face
iwandertoo Resident: all of us eventually face up
oO0Oo Resident: Excuse me I need to slip out... (((everybody))) :)
iwandertoo Resident: its just how much time is wasted in between
Zen Arado: bye Sam :)
Xirana Oximoxi: bye Sam :)
Wol Euler: bye sam, take care
Santoshima Resident: bye sam
Zon Kwan: bye O
Korel Laloix: ciao
Eliza Madrigal waves to ooO0Ooo
Archmage Atlantis: in 5 minute
Zen Arado: ha ha translator translated ciao as hello
iwandertoo Resident: :)
Archmage Atlantis: there will be a meetin
Zon Kwan: gtg, see ya
Wol Euler: bye zon
iwandertoo Resident: tc, zon
Zen Arado: bye Zon :)
Eliza Madrigal waves
Santoshima Resident: yes, me too, better wander over ~ thanks everyone
iwandertoo Resident: tc, santoshima
Eliza Madrigal: Thanks for a great discussion Susan, everyone
Zen Arado: ciao Santo
Korel Laloix: OK... off as well.
Wol Euler: bye all, see most of us again in anohter place :)
Korel Laloix: do na da go hv i
iwandertoo Resident: see you in the future
Archmage Atlantis: Wol
Archmage Atlantis: I ask you
Archmage Atlantis: why dash does not
Bruce Mowbray: walk in beauty today? MY choice!
iwandertoo Resident: :) rock on
iwandertoo Resident: always, Bruce
Xirana Oximoxi: see you soon :)
iwandertoo Resident: see you, Xirana
Zen Arado: bye Susan :)
--BELL--
iwandertoo Resident: see you, zen
iwandertoo Resident: :)