2008.12.09 19:00 - Anybody Can Be a Healer

Pema was Guardian on Call, Corvi's posted the log, and left the title to him..it was a rich conversation, Pema..I couldn't decide.

  

Pila Mulligan: hi Pema

Susi Alcott: hi Pema

Pema Pera: Hi Claire, Pila, Susi, Corvi!

Claire Beltran: Hello, everyone ^-^/

Pila Mulligan: hi Corvi

Pila Mulligan: hello Claire

Susi Alcott: hi Corv

Corvuscorva Nightfire grins at everyone.

Susi Alcott: how r you corv today ?

Pema Pera: Adelene used to be the greeter-guardian on Tuesday evenings, for a while, but now I have taken over again, since two slots became a bit much for her

Pema Pera: me? I'm hungry :-)

Pema Pera: haven't eaten anything, and it is noon now . . . .

Susi Alcott: :)

Pila Mulligan: hungry for mental nourishment?

Pema Pera: that too!

Pila Mulligan: oh

Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles. Pema, would you like me to take the log?

Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel!

Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel

Pema Pera: oh, that would be great, Corvi!

Tarmel Udimo: hi all

Corvuscorva Nightfire waves him on to food.

Pema Pera: I will probably be dragged out of my office to go to lunch, before the hour is up

Susi Alcott: hi Kira

Susi Alcott: hi Tarmel

Tarmel Udimo: :)

Pema Pera: We had a fun talk in the Kira Cafe, earlier, with Gilles speaking

Pema Pera: that started at 7 am for me, and I've been online since then . . . . sigh, modern life

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: tomoorw's talk on dreams and fantasy looks interesting also

Pema Pera: yes, Maxine is one of our oldtimers

Tarmel Udimo: yes too bad I'll be at work, work

Pema Pera: at PaB from the beginning, when we started at April 1

Pema Pera: sorry to hear that Tarmel

Tarmel Udimo: but I

Pila Mulligan: well Maxine's presentation be in vocie

Tarmel Udimo: ll be reading the transcripts:)

Pema Pera: Hi Kirkra, great to see you again!!

Pila Mulligan: hi Kirkra

Pema Pera: I think voice, but I'm not sure -- it's up to the speaker

Susi Alcott: hi Kirkra

Pila Mulligan: it was hard for me to do voice with Gilles due to low system resources -- some was garbled

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Kirkra!

Kirkra Caerndow: Hi there!

Tarmel Udimo: hi kirkra

Pema Pera: yes, in many ways I prefer text . . . .

Pema Pera: half a dozen good reasons!

Tarmel Udimo: I found it difficult to follow Gilies but I wouldn't mind us exploring something from your lecture pema

Tarmel Udimo: the 4 ways of seeing

Pema Pera: sure, shoot!

Tarmel Udimo: are you using the word seeing = being

Pema Pera: no, but I use the word "seeing" instead of "knowing"

Pema Pera: the word knowing has so much baggage . . . .

[Pema Pera: so if you ask me how to be more in touch with Being, I'd say the answer is in seeing more

Susi Alcott: I see :)

Pema Pera: you could say "waking up" -- hehe, Susi :-)

Pila Mulligan: I'll be

Pema Pera: I bet

Tarmel Udimo: and seeing implies experiencing

Pema Pera: well, that's tricky

Pema Pera: it can even go beyond experiencing !

Pema Pera: when we say experiencing, we imply an experiencer, an I

Pema Pera: and in fact we can drop the I . . . .

Pema Pera: and then we just have appearance (in my choice of words as labels)

Pema Pera: does that make some sense?

Susi Alcott: sure

Tarmel Udimo: yes except there are 'sensations' involved

Pila Mulligan: are you using these to describe an individual's expereince? or is there such a thing, is it all collectvie instead?

Tarmel Udimo: in the seeing

Pema Pera: beyond all dichotomies, ultimately, including the pair individual-collective

Pema Pera: <- Pila

Pila Mulligan: hecne drop the 'I', eh?

Pema Pera: yes

Pila Mulligan: but how about viewpoints?

Pema Pera: or accept the I as something you have, not something you are -- no need to repress or deny anything

Pema Pera: the challenge is ultimately to drop viewpoints too . . . .

Pila Mulligan: thinking of the blind men and the elpehant parable

Pema Pera: :-)

Pema Pera: and then being the elephant perhaps

Pila Mulligan: but how can we be conscious of everything, don;t we have to pay attention to smething?

Tarmel Udimo: except we want to have the ability to shift between these points of reference. one with the I and one without

Kirkra Caerndow: If you can pay attention to the fact that you're paying attention, then you're almost there

Pema Pera: *we* can't do much . . . .

Pema Pera: we can drop, stop . . ..

Pema Pera: and then something opens up, more and more . . . .

Pema Pera: and we can take it from there

Pema Pera: the 9-sec is a persistent, nagging invitation to keep stopping and dropping (^_^)

 Tarmel Udimo: this implies ultimately just existing

Pema Pera: even beyond that

Pema Pera: just appearing

Tarmel Udimo: unconditionally

Pema Pera: the notion of existing is an unnecessary extra

Pema Pera: which will hinder you

Kirkra Caerndow: It's the ability to stop worrying about the future or the past

Kirkra Caerndow: But without being selfish

Pema Pera: yes, no hope no fear

Kirkra Caerndow: Hope is seen as a positive force, but even that can be a bad thing, a distraction

 Pema Pera: yes!

Pema Pera: and accepting hope means accepting fear, as two sides of the same stick you accept

Tarmel Udimo: no emotions

Pema Pera: oh, sure, emotions are fine!

Pila Mulligan: is there a purpose in this apporach to existence?

Pema Pera: just don't cling to emotions

Pema Pera: but don't suppress them either

Tarmel Udimo: okay, still trying to define further

 Pema Pera: no purpose, you could say . . . but then we have to figure out what we mean by that -- no statetable purpose

Tarmel Udimo: I guess I am asking the same question pilsa just did

Pila Mulligan: not 'getting to heaven' or something like that

Tarmel Udimo: Pila sorry

[Pila Mulligan: :)

Pema Pera: but let me be clear: I present my understanding of Being, if others have a different understanding, I'd be happy to hear that too -- I claim no monopoly in any which way :-)

Kirkra Caerndow: Existance is certainly a good term

Pema Pera: we are already in "heaven" :)

Pila Mulligan: you noticed?

Pema Pera: but we keep our eyes closed for it

Kirkra Caerndow: Well, I wouldn't say that myself... Where we are is what we make of it

 Kirkra Caerndow: But yeah, I guess its true

Kirkra Caerndow: But there is still so much pain.. In a way, it seems like goodness it defined by its counterpart

Pema Pera: we are free -- so free in fact that we can consider ourselves "not free"

Tarmel Udimo: I am in complete fundimental agreement with everything you say pema

Tarmel Udimo: I am trying to bring into greater clarity

Pema Pera: yes, because of pain we need compassion, for sure

Tarmel Udimo: in a way we need signposts

[Pema Pera: and thanks, Tarmel, for probing -- we should probe more here, I think, all together, and come up with possible answers together

Pila Mulligan: it may be age, but I'm getting the opinion that much philsophical theory is actually describing our unwinnable contest with rigor mortis -- it is mostly physical

Pema Pera: I hope to write a book manuscript over Christmas -- and perhaps others will write their views

Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Book

Kirkra Caerndow: I'd be happy to contribute

[Tarmel Udimo: hummm will have a think about that

Pema Pera: philosophy is useless if it is not based on experience

Tarmel Udimo: and I can't help thinking that because we are all at different stages of seeing we in fact need different uses of the words

 Pema Pera: but Pila, if life is like a dream, perhaps the physical is not really real . . .

Pila Mulligan: real menaing?

Pema Pera: yes, we can shape and choose words together, Tarmel, in a process

 Pema Pera: real meaning, Pila?

Pila Mulligan: what would real mean in contrasting dreams with mundane waking

Tarmel Udimo: nice moves there

Pema Pera: I mean like in a movie, the movie story is a real story, but the movie in itself is a play of light

Pema Pera: so it may equally be that this realm we find ourselves in, RL, is like a play of light, so to speak

Pila Mulligan: yes

Pema Pera: we shouldn't "buy in" to the interpretation we grow up with

 Pema Pera: in fact "time" could be just an appearance, and not real

Pila Mulligan: yes

 Pema Pera: "rigor mortis" may not be rigorous at all :-)

Pila Mulligan: this is existentialism in modern clothers, isn't it?

Pema Pera: but all this has to be seen and felt

Pema Pera: speculation is useless and tiring

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pema Pera: so I prefer to talk about how we experience stopping

Pema Pera: but so hard to put in words . . . . .

Pema Pera: . .. . looking into someones eyes and feeling time drop away . . . .

Pema Pera: having the whole world come to a halt . .. .

Pema Pera: and yet being more dynamic than ever!

[Pema Pera: open, free, bubbling yet totally quiet . . . .

Tarmel Udimo: and do you expereince this 24X7

Kirkra Caerndow: It's like the feeling of love... But do you think you could feel that by yourself?

 Kirkra Caerndow: Could you feel that way without being selfish and introverted?

Pema Pera: no, on and off, but with increasing frequency over the years; with gaps that changed from months to days to minutes <- Tarmel

Pema Pera: not "by yourself" any love with "you" in it is possessive, in perhaps subtle ways

Pila Mulligan: consider this: the gaps can be remedied better by physical means than by mental

Pema Pera: just stop, and freedom will be yours -- love too, but not the "yours" of the "you" that you normally think you are, but you as Being

Pema Pera: can you say more, Pila?

Pila Mulligan: if you expereince bliss, the you will have a memory of it and want it to continue

Pila Mulligan: but it doesn't -- you get those gaps

Pema Pera: yes, that's the problem

Pila Mulligan: so you look for the answer

Pila Mulligan: rreading books, talking to pople, watchin Google

Pema Pera: (the problem: wanting to continue)

Pila Mulligan: but those are mental efforts

Pema Pera: yes

Pila Mulligan: the solution is a physical effort

Pema Pera: ah, another lunch gap for me :-)

 Pema Pera: sorry, knock on the door

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: enjoy :)

Tarmel Udimo: enjoy

Tarmel Udimo: I do agree with pila if i think I understand what he means

Pema Pera: btw, as a footnote: I don't mean to dominate these discussions in any way. I have some ideas and some experience, and if you have questions about those, I'd be more than happy to respond, but I am eager to hear from all of you too, what your ideas and experiences and interpretations are

Pema Pera: Sorry, Pila, that I don't have time to ask more right now.

Pema Pera: Next time!

Tarmel Udimo: bye

Pila Mulligan: have a blissful lunch

Kirkra Caerndow: Goodbye!

Tarmel Udimo: :-)

Susi Alcott: bye

Pema Pera: bey everybody -- haha, sure thing, sea weed, and tofu, and . . . don't let me get started

Pema Pera: c u all!

Kirkra Caerndow: Well, shall we continue?

Pila Mulligan: seaweed and tofu sounds really good :)

Kirkra Caerndow: Yeah it does

Tarmel Udimo: yeah

Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..yes, lets.

Tarmel Udimo: I remember reading somewhere that when faced with the void - it is only the body that has the strength to deal with it - reference to what pila was talking about

Pila Mulligan: the body is certainly the vehicle for people's lives

Tarmel Udimo: and is the closet expereince we have to life without mind

Pila Mulligan: I've met only half a dozen people aged 60-70 in SL, like myself, and at some point we usually share stories of mundane aches and pains

Pila Mulligan: the best solution I've found, if there is no disease or injury, is breathing and related exercises

 Tarmel Udimo: :-)

Pila Mulligan: and I suspect the same is true for younger people's aches

Pila Mulligan: mental, emotional and physical

Kirkra Caerndow: Mostly mental and emotional for the younger ones

Pila Mulligan: but a pretty good solution :)

Kirkra Caerndow: Well does anyone have any aches? Mental and emotional aches are very healthy to discuss

 Kirkra Caerndow: Physical might be too, but I'm not a very competent e-doctor

Tarmel Udimo: I think it goes deeper than that

Tarmel Udimo: I agree with you Pila and the breathing and moiving can take us to deeper understanding of what is in fact hurting

Tarmel Udimo: the body holds memory

Pila Mulligan: yes

Tarmel Udimo: we spend a lot of time trying to heal the mind when we need to also be healing the body

Susi Alcott: it also tells by pains...

 Tarmel Udimo: yes i think its a wonderful key

Pila Mulligan: and then we have those moments of bliss, when things just feel really good

Susi Alcott: as well it tells by different kind of illnesses....

Tarmel Udimo: yes and feeling good is great

Susi Alcott: sure only in case one allowes that to happen

Susi Alcott: meaning that 'telling'

 Pila Mulligan: and we compare them and want to understand why -- why this and that?

Tarmel Udimo: yes? and?

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: and good luck :)

Pila Mulligan: not to be trite

Tarmel Udimo: its kind of fun to try

 Pila Mulligan: for me the connection is often breath related

Tarmel Udimo: susi are you working with the "telling"

Tarmel Udimo: tarmel nods

[Susi Alcott: in case I understand your question the right way...I am...because I'm a healer

Tarmel Udimo: yes

Tarmel Udimo: lovely

Susi Alcott: ?

Tarmel Udimo: lovely to be a healer

Kirkra Caerndow: What kind of healer are you?

Tarmel Udimo: and thought you might expand on how the body tells us

Susi Alcott: you name it

Susi Alcott: the most telling of pain is that 'stop the doing which makes this pain'

Tarmel Udimo: can u say more

Kirkra Caerndow: I find it strange how common the idea of pain being a bad thing is

Susi Alcott: that's one example how human body 'tells' that there's something wrong in mind

Kirkra Caerndow: Exactly

Susi Alcott: just that most of the people prefere eat pain killers than listnes to the body

Kirkra Caerndow: pain killers and mood alterers

Susi Alcott: which are even worse

Pila Mulligan: instead of curing the problem

Susi Alcott: yes

Kirkra Caerndow: Of course, a drink coffee in the morning and gin at night so I'm not one to talk, but the idea is to keep a clean conscience and try not escape

 Susi Alcott: dont know so much of the gin, but the coffee sounds more than good

Tarmel Udimo: I usally like a nice glass of red myself :-)

[Susi Alcott: that creates motions; so that's good too

Susi Alcott: I dont myself use any kind of, but I understand that they r healthy to most of the people

Susi Alcott: but...you said something about 'lovely to be a healer'...well...anybody can be...

Susi Alcott: as you connected the issue; Love

Tarmel Udimo: true and in fact I often try to heal myslef before I see someone else

Tarmel Udimo: but not all of us spend our days healing...

Susi Alcott: understand

 Susi Alcott: well; I do

Pila Mulligan: perhaps in a sense we do, self-healing :)

Susi Alcott: ah; to that there's many good ways

Tarmel Udimo: yes which is why I think its lovely - susi

Susi Alcott: for example to have gin or red wine :)

Pila Mulligan: someone mentioned reservatrol (sp? here recently, a healthly component of wine

Susi Alcott: than I say thank you

Tarmel Udimo: :-)

Tarmel Udimo: reservatrol?

 Pila Mulligan: it has a chemcial name, but that is a popular name I believe

Pila Mulligan: an isolated component of wine

Susi Alcott: to eat chocolate is also very healthy 'in my book', even there's much speeches that sugar is bad

Pila Mulligan: mis-spelled I suspect

Pila Mulligan: I love choclate

Kirkra Caerndow: The point is, though, using other things to influence yourself and your feelings

Tarmel Udimo: hummm chocolate

Susi Alcott: hoping you to let yourself to eat it well then

Pila Mulligan: thanks doc :) encouragement is welcome

Tarmel Udimo: as long as you are aware kirka

Susi Alcott: well Pila; you said something about aches

Tarmel Udimo: that you are using things to stimulate you

Pila Mulligan: yes

Susi Alcott: you'de like to tell if you have ?

Pila Mulligan: I call mine rigor mortis --just muscles that don't move as freely as they once did

Kirkra Caerndow: Well that's kind of morbid!

Susi Alcott: do you know the reason to that ?

 Pila Mulligan: not really, at least not intentionally -- I do it jokingly because that is where they will wind up

 Pila Mulligan: as to mobidity

[Kirkra Caerndow: All of us will wind up that way

Pila Mulligan: as to muscles, I think they just get tired

Kirkra Caerndow: Except maybe me because I'm awesome like tat

Pila Mulligan: isn't there a chemical that allows our muscles to loosen and relax?

Kirkra Caerndow: Of course, there are many chemicals

Susi Alcott: yes there is

Pila Mulligan: I thnk older people may have less of that chemcial

Susi Alcott: I wish we can meet soon again Pila

Pila Mulligan: thnak you Susi -- and yet it seems yoga or breathing exercises can do wonders with those aches

Susi Alcott: I need to go , but ...want to say this...

Corvuscorva Nightfire: I have to go...would someone send me any more that is said?

Susi Alcott: you r very right with that too

Pila Mulligan: yes Corvi

Claire Beltran: I think I must go, too... I'm sorry I was so silent.

Pila Mulligan: bye to those leaving

Tarmel Udimo: bye

Claire Beltran: Bye! ^-^/

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Thank you, Pila.

 Susi Alcott: _/!\_

Pila Mulligan: aloha

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Aloha.

Susi Alcott: wishing good time to all

Susi Alcott: was nice to talk

Pila Mulligan: yes it has been

Pila reported that nothing more was said