2011.10.07 07:00 - Title goes here

The Guardian for this meeting was Lucinda Lavender. The comments are by Lucinda Lavender.

Lucinda Lavender: have a great day!
Eliza Madrigal: You too!! ((((( )))))
Dash Earthboy: what's up today?
Korel Laloix: Just got into work so in and out.
Lucinda Lavender: Just waking up...
Korel Laloix: I seem to be the only one in the office today....
Dash Earthboy: ah, Korel, I was just laid off on Wed morn
Dash Earthboy: one of over 100
Korel Laloix: Ouch.
Lucinda Lavender: wow Dash!
Korel Laloix: Sorry to hear that D..... anything else lining up for you?
Dash Earthboy: not yet Korel
Korel Laloix: Prayers and thoughts in your way.
Lucinda Lavender: yes...
Dash Earthboy: the company was reduced from 152 to 48 in a flash
Korel Laloix: Ouch for a lot of people it sounds like.
Dash Earthboy: yah, my whole team including managers
Lucinda Lavender: Hi susan, Sophia too...did not see you:)
Dash Earthboy: hey Susan
Korel Laloix: It looks like we are going to be taking in one of grandama's sons for a while until something lines up for him.
SophiaSharon Larnia: hello and good morning
iwandertoo Resident: hi luci, dashkorel, ssl
Alfred Kelberry: hi :)
Dash Earthboy: hey SSL
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Boxy:)
Korel Laloix: Heya
Alfred Kelberry: neko girl :)
Dash Earthboy: hey Alf
Dash Earthboy: hey SSL
FcSeeker Resident: Hi all
Dash Earthboy: hey Fc
Alfred Kelberry: oh! sharon :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Fc
Alfred Kelberry: a bird from heaven :)
Lucinda Lavender: Hi fc:)
SophiaSharon Larnia: a moth? lolol
FcSeeker Resident: hi Korel Luci boxy Dash
Alfred Kelberry: cute :)
Lucinda Lavender: Dash...what kind of work were you doing?
iwandertoo Resident: hi fc, boxy
Dash Earthboy: it became sales instead of customer service/support almost immediately
FcSeeker Resident: hi Susan
Lucinda Lavender: I have a slow connection these day...
iwandertoo Resident: :(
Dash Earthboy: and in remote area 2x my agreed max commute
Dash Earthboy: was ready to quit anyway...so layoff is really a blessing
Lucinda Lavender: ah...
FcSeeker Resident: Hello san
Dash Earthboy: hey San
Santoshima Resident: hell
Dash Earthboy: :)
SophiaSharon Larnia waits for an 'o' and wonders if that was a comment :)
Dash Earthboy: :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
Santoshima Resident: o
Santoshima Resident: tpo
Santoshima Resident: typo
Alfred Kelberry: mipsrint
SophiaSharon Larnia: i figured, just teasing
Alfred Kelberry: tust jeasing
Santoshima Resident: lag on the screen tpe
Alfred Kelberry: *likes to remap letters*
Lucinda Lavender: Hi San...same for me
FcSeeker Resident: ?
SophiaSharon Larnia: can gets you in troubles boxy
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: Any topics for today?
Korel Laloix: Had an interesting discussion on the stigma of disease in my class this morning.
FcSeeker Resident: hi Kavi
SophiaSharon Larnia: hi Kavi :)
Kavi01 Resident: hello every1
Kavi01 Resident: :)
Dash Earthboy: yah, stigma aggravates the situation huh Korel?
Korel Laloix: Heya
Dash Earthboy: hey Kavi
Lucinda Lavender: Hi Kavi...welcom
Kavi01 Resident: any particular subject so far?
iwandertoo Resident: stigma of disease
Korel Laloix: Can agrivate, can keep people from seeking treatment,
Lucinda Lavender: just have asked that and Korel mentioned one...
Kavi01 Resident: interesting subject indeed
Korel Laloix: can keep the case work from developing.
Korel Laloix: But, stigma can also be a motivator to change behavior.
Kavi01 Resident: hmmm must b laggy on my end
Santoshima Resident: explain that last sentence, Korel? i don't know the context so don't know the meaning?
Kavi01 Resident: indeed korel
Kavi01 Resident: one can change to fight it or to embrace it
Korel Laloix: Social pressurs can keep peopfe from doing things that can lead to disease.
Santoshima Resident: and case work? what do you mean?
Korel Laloix: Social pressure to be thin.
Kavi01 Resident: mental illness perhaps?
Kavi01 Resident: true
Korel Laloix: As in developing an epidemiological case on the disease.
Santoshima Resident: ah
FcSeeker Resident: psychiatists says that there is no mental illness...allthough they can list immediately many of 'titles' to such...
Korel Laloix: Or like the cultural pressure for circumcision
Korel Laloix: Which reserarch suggests reduces the chance for certain STDs.
Dash Earthboy: yah
Korel Laloix: INtersting sociological study I think.
Korel Laloix: But it does make you think.... someone is already suffering, then we socialy isolate them typicaly.
Dash Earthboy: yah
Kavi01 Resident: in essence social pressure, real or perceived can make one assume certain things as goals or expectations as true and yes i believe that pressure could lead to illness or at least a general sensation ofmalaise
Korel Laloix: But on the other side, quarteen can be very effective.
Dash Earthboy: quarantine is effective for contagion to an extent
Dash Earthboy: but quarantine requires many resources to ensure
Korel Laloix: Very true.
Lucinda Lavender: This discussion of "case" reminds me that I have jury duty next weekk
Dash Earthboy: congrats Luci :)
Korel Laloix: Never been called for that.
Kavi01 Resident: wow that must b quite interesting
Dash Earthboy: time to be judgemental :)
Lucinda Lavender: long time since I did it in the 80's
Alfred Kelberry: drop it, luci :)
Lucinda Lavender: I am one who waits to decide:)
FcSeeker Resident: or to set the accused one to be free if s/he is innocent
Lucinda Lavender: gathering more info...
Kavi01 Resident: i would suck at jury duty at this time lol
Alfred Kelberry: what time is it?
Kavi01 Resident: still shaking away the weight of perception
Lucinda Lavender: why is that Kavi
Dash Earthboy: right Fc, judgement works both ways :)
SophiaSharon Larnia: bye for now all
Dash Earthboy: bye SSL
Kavi01 Resident: well perception is gripping me bad right now and somehow judgemental has turned into a nasty word in my vocabulary
SophiaSharon Larnia: take care
FcSeeker Resident: waves to SophiaSharon
Kavi01 Resident: by sophia
Lucinda Lavender: by SSL...
Kavi01 Resident: bye*
Alfred Kelberry: kavi, hard not to be
FcSeeker Resident: sorry I got the call
FcSeeker Resident: takes a humble bow
FcSeeker Resident: namaste
Dash Earthboy: bye Fc
Alfred Kelberry: the call of floating hearts! :)
Lucinda Lavender: curious kavi...can you say more about the perception?
Kavi01 Resident: indeed ive been meditating on the subject a lot and well i find it hard
Lucinda Lavender: namaste fc
Kavi01 Resident: as i realize just how much i assume
Kavi01 Resident: how much is left to pure faith and belief
Dash Earthboy: sry, must also leave at this time...pax et bonum
Kavi01 Resident: namaste fc
Kavi01 Resident: l8r dash
Lucinda Lavender: pax Dash:)
--BELL--
Lucinda Lavender: I will have to leave a tiny bit before the hour...just thinking ahead...
Lucinda Lavender: will post the log tho:)
Alfred Kelberry: post well, luci :)
Kavi01 Resident: i was reading the other day about some modern phylosopher whos name currently escapes me. After giving a conference some1 approached him and mentioned about people in the past being stupid assuming that the earth was flat. He answered by saying "I wonder if it would look different if it was!". From that i derive that our knowledge is mostly based on what we believe even if it is in blind faith
Korel Laloix: I don't think so.
Korel Laloix: I think we put together an impression of the word and go with that until we are shown otherwise.
Alfred Kelberry: it's based on what currently works
Kavi01 Resident: in my case my whole life has been based on a personal belief system which i currently assume was wrong thus i stand at a very confusing phase
Korel Laloix: It isn ot being stupid, you have to anchor yourself somewhere to progress.
Kavi01 Resident: where i no longer know what to belief
Kavi01 Resident: believe*
Lucinda Lavender: ah...this sounds challenging
Alfred Kelberry: kavi, actually, there's still the flat earth society present :)
Kavi01 Resident: my shoulds and shouldnts i now understand have been based on assumptions and expectations i took as mine though they come from different sources
Kavi01 Resident: yes indeed
Alfred Kelberry: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_Earth_Society
Kavi01 Resident: in certain respects my flat earth was scattered away and the status quo alongside with it
Kavi01 Resident: oh believe me it is
Kavi01 Resident: tons of anguish as the brain desperately seeks something "true" to grasp to
Lucinda Lavender: brb...chickens...
Alfred Kelberry: hens!
Kavi01 Resident: here chickie chikie
Alfred Kelberry: crave for luci's attention :)
iwandertoo Resident: best to everyone
Kavi01 Resident: prob think luci is mom hen
Kavi01 Resident: bye susan
Korel Laloix: ciao
Kavi01 Resident: in a way i find that experience is tricky and sometimes misleading
Kavi01 Resident: to make things worse, i noticed
Kavi01 Resident: that i assume certain things
Korel Laloix: Why is that bad?
Kavi01 Resident: that i believe true
Kavi01 Resident: where based on some1 elses experience and interpretation
Kavi01 Resident: a huge leap of faith if u ask me
Korel Laloix: YOu can't be perfect.... just look at the miss steps as a learning expereince.
Kavi01 Resident: and happens in all walks of life
Kavi01 Resident: well i believe its bad once u base your happiness
Kavi01 Resident: on acheiving those expectations
Kavi01 Resident: and believing said truths
Korel Laloix: I am perfectly happy with the idea that someone else a while back developed a really good model of how bactieria work.
Kavi01 Resident: i thus loose control over my own life
Kavi01 Resident: indeed korel
Kavi01 Resident: we assume models if they fit the perceived data
Kavi01 Resident: if they somehow explain life
Kavi01 Resident: yet that doesnt make em true
Kavi01 Resident: and u could end up being in a flat earth
Korel Laloix: In my relgiious beleife, we are asked to question everything.
Korel Laloix: But you have to live your life.
Kavi01 Resident: same here though i finaly think i acheived the questioning stage
Kavi01 Resident: :)
Korel Laloix: Each of us can't rediscover gravity and chocolate in our lives... msiles
Kavi01 Resident: :)
Kavi01 Resident: like for example i have this expectation
Kavi01 Resident: i wish to feel loved
Kavi01 Resident: until i realized
Kavi01 Resident: i truly dont know what that means
Kavi01 Resident: i mean i get the constituent parts like affection and such
Korel Laloix: If you figure that out, I want an invite to your NObel pize cerimony.
Kavi01 Resident: but then how do u know u are loved?
Kavi01 Resident: lol
Kavi01 Resident: no nobel prize in my sights
Kavi01 Resident: just content and easy happiness
Korel Laloix: I think a better question and goal is to want to love, not be loved.
Kavi01 Resident: to let go of anguish
Lucinda Lavender: wow...what an interesting question...
Kavi01 Resident: yes and that sounds correct
Korel Laloix: I think if you can do the loving part first, you will know what the to be loved thing means.
Korel Laloix: brb
Kavi01 Resident: is it learned
Kavi01 Resident: but who gives that expectation
Kavi01 Resident: is it yours
Kavi01 Resident: just assumed?
Lucinda Lavender: hi druth...
druth Vlodovic: hey
Kavi01 Resident: hello druth
Kavi01 Resident: tyt korel
Kavi01 Resident: hmm tons of chatlag
Kavi01 Resident: lol
--BELL--
Korel Laloix: Darn RL.
Kavi01 Resident: i wonder if the human brain can truly achieve a state of just living without any expectation, without judgement either internal or external.
Kavi01 Resident: judgement gives entry to grief and sadness
Kavi01 Resident: anger , etc
Kavi01 Resident: no expectations destroy the foundations of judgement
druth Vlodovic: there is a subtle difference between judging and judgemental
druth Vlodovic: to thrive we use heuristics, but values don't need to be added
Korel Laloix: I tink there is a big difference.
Kavi01 Resident: true indeed
Kavi01 Resident: anais nin once said "We don't see things as they are, we see things as we are" but are we ourselves or am i just a bundle of gathered expectations and goals?
Korel Laloix: Whyou can't you be all that?
Kavi01 Resident: that is to say do i lead my life according to what the rest of the world would lead me to believe is expected?
druth Vlodovic: being aware of your expectations and their sources can help you see more clearly
Kavi01 Resident: indeed yet the issue at least for me is that i have noticed none of my expectations where truly mine
Kavi01 Resident: i kinda adopted them lol and then made em "mine"
Korel Laloix: But having more clarity does not invalidate those expecations.
druth Vlodovic: going through your expectations and deciding which to keep can be, uncomfortable :)
Kavi01 Resident: the only thing ive found so far to release the stress is to simply try and relax and assume things as they "are" and not to wish them being different
Kavi01 Resident: in a way i seek no longer to care if they are real or not
Kavi01 Resident: just to make the expectations no longer matter anymore
Lucinda Lavender: ...wow
Kavi01 Resident: for example if money didnt matter would you feel anguish out of not having it?
Kavi01 Resident: same for everything else
Kavi01 Resident: accept life as it is
Kavi01 Resident: right now
Kavi01 Resident: keep in the present
Lucinda Lavender: powerful words...
Kavi01 Resident: no past to regret no future to seek
Kavi01 Resident: true content
Kavi01 Resident: walking a thin line to avoid nihilism
Kavi01 Resident: hope thats the word in english lol
druth Vlodovic: carried too far it becomes unsustainable, you need a basis from which to approach the world
Lucinda Lavender: wb Korel!
Kavi01 Resident: true druth
Kavi01 Resident: i might just be speaking from where i stand
druth Vlodovic: I found that creating an artificial basis helped me walk through it without being blinded (much)
Kavi01 Resident: im actively destroying my belief system to try and build anew
druth Vlodovic: what is your old belief system?
Kavi01 Resident: the one my parents and peers gave to me
Kavi01 Resident: and that i chose to adopt
Korel Laloix: Why do that?
Kavi01 Resident: because i found i over reacted to my old scheme
Kavi01 Resident: acted out of fear
Kavi01 Resident: and nearly destroyed every1 around me
Kavi01 Resident: all based on belief
Kavi01 Resident: i chose introspection now
Lucinda Lavender: becoming to forceful with the fear?
Kavi01 Resident: on stopping assumption
Kavi01 Resident: i was overpowered by it
Kavi01 Resident: i betrayed those around me and indeed betrayed myself
Korel Laloix: I did the same thing.
Korel Laloix: I took a complete change of direction from the way I was brought up.
Kavi01 Resident: found some good exercises at www.pathwaytohappiness.com
Kavi01 Resident: but even if they are good the fact of currently being in transition between belief systems is quite anguishing
Korel Laloix: It was more of an exploration thing for me.
Kavi01 Resident: thus the need to accept life as it is
Korel Laloix: It was a very distrubing time for sure.
Kavi01 Resident: the jury is still out on me on how long it will take
Korel Laloix: For me it was about 2 years to get settled.
Kavi01 Resident: but i reached a point where i questioned everything and i mean everything
Lucinda Lavender: Have a good day everyone...may the anguish dissipate...and I will log later...
Korel Laloix: ciao
Kavi01 Resident: cya lucinda
druth Vlodovic: have fun luci
Kavi01 Resident: take care
Kavi01 Resident: and mind the chickies
Lucinda Lavender: they are take care of...cats too:)
Lucinda Lavender: now to work....
Kavi01 Resident: i find it amazing the things we can do out of fear
--BELL--
Kavi01 Resident: out of assumption
Kavi01 Resident: ugh time for my meeting too
Kavi01 Resident: nice chatting with u guys
Kavi01 Resident: kinda needed it
Kavi01 Resident: :)
Korel Laloix: NO worries
druth Vlodovic: have a good meeting kavi
Kavi01 Resident: namaste 2 all _/*\_
druth Vlodovic: what I've often found disturbing is how often I keep tripping over the same answers time and again
Korel Laloix: Maybe you are not looking at the right questions.
druth Vlodovic: "relax" "have fun" "be good to others" "be good to yourself" "accept things as they come"
druth Vlodovic: what questions do you have korel?
Korel Laloix: I had a lot of quetions liek he had, in terms of figuring out if what my mom taught me were true or reasonable.
druth Vlodovic: we are designed to "believe in" finding out our parents are human is a difficult part of "growing up"
Korel Laloix: I tihnk the big thing I questioned was the negativity.
Alfred Kelberry: ah, 3 of us left :)
druth Vlodovic: flesh and cardboard :)
Alfred Kelberry: :)
druth Vlodovic: did your partents teach you "truth" boxy?
Alfred Kelberry: no idea
druth Vlodovic: my dad taught me the most through jokes
Alfred Kelberry: do share some :)
druth Vlodovic: "everything may not be as it seems, question it" :)
Alfred Kelberry: good one
druth Vlodovic: oh, just the type, puns, sarcasm turning things on their heads
druth Vlodovic: you get in the habit of not only looking to see if it "is true" but laughing out loud when you approach the answer
Alfred Kelberry: playful investigation :)
druth Vlodovic: laughter is a peculiar tonic
Korel Laloix: Too close to crying in those sorts of moods though.
druth Vlodovic: one reason why "peculiar" :)
druth Vlodovic: ever hear people laught at a horror movie?
Alfred Kelberry: i have
Korel Laloix: I don't go see horror movies.
Alfred Kelberry: they crack jokes too :)
druth Vlodovic: neither do I, much
druth Vlodovic: well, it is also a defensive reaction
druth Vlodovic: I've probably told this story before
druth Vlodovic: a teacher wanted to teach my grade 10 class about war
Alfred Kelberry: in that respect, i think marines in iraq are a better example
druth Vlodovic: so he was showing us a video
druth Vlodovic: suddenly up popped that picture of the girl with her clothes burned off by napalm
druth Vlodovic: so everybody laughed
druth Vlodovic: the teacher was horrified
Alfred Kelberry: ah, yea
druth Vlodovic: I thought "what do you expect?"
druth Vlodovic: an extreme example I'm afraid
druth Vlodovic: "marines"?
Alfred Kelberry: ouch
Alfred Kelberry: hmm, the server is fine. could be sl.
--BELL--
druth Vlodovic: laughter doesn't make things better, it shakes things up and makes them new and bearable
druth Vlodovic: hugs make things better :)
Alfred Kelberry: druth, yea. laughter as a coping mechanism: kaboom. ha! watch that pile of bodies.
druth Vlodovic: joy is different, and much harder to learn
Alfred Kelberry: i think it's rather natural and easy
druth Vlodovic: lucky box :)
Alfred Kelberry: isn't it for most people?
druth Vlodovic: no
druth Vlodovic: we are taught early that joy is a bad thing
Alfred Kelberry: i mean, at least once a day we all have a joyful minute
Korel Laloix: There was pretty much no joy in my house growing up.
druth Vlodovic: they want up to mix joy with guilt
Korel Laloix: The place still depresses me going back.
Alfred Kelberry: aww
Alfred Kelberry: *pats kori's back*
druth Vlodovic: joy renews us
Korel Laloix: I just don't go.
druth Vlodovic: I used to imagine myself standing on the edge of a cliff in a windstorm, toes just over the edge
druth Vlodovic: sometimes I have the courage to just take the extra step :)
Alfred Kelberry: a jump to freedom in slow motion :)
druth Vlodovic: sure you get hurt that way, quite often, but you get better
druth Vlodovic: ah, no slow motion for me, that would imply control
druth Vlodovic: constraint
Alfred Kelberry: um... i just thought it'd be a nice picture :)
druth Vlodovic: the cliff is "safe" a great generator of fear
Alfred Kelberry: but, the cliff doesn't care really
Alfred Kelberry: it's you
Korel Laloix: I got very close to suiside a couple of times.
Korel Laloix: Scary looking back.
Alfred Kelberry: what we fear does not have control over us. it's the fear that has it.
Alfred Kelberry: ouch
Korel Laloix: But it does change your persepctive when things get that bad..
Alfred Kelberry: hmm
Alfred Kelberry: i'd think so
druth Vlodovic: I decided a long time ago that I wouldn't do that, a decision I've regretted a lot
druth Vlodovic: lol, but on the upside I'm still here
Korel Laloix: OK. on that uplifting note. I am of to explore.
Alfred Kelberry: heh
Alfred Kelberry: glad you're both here :)
druth Vlodovic: ah, have fun, I'll try not to be such a downer next time korel
Korel Laloix: THe first time, I adopted the..... I won't let her win attitude.
Korel Laloix: The second time I moved out.
Korel Laloix: Take care.
druth Vlodovic: courage :)
druth Vlodovic: I was trying to imagine joy-fill
druth Vlodovic: lol
druth Vlodovic: what makes you joyful once a day?
druth Vlodovic: anything experience to it's fullest
druth Vlodovic: lol
druth Vlodovic: have fun