2008.12.12 13:00 - Velocity is Tough

The guardian for this session was Solobill, the comments are his.

I arrived at the Pavilion to find Pila and Scathack already there.

Solobill Laville: Hi, Pila
Pila Mulligan: hi Solobill
Pila Mulligan: how are you?
Solobill Laville: Aloha!
Solobill Laville: fine, thanks, and you?
Pila Mulligan: fine also, thanks
Solobill Laville: Hi, Scath
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Solobill
Pila Mulligan: hi Scathach
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Pila
Solobill Laville: How are you today, Scathach?
Scathach Rhiadra: fine ty:)
Scathach Rhiadra: and you?
Solobill Laville: Good, thanks
Solobill Laville: Have you been exploring any type of PaB practice?
Solobill Laville: (question to either of you) :)
Scathach Rhiadra: well, I've been trying to do the 9 sec practice with some regularity
Solobill Laville: great
Scathach Rhiadra: but its difficult to remember every 15 mins:)
Solobill Laville: ah, would you like to do it every 15 minutes?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, its such a short time, and it does 'centre 'you so to speak
Solobill Laville: Are you at a computer most of the day?
Scathach Rhiadra: yes, and surrounded by people
Solobill Laville: hmmm...was going to suggest a mindful clock program, but would it bother the other folks...
Solobill Laville: http://www.stillwatermpc.org/clock.htm
Solobill Laville: I use one, but i didn't for a long time
Scathach Rhiadra: that is a good idea, but our computers are very locked-down for security, can't install programs
Solobill Laville: ahhh

Tarmel joins us, quickly followed by Ramana, a first-timer and friend of Pila's.

Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel
Solobill Laville: Hi, Tarmel
Scathach Rhiadra: Hi Tarmel
Tarmel Udimo: hi all
Pila Mulligan: Ramana is a good friend from SL
Solobill Laville: We were just chatting about trying to maintain 15 minutes without a clock!
Ramana Sweetwater: Good evening, good morning, wherever you are sitting :)
Solobill Laville: Welcome, Ramana
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Ramana
Tarmel Udimo: hi ramana
Solobill Laville: We publish our chats to the internet, are you OK with that?
Solobill Laville: (guess I should ask if you've been here before first...)
Ramana Sweetwater: No problem, if you look my first life page on my profile you see I am only one
Solobill Laville reads and smiles
Pila Mulligan: Ramana, part of the PlayasBeing group's method is to pause for 9 seconds every fifteen minutes to reflect on a meditative condition, during the day
Ramana Sweetwater: well, I guess I'll be able to do that ;)
Solobill Laville: i was just saying that I use a Mindful Clock on my laptop to help me be every 15.. :)
Solobill Laville: Though I didn't used to want that regularity, personally
Ramana Sweetwater: To be honest, it sounds like a nice idea, when I finally understood it from the notecard, but it also seems somehow as a kind of enforcement to .... spontaneity?
Solobill Laville: ah, how so, Ram?
Ramana Sweetwater: well, I would spent a lot of time concentrating on that, as it sounds to me how you explain that with your clock. but ok. I will first give it a try .
Tarmel Udimo: my understanding was that you didn't need to watch the clock, I think this
Tarmel Udimo: is perhaps something that has deveveloped as a longing to do this on solo's part

Wol joins us next.

Pila Mulligan: hello Wol
Solobill Laville: Hey, Wol
Wol Euler: hello everyone
Solobill Laville: Yes, to clarify it all a bit
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Wol
Ramana Sweetwater: Hello Wol
Solobill Laville: The general idea is to stop, drop what you have, and see what is left
Tarmel Udimo: hey wol, long time no see:)
Wol Euler: heheeh
Solobill Laville: every 15 minutes, for 9 seconds
Solobill Laville: But, of course whatever feels right for you is what is best
Ramana Sweetwater: ok, let me give you an example of what I did the last weeks for ~80 hours a week: SL-scripting.
Solobill Laville: eee
Solobill Laville: :)
Wol Euler: mm?
Wol Euler: .
Ramana Sweetwater: So when I need to think 4 times an hour about a pause, that is sure not in rhythm with my personal timing of creative thinking
Solobill Laville: Right
Wol Euler: then don't do it four times an hour :)
Wol Euler: you do take pauses, though?
Solobill Laville: But the idea is not to really think, or yes, as you wish to
Wol Euler: naturally occuring, for tea or coffee or looking out the window?

Yes, Wol! It is really not so much WHAT you do, but primarily THAT you do, with perhaps a tinch of HOW you do...But really, just making the leap to DO at all with a bit of commitment is significant.

Ramana Sweetwater: But please excuse my opposition, basically I appreciate such mental experiments! Sometimes only a pause every two hours, yes
Wol Euler: right, so do it then :)
Solobill Laville: Well, I think it is a great topic for discussion...that
Ramana Sweetwater: I will!
Wol Euler: that's how I do it too.
Solobill Laville: The "transition" into and re-entry from, this type of practice, during working activity
Tarmel Udimo: I do it when ever I remember and sometimes I purposefully trigger it often even within the 15min cycle
Ramana Sweetwater: Maybe it could be expanded for the more advanced apprentices: they must log out from SL hahaha
Tarmel Udimo: smile
Solobill Laville: :)

Tarmel shared her practice with us.

Tarmel Udimo: what I have noticed which I am enjoying is that when I am doing 9 secs
Tarmel Udimo: the first thing that happens now is that my body takes a few very deep breaths
Tarmel Udimo: which makes the shift easier and brings into perspective about what we're doing here in the first place
Solobill Laville nods
Pila Mulligan: I am retired, I tend to doze off about every 15 minutes
Solobill Laville: hehe
Tarmel Udimo: smiles
Tarmel Udimo: this automatic breathing by the body is telling me something about the process
Ramana Sweetwater: I am smoker, in big danger to use the 9 secs to light a cigarette ;)
Solobill Laville: What do you think the breathing is telling you Tarmel?
Tarmel Udimo: still working on it, but it feels that the 9 secs are nourishing us in away perhaps
Tarmel Udimo: that we don't even recognise because we stay so focused on the mind....
Solobill Laville: So your breathing allows you to un-focus on the mind?
Tarmel Udimo: yes but it feels deeper than that
Pila Mulligan: Baba Muktananda, a guru, once said 'velocity is tough' -- referring, I think to the compelling pace of a work day versus a still internal condition
Solobill Laville: yes, that integration is a primary practice of mine
Tarmel Udimo: the breathing?
Solobill Laville: but subtle changes can be profound
Solobill Laville: Yes, to both what you said (Tarmel) and Pila's comment
Solobill Laville: Since Wednesday I've been doing a "10 breaths" practice
Solobill Laville: Every 15 minutes (as possible)
Wol Euler: m?
Pila Mulligan: nice idea Solo
Pila Mulligan: more than 9 seconds
Solobill Laville: Takes about 45 seconds...
Tarmel Udimo: and the practice?
Solobill Laville: Well, the same as my longer meditiations
Solobill Laville: Kind of a mini-shikan taza
Solobill Laville: Unifying body and mind
Solobill Laville: Letting go and focusing on no-thought
Solobill Laville: Very tough at work ;)

I posted a brief description to the wiki: http://playasbeing.wik.is/index.php?title=Guardians%27_Contributions/Solobill/Solo%27s_PaB_-_10_Breaths

Ramana Sweetwater: I have a cat who often crosses my keyboard, not every 15min, but maybe every half an hour, so I have an idea of this interruption of the mental routine too
Solobill Laville: That could be a work timer, Ram!
Solobill Laville: Your Mindful Cat
Wol Euler: mmhmm
Tarmel Udimo: cats very intuitive helping you perhaps :)
Ramana Sweetwater: he is pure nature and finds my work very artificial, needs to bring me back to my body base
Wol Euler smiles
Tarmel Udimo: without the body we are nothing, no point just having a mind - in fact some would argue its is even more precious
Ramana Sweetwater: many say, it was all in the mind though...
Tarmel Udimo: of course but the body is an amazing manifestation of this Mind
Ramana Sweetwater: ah ok, also a good view
Scathach Rhiadra: what about people who are paralized from the neck down?
Pila Mulligan: these exercises can also help them, Scath
Pila Mulligan: I have seen it
Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree
Tarmel Udimo: and its not about holding up the body as better like body builders or anything
Scathach Rhiadra: I was thinking of their view of the body
Tarmel Udimo: but the body can teach us
Pila Mulligan: have you ever heard an amputee complain about an itch on their mssing limb? it happens
Ramana Sweetwater: I know that from missing teeth!
Tarmel Udimo: yes this would be very big learning and I am grateful to not have to have this as part of this life's learning
Pila Mulligan: consciousness retains an image of the body, even when it does not function or parts are not there
Tarmel Udimo: does this go on forever?
Pila Mulligan: for a while, at least, it seems
Tarmel Udimo: I was watching a video On TED about a woman who is looking at nature and suggesting to scientists
Solobill Laville was just on the TED page...
Tarmel Udimo: that by copying nature they can discover better ways than 'technology' I think
Ramana Sweetwater: body and mind should more be regarded as a continuum, nothing so separated
Tarmel Udimo: eventually we will begin doing that with the way the body functions
Tarmel Udimo: yes I agree
Pila Mulligan: nature is the real place where we live, and it is a teacher, for sure
Solobill Laville: Some would argue that it is fact our consciousness that separates body and mind
Pila Mulligan: :)
Solobill Laville: Until we figure out how to get 'em back together again! ;)
Pila Mulligan: I would agree
Tarmel Udimo: nods
Pila Mulligan: wu chi divided by tai chi in the Chinese metaphor
Solobill Laville: ah
Pila Mulligan: the circle made into yin and yang

Gen joined our party.

Pila Mulligan: hi genesis
Wol Euler: hello gen
Solobill Laville: Heya, Gen
Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Gen
Tarmel Udimo: hi genesis
Ramana Sweetwater: Hy!
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Pila, Wol, Solobill, Tarmel, Ramana, Scathach!
Tarmel Udimo: grins
Pila Mulligan: how are you ?
genesis Zhangsun: :)
genesis Zhangsun: dandy
genesis Zhangsun: you?
Pila Mulligan: nifty :)
Solobill Laville: peachy
genesis Zhangsun: just super
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Wol Euler chuckles
genesis Zhangsun: didn't mean to cut off the conversation :)
Pila Mulligan: just before you arrived: [13:35] Solobill Laville: Some would argue that it is fact our consciousness that separates body and mind
Pila Mulligan: I agreed
Ramana Sweetwater: I didn't but I do now ;)
genesis Zhangsun: thats an interesting way to think about Solobill
Tarmel Udimo: why did you change your mind?
Pila Mulligan: or maybe mind separate body and consciousness :)
Ramana Sweetwater: sorry, that was unnecessary humoristically meant, Tarmel ;)
genesis Zhangsun: could also be the thing that unifies those thing "in consciousness"
Tarmel Udimo: :)
Pila Mulligan: yes, that was also my point genesis
Pila Mulligan: consciousness can be a vehicle for that
Solobill Laville: and there's probably a difference, significant, between consciousness and self-conscious (e.g. aware of self as separate)
Tarmel Udimo: hummmm
Solobill Laville: the latter was my suggested meaning...
Ramana Sweetwater: mind/consciousness are probably as complex if not more than the complicated body...
Solobill Laville: too true...
Ramana Sweetwater: yet we have less words for it
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps the former being neutral for either "unification" or "discrimination" and the latter as our use of it to divide the world we see?
genesis Zhangsun: therefore "self conscious" as within in the discrimination realm and "consciousness" as neutral
genesis Zhangsun: in case not clear :)
Pila Mulligan: yes
Tarmel Udimo: hummmm yes because I think it is the mind that complicates things, we keep grasping for answers as to what consciousness is but it is experiential
Solobill Laville: yes, there's another subtlety
Solobill Laville: the idea of consciousness vs. awareness, perhaps
genesis Zhangsun: yes what differentiates those two?
Pila Mulligan: the mind divides things to describe them
Ramana Sweetwater: I am conscious still in a dream but not aware of the outer world e.g.?
genesis Zhangsun: thats a nice distinction Ramana
Ramana Sweetwater: but one could use the words also in opposite meaning in that example...
Solobill Laville: yes, we'd have to have a shared meaning for those terms
Solobill Laville: I'd offer awareness as a sort of scale towards our experiential knowledge of Reality (or your word here)
Pila Mulligan: reality seems to be a common base for qualifying words -- I am happy it is such a useful term
Tarmel Udimo: and consciousness?
Solobill Laville: hmm, trickier
Solobill Laville: Anyone?
Tarmel Udimo: are they different for me they are they have the same use in my head
Ramana Sweetwater: For me as german native speaker the definition of terms in foreign language is even more abstract I must say
Solobill Laville: yes, probably it is different for most of us, which is why sometimes agreeing on using a definition can be fruitful
Solobill Laville: I bet, Ram!

More definitions ;)

Pila Mulligan: here's a fun one: sensory v. sentient
Tarmel Udimo: or we could say awareness is more 'personal' and conscious more imporsonal but I know this gets us into
tricky waters as there is no-self
Solobill Laville: one's an adjective and one's a noun?
Tarmel Udimo: smile
Tarmel Udimo: so when I am expereincing consciousness i am being aware
genesis Zhangsun: Well to make it more complicated for a second how many types of consciousness can we identify?
Solobill Laville: Group?
genesis Zhangsun: Some would say there is personal consciousness and the collective consciousness and then the collective
uncounscious of course
Pila Mulligan: nine
genesis Zhangsun: hehe :)
Ramana Sweetwater: sub-, un-, high-...
genesis Zhangsun: list em out Pila
Pila Mulligan: oh please, not now gen :)
Ramana Sweetwater: who tells about 9 different?
Wol Euler: ten: Pila forgot "false"

:)

Pila Mulligan: survivial, sex, power, compassion, knowledge, wisdom, dharma, consesnsus
Pila Mulligan: 9 forms of consiousness :)
Pila Mulligan: or tpypes
Pila Mulligan: with a typo
genesis Zhangsun: and types of awareness?
Pila Mulligan: probably the same
Tarmel Udimo: :) which all merge into one or fracture into many
Ramana Sweetwater: these types seem the same useful as arbitrary to me ;)
Pila Mulligan: yes Tarmel
Pila Mulligan: they are
Tarmel Udimo: awarenesss is an activity
Pila Mulligan: but it was just a fun answer to a tough question -- I added consensus to the chakra forms because I think it is determinative in modern awareness
Solobill Laville: in what context, Pila?
Ramana Sweetwater: ok, now I understand how you came to that idea :)
genesis Zhangsun: I liked them Pila
Pila Mulligan: well, how many times have you seen freinds debate an idea and then come to a consensus?
Pila Mulligan: and then they leave with a common iunderstanding
Pila Mulligan: based on the consesnsus
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps that is "collective"?
Solobill Laville: ah...not my def. of awareness
Ramana Sweetwater: consensus is like 1+1=3
Pila Mulligan: yes, collective is a fair term gen
Pila Mulligan: even that Ramana

Gen drops a space-time-bomb...

genesis Zhangsun: I just had a thought that perhaps consciousness happens in space while awareness happens in time?
Solobill Laville: oh, boy ;)
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pila Mulligan: but ultimately whole societies are bound to a degree by their consesnus view of the world
genesis Zhangsun: it just came to me when Tarmel said awareness is a process
Tarmel Udimo: oh boy anyone remeber jane roberts and SETH
Pila Mulligan: nie matrix genesis
Pila Mulligan: nice*
Pila Mulligan: no Tarmel, not me
Ramana Sweetwater: if I translate both with LEO on the web, the basic meaning is the same. Only if used in phrases there are slight differences
Solobill Laville shakes his head to Tarmel's question
Tarmel Udimo: LEO?
genesis Zhangsun: yes and often I think of consciousness as something already existing in space which you then get awareness of through time
Ramana Sweetwater: german/english translation = leo
Ramana Sweetwater: just a dictionary
Tarmel Udimo: ahhhh nice one gen

Pila points out that we've spent an hour already and there is more on the SL menu today for most...

Pila Mulligan: it is approach time for the final debate on phenomenology
Tarmel Udimo: :-)
Pila Mulligan: ing*
genesis Zhangsun: yes!
genesis Zhangsun: are you all coming over?
Tarmel Udimo: SETH was being channled by Jane roberts - she was writing in the 70's I think
Pila Mulligan: yes gen
Tarmel Udimo: yes
Solobill Laville: ah
Scathach Rhiadra: yes
Pila Mulligan: oh, Seth, I rememebr Tarmel, yes
Wol Euler: oh yes!
Solobill Laville: Nope, I am not able to make it this time
Solobill Laville: Have fun though!
genesis Zhangsun: ok :)
genesis Zhangsun: thanks
genesis Zhangsun: better head over there!
Solobill Laville: ok, bye
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to see you all!
Tarmel Udimo: and most people thought she was a fake except SETH kept bringing up everything that we talk about here
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to see you Solobill!
Pila Mulligan: did Seth make a time and space comment?
Solobill Laville smiles at Gen
Ramana Sweetwater: bye solo!
Tarmel Udimo: yes very big on space time
Pila Mulligan: bye Solo
Solobill Laville: bye, Ram nice to meet you
Wol Euler: bye solo, enjoy the weekend
Scathach Rhiadra: bye solobill
Tarmel Udimo: talked about consciousness blinking in and out
Pila Mulligan: yes, we do that here :)
Wol Euler: bye for now, everyone.
Scathach Rhiadra: bye:)
Ramana Sweetwater: bye bye :)
Solobill Laville: See ya Pila, Scath, Tarmle, and Ms. Euler...
Tarmel Udimo: see you at the cafe
Pila Mulligan: going to the cafe now -- bye til later
Tarmel Udimo: coming you two