2009.11.08 19:00 - Hibernation, Dreams, Mythology and Soup

The Guardian for this meeting was stevenaia Michinaga. The comments are by stevenaia Michinaga.

The session lasted over 2 hours covering a range of topics. Soup (as in a mixture) was a topic that we spoke about in our retreat yesterday in Princeton and it also appeared  (in a food) in the chat between Pila and Calvino here.

Calvino Rabeni, a new arrival join Pila Mulligan and SophiaSharon Larnia and I until Fox Monacular arrived at the end of the first hour.

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pila

Pila Mulligan: hi Steve

Pila Mulligan: how are you?

stevenaia Michinaga: Cal has been over there for quite a while

stevenaia Michinaga: I am good

stevenaia Michinaga: how are you, did you read this morning;s meeting log

Pila Mulligan: ... don't think I've met Calvino yet

Pila Mulligan: I am fine thanks -- yes, I did

stevenaia Michinaga: I haven;t met him either but he did accept the PaB notecard

Pila Mulligan: :) well, hello Calvino -- have a seat if you like

stevenaia Michinaga: I like the new tag :)

stevenaia Michinaga: looks for my french maid's outfit

Pila Mulligan: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: cal has a "Ways of Tao" group I joined waiting to see if they get together ever

stevenaia Michinaga: welcome Cal, have you been here before?

Calvino Rabeni: Hello, never

stevenaia Michinaga: we record our meetings and post them on the groups Wiki, is it ok to include your comments

Calvino Rabeni: I saw that, ok

stevenaia Michinaga: thanks, we prefer to ask :)

Pila Mulligan: welcome Cal

stevenaia Michinaga: I was wondering does your Way's of Tao group ever meet?

Calvino Rabeni: thx. computer is inadequate to operate SL, so avatar is semi zombie I guess

stevenaia Michinaga: you are fine

Pila Mulligan: yep, lag happens

stevenaia Michinaga: move

Pila Mulligan: mine was like that before I replaced it this summer

stevenaia Michinaga: this is an exploration group of sorts, sharing ideas and thoughts

Pila Mulligan: hi Sharon

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sharon

stevenaia Michinaga: Cal is a new guest tonight

SophiaSharon Larnia: Hi Pila, Steven, Calvino :)

Pila Mulligan: how are you?

stevenaia Michinaga: Sharon and I met at a RL mini retreat this weekend

Pila Mulligan: I was about to ask about it

SophiaSharon Larnia: great Pila !!

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: you guys are almost RL neighbors anyway, as I recall

stevenaia Michinaga: I was there for only one of the days, yes, about an hour or so away

SophiaSharon Larnia: it was wonderful and so strange at the same time, the strangeness of it wore off quickly though :)

stevenaia Michinaga: where are you from in RL Cal?

Pila Mulligan: so I've heard -- the RL presence yields to the Sl familiarity

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Seattle, and you?

stevenaia Michinaga: one of the things we do is to take a 90 second short meditation break every quarter hour...

Pila Mulligan: Steve's question was coincidentally timed to put your answer in the 90 seconds :)

Calvino Rabeni: yep. time slip

SophiaSharon Larnia: grins

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I should have prepared us for that

SophiaSharon Larnia: this pavilion looks so different with the small setting

Pila Mulligan is from Hawai`i -- where are you from Steve?

stevenaia Michinaga: Pennsylvania

stevenaia Michinaga: about 90 minutes from Princeton

Pila Mulligan: ah yes, and

Pila Mulligan: sharon also

SophiaSharon Larnia: yes :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: different direction though

Pila Mulligan: the picture of the pond at the site was very nice

Pila posted pictures of the grounds of the IAS in Princeton where the retreat was held

SophiaSharon Larnia: perfect fall weather

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, we took walks around it

stevenaia Michinaga: the area is also a revolutionary war battle field

Pila Mulligan: I found another one like it on Google

stevenaia Michinaga: how did you do that?

Pila Mulligan: you download the picture and use it as a texture

stevenaia Michinaga: nice pic

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, Cal, the retreat was in Princeton

stevenaia Michinaga: overlooking this pond

SophiaSharon Larnia: cool

Pila Mulligan: you can take a copy if you like

SophiaSharon Larnia: you need to set the perms :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: but that would be great for the building of the room we were in I made :))

Pila Mulligan: another one from Google map

Pila Mulligan: Sophia told me by IM how to make them copyable -- so they should be now :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: yay!! thanks so much,

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: they are definitely going in near the building

Pila Mulligan: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: i have a new appreciation of what we are doing here in play as being

Pila Mulligan: how so Sharon?

stevenaia Michinaga: can you tell us?

stevenaia Michinaga: Pema's history story was nice

stevenaia Michinaga: put things in perspective

SophiaSharon Larnia: i wont say i didn't understand, but i see how i can integrate things better in real life, sl is so distant sometimes

Pila Mulligan: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: appreciation in a fresh sense

SophiaSharon Larnia: a new definition of integration also

SophiaSharon Larnia: and Pema kept us very well fed!!

SophiaSharon Larnia: what did you think Steve?

stevenaia Michinaga: I enjoyed the experience

stevenaia Michinaga: it;s always informative, especially to me relative to PaB (Play as Being)

stevenaia Michinaga: I have been here for quite a while and there is always more to explore through meditation

stevenaia Michinaga: always keeps things fresh

--BELL--

SophiaSharon Larnia: i don't know if there will be a theme session as such, so don't want to spoil anything :))

Pila Mulligan: was food brought in?

SophiaSharon Larnia: freshness as a newness

stevenaia Michinaga: the observing of arising thoughts is, when all other topics fails, a perfect things to watch

stevenaia Michinaga: no we ate in the cafeteria

Pila Mulligan: sorry to distract with food thoughts :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: but it was a great one lol

stevenaia Michinaga: since have not come from a formal meditative background as most others have

Pila Mulligan: I'm not sure most have, Steve

Pila Mulligan: no better than half have I'd say

stevenaia Michinaga: well this weekend most have

Pila Mulligan: ahh, i see

stevenaia Michinaga: did you Sharon?

stevenaia Michinaga: I know eliza, paradise, Eos, and Pema did, perhaps not adams

SophiaSharon Larnia: not formally, i have done so many times over the years

stevenaia Michinaga: then there is ... no me :)

stevenaia Michinaga: not

stevenaia Michinaga: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: and had one reason or another why it became difficult

Pila Mulligan: do you have any meditation practice, Calvino?

Calvino Rabeni: ,'

Calvino Rabeni: yes, many. but no certificate from a roshi :)

Pila Mulligan: :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: nods

Pila Mulligan: not required :)

stevenaia Michinaga: interesting roshi was also a jewish sage from the middle ages

stevenaia Michinaga: assumes that is not what you are speaking of

Calvino Rabeni: have you taken vows, formal or otherwise?

Pila Mulligan: not me

stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R�shi

Pila Mulligan: I do the equivalent in practice though

stevenaia Michinaga: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashi

stevenaia Michinaga: slightly different :)

Pila Mulligan: ah, an acronym for the Rabbi

stevenaia Michinaga: no, he was a person

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: "Shlomo Yitzhaki, better known by the acronym Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzhaki), (February 22, 1040 - July 13, 1105), was a medieval French rabbi famed as the author of the first comprehensive commentary on the Talmud"

Pila Mulligan: appreciation is a nice term

stevenaia Michinaga: awww

Pila Mulligan: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: quite a bit to read

SophiaSharon Larnia is feeling very appreciative of things

SophiaSharon Larnia: rephrase that

SophiaSharon Larnia: not things exactly. but of feeling more peaceful with present situations

Pila Mulligan: yes, appreciation as awareness

Calvino Rabeni: if this group had a mind, what would it say about "imagination"?

Pila Mulligan: quite a bit, I imagine :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: great question

Pila Mulligan: this can be a verbose group :)

SophiaSharon Larnia: imagination as varied as the participants, there are many

stevenaia Michinaga: part of what the point of this group is, is to have a minds, not in a common sense but in a way we understand each other over time

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: OK then, if you had only 1 bit to express the feeling, would it be "good" or "bad"?

stevenaia Michinaga: inclusive

SophiaSharon Larnia: good and bad are relative

Pila Mulligan: ... it may be even unavoidable (as intrinsic or essential) -- how about yourself, Cal?

Pila Mulligan: what say ye?

stevenaia Michinaga: :0

Calvino Rabeni: Good.

Pila Mulligan: yep

SophiaSharon Larnia: i have never found a group as inclusive as this one

Pila Mulligan: there are some neurologically oriented people here, and some dream oriented people here, they would agree

stevenaia Michinaga: the expectation here is for each of us to explain our thoughts, not to argue or judge

Pila Mulligan: yes, Sharon, diverse and inclusive

SophiaSharon Larnia: laughs :)

stevenaia Michinaga: and as bad a typist as we are

Pila Mulligan: speak for thyself Steve

Pila Mulligan: I never have tpyos

SophiaSharon Larnia: no, i think i earn that title sometime

stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be happy not to spellcheck your typos Pila , grins

Pila Mulligan: thnaks

SophiaSharon Larnia: giggles

SophiaSharon Larnia: as wol has said typos are sl body language

Pila Mulligan: to some we may be little more than the end result of a very imaginative Being

stevenaia Michinaga: or a way for Freud to speak through us

SophiaSharon Larnia: we do tend to start at the end :))

Calvino Rabeni: :)

stevenaia Michinaga: Play as Being was meant to recognize that we may not understand Being,but through Playing as we do, we will going a better sense of what Being is

stevenaia Michinaga: by starting at the end

SophiaSharon Larnia: drop what you have to see what you are

stevenaia Michinaga: and that what we do here

stevenaia Michinaga: and you are welcome to return anytime Cal

SophiaSharon Larnia: sometimes just a few people, other times, a lot!

SophiaSharon Larnia: i have to go, take care!!

SophiaSharon Larnia: waves

Pila Mulligan: bye Sharon

Pila Mulligan: nice to see you

Calvino Rabeni: i will get new computer, then be articulate in future

Pila Mulligan: hi Fox

stevenaia Michinaga: we will be here, I suspect

stevenaia Michinaga: hello Fox

Fox Monacular: hi Pila, Steve, Calvino

Pila Mulligan: beginning at the end are you :)

Pila Mulligan: Sharon just left, after noting that PaB phrase

Fox Monacular: :)

Fox Monacular: what is this picture behind me?

Pila Mulligan: the pond at the retreat place

Fox Monacular: sorry I'm late, btw...

Fox Monacular: how nice...

Pila Mulligan: you are on time for now

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, we had perfect weather and a view of this pond

Fox Monacular: ah, yes, that's right, you were there too!

stevenaia Michinaga: for yesterday

Fox Monacular: how was it?

stevenaia Michinaga: very nice

Fox Monacular: have you met others before?

stevenaia Michinaga: you leave with a new stillness

stevenaia Michinaga: had just met Pema and Adams in RL, and Maxine but she had already left

Fox Monacular: :)

Fox Monacular: i guess it's an old question, but do you find RL people correspond to your impression of their SL avatars?

stevenaia Michinaga: after meeting them I find their SL avatars are now imprinted by the RL images

Pila Mulligan: the answers I've heard to the same question have been consistently like that -- and that a familiarity is near instantaneous

stevenaia Michinaga: the avatar fades

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: Steve, regarding my comments about mudras last night, I erred in referring to 'grasp the bird's tail' when I meant 'crane's beak' -- just errata for the record

stevenaia Michinaga: awww, ok

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: http://financenow.ca/push/1503/Donna...gle%20whip.jpg

Pila Mulligan: the right hand in the photo -- it is a kind of tai chi mudra

Fox Monacular: I didn't know mudras were used in tai chi!

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I do that

Pila Mulligan: mudras show up all over the place Fox

Fox Monacular: I only knew about hindu/buddhist mudras...

Fox Monacular: are these the same in tai chi?

Pila Mulligan: have you learned many?

Pila Mulligan: some are close

Fox Monacular: no I haven't really learned any, although in the tibetan center I go to sometimes they give teachings on mudras

Pila Mulligan: from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mudra -- One hundred and eight mudras are used in regular Tantric rituals. Mudras are also used in Indian Classical Dance. There are over 200 mudras in bharatanatyam, and over 250 in mohiniattam.

Fox Monacular: but in a zen center they use a mudra for sittings

Pila Mulligan: yep, commonly the thumb touching the forefinger

Fox Monacular: amazing

Pila Mulligan: :)

Fox Monacular: yes:)

Pila Mulligan: oh, zen

Pila Mulligan: they have their own

Pila Mulligan: hand on top of hand -- a nice one

Pila Mulligan: http://www.indianetzone.com/38/images/DhyaniMudra_18880.jpg

Pila Mulligan: there's nice Chinese variation of that one where the thumb touches the base of the middle finger

Fox Monacular: yes, it's like that that we use, although you are supposed to imagine you're holding a sphere

Pila Mulligan: :)

Fox Monacular: so it's more circular

Pila Mulligan: yes, all related to energy in an around the hands

Fox Monacular: and elbows are not touching the body, so it takes quite a lot of effort to sustain

Fox Monacular: right

Pila Mulligan: posture is important for many things

stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be right back

Pila Mulligan: ok Steve

Calvino Rabeni: This interest in mudras is an artistic endeavor? Or ethnographic?

Pila Mulligan: probably a mixture, Calvino

Pila Mulligan: practical for me

Pila Mulligan: perhaps artistic :0

Fox Monacular: sorry, router playing tricks on me... I think I just missed a few comments... after steve said he'll be right back:)

Pila Mulligan: [20:09] Calvino Rabeni: This interest in mudras is an artistic endeavor? Or ethnographic? [20:09] Pila Mulligan: probably a mixture, Calvino [20:09] Pila Mulligan: practical for me [20:10] Pila Mulligan: perhaps artistic :0

Fox Monacular: thank you Pila!

Fox Monacular: just interesting for me...

Pila Mulligan: last night Steve and I were talking about various mental states, and one of them was fascination

Fox Monacular: no specific goal in sight:)

Pila Mulligan: I once learned a mudra for fascination and wanted to tell him about it

stevenaia Michinaga: back

Pila Mulligan: welcome back

Fox Monacular: mudra for fascination? sounds awesome!

Pila Mulligan: it is somewhat similar to crane's beak in tai chi

Pila Mulligan: where the four fingers kind of gather around the thumb i the middle

Pila Mulligan: slightly curved

Pila Mulligan: in the fascination mudra the thumb touches the middle finger and the ring finger folds down to the palm

Pila Mulligan: it is intended to balance the impact or effect of fascination

--BELL--

Calvino Rabeni: Are they more symbolic/conventional or considered psychoactive?

Fox Monacular: it is so interesting that you see fascination as a mental state

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: well, I suppose it could be either Cal, insofar as you can give symbolism an active element

Pila Mulligan: and Fox, what else would it be?

Fox Monacular: I'm confused about separation between 'states'... you know in mainstream science they talk about 'altered' states, or normal states

Pila Mulligan: ahh

Fox Monacular: but I definitely see what you mean

Pila Mulligan: maybe condition would be less forceful

Pila Mulligan: a simpler state of mind :)

Fox Monacular: for instance I always thought it weird to talk about dreaming as an 'altered' state

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: Cal asked earlier about imagination -- all in the same boat

Fox Monacular: yes, exactly

Pila Mulligan: fascination being just a greater degree of interest

Fox Monacular: imagination, or remembering, or immersion...

Pila Mulligan: however, I once read about how the fifth bardo in the Tibetan scheme is the bardo of fascination

Fox Monacular: oh, cool

Pila Mulligan: where you can be enchanted by things that lead you into your next incarnation

Calvino Rabeni: :(

Fox Monacular: enchanted in sense of clinging, or positive enchantment?

Pila Mulligan: probably a degree of interest

Pila Mulligan: like, wow that looks cool

Fox Monacular: like I like to sleep so much... oh, might be reincarnated as a bear

Pila Mulligan: :)

Pila Mulligan: anyone ever wire bears for their dreams?

Fox Monacular: although chances are slim... there are less and less bears around

Fox Monacular: what do you mean, Pila?

Pila Mulligan: I wonder if hibernating animals dream much

Pila Mulligan: and if so, could it be detected electronically

Fox Monacular: oh.. yes, it can be detected, definitely.! but I don't know if anyone has ever done so... probably not yet

stevenaia Michinaga: sure, looks for REM in bears

Fox Monacular: well, REM sleep can be detected

Fox Monacular: :)

Pila Mulligan: figure a dream that lasts for months could become a stable reality

Fox Monacular: seriously... I wonder if they have out of body experiences:))

stevenaia Michinaga: would hate to meet a bear with an out of body experience

Pila Mulligan: :)

Fox Monacular: :))

Pila Mulligan: reminds me of Chaung Tze

Fox Monacular: ok, looks like in squirrels non-REM is 80% and REM 20% both during the year and in hibernation

Pila Mulligan: ahh -- so that is 80% dreaming?

Pila Mulligan: or vice versa

Fox Monacular: no, 20% dreaming

Pila Mulligan: ok, thanks

Fox Monacular: although we know that there's dreaming in non rem sleep as well

--BELL--

Fox Monacular: just not as intense and complex

Pila Mulligan:

"Once Zhuangzi dreamt he was a butterfly, a butterfly flitting and fluttering around, happy with himself and doing as he pleased. He didn't know he was Zhuangzi.  Suddenly he woke up and there he was, solid and unmistakable Zhuangzi. But he didn't know if he was Zhuangzi who had dreamt he was a butterfly, or a butterfly dreaming he was Zhuangzi."

Fox Monacular: :))

Calvino Rabeni: shamanism, anyone?

Fox Monacular: not yet:)

Pila Mulligan: Once Smokey and Rocky dreamt they were in SL happy and doing as they pleased. ... :)

stevenaia Michinaga: if you search the wiki, I do remember there were discussions centered around that

Fox Monacular: oh, during the 90 sec I had a thought - you know russian has roots in sanskrit, and 'mudryj' in russian means wise... thinking about the relation to mudras:)

Pila Mulligan: Smokey the Bear and Rocket J. Squirrel, of course

Pila Mulligan: cool

Pila Mulligan: I was reading about a scholar attributing sanskrit to northern cultures before it got to India

Fox Monacular: (blushingly) are they cartoon characters?

Pila Mulligan: yes

Pila Mulligan: :)

Fox Monacular: thanks:)

Fox Monacular: also, budit' in russian in to wake up... like buddha... the awakened:))

stevenaia Michinaga: that's moose and squirrel, Pila

Pila Mulligan: not bullwinkle

stevenaia Michinaga: ok, sorry

Pila Mulligan: http://www.lyndasfuntimejunction.com/images/smokey1.jpg http://www.ss-peterandpaul.net/images/Rocky_300.gif

Pila Mulligan: do mosse hibernate?

Pila Mulligan: maybe bullwinkle would work too

Fox Monacular: moose? I don't think so... thinking about all those northers hotels/ cabins with pictures of moose in the snow:)

Pila Mulligan: yep

Fox Monacular: also wikipedia says: Animals that hibernate are in a state of torpor, differing from sleep. Hibernation markedly reduces the need for sleep, but does not remove it. Hibernating animals end their hibernation a couple of times during the winter so that they can sleep

Pila Mulligan: interesting

Pila Mulligan: well then, so much for the idea of being a bear to get some extra sleep time

Fox Monacular: yes, looks like they don't get such a great deal after all

stevenaia Michinaga: hate to leave in the mist of a hibernation discussion, but tomorrow is closing in on me

Pila Mulligan: I think Gaya has mentioned the Korea Shamanism religion from first hand experience

Pila Mulligan: bye Steve, sleep well

stevenaia Michinaga: night, nice to meet you Cal

stevenaia Michinaga: night Pila, Fox

Fox Monacular: actually I should go too

Calvino Rabeni: CU again

Pila Mulligan: bye Fox, sweet dreams

Fox Monacular: good night Steve, Pila, Cal

Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_shamanism

Fox Monacular: thank you Pila, I will definitely read it later:)

Pila Mulligan: Gaya is one of the regulars here, originally from Korea

 

Apparently Calvino stepped out of a moment.... 

Pila Mulligan: well, Cal, there you have it -- your first Play a s Being session

Pila Mulligan: bye for now

--BELL--

Pila Mulligan: welcome back :)
Calvino Rabeni: It will be NICE to have a better SL capable system. I have empathy for the disabled.
Pila Mulligan: this wiki site has the chat logs and more information – http://playasbeing.wik.is/Chat_Logs/2009
Pila Mulligan: yes, when I was in the same boat it was quite limiting – SL capable system that is
Calvino Rabeni: When I disappeared I went to a slightly better system. Like my avatar had a double espresso.
Pila Mulligan: part of my problem is not having real broadband, but getting a better speced system hepled
Pila Mulligan: I get about a 500 kb connection at best
Calvino Rabeni: So this group, has some norms in addition to politeness listening and intelligence, I assume.
Pila Mulligan: well, it depends, those are the fundamental norms
Pila Mulligan: there are quite a few add-ons, but not quite as deeply etched as friendly and polite
Pila Mulligan: you can see much of it on the website
Pila Mulligan: the organizer of the group is into Phenomenology
Calvino Rabeni: I read the "about" stuff - haven't sifted thru the logs however.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: so a lot of the talk is about a kind of Phenomenology filtered through meditation practices
Pila Mulligan: as in Being
Calvino Rabeni: Is there a "supposed to sound buddhist" flavor?
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: no, but there is a kind-of sounds Buddhist experience
Pila Mulligan: there are quite a few Buddhists, but there are all sorts, in addition
Pila Mulligan: there have been some very interesting sessions on Islam, Franciscan Christianity and other subjects
Pila Mulligan: and some talk just about mundane events
Pila Mulligan: Fox works in a university dream lab, she always has some interesting ideas in that realm
Pila Mulligan: one of the regulars is an MD from Seattle whose practice includes dream work, so when they get together it is especially interesting
Calvino Rabeni: I'm in Seattle. It's interesting to know your RL-adjacent persons.
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: the group that met in Princeton this weekend was mostly from around there, but some came from further away
Pila Mulligan: dream workshop: http://www.kira.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=106&Itemid=136
Pila Mulligan: Kira Cafe is kind of the parent organization fro this group
Calvino Rabeni: This weekend I attended a workshop by mythologist Michael Meade. It’s not my main thing, but I found it evocative.
Pila Mulligan: yes, it is quite interesting to me also -- but not a main thing
Pila Mulligan: I love Joseph Campbell
Calvino Rabeni: The perspective was - that we're living together in a dream - we think of it as "culture".
Pila Mulligan: removing the distinction between dreaming and waking can kind of lead to imagination as a source of Being
Pila Mulligan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Campbell
Pila Mulligan: Campbell kind of approached it from the other end -- culture is composed of myth
Pila Mulligan: as opposed to culture is a dream
Pila Mulligan: but similar
Calvino Rabeni: Not sure about that distinction. If culture is composed of myths, then what is their container or medium?
Pila Mulligan: that is the fine distinction -- does the dream contain the culture or does the culture contain the dream
Pila Mulligan: it may be impossible to say
Pila Mulligan: I tend to relate to the world I see as if it is the container
Pila Mulligan: see, in the waking sense
Pila Mulligan: so that the dreams and myths that create culture come from that world
Pila Mulligan: but I can easily see the converse, that the waking world is but a dream
Calvino Rabeni: Apropos your earlier comment
Calvino Rabeni: http://www.amazon.com/Waking-Dreams-Mary-M-Watkins/dp/0882143247
Pila Mulligan: :) i think lucidity is the best common descriptor
Pila Mulligan: wherever it is found
Calvino Rabeni: I often think it's good to look at the attitude around words like "but"
Pila Mulligan: do you have a main thing? (relating back to your earlier comment about mythology)
Calvino Rabeni: No, I have no main thing. I have had many of those, but now it's an aged soup.
Calvino Rabeni: And I may have some new things coming.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: my main thing would be classical Chinese philosophy
Calvino Rabeni: Nice
Calvino Rabeni: Well, one book I have is "Sung dynasty uses of the I Ching".
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: 900 year old soup in China, a reality I think?
Pila Mulligan: well, the Sung dynasty was not the first to rely on the I Ching :)
Calvino Rabeni: The interesting thing is the cycle of elaboration and codification, I think, which has been repeated
Pila Mulligan: Chinese history is probably the best cultural laboratory around in terms of depth
Pila Mulligan: just as the book says, the Sung leaders all used the I in their own ways, it has always been like that -- the depth of the I allows many uses
Pila Mulligan: continuity within change being a common theme in most of them
Calvino Rabeni: so you could call the I a phenomenological proto-science I suppose.
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: I would -- even just science is ok with me :)
Calvino Rabeni: Ok here too
Pila Mulligan: it still has things to teach even in terms of modern science
Calvino Rabeni: If that's true, then it's open to further development.
Pila Mulligan: yep
Calvino Rabeni: So how do you do that without being accused of cultural appropriation
Calvino Rabeni: or muddying the historiographical waters
Pila Mulligan: it is probably a matter of timing
Pila Mulligan: science has to find it
Pila Mulligan: the I cannot teach it directly
Pila Mulligan: to me the likely missing link is yin
Calvino Rabeni: Well I find that suggestive.
Pila Mulligan: here is a step -- http://nextbigfuture.com/2009/03/theory-of-space-time-with-quantum-scale.html
Pila Mulligan: it seems to me that yin as a concept is too common to be misappropriated -- it was part of almost all traditional 'science'
Pila Mulligan: a fractal subset of state space is just right there on the edge of the I, in my alleged brain
Calvino Rabeni: If you tried to grasp it as phenomena in cultural life, cast a line into the abyss, what would come up on the hook?
Pila Mulligan: non-repetitive empiricism
Pila Mulligan: science give lip service to empiricism. and I say lip-service because it imposes the limitation of repetition
Pila Mulligan: if it cannot be repeated it is not a valid observation
Pila Mulligan: but that is challenged by the unique circumstances of the observation
Calvino Rabeni: Repetition - part of that idea I think is "easy", which is a yang property
Pila Mulligan: yes, that is sensible
Pila Mulligan: but take cold fusion, as an example
Pila Mulligan: i do not know what cold fusion is actually
Pila Mulligan: but I read that some scientists claim they did it
Pila Mulligan: and some claim they cannot
Pila Mulligan: so what is the difference, if they are not frauds
Pila Mulligan: science is compelled to conclude they are frauds or looneys
Pila Mulligan: maybe they are not
Pila Mulligan: do you know any good onion recipes?
Pila Mulligan: i have too many onions and it is dinner time here (7:30 pm)
Calvino Rabeni: Yes, any recipe is good when onions are added.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Calvino Rabeni: Are you in Hawaii?
Pila Mulligan: yes
Pila Mulligan: thin sliced with cukes maybe
Calvino Rabeni: Yes. Tomatoes ok with that also
Pila Mulligan: yep
Pila Mulligan: well, now my food imagination is active, so I'll excuse myself Cal
Pila Mulligan: nice to meet you
Calvino Rabeni: likewise. again some time.
Pila Mulligan: see you next time
Calvino Rabeni: good bye
Pila Mulligan: bye