Pema Pera: Hi Bertrum!
Bertrum Quan: Hi Pema
Pema Pera: How’s life?
Bertrum Quan: Just fine…
Pema Pera: That sounds nice!
Bertrum Quan: I had a couple of questions…
Pema Pera: please go right ahead!
Bertrum Quan: I wondered how to get the landmark to the place Storm has written about.
Pema Pera: which place?
Bertrum Quan: It’s the sandbox…where the guardians build. He also sent an e-mail referring to a map.
Pema Pera: It should be one of the choices on the teleport station here. Let’s have a look.
I moved my camera position to what looks like a large bulletin board near the entrance of the pavilion. No need to get up from our comfortable position, sitting down on our cushions, given that we can easily move our camera positions around. Wish we could do that in daily life!
Pema Pera: Yes it is there
Pema Pera: Do you see it?
Pema Pera: There is a wooden wall with nine tiles
Pema Pera: if you click a tile, you get teleported to the place that is written above it
Pema Pera: the second one is “Play as Being sandbox”
Pema Pera: It is to your right
Pema Pera: outside the pavilion
Bertrum Quan: Okay, I’ll look for it. Is it also at the Zen Retreat?
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: you can look for it right now :-)
Pema Pera: Do you know how to use camera control to see it?
Pema Pera: it is just to your right
Bertrum Quan: No
Pema Pera: ah, that is an essential skill to learn
Pema Pera: otherwise you cannot be really aware of your environment
I was happy to show Bertrum how to move the camera position around. I myself learned this from others when I had just arrived in SL. Most people learn from each other, rather than from books or manuals. It is a friendly way to share knowledge.
Pema Pera: there are a few different ways
Pema Pera: one of them is to use the little blue dashbord with the two circles — do you know that one?
Bertrum Quan: Yes
Pema Pera: the other is to use alt/option and control keys
Pema Pera: Do you have the blue little HUD up right now?
Bertrum Quan: No…
Pema Pera: or window I guess you could call it — you said you were familiar with that one?
Bertrum Quan: Yes, I can pull it down from the menu… it’s on my screen
Pema Pera: view->camera controls
Bertrum Quan: yes. I have it in front of me.
Pema Pera: so if you use the lift and right arrows on your keyboard, or equivalently the left and right arrows on the left circle of the blue dashboard,
Pema Pera: then first rotate the scene so that your viewpoint is straight behind your avatar
Pema Pera: looking at the table in front of you being exactly in the middle
Pema Pera: after doing that, use the right most arrow in the right circle of the blue dashboard
Pema Pera: and hold your left mouse key down
Pema Pera: while you hold the left mouse key down, your field of view will pan to the right
Bertrum Quan: okay. got it. it took me right there! (using the touch pad on the laptop and the arrows)
Pema Pera: and after a while you will see the big wooden bulletin board like structure with the nine tiles on it for teleportation
Pema Pera: can you read the signs?
Bertrum Quan: Yes, I saw the signs. so I know where to look. I’ve returned to the conversation view now.
In some sense the blue arrows are the simplest to use, given that the present a kind of dashboard with fixed options. However, in practice many of us find it more flexible and versatile to use some key-mouse combinations directly.
Pema Pera: The other way to navigate starts with the alt key
Pema Pera: click on any place in front of you while holding the alt key down
Pema Pera: and then hold the left mouse button down and move the mouse away from you or towards you
Pema Pera: then will cause you to zoom out and in
Pema Pera: Can you try that?
Pema Pera: moving the mouse left and right will rotate the scene around the point where you clicked
Bertrum Quan: Using the laptop without the mouse… but I’ve made progress. Thanks.
Pema Pera: ah, in that case, move your finger on the trackpad
Pema Pera: away from you and toward you
Pema Pera: while keeping both the alt key and the left click button down
Pema Pera: that is by far the fastest way to take in your sourroundings
Bertrum Quan: Yes. It takes a bit of coordination. I’ll work on it. I appreciate the tutorial! Second question: Some of the participants in the PaB confuse me.
Pema Pera: in what way?
Bertrum Quan: They constantly interrupt the conversation, make sounds and strange motions. In your blog you referred to it as compic relief…
Bertrum Quan: comic relief…
Pema Pera: oh, there was this one person, Caspian, he is an exception :)
Pema Pera: other than that, are there other examples?
Pema Pera: We generally allow anyone to come here, unless they really disrupt the meetings
Pema Pera: If Caspian would become disruptive, we would ask him to go too.
Pema Pera: He came close a few times, but generally didn’t stay long
Bertrum Quan: I was in two session where I found it very confusing to track the comments. I guess when thinking about it now, one of the other participants was engaging him.
Fael joins us.
Fael Illyar: Hello Pema, Bertrum :)
Pema Pera: Caspian has been here less than an hour in total, I think — if and when he would come back, we’ll see how to deal with that
Faenik: indeed?
Pema Pera: Hi Fael!
Bertrum Quan: Hi Fael …Okay, that answers that question.
Pema Pera: As for our conversations, normally we switch between being orderly and disorderly . . .
Pema Pera: hard to please everyone :-)
Pema Pera: it is nice to be playful sometimes
Pema Pera: and to be very focused and serious sometimes
Fael Illyar: you were talking about caspian?
Pema Pera: Yes
Pema Pera: Actually, I have to get out of SL for a bit, to change batteries
Pema Pera: I hope to be back in a few minutes!
Pema Pera: Fael, could you keep the chat log for that intermission?
Fael Illyar: Ok :)
Pema Pera: c u soon again!
Pema Pera: in a few
I exit SL, to swap batteries. Here is Fael’s chat log for that brief period:
Faenik loves wells!
Pema Pera is Offline
Fael Illyar: Bertrum, would you mind giving me a short version of the topic?
Bertrum Quan: We hadn’t begun that process yet. I had a couple of questions…
Fael Illyar: Well, I was mostly interested in the one that was going on when I entered :)
Bertrum Quan: Oh. I just wondered about the interruptions, noises, and strange movements of some of the participants during some of the conversations…
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: ah that, yes.
Fael Illyar: I’m, myself, increasingly seeing caspian as white noise.
Pema Pera is Online
Bertrum Quan: Well, I don’t know.
From here on, I’m back again, and at that time Libby is joining us as well.
Bertrum Quan: Pema, earlier today Fael described something quite profound and I wondered if we could discuss it.
Fael Illyar: wb Pema :)
Fael Illyar: Hello Libby
Pema Pera: I did not read the transcript yet
Bertrum Quan: Hi Libby
Pema Pera: Hi Libby!
Pema Pera: Can you summarize?
Libby Sohl: hello Fael, Pema, Betrum
Bertrum Quan: Fael was talking about meditation.
Bertrum Quan: She at first entered a very “deep” one– like sleep withut dream. After that, though, it was hard for her to return to that state.
Bertrum Quan: *without dreams
Pema Pera: yes?
Bertrum Quan: I wondered if you discuss your take on that…
Pema Pera: oh, I’d be happy too :-)
Pema Pera: it sounds like a great experience, the way you described it.
Pema Pera: Do you or Fael have any question or comment about it?
Fael Illyar: I was talking about things that happened around one week after I started meditating.
Fael Illyar: I’m not completely sure if I’ve been back in that after the first time and the couple of times after that when I set out to do it.
Pema Pera: btw Libby, good seeing you again — just noticed that you were born in SL on the day that our Play as Being initiative was born, April 1 this year :-)
Faenik: ah :)
Libby Sohl: just an idea fael, but maybe the reason you cant get to the same place is the fact that you hold an expectation that you should
Pema Pera: It often happens, Fael, that when we start something new, that we get a harbinger experience, as Stim likes to call it
Only later would I read that Stim had indeed used that same word, six hours earlier.
Pema Pera: a preview like for a movie :>)
Pema Pera: and then when we get really into it, it may take a long time to regain that kind of experience
Pema Pera: I have many encountered examples from my own practice
Pema Pera: and also from before I started any kind of formal meditation
Fael Illyar: Libby, no, I don’t think I care about getting there anymore.
Faenik: could be
Pema Pera: sometimes rather profound experiences, sometimes more brief flashes or encounters
Fael Illyar: I might be in that “deep” meditation often without actually knowing it’s the same. I’m not sure, that’s all.
Pema Pera: An interesting possibility, Libby, and for many people that is definitely a factor
Pema Pera: and even when we are not aware of it, when we get more “into” some activity, we tend to narrow
Pema Pera: thinking “ah, this is it”
Pema Pera: whereas a total beginner may have a wider field of view, so to speak
Bertrum Quan: Fael described in a way that resonated as metaphor for me…
Fael Illyar: resonated?
Bertrum Quan: Resonated: many powerful associations,,,
Pema Pera: Oh, hi Caspian!
Caspian Inglewood: hai
Bertrum Quan: You described as a room without light… you agreed it was like sleep without dreams
Caspian Inglewood: how is everyone?
Caspian came in, and I indicated that we were in the middle of a conversation. Bertrum asks me a question and at the same time Fael asks Bertrum a question, typical for the way our conversations are sometimes interleaved. Caspian immediately started a third thread.
Pema Pera: fine, in the middle of a conversation
Libby Sohl: Hello Caspian
Bertrum Quan: Those images also suggested death to me… were a little disquieting…
Caspian Inglewood: well gon…go on
Bertrum Quan: Pema, how would you describe your meditation…
Pema Pera: well . . . that is a veeeery big question :>)
Pema Pera: can you be more specific?
Fael Illyar: Bertrum, in a way I guess they’re related to temporary death (more like sleeping I guess) of this thing called “I”.
Caspian Inglewood: see your own death in the death of others
Caspian Inglewood: do not put your trust in this body
Libby Sohl: more like realese than death maybe
Libby Sohl: the shutting down of distractions that allow you to focus
Caspian Inglewood: just do not waste a moment
Bertrum Quan: Okay, perhaps the feeling…. your feeling when you meditate…
Caspian Inglewood: Libby
Faenik: indeed?
Caspian Inglewood: may i ask question?
Libby Sohl: yes Caspian
Caspian Inglewood: please define distractions
Caspian Inglewood: I am curious
Libby Sohl: surely distractions are individual to everyone
Bertrum Quan: Pema, how would you describe the feeling…?
Caspian Inglewood: this is so
Caspian Inglewood: but are they outside or inside?
Libby Sohl: inside
Caspian Inglewood: okay
Caspian Inglewood: tyvm
Caspian Inglewood: this is a #1 answer, btw
Libby Sohl: the things that occupy your mind more than is neccesary i guess
Pema Pera: Bertrum, meditating and living are not so different. What we call “meditation” is a very broad term for learning to live better — so asking how meditating is for me is like how life is for me. Hard to give a short answer, unless I know a bit more of the why and what of your question.
Caspian Inglewood: so maybe it is thinking, not the sound of a dog bark?
Libby Sohl: yes it is
Caspian Inglewood: ah, okay
Caspian Inglewood: I would like to pass something I heard along then
Caspian Inglewood: clear mind is like the full moon in sky
Caspian Inglewood: sometimes clouds cover it, but the moon only shines
Bertrum Quan: Okay, meditating can mean many things. And it has been described many ways.
Caspian Inglewood: do not worry about clear mind, it is always there
Caspian Inglewood: when thinking comes, behind is clear mind
Caspian Inglewood: when thinking goes, only clear mind
Libby Sohl: yes but i often find that because my day to day life is busy my thinking often clings to things it doesnt need to
Caspian Inglewood: so cling
Caspian Inglewood: do not worry about clinging
Caspian Inglewood: it is like old age or sickness
Caspian Inglewood: do not wish away
Caspian Inglewood: go in
Bertrum posed a question, concerning levels, a tricky notion, and I am trying to respond.
Bertrum Quan: Fael’s description was striking. I wondered if the room without light or the sleep without dream is descrptive of an advanced level…
Caspian Inglewood: thinking comes and goes
Pema Pera: oh, I think we have to be very careful with analysis in terms of levels . . . .
Pema Pera: sure there are differences
Caspian Inglewood: do not be attached to the coming nor the going
Pema Pera: in aptitude and intensity of practice
Libby Sohl: i dont think it matters as long as it is a place she feels comfortable
Pema Pera: but I don’t think we should focus too much on that
Pema Pera: certainly that is not what we are trying to do here
Caspian Inglewood: ah, Tibetan
Caspian Inglewood: ha ha
Caspian Inglewood: no offense, but always talk about levels
Pema Pera: we compare notes, and we discuss what we experience
Pema Pera: and we give each other our own angles
Pema Pera: but to judge which level is more advanced is a very tricky thing to do . . . .
Pema Pera: Also, I am not a meditation teacher
Caspian Inglewood: what is the level of this?
Caspian Inglewood: katsu! pay attention!
Pema Pera: Stim would be the right person to answer
Fael Illyar: tricky, even without the handicap of words.
Pema Pera: but I cannot guarantee that he would answer :-)
Pema Pera: yes, Stim may say “I have to meet you in RL to make sure”
Libby Sohl: everyones journey is so personal that i think levels is a difficult concept
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Caspian Inglewood: levels are like titles
Pema Pera: Having said all that, we also should not do as if it is all the same — like in everything, a true master deserves great respect, and we can learn a lot by paying attention to that person
Caspian Inglewood: guest and host
Caspian Inglewood: same or different?
Pema Pera: One danger of SL is that anyone can proclaim to teach about anything . . . . a lot of nonsense is produced that way
Bertrum Quan: Shakespear’s “sleep without dream” — Playas Being… we’re still discussing the nature of reality…
An interesting question comes up: are there more false claims being made in SL than in RL? The possibilities in SL may be larger, but what about the actuality?
Caspian Inglewood: ha ha, SL is the same as real life in that way then Pema
Pema Pera: more so than RL
Pema Pera: For one thing, there are more ways to fake here than in RL
Caspian Inglewood: reality is not what is, but rather whatever that you say that it is
Caspian Inglewood: Anthony de Mello said that once
Pema Pera: for another, people feel bolder here, without their true identity revealed
Caspian Inglewood: it is like this everywhere online Pema, no?
Caspian Inglewood: forums, chats…
Caspian Inglewood: everywhere you go
Libby Sohl: im unsure that more people pretand to be experts it is just a smaller space where people can target audiences easier
Bertrum Quan: We are exploring, in part the different perceptions… that comprise reality….
Caspian Inglewood: that is limitless Quan!
Caspian Inglewood: what a daunting task
Caspian Inglewood: like counting into infinity
Pema Pera: I’m not sure whether there is more misrepresentation in SL than in RL
Pema Pera: An interesting question
Pema Pera: there is a lot of misrepresentation in RL for sure
Caspian Inglewood: ha ha, I have become invisible
Pema Pera: I just think that the room for doing so in SL is even larger
Pema Pera: but on the other hand many people here are very serious and dedicated
Fael Illyar: It certainly is easier to find misrepresentation in SL but then, almost anything seems to be easier to find here.
Pema Pera: I don’t know what wins
Libby Sohl: another intresting question i think is how many of those people believe what the profess is true
Libby Sohl: people who misrepresent themselve do not always have bad intentions
Pema Pera: yes, Libby, many ways . . .
Caspian Inglewood: because everyone wants to know everything, they dismiss everything “else” as nonsense
Caspian Inglewood: or “been there done that-isms”
Pema Pera: lots of room for psychological and sociological investigations, for sure
Pema Pera: by and large I have been very impressed by what I have seen in SL
Pema Pera: dedication, seriousness,
Pema Pera: general good will
Libby Sohl: if anyone claims to know everything its a sure sign they know very little
Pema Pera: but my impression may have been biased, I’ve seen only a small part
Different aspects of SL are being discussed.
Caspian Inglewood: oh, they never will claim it
Caspian Inglewood: it is in their demeanor
Caspian Inglewood: dismissiveness
Caspian Inglewood: back talk
Caspian Inglewood: behind backs
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Caspian Inglewood: it is very much like kindergaten in SL
Caspian Inglewood: people whispering about others
Libby Sohl: it does seem to make people regress to a certain level
Caspian Inglewood: because they do not have guts enough to speak mind
Caspian Inglewood: ha ha ha
Libby Sohl: im a teacher and i see a lot of behaviour i would expect to see in the classroom
Caspian Inglewood: yes
Caspian Inglewood: much clicking Libby
Caspian Inglewood: there are those in
Caspian Inglewood: and those who are out
Caspian Inglewood: just like everywhere
Fael Illyar: it removes the inhibitors that people normally have in place because they’re afraid of consequences.
Libby Sohl: i guess its human nature
Libby Sohl: to form alliances to help them survive
Caspian Inglewood: yes
Libby Sohl: but the ego tends to break friendships easily
Caspian Inglewood: like bands of monkey
Caspian Inglewood: ha ha
Caspian Inglewood: and on and on it goes still
Caspian Inglewood: ahem
Pema Pera: Most people I have met in SL are not like that, though
Pema Pera: but again, I have met mostly people here in this area and in my astrophysics groups
Libby Sohl: i think it depends where you find yourself
Libby Sohl: people join sl for different reasons
Caspian Inglewood: this is true
Caspian Inglewood: you seek out certain areas
Caspian Inglewood: and avoid others
Fael Illyar: We somehow naturally tend to mostly just meet people who are in some ways similar to ourself.
Faenik: could be
Pema Pera: I’ve also met people playing go, who seemed all very decent, and I’ve spent some time in the Japanese sims where I’ve met really nice people
Pema Pera: Yes, Fael, great point!
Caspian Inglewood: yes
Caspian Inglewood: Little Yoshiwara, in particular
Caspian Inglewood: wonderful place
Fael Illyar: at least in SL, that is
Libby Sohl: I must run now but thank you all for your time and conversation
Fael Illyar: Ok, Bye Libby :)
Caspian Inglewood: goodbye Libby
Pema Pera: bye Libby!
Pema Pera: thanks for joining us
Libby takes off, and then I have to leave as well.
Caspian Inglewood: we will talk about you after you go
Libby Sohl: I’m sure i will see you all again soon
Bertrum Quan: bye Libby
Libby Sohl: lol im sure you will :-p
Caspian Inglewood: I do not understand SL romances
Pema Pera: well, I have to go too
Caspian Inglewood: lol
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Pema :)
Pema Pera: take care, everybody!
Caspian Inglewood: goodbye Pema
Bertrum Quan: bye Pema
Caspian Inglewood: we have attention spans of cocaine addict
Pema Pera: And Fael, you’ll send the missing snippet, right?
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes
