2008.07.20 13:00 - Growing in PaB

The guardian for this session was Maxine Walden.  The comments are hers.

Maxine Walden was the gardian at this session and the comments are hers

This gathering was a few hours after a Sunday morning Guardian meeting in which the group seemed to be gathering its own sense of authority during Pema's first absence from this group meeting due to his traveling and some initial discussion refers to that meeting

Maxine Walden: hi, Fael

Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)

Maxine Walden: how long did the Guardian meeting go on for? I left about 920

Maxine Walden: 9:20am

Fael Illyar: I think it ended about 10 minutes later

Faenik: why not?

Maxine Walden: thanks, so much to discuss...

Fael Illyar: Felt to me like it was mostly discussion that didn't get anywhere.

Maxine Walden: I had that feeling a bit as well, but also thought that this is what a group must do as it is forming...even if it seems a bit dithering

Maxine Walden: and in a way the group without Pema was/is forming a bit on its own

Maxine Walden: at least that was one thought I had

Fael Illyar: heh, yes, me too :)

Fael Illyar: If the conversation had been a bit more superfluous, I might have gotten enough of it and tried take the reins.

Still being slow on posting chatlogs on the wiki, I mention my intentions to Fael who has been so instrumental in bringing the wiki about

Maxine Walden: Just wanted to say that I have been looking closely at your tutorial for posting chatlogs on the wiki, and think I can do it now; but if I run into trouble I will write you

Fael Illyar: I'd prefer being on call realtime the next time you attempt it.

Fael Illyar: if possible

Maxine Walden: I'm not sure what you mean

Fael Illyar: Meaning that I'd like you to ask me if you run into problems :)

Fael Illyar: realtime communication, like this one works better for tech-support.

Maxine Walden: oh, I would like that too. Today at 2pm I have another meeting so will need to leave a couple of minutes early and will likely not post the chatlog til later this afternoon SL time. But if I knew when you might be available I could try to arrange to walk through it when you might be available for backup.

Maxine Walden: to walk through the steps to posting it when you might be availabe if I needed

Fael Illyar: It's getting close to me bedtime though.

Fael Illyar: I should be sleeping after 3 hours

Maxine Walden: I thought so, so maybe I could give it a good try and then note questions to talk with you about later

Adams then joins us

Maxine Walden: hi, Adams

Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)

Adams Rubble: Hello Fael and Maxine

Faenik: could be

Maxine Walden: As you can see, Adams, we were talking a bit about the guardian meeting this morning and then I about Fael's chatlog tutorial and my possible needs in that direction

Adams Rubble: I can see the tutorial part :)

Maxine Walden: yes, I am not as computer savvy as you all are, so appreciate tolerance and help

Adams Rubble: If I can help at all, please let me know

Fael Illyar: It'd be good if there was someone Maxine can ask for help posting the chatlog later today.

Maxine Walden: we also were just mentioning a bit about the guardian meeting this morning; and how some of the effort may have been toward forming our group

Pia then joins us

Fael Illyar: Hi Pia

Adams Rubble: Hi Pia

Maxine Walden: hi, Pia

Pia Iger: hello, there,

Adams Rubble: If I am not on tonight Maxine, please fell free to email me

We then were joined by someone briefly

Pia Iger: Hi, Manape

Fael Illyar: Hello Manape

Manape Betsen: hi, do you guys mind if I join you?

Maxine Walden: oh, thanks, Adams; if I run into trouble I may do that

Fael Illyar: Not at all, please take a seat :)

Adams Rubble: No welcome Mnape

Maxine Walden: hello, Manape, please join us

Maxine Walden: I am not sure we have met, Manape. Have you been to these meetings before?

And another detail, a PaB notecard is mentioned, another item Fael and others have worked on

Pia Iger: how to make note card? we use current PaB in Nutshell inof.

Fael Illyar: Is the page looked over by everyone yet?

Maxine Walden: ah, disappeared for now

Pia Iger: or we don't need it all.

Faenik: could be

Maxine Walden: these various items for consideration, could leave little time for just 'being' when we meet

Fael Illyar: Ah, looks like you improved it a lot, Pia :)

Maxine Walden: yes, thanks Fael, for all your attention to these various details

Pia Iger: not really, I can axe it more:)

Pia Iger: ok, to seriously

Fael Illyar: It's much better than it was :)

Pia then brings up an issue Pema had raised about seeing in a broad wholistic way

Pia Iger: after Pema posted the Seeing email,

Pia Iger: I was thinking about the way he said to see with "not just the eye", see with "whole body, mind'

Pia Iger: do you guys have any experience like that?

Faenik loves wells!

Pia Iger did not use the exact words.

Fael then refers to some feedback she has received from Pema about her way of 'seeing'

Fael Illyar: After the email I received from Pema a while ago, I find myself increasingly thinking that what I consider normal is closer to Being than ... I wonder what word goes here.

Pia Iger: so, Fael is intuitively doing that.

Maxine Walden: yes, when I am in a musing sort of mood, I often have that mind-body sort of seeing experience;

Fael Illyar: Pema had apparently been going over the backlog of meetings and has decided I'm very close.

Maxine Walden: very close? Fael

Fael Illyar: moment, I'll open the email

Faenik: why not?

Pia Iger: while waiting, Maxine, can you tell more of how you felt?

Fael Illyar: First, in the message is a quote from me from a meeting: Fael Illyar: I guess the thing that is pushing this change might actually be a solid decision to not stand in my own way

Maxine Walden: let's see, yes, there is a certain quiet alertness in body and mind, thinking as well as using the other senses, sort of seeing from that wider perspective ...

Fael Illyar: And even though you later softened that a bit, the

meaning came across clearly. In my way of talking,

I recognized Being speaking (so to speak :).

Fael Illyar: that's Pema's writing

Maxine Walden: please, Fael, go on; very nice, Fael, to hear that

Adams Rubble: that's good fael :)

Fael Illyar: ok, here's the rest of the paragraph:

Fael Illyar: And

when you then talked about how your unconsciousness

is figuring things out for you, I recognized even

more clearly that you were getting closer to what

I have been trying to point to. This is why I

started PaB, to share with others what I've found,

and then to collaborate with them in order to find

out more about Being together. You're getting close!

Maxine Walden: how nice; thanks for sharing that with us. Must feel very good to get that email from Pema

Fael Illyar: Well, yes. Gives me some assurance that the thoughts I'd been having weren't just me with my head in the clouds.

We continue to think and comment on Fael's message from Pema and further understandings about meanings of the unconscious/subconscious and its wisdom, and the confidence it brings

Maxine Walden: yes, indeed, good to have that reassurance

Maxine Walden: Pia, were you having questions?

Pia Iger: sorry, just reading the message.

Faenik: indeed?

Pia Iger: specially 'your unconsciousness is figuring things out for you'

Fael Illyar: I'm wondering if I should just forward this email to the mailing list

Pia Iger: can you tell more, Fael?

Fael Illyar: there's a lot more :)

Pia Iger: (oh, you need Pema ok that too, right?)

Fael Illyar: I don't think the message has anything Pema wouldn't want public. Probably on the contrary.

Adams Rubble: who's unconscious?

Adams Rubble: unconsciousness

Fael Illyar: I think I used the term subconscious

Pia Iger: (but still , it is not pubic email)

Fael Illyar: come to think of it, subconscious ... if I was asked what it is, the answer would be "I don't know"

Pia Iger: or hard to describe.

Fael Illyar: except that it's there and I can have it do things for me.

Fael Illyar: and that it does things all the time.

Pia Iger: what kind of thing it did?

Fael Illyar: I don't spend much time worrying about things, I consider them until there's nothing new immediately to be realized and then forget. Leave it to my "subconscious" to handle

Fael Illyar: often happens that when I remember the issue the next time, I know much more.

Maxine Walden: In my experience the unconscious or subconscious is working all the time out of our awareness, and indeed it solves a lot of issues as it were in our sleep

Maxine Walden: but is so intriguing that we are not consciously aware of that wise part of us most of the time

Fael Illyar: I find the best effect is usually after I've slept

Maxine Walden: yes, me too

Maxine Walden: like an intelligence has worked on our behalf

Maxine Walden: while we are re-integrating during sleep

Fael Illyar: I've long had the feeling subconscious has much better resources in handling things than my conscious mind.

Maxine Walden: that is my experience as well; much wiser and more resourceful

Faenik: ﾈﾙﾇ^^

Fael Illyar: So when I'm making choices, I tend to look up all kinds of facts and information, then end up choosing whatever feels best. Not really remembering all the things I went through consicously.

Maxine Walden: using your intuitive mind perhaps, or that which has gathered all the bits together and weighed them via the unconscious

Fael Illyar: something like that

Fael Illyar: I do surprisingly few choices that I'd consider to be wrong.

Maxine Walden: very nice

Fael Illyar: although, so far that has mostly applied to just bigger choices.

Maxine Walden: but perhaps it will filter down to smaller choices as well?

Fael Illyar remembers all the times when she has been feeling that it's a bad choice to pick this one but picking it anyway for some unfathomable reason.

Pia and Adams bring up the issue of doubt and hesitation and Fael clarifies previous 'bad choices' which seem less since the practice of PaB

Pia Iger: were there no conflicts? or hesitation?

Fael Illyar: yes, bad choice every single time

Fael Illyar: but those were all smaller choices

Fael Illyar: and come to think of it, I don't remember one of those since start PaB

Adams Rubble has made lots of bad decisions in life :)

Pia Iger: me, too, Adams

Maxine Walden: ah...

Pia Iger: so since PaB, maybe you are much less standing in the way.

Adams Rubble: who?

Maxine Walden: not sure

Fael Illyar: Yes, could very much be

Faenik loves wells!

Pia Iger: Fael said she made decision not to stand in her own way.

Adams Rubble: ah

Pia Iger: or I can paraphrase, not let "small mind" stand in the way of "big mind"?

Fael Illyar: :)

Pia Iger: You think so, Fael? my paraphrase was not off.

Fael Illyar: umm, I liked the sentence :)

Pia Iger: :)

As I had another meeting to attend I had to go and do so as there seems to be a pause in the conversation

Maxine Walden: I will be going in a minute or so, just to mention it and will take the chatlog

Fael Illyar: Ah, ok, See you later then Maxine :)

Maxine Walden: so , bye for now.