2008.07.28 07:00 - Open Source

That morning, a triple-A group of guardians, Adams, Adelene, and Avastu, is already present at the pavilion when I arrive.

Pema Pera: Good morning!
Avastu Maruti: hello again my friend
Adams Rubble: Hello Pema
Pema Pera: Hi Adelene!
Pema Pera: Hi Adams!
Adams Rubble: Hello Avastu
Adelene Dawner: ‘lo :)
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Adams Rubble: Hello Adelene
Pema Pera: Has everybody here met each other yet?
Adams Rubble: I haven’t met Adelene yet but I have read her poetry
Adelene Dawner: I don’t think I’ve met Adams…
Adams Rubble: nice to meet you Adelene
Adelene Dawner: :)
Pema Pera: Adelene just accepted our invitation to become a guardian — thank you, Adelene!
Adelene Dawner: :)
Adelene Dawner: …still somewhat word-impaired, sorry :)
Pema Pera: It is so nice to see everyone bringing in his or her unique point of view
Adelene Dawner should be back to ‘normal’ tomorrow.
Pema Pera: just the four of us here, so different already :-)
Pema Pera: Yes, Adelene
Pema Pera: you mentioned that to me earlier
Pema Pera: is this something that happens to you occasionally
Pema Pera: for a few days at a time?
Pema Pera: I like the way your avatar is weaving words . . . .
Adelene Dawner: A bit more than ‘occasionally’, though it’s not an all-the-time thing. My brainstate tends to be un-constant in general… most specific states last three days plus one sleep.
Pema Pera: it must be quite a challenge to live with that . . . I’m not sure what words to use here
Adelene Dawner: (So for example, when I had that intense being-Being experience last Tuesday night, it lasted into Wednesday, then the aftereffects went on through Thursday and Friday, and I was back to normal when I woke up Saturday.
Pema Pera: ah, three days holds as a duration, typically for most transitions?
Adelene Dawner: Not really too challenging. I’m used to it. And it has its upside, too… strong emotional states follow that rule as well, for example, so even if something really upsets me I know that it’ll pass, all I have to do is wait it out.
Adelene Dawner: ‘Transitions’ isn’t accurate, but the three days is a very recurring theme.

I mention Adams’ blog.

Pema Pera: Three days is an interesting duration — Two days ago I asked Adams to do something for three days. . . even overlapping with my previous three-day advise :) And reading your blog, Adams, it seems you’ve been at it!
Pema Pera: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com/
Adams Rubble is not sure how to respond
Pema Pera: you don’t have to
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: until you feel ready to
Pema Pera: I am so impressed that you are willing to continue to write
Pema Pera: even though you are going through experiences that are almost un-write-about-able :)
Pema Pera: especially while they occur
Pema Pera: much easier to write a few days later looking back
Pema Pera: but then filtered through memory
Pema Pera: I thoroughly admire your courage
Pema Pera: to write about them while you are going through them,
Pema Pera: and believe me, it shines through . . . far more than you may think . . . . not even so much what you write but the way in which you write it
Pema Pera: thank you. Adams!
Adams Rubble: :)
Pema Pera: I’m sure Cal will be pleased to :)
Pema Pera: I can just see her wise cracking about it :>)
Adams Rubble: Things are still a little mixed. I haven’t told you, maybe I didn;t recognize them earlier, that I still have some negative feelings bout our talk last Saturday
Adams Rubble: As you say, a little time helps sort that out
Pema Pera: please let me know, I would love to hear
Pema Pera: honestly
Adams Rubble: I still feel some resentment and some suspicion that wasn’t there before

Doc drops by, and I see from his profile that Japanese is one of his languages.

Pema Pera: Hi Doc!
Doc Freenote: hi
Adams Rubble: Hello Doc
Pema Pera: come join us
Doc Freenote: i am waiting for someone to say “whats up doc”
Doc Freenote: thanks
Adams Rubble: hehe. I was resisting doing it
Doc Freenote: what is going on here
Pema Pera: haha, yes
Pema Pera: we are getting together a few times a day
Pema Pera: talking about the nature of reality
Doc Freenote: sounds heavy
Doc Freenote: but interesting
Pema Pera: 日本語を話しますか？
Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ is our web site
Pema Pera: not so heavy
Doc Freenote: 話せるよ
Pema Pera: it is called Play as Being
Pema Pera: ああ凄い
Pema Pera: 日本人ですか？
Doc Freenote: どうだどう
Doc Freenote: 日本人ではありません

At that moment, I hit a wrong key combination, and next thing I know is that I’m back at my home position, in front of my little hut, which happens to be only 50 meters or so from the pavilion. I quickly walk back to the circle. I then answer Doc question, whether I am Japanese, after Doc told me he isn’t Japanese either.

Pema Pera: sorry about that!
Doc Freenote: 日本人ですか
Pema Pera: the conversion key between Japanese and English is close to the “go home” key
Pema Pera: fortunately my home is just around the corner :)
Doc Freenote: i see
Pema Pera: No, I am not Japanese, I am from Holland
Pema Pera: Briefly, we explore a kind of practice or exploration
Doc Freenote: but you speak japanese well it seems
Doc Freenote: can everyone here speak japanese?
Pema Pera: dropping what we normally identify with
Pema Pera: where we spend 9 seconds every 15 minutes in daily life and/or here in SL
Adams Rubble thinks Pema is fluent in many kinds of languages
Pema Pera: no, just me
Pema Pera: and a few others who aren’t here yet
Pema Pera: and four times a day we get together here to reflect on our explorations
Doc Freenote: i don’t really follow
Doc Freenote: about the first part
Pema Pera: Play as Being : play means we do it lightly, but still seriously
Pema Pera: Being is what we are interested
Pema Pera: when you drop what you have, you may find what you are
Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ will give more background
Doc Freenote: this sounds Heideggerian
Pema Pera: It touches on that as well as the core of most religions as well as what I think science is move too over the centuries
Pema Pera: if you don’t mind
Pema Pera: perhaps Adams can continue her story
Pema Pera: about a discussion we had two days ago
Doc Freenote: please
Pema Pera: a bit more intense than most discussions
Doc Freenote: sorry to intrude. . . i can observe . . .
Doc Freenote: listen
Pema Pera: thanks, Doc — this is an open meeting
Pema Pera: anyone is free to come and go, any time
Doc Freenote: i see

Back to Adams.

Adams Rubble: Maybe it is too soon to talk about it Pema but I thought you should know that the feelings are there.
Doc Freenote: can i have that web address again though?
Pema Pera: http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
Doc Freenote: or is there some way to see my chat history?
Pema Pera: yes there is
Adams Rubble: I find myself wondering why you were suddenly so harsh and I guess I am not completely accepting that it is Being talking
Pema Pera: click on “communicate” in the lower left corner
Pema Pera: then “local chat” is the label at the bottom of the window that opens up
Pema Pera: it has the whole history of your session
Doc Freenote: ah, got it thanks!
Adams Rubble: The feelings are not as strong as they were on Saturday night but they are there lurking
Adams Rubble: I thought you should know because maybe it is the wrong technique
Adams Rubble: or maybe in time it will work out
Pema Pera: edit->preferences->communication and then click on all boxes to mark them except the top one — that lets you record everything onto your hard disk, Doc
Pema Pera: yes, we’ll see Adams, how it will work out, but definitely, I’d like to know about them
Doc Freenote: thanks
Adams Rubble: I think I told you :)
Adams Rubble: The experience Saturday night was extraordinary though
Pema Pera: what is it especially, can you put your finger on it, what caused, say, resentment? Yes, you mentioned it — the fact that I came on so strong, or that I gave different instructions at different times or . . . .?

We talk about harshness.

Adams Rubble: The resentment is to the harshness; I thought it wasn’t necessary
Pema Pera: ah, thank you!
Pema Pera: If I may, I can describe from my side what I felt
Adams Rubble: The instructions turned out to be perfect
Pema Pera: but I have to speak two languages
Pema Pera: In the language of identifying me with Pema Pera / Piet Hut as the roles I am playing here in SL and RL
Adelene Dawner: Sometimes it’s necessary to be harsh, and often it’s hard to tell whether it’s necessary or not. Pema’s human and falable just like the rest of us.
Pema Pera: the harshness was simply a way to push through a kind of barrier
Pema Pera: yes, indeed Adelene
Pema Pera: looking back, I am 95% sure it was the right thing
Pema Pera: and 5% unsure
Adams Rubble knows that, but thank you Adeline :)
Pema Pera: how do I know?
Pema Pera: both my own experience and that of others
Pema Pera: I have been pushed myself by many different teachers
Pema Pera: face-to-face
Pema Pera: in dreams sometimes
Pema Pera: through books sometimes
Pema Pera: just walking on the street sometimes
Pema Pera: I’d be happy to say more, at some other occasion
Pema Pera: and I’ve seen very many others being pushed
Pema Pera: where I was present myself in RL
Pema Pera: or having read about them in historical accounts
Pema Pera: but this is all the one language I talked about
Pema Pera: Now let me tell the story in the other language
Pema Pera: The language of what I call Being
Pema Pera: what I did while I was talking was not calculating
Pema Pera: or judging
Pema Pera: or thinking “what would help Adams”
Pema Pera: if I had done that, I would not have said anything at all
Pema Pera: who am I to know/judge?
Pema Pera: I’ve never met you in person, I’m talking from av to av
Pema Pera: how can I possibly take the risk to speak so harshly
Pema Pera: across all these communication barriers?
Pema Pera: However, I did not do anything but
Pema Pera: stepping aside
Pema Pera: very literally so
Pema Pera: I was watching while I was typing
Pema Pera: and I was equally amazed at and interested in each sentence as it came out
Pema Pera: if at any time I would have wanted to steer, making what I said less hars or more harsh or anything else
Pema Pera: I would have done grave violence to the situation
Pema Pera: so I had no choice
Pema Pera: I was like a passenger in a jet
Pema Pera: watching over the shoulder of the pilot
Pema Pera: I was in no position to hijack the plane :-)
Pema Pera: and I trusted what happened
Pema Pera: I have learned to trust that over the years and decades
Pema Pera: The only role of the first language is to look back and do a kind of customer’s check
Pema Pera: like “was that the right airline to take?”
Pema Pera: and so far so good — seems like it was :)
Pema Pera: Does that make any sense, Adams?

It must have been a somewhat puzzling conversation for Doc.

Doc Freenote: can i ask the context of all this? what happened? an impartial perspective might be useful
Pema Pera: http://rubblebornthoughts.wordpress.com/ is her blog, Doc
Adams Rubble: Especially from what you said, it is important for me to understand this…
Adams Rubble: one thing you are saying was that this was kind of impersonal
Adams Rubble: but still directed at me
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: at the impersonal Being represented by you
Adams Rubble: that is a bit of a paradox for me but I will think about that
Pema Pera: that wanted to come out
Pema Pera: hidden a bit still in you
Pema Pera: under the bandaids
Pema Pera: I was pulling off some bandaids
Adelene Dawner: Sounds like it was personally directed to Adams but not personally coming from Pema. :)
Pema Pera: we used that image literally
Adams Rubble: The bandaid analogy is better than the dentist one :)
Pema Pera: hahaha, yes
Pema Pera: just wanted to show you that I had still only been very meek in comparison to going full throttle :)
Pema Pera: I think that was Cal’s image, the bandaid one, wasn’t it?
Pema Pera: Yes, Adelene, not personally coming from me, for sure!
Adams Rubble doesn’t remember all the details
Adams Rubble: Well, from what you said, then you understand the residual feelings
Pema Pera: of course I did!
Adams Rubble: I guess that was a question
Adams Rubble: Ah
Pema Pera: As I emailed you, I would not have believed you if you said you didn’t
Pema Pera: I would in your case
Pema Pera: if you had said you didn’t I would have had to hammer harder, to get through THAT denial :)
Adams Rubble: Oh my
Pema Pera: perhaps take my dentist drill haha — sorry to joke about it –
Pema Pera: but I’m very glad you could be so honest
Adams Rubble: no no, you should drop the dentist
Pema Pera: and show your honest feelings
Pema Pera: hahaha, no need for dentist now
Adams Rubble: first I wasn;t in evident pain…
Adams Rubble: secondly dentists fix teeth…not pull them
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: may I quote a few lines, Adams?
Pema Pera: from that conversation
Pema Pera: btw, Doc, we put most of what we talk about here on our web site, on the blog
Pema Pera: is it okay to include your part of the conversation too?
Doc Freenote: on your blog?
Doc Freenote: this is interesting . . .from what i gather, it gets at the imperfect nature of language and communication
Adams Rubble: and yes, Pema, go on
Adams Rubble: please

Doc’s questions give us an extra opening to clarify ourselves.

Doc Freenote: is this therapy or training with Pema as guru?
Adams Rubble: Doc, just let me interject that out conversations usually aren’t as intense as this one. It is not a good one to understand us in that way. We usually share more gently. But this is necessary :)
Doc Freenote: i think when a zen monk thwacks his student he is not called on to justify himself
Adams Rubble: Pema, I am sorry that I used the interjection before the door handle
Adams Rubble: I am not zen, Doc
Pema Pera: no, I’m not a guru or teacher in any way, Doc
Doc Freenote: i see
Pema Pera: I am a scientist
Pema Pera: and an open source programmer
Pema Pera: I like “open source” and full disclosure
Pema Pera: a new mode of dealing with old teachings
Doc Freenote: but your role here seems somewhat didactic
Pema Pera: I have learned enough about the old teachings over the years that I could play the role of a teacher if I wanted
Adams Rubble: Doc, that is what I am trying to understand with this conversation
Pema Pera: but I don’t want to do that
Pema Pera: would be too limited
Pema Pera: I am trying to explore a whole new approach
Pema Pera: the image of a fish and a fishing rod comes to mind
Pema Pera: teaching is like giving someone a fishing rod
Pema Pera: better than a fish
Pema Pera: what I’m doing is trying to establish a fishing rod factory
Pema Pera: a new approach to teaching, as a groups process, as open source
Pema Pera: not like microsoft, more like Linux
Doc Freenote: but ultimately we learn to fish on our own
Pema Pera: of course
Doc Freenote: it is not the rod that catches the fish
Pema Pera: sure
Pema Pera: traditionally, a teacher showed you — perhaps in this day and age, a group of peers is a better way, or at least an alternative way, to show each other how to find and use fishing rods
Doc Freenote: i grasp your concept, but from what i have observed, there does not seem to be a lot of back and forth / collaboration
Pema Pera: so you’re right, if I were a Zen teacher I would not justify myself, but in PaB here, I do want to justify, to the extent I can
Pema Pera: can you say more, Doc?
Doc Freenote: well, just from my observation
Doc Freenote: brief as it has been
Doc Freenote: my sense is that you are deeply invested in your approach
Pema Pera: in an open source collaboration, there are brief moments in which one more experienced programmer sets up something, for others to work on and with further
Doc Freenote: and you feel quite justified about what you wrote
Pema Pera: so you are seeing a snapshot
Doc Freenote: to adams
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: and I am willing to stand corrected
Doc Freenote: i see
Pema Pera: sorry to talk so much right now — but texting is slow, and I wanted to give a complete answer

Having mentioned the open nature of our enterprise, I invited other voices to come in, even though Adelene had already hers a few times.

Pema Pera: Adelene and Avastu, what do you think?
Doc Freenote: yes, my observations are somewhat dangerous because they are based on such limited exposure
Pema Pera: we hope you’ll be coming back :)
Pema Pera: I’d love to hear from both Avastu and Adelene how what I say fits with their understanding
Pema Pera: what they recognize
Doc Freenote: yeah you guys are silent
Avastu Maruti: you are doing fine, my friend
Pema Pera: http://avastu0.blogspot.com/ is Avastu’s blog, very much worth reading
Adams Rubble thinks she was collaborating
Avastu Maruti: beliefs become hard - sometimes a hammer is necessary to break through
Pema Pera: yes, you were Adams
Pema Pera: and I appreciate that very much!
Pema Pera: Adelene, shall I give a blog URL for you too?
Pema Pera: in http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/being-is-seeing-being/ there are several URLs
Doc Freenote: thanks
Pema Pera: relevant for Adelene’s background
Adelene Dawner is not here, in IM with Gaya, moderately important, sorry.
Pema Pera: fine, Adelene!
Pema Pera: so now you have pointers to all of us, Doc :)
Doc Freenote: i just checked out Avastu’s
Pema Pera: Avastu has his own group here in SL
Doc Freenote: interesting. kind of eerie, i had a thought similar to some of the ideas expressed there just about an hour ago
Pema Pera: can you say more?
Doc Freenote: well it is a concept that i have kicked around for a while
Doc Freenote: but always hard to remember
Pema Pera: oops
Pema Pera: I have to go to an astro meeting
Pema Pera: sorry
Pema Pera: completely forgot the time
Pema Pera: already 3 minutes late
Pema Pera: this was too interesting!
Doc Freenote: something like samsara=nibbana
Adams Rubble: bye Pema
Pema Pera: Adams, can you send me the chat log later?
Doc Freenote: being human
Pema Pera: I do want to hear what Doc said
Pema Pera: sorry again — c u all later!
Doc Freenote: hard to convey
Adams Rubble: yes Pema
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Doc Freenote: leaving?
Adams Rubble: Yes, Doc. He is leaving but if you finish, I will send him the log
Doc Freenote: okay
Doc Freenote: thanks, , , see ya pema

The rest of the log was supplied by Adams Rubble with just one comment

Doc Freenote: the thing is i think it is just perhaps a concept that comes from a kind of perhaps orientalist view of buddhism
Doc Freenote: anyways
Doc Freenote: this time it was not in buddhist terms
Doc Freenote: i don't really think in those terms anymore
Doc Freenote: but just the idea is that being human is sometimes suffering and drama
Doc Freenote: and it doesn't matter
Doc Freenote: that is being human
Doc Freenote: it is not MY suffering or anything
Doc Freenote: it is just human stuff
Doc Freenote: so there is an idea of being able to let go more easily with that concept in mind
Doc Freenote: some of the stuff on your blog reminded me of this when i scanned it
Avastu Maruti: yes
Doc Freenote: but it is all easy to postulate
Doc Freenote: the important thing is good habits isn't it
Doc Freenote: habits of calmness and centerdness
Doc Freenote: and sleep and wakefullness
Doc Freenote: what do you think?
Avastu Maruti: IN WHAT does this human experience happen?
Doc Freenote: our minds?
Avastu Maruti: isn't the mind part of this experience?
Doc Freenote: sure
Doc Freenote: but what are you getting at?
Avastu Maruti: what is the truth of your existence?
Doc Freenote: that is all so pie in the sky. . . truth of your existence is a phrase without much meaning to me
Avastu Maruti: of course
Doc Freenote: the truth though is ups and downs
Doc Freenote: and ideally it is practicing some kind of peace
Doc Freenote: of mind and spirit and action
Avastu Maruti: does Peace need practicing?
Doc Freenote: well i think peace is a practice
Avastu Maruti: who thinks?
Avastu Maruti: aren't thoughts arising in awareness?
Avastu Maruti: who is the thinker?
Doc Freenote: who cares
Avastu Maruti: exactly
Doc Freenote: why do you ask then
Avastu Maruti: why do I ask what?
Doc Freenote: who is the thinker
Avastu Maruti: I am not asking "you"
Doc Freenote: sure, i know
Doc Freenote: i mean why ask the question in general
Avastu Maruti: questions come, answers come - what I AM, what YOU ARE, is not affected
Adams Rubble: Yes
Doc Freenote: okay, , ,
Doc Freenote: so?
Avastu Maruti: so what?
Doc Freenote: great tune
Doc Freenote: think i am going to spin that in itunes
Doc Freenote: you guys know that one?
Doc Freenote: miles
Avastu Maruti: not sure what you're speaking ok
Avastu Maruti: *of
Adams Rubble: me neither
Doc Freenote: a tune by miles davis on Kind of Blue: So What
Doc Freenote: sorry
Adams Rubble: :)
Doc Freenote: unbelievable song
Doc Freenote: a zen paining
Doc Freenote: painting
Adams Rubble likes that typo
Doc Freenote: haha
Doc Freenote: it could easily fill in for the chimes in this room
Adams Rubble wonders what Avastu's hammer might look like
Doc Freenote: hammer?
Adams Rubble: Avastu said that sometimes a hammer is needed to break through resistance
Adams Rubble: Avastu does very well without a hammer :)
Adams Rubble: That is said with great respect

Doc Freenote: do i need to be hammered?
Adams Rubble: Please don;t take that personally
Doc Freenote: how could i
Adams Rubble: I was talking in generalities
Doc Freenote: the thing is
Doc Freenote: why is a hammer ever necessary, unless it is a case where we are trying to get through to someone we are really invested in
Doc Freenote: i will leave here with my view of the world and you each with your own
Doc Freenote: which is the nature of the world
Doc Freenote: so my sense is that if someone has a strong desire to hammer through to reach someone
Doc Freenote: there has to be some kind of real need for a relationship there or something. a need for respect . . .
Doc Freenote: i don't think it is possible to take anything "personal" in SL
Doc Freenote: do you?
Adams Rubble: But people do all the time
Doc Freenote: really?
Adams Rubble: Yes
Doc Freenote: bizarre
Doc Freenote: well, don't take this personally, but I have to hit they hay
Adams Rubble: We form relationships in SL much like in RL
Doc Freenote: i see
Adams Rubble: Wll, it was nice meeting you, Doc :)
Doc Freenote: likewise
Adams Rubble: bye :)
Doc Freenote: bye
Doc Freenote: see ya Avatsu
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Doc Freenote: so long
Adams Rubble: :)
Doc Freenote: whoa, i think my legs fell asleep
Adams Rubble: Avastu, it is good to see you again. I need to go now. Take care :)
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Adams Rubble: bye :)