2008.07.19 13:00 - Pause and see as being

The guardian for the meeting was Dakini Rhode.  The comments are Dakini's.

Adams, Dakini, Fael, Neela, Pia, Quilty, and Resting Thor enjoyed our teatime conversation

I was late to the 1PM session.  SL was acting up, and I was having trouble dressing...

Cannot complete attachment. An attachment is pending for that spot.

Finally I settled on a safe pants outfit and arrived late, to fanfare...!  I'm thankful this group is so forgiving...

MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Quilty Bookmite (18m), Fael Illyar (18m), Pia Iger (19m), Adams Rubble (19m), Neela Blaisdale (19m)
Quilty Bookmite: I really don't mind. :-)
Neela Blaisdale: Here she comes!
Adams Rubble: hi Dakini :)
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Dakini
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Dakini
Adams Rubble: let the trumpets sound
Dakini Rhode: hi, so sorry i'm late
Neela Blaisdale: np
Dakini Rhode: i'm surprised i wasn't in the water just then....
Adams Rubble: np
Neela Blaisdale: :)
Quilty Bookmite: For all the identity thieves out there, I'll save you the bother. I don't use my anniversary date as a password. :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Quilty Bookmite: Too much green tea, Dakini? :-)
Dakini Rhode: hi Fael, Adams, Neela, Pia, and Quilty :)
Pia Iger: Hi, Dakini
Faenik: indeed?
Fael Illyar: Hi Dakini :)
Dakini Rhode: s l o w l y rezzing :)
Adams Rubble: SL is slow for me today :)
Dakini Rhode: i've had that symptom myself today :)
Faenik: indeed?
Quilty Bookmite: It's RL that's slow for me. :-)
Fael Illyar: it's weekend :)
Tea Cup whispers: Tea Time!
Dakini Rhode: didn't like sitting across from everyone :P
Pia Iger: we look like 5 students.
Dakini Rhode: Pia, you look the same :)
Adams Rubble thinks we make a pretty picture here close together
Dakini Rhode: I can't say that about everyone else...
Adams Rubble: :)
Dakini Rhode: yes, a pretty picture
Dakini Rhode: (hint?)
Adams Rubble: :)
Dakini Rhode: i still have a little grey in my viewer...
Faenik: indeed?
Dakini Rhode: indeed, Faenik :)
Neela Blaisdale: Wow
Dakini Rhode: slowness
Fael Illyar: Quite slow rezzing then
Adams Rubble: whoa. could crash doing that
Dakini Rhode: Neela's skirt texture seems the last holdout :)
Neela Blaisdale: Tea?
Quilty Bookmite: My comments are arriving rather late. how strange.
Adams Rubble: That has happened to me the last few days
Quilty Bookmite: Seems to have resolved itself.
Dakini Rhode: packet lag :P
Adams Rubble: Ah, a phrse for everything :)
Adams Rubble: phrase
Quilty Bookmite: Keeps your packets nice and warm. :-)
Neela Blaisdale: :)
Dakini Rhode: haha got me laughing
Adams Rubble: :)
Pia Iger: I have not had much lag issue from I started SL
Adams Rubble: Good equipment Pia :)
Dakini Rhode: i covet your connection, Pia :)
Pia Iger: maybe I am a light traveler.
Adams Rubble carries much baggage
Faenik: ah :)
Dakini Rhode cannot travel without a hud
Neela Blaisdale: Sorry just looking for my tea
Quilty Bookmite: I made a few tweeks to my settings. Seemed to speed things up a little.
Adams Rubble hopes Dakini doesn't lose her hud
Dakini Rhode: i have my settings at the lowest possible, i think, but i dont have a gaming computer, this was designed for business
Dakini Rhode: lol Adams
Quilty Bookmite: So was mine. It's a laptop, a couple of years old now. :-)
Neela Blaisdale: Mine finally dies 2 days ago,
Dakini Rhode: well, anyone who can rez Neela's skirt is welcome to take today's snap
Adams Rubble: I did already...almost crashed in process :)
Quilty Bookmite: Fortunately, SL is forbidden to me when I am working. Can;t connect.
Quilty Bookmite: Can do.
Neela Blaisdale: Me too
Dakini Rhode thanks Adams for the sacrifice

Adams prodded us to get on topic.

Adams Rubble: Should we be discussing Pema's experiment (Adams says with some trepidation)
Quilty Bookmite: Got it.
Dakini Rhode: haha I guess so, Adams :)
Pia Iger: I feel it is natural step from 9 sec
Neela Blaisdale: I find it hard to remember to try every hour
Adams Rubble: I did three so far which is funnt because I have no idea what Being is
Adams Rubble: funny
Dakini Rhode shares Adams' bewilderment
Pia Iger: I have been doing my 9sec like that
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Neela Blaisdale: As we all don't
Dakini Rhode: perhaps it's the language throws us off
Adams Rubble: Interesting Pia
Dakini Rhode: i think i have, too, Pia
Pia Iger: first 3-4 sec to see my surroundings,
Dakini Rhode: expansion of the field...
Dakini Rhode: panoramic vision...
Pia Iger: then rest time see the world and myself as if from the eyes of Being (God, or Budda)
Dakini Rhode: different words i would use...
Adams Rubble: That is great Pia and Dakini :)
Adams Rubble: I havn't done anything like that before today
Dakini Rhode: when asked to "play as being" that was all i could come up with
Pia Iger: agree, Dakini
Dakini Rhode: but that's interesting, so maybe this new explanation of the practice will get us more onto the same page...
Adams Rubble: Yes
Dakini Rhode: MAYBE SOMEDAY WE'LL KNOW WHAT WE'RE DOING!!
Adams Rubble: :)
Neela Blaisdale: :):)
Pia Iger: are you yelling at Pema??
Adams Rubble: And you have been doing this all along?
Faenik loves wells!
Dakini Rhode: i don't know why i yelled that, actually... certainly not directed at PEMA

:->

Neela Blaisdale: I find it similar to how it feels doing walking meditation and trying to be mindful throughout
Adams Rubble: I would be interested to know whether you have experienced changes in your seeing
Neela Blaisdale: sort of heightened sensory experience
Adams Rubble: Hi Thor
Resting Thor: hi all :)
Dakini Rhode: oh what just dropped down from heaven
Neela Blaisdale: sometimes I notice more things or colors seem brighter

Rezzing Thor chose to sit on the same cushion Adams already occupied

Fael Illyar: Hi Resting
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Thor
Neela Blaisdale: Thor and Adams are one
Resting Thor: i'm still rezzing
Adams Rubble: I would be interested to know what Pia and Dakini have experienced as far as changes in seeing
Dakini Rhode: lol Thor there's an empty spot next to me...
Quilty Bookmite: thor you are sitting on Adams. :-)
Dakini Rhode: or Quilty...
Resting Thor: haha
Adams Rubble: Hey Thor!
Dakini Rhode: lol
Dakini Rhode: slow rezzin day...
Resting Thor: sorry adams
Resting Thor: :(
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble thinks she will not get an answer to her question
Pia Iger: thinking how to say.
Dakini Rhode: backing up...
Adams Rubble: :)
Quilty Bookmite: I don't know what I can say. I have been practicing meditation for about 12 years. Things don;t change very much for me.

Repeating Adams' question...

Dakini Rhode: Adams Rubble: I would be interested to know what Pia and Dakini have experienced as far as changes in seeing
Fael Illyar: I think since starting PaB, the small voice I still had judging things has gone rather silent.
Pia Iger: I feel the fundamental change of the sense of myself
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pia Iger: seems just learning the life lesson #1
Adams Rubble: does that come from the way you have been doing the nine seconds or from the sessions Pia?
Fael Illyar: I haven't felt much of a change my sense of self but I'm feeling quite abit more peaceful.
Pia Iger: combined.
Fael Illyar: less affected by ebbs and flows.
Adams Rubble: I am asking because the exercise seems to be rather self contained to me
Pia Iger: both are important to me.
Dakini Rhode: what do you mean by self contained, Adams?
Adams Rubble: I other words that it would give similar results
Adams Rubble: In
Dakini Rhode: that's interesting, because i've thought all along we might be all doing something slightly different, given the open nature of the instruction
Pia Iger: In the session we can get inspiration. but the real change of sense comes from your RL practice and realization.
Adams Rubble: I have been doing something different, Dakini
Faenik: ah :)
Dakini Rhode: I've had quite a bit of prior experience with meditation, so that I saw PaB as a reminder of my regular practice
Adams Rubble: I am new to meditation as meditation
Dakini Rhode: that may be a better vantage point from which to experience PaB fresh, Adams
Adams Rubble: This exercise is new to me today

Reminders to take a pause...

Fael Illyar: the bells every 15 minutes serve as a useful reset, pause during which I can remember other things I could be doing
Quilty Bookmite gave you Snapshot : The Pavilion for Play as Being, Rieul (177, 150, 75).
Adams Rubble: Yes fael, mine is closer to that
Neela Blaisdale: What do you do in RL to remind yourself?
Adams Rubble is just intrigued that people have been doing this exercise all along
Adams Rubble: Neela, I use a clock sometimes
Adams Rubble: the mindfulness clock
Neela Blaisdale: :)
Resting Thor: i wear a bracelet to help reminde me to be mindful :)
Pia Iger: nice, REsting

Resting Thor let go his teacup and exhibited the floating meditation effect along with the flexi prims respond to gravity effect - looking like he was held up by his heavily starched robes, perhaps?

Pia Iger: Resting has the dry cleaner as Dakini:)
Dakini Rhode: i formerly used transitions... like changing from one activity to another...for example, the phone rings: pause
Dakini Rhode: what?
Dakini Rhode: i'm a dry cleaner?
Dakini Rhode: lol
Pia Iger: using heavy starch on the robe:)
Dakini Rhode: lol
Neela Blaisdale: so the transitions would be a reminder to pratice the 9 sec?
Quilty Bookmite: the _same_ dry cleaner?
Dakini Rhode: prior to hearing about PaB, i called it a "mindfulness pause"
Dakini Rhode: or just a "pause"
Pia Iger: I heard of "Sacred Pause"
Dakini Rhode: when Pema explained PaB to me, it sounded like essentially the same idea
Dakini Rhode: School of Practical Philosophy, Pia?
Pia Iger: no, I read from notecard got at your Zazen
Adams Rubble: :)
Dakini Rhode: oh :)
Dakini Rhode wonders what all her notecards say...
Pia Iger: good cards.
Adams Rubble: It is intersting too to hear of diffeent ways to become aware
Neela Blaisdale: yes
Resting Thor: i like to pause to set my intention for the next activity... seed planting
Adams Rubble: yes, good cards, there and at tara
Dakini Rhode: yes, very good materials in there, thanks to Isen :)

For some reason when Quilty let go his teacup instead of the floating meditation he got the stuck arms effect...

Quilty Bookmite: Rigor mortis seems to have set in in my arms. :-)
Adams Rubble: Is there a doctor in the house?
Pia Iger: good point, Resting.
Dakini Rhode: Quilty, try Stop all Animations
Neela Blaisdale: :)
Dakini Rhode: touch that thing
Faenik loves wells!
Quilty Bookmite: Thanks.
Dakini Rhode: yw :)

Neela brought up a point Pia had made in another session about RL practice... which got us talking about realizations we had experienced.

Neela Blaisdale: I'm curious do you agree with Pia about change only happening in RL?
Neela Blaisdale: Hi Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: Tea drinking is so dangerous!
Neela Blaisdale: :)
Adams Rubble doesn't understand Neela's question
Dakini Rhode: could you say more about your question, Neela?
Resting Thor: it would have to apply to both RL and SL. i think Pia meant RL vs. meditation itself?
Neela Blaisdale: Pia said that the real sense of change has to come from Rl? Is that right Pia? So I was curious about what others thought about that?
Pia Iger: can I explain?
Neela Blaisdale: please
Adams Rubble: yes
Dakini Rhode: please :)
Pia Iger: the talking sessions here is for inspiration and support.
Pia Iger: The real change needs to come from your RL practice, the realization you will sense in RL.
Dakini Rhode: what is it that is changing, and where is it?
Faenik: indeed?
Pia Iger: to me , the change is my view of life and myself.
Pia Iger: It comes from my senses, my heart.
Pia Iger: they surface from inside. while before they were ignored
Adams Rubble: I think that bthose who of us who are starting this kind of cold are experiencing a whirlwind of change. Whether it will stick is still unknown, but a whole new outlook on things
Dakini Rhode: wow, good way to express it, Adams
Dakini Rhode: and thank you, Pia
Dakini Rhode: welcome to the path...
Neela Blaisdale: Yes ty both. for me some of the things I'm experiencing here lead me to certain questions in RL that are new
Pia Iger: I can share more specifically.
Quilty Bookmite: Please do.
Pia Iger: yesterday, I realize "I have so long ignore the "divine" nature of myself" during a 9 sec
Dakini Rhode: wow
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Dakini Rhode: maybe we could share some of our 9-sec insights?
Pia Iger: (I am not saying I am not human, but I feel I am more than the human the culture has told me)
Dakini Rhode: yes indeed, Pia
Faenik: indeed?
Adams Rubble: yes
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Dakini Rhode: have you taken that as something to explore further?
Pia Iger: yes, that is why I think what Pema said today is a natural stepforward to me
Dakini Rhode: could anyone repeat what Pema said today?
Dakini Rhode: (in a nutshell?)
Adams Rubble looks at her toes
Pia Iger: 1. see the world as human 2. see the world as Being
Quilty Bookmite: Pia, do you see Being as what you see in yourself which is "divine"?>
Pia Iger: yes. something beyond my normal status.
Quilty Bookmite: nods
Neela Blaisdale: Iwhen you say beyond your normal satus do you think it is always there and its your seeing that is different?
Pia Iger: yes. It is there. we did not see it.
Dakini Rhode: waiting for this very long thing that Thor is typing....

Resting Thor appeared to be typing for a long time, and the wait was worth it, as he aptly summarized the value of pausing...

Resting Thor: our normal status is the result of our normal perception and conceptualization. pausing changes our normal process of perception and conceptualization
Neela Blaisdale: Yes
Pia Iger: nods
Adams Rubble: yes
Dakini Rhode: don't know what to say but to agree, Thor
Resting Thor: sorry stating the obvious :)
Dakini Rhode: and very well :)
Quilty Bookmite: I think Pia has had some very useful insight. Unfortunately I must go. :-(
Dakini Rhode: maybe not so obvious, either :)
Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.

We discuss conceptualization

Adams Rubble: Yes, I am glad the conceptualization ihas been added to the discussion
Dakini Rhode: nite, Quilty :)
Resting Thor: gnight quilty
Fael Illyar: See you later Quilty :)
Neela Blaisdale: Goodnight Quilty
Pia Iger: Nite!
Adams Rubble: Bye Quilty
Fael Illyar: Good night :)
Quilty Bookmite is Offline
Resting Thor: thought i was levitating there for a mintue :))
Adams Rubble: I think my experience has been weighted to the conceptualization rather than the perception
Dakini Rhode: you were :)
Neela Blaisdale: ;)
Dakini Rhode: i do believe that's the "normal" human condition we find ourselves in, Adams, without some training to perceive differently
Resting Thor: so in that moment of awareness we can decide how to reconceptualize or try not to conceptualize either or both
Neela Blaisdale: But in that moment we have a choice
Fael Illyar is wondering if she's done anything more than remove the remains of her conceptualization of the world and whether or not any remain.
Faenik: indeed?
Resting Thor: that would be a very big thing :)
Adams Rubble thinks Fael does alot of conceptualization
Fael Illyar: That's necessary to explain things with words
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: but I rarely do it for myself.
Dakini Rhode: it seems pretty well necessary to get about on this plane :)
Resting Thor: good point about what is a conceptualization
Fael Illyar: strangely, I find talking to people help me in understanding some things.
Adams Rubble: I think conceptualization is more than words although we find ourselves trying to find the words to express
Fael Illyar: I realize things as I write my own text :)
Adams Rubble: Yes, me too
Pia Iger: writing is great tool.
Dakini Rhode: what did you realize just now, Fael?
Fael Illyar: I was wondering if I still do conceptualization myself... then I said rarely
Fael Illyar: that doesn't feel wrong.
Dakini Rhode: what does the world seem like from a nonconceptual POV?
Resting Thor: i automatically impute behavior upon things i perceive a lot
Fael Illyar: impute?
Resting Thor: i expect a car door to open when i pull on it
Resting Thor: i expect a pizza to taste a certain way
Resting Thor: impute is wrong word
Resting Thor: hard to verbalize isn't it :)
Fael Illyar: you have expectations of things.
Resting Thor: so i have a concept of a pizza and a car when i interact with them
Resting Thor: normal ones
Resting Thor: the notion that you and your world might be divine implies you have adifferent expecations
Neela Blaisdale: Hard to tell what is :rea;: about them and what is concept
Resting Thor: yeah
Adams Rubble: Just to clarify a bit, does that differ from expecting to be alive the next day when one goes to sleep?
Fael Illyar: real is another concept :)
Neela Blaisdale: real meaning "real"
Resting Thor: good point adams :)
Neela Blaisdale: :)
Resting Thor: a perception of existing this moment does not mean we should expect to exist the next?
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: but we expect a car door to open (mine rcently didn't)
Dakini Rhode: i think pausing, or whatever we do to change our perspective, allows us to see our conceptualization, to question it, and possibly to see things fresh
Pia Iger: yes.
Neela Blaisdale: good summary Dakini
Resting Thor: and to see, as adams pointed out, that concepts are not necessary accurate
Neela Blaisdale: yes
Adams Rubble: :)
Dakini Rhode: and opening to allow other ways of perceiving and (jinx, Thor)
Fael Illyar realized she can tell the difference between having expectations and not having them.
Dakini Rhode: let new, fresh, and other experiences to arise
Dakini Rhode: which might have been wholy masked by our expectations about how "reality" is
Dakini Rhode: wholly?
Dakini Rhode: wholey?
Pia Iger: true.
Neela Blaisdale: :):)
Adams Rubble: I must go to RL. This has been a wonderful session and I hate to go. Bye :)
Neela Blaisdale: Bye Adams
Dakini Rhode: sorry to see you go, Adams
Fael Illyar: Bye Adams :)
Resting Thor: it has been an honor adams

I struggled to verbalize some realization I'd had about mind.

Dakini Rhode: i've had experiences that invalidated my former concepts of mind
Dakini Rhode: that is, concepts that mind is somehow localized in this body
Neela Blaisdale: Can you share some Dakini?
Dakini Rhode: hmmm
Dakini Rhode: did you ever have a close connection with another person
Dakini Rhode: and knew what that person was thinking or felt their presence when they were phyically located very far from you??
Dakini Rhode: physically
Pia Iger: telepathy?
Dakini Rhode: it's an experience, i don't have a name for it
Dakini Rhode: do you, Thor?
Neela Blaisdale: Yes maybe a few
Dakini Rhode: I think that minds are not limited by space or location in space
Fael Illyar: I guess that'd go under the term telepathy normally.
Dakini Rhode: of course that's my concept
Neela Blaisdale: yes
Resting Thor: i don't have a name for it but certainly people report telepathy often
Resting Thor: and shared emotional responses as well
Neela Blaisdale: I recently had an extremely vivid dream about soeone I hadn't seen in over mos, ran into her the next day
Resting Thor: haha great
Neela Blaisdale: i mean 6 mos
Resting Thor: i think of people and they call me on the phone the next moment often
Neela Blaisdale: Must go back to Rl. This has been a wonderful discussion. TY Dakini. See you all soon
Pia Iger: bye, Neela
Resting Thor: you had more limited expectation about the minds power?
Fael Illyar: I got the feeling I should head to bed now. Good night :)
Dakini Rhode: nite, Fael :)
Pia Iger: nite, Fael.
Resting Thor: gnight Fael :)
Neela Blaisdale: Good bye everyone
Dakini Rhode: i think there is a consensus definition of mind as being located in this body
Resting Thor: Good night
Dakini Rhode: so "my" mind is in "my" body
Resting Thor: or you body is in your mind
Resting Thor: ?
Resting Thor: your
Dakini Rhode: and "your" mind is in "your" body, etc....
Dakini Rhode: well i'm speaking of normal, consensus view of mind...
Resting Thor: or i am in your mind haha
Dakini Rhode: haha or you are on my mind
Resting Thor: funny
Dakini Rhode: i think we use those phrases, normally, but that doesn
Dakini Rhode: t change our view of where we think the mind is located
Dakini Rhode: am i all wet here?
Dakini Rhode: this may not be a "normal" group...
Resting Thor: i think you describe the normal western scientific view
Dakini Rhode: i was trying to, i think
Dakini Rhode: and the view i was taught
Dakini Rhode: Pia, does that relate to your question?
Pia Iger: so what invalidated this concept of mind?

I hope we get back to Pia's question

Dakini Rhode: Thor, may i ask, is your skin very black in color?
Resting Thor: i seem to have black skin today
Pia Iger: and blue eyes
Resting Thor: i'm feeling self conscious
Dakini Rhode: sorry, i was staring ;(
Resting Thor: haha
Resting Thor: they're just pixels
Pia Iger: It does show where AV is staring.
Dakini Rhode: Fred recently had a skin texture issue, and his face appeared as completely black
Pia Iger: I thought it was beard issue
Dakini Rhode: i see that if I stare, i can make out your features, so your skin is just colored black :)
Resting Thor: no this is a skin i just bought as an experimeint
Resting Thor: more obvious on chest and back
Resting Thor: :)
Resting Thor: definitely a dark look
Dakini Rhode: Pia, Fred did not know how we saw him, because his computer rendered his skin correctly
Dakini Rhode: but for some reason we saw no features at all
Pia Iger: true, I did not know I had prostration issue at Assisi
Dakini Rhode: true, you did :)
Dakini Rhode: Pia was sitting every time she stopped walking (to me, it looked like that)
Dakini Rhode: but to her, she looked normal
Pia Iger: yes.
Dakini Rhode: wow just now, Thor and I went invisible
Dakini Rhode: all i could see was our hair and coffee cups
Pia Iger: saw that too.
Dakini Rhode: SL is getting tricky....
Resting Thor: perhaps it is getting late :)
Pia Iger: Pema has a photo of some pillow in red color, but to me all are yellow.
Dakini Rhode: but looking at the clock, i do see our time is up...
Dakini Rhode: and i must go
Resting Thor: gnight and thank you Dakini and Pia
Dakini Rhode: thanks for the interesting chat
Pia Iger: me too, it is over time.
Dakini Rhode: nite, all :)