2008.07.27 13:00 - Shedding Everything to Become a Child

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Adams Rubble was the guardian and the comments are from Adams (please see image at bottom)

Wol was at the pavlion first and soon Pia and Doug joined us. We four were the sole attendees of this session

Wol Euler: hello adams
Adams Rubble: Hello Wol
Wol Euler: nice to see you again
Adams Rubble: You too Wol :)
Adams Rubble: I am just waking up, a little groggy :)
Wol Euler: BTW Pema mailed me last night to apologise for speaking to you so harshly :-)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Thank you for telling me
Adams Rubble: Hi Pia
Wol Euler: hello Pia
Adams Rubble: Hi Doug
Wol Euler: hello doug
doug Sosa: hi wol, pia, adams,..
Pia Iger: Hi, Everyone.
Pia Iger: {Doug, you are around a lot recently}
Adams Rubble: I am pretending I am Maxine for the next hour :)
Wol Euler: who is Maxine?
doug Sosa: well, it realy was " i was gone alot until recently."
Pia Iger: hehe
Adams Rubble: Wol, Maxine is the guardian in this slot
Wol Euler: ah ok
Pia Iger: how long did you stay after I left at Adams'
Pia Iger: guess I misses a lot.
Adams Rubble: Ah, I am a bit confused, there were two times
Adams Rubble: The first time about 3 and a half hours
Pia Iger: wow
Adams Rubble: the second time, I left after an hour an a half...but some of that time was at Neela's
Pia Iger: I meant the first one.
Adams Rubble: Ah, Pema said that he might post some of that
Adams Rubble: You might as well know that he was a bit insistent with me
Wol Euler stifles a chuckle.
Pia Iger: with you? why?
Pia Iger: pushing?
Wol Euler: that's one way of putting it.
Wol Euler: (this is like an interview panel, the three of us opposite you)

I was sitting on one side of the pavilion and Doug, Pia and Wol were on the other. During the conversation, PIa and Woll filled in the seats between Doug and I

Adams Rubble: He thinks I am ready to let God/Being in the front door
Pia Iger: that sounds good.
Adams Rubble: I was saying that I don't know where the handle is
Adams Rubble: He told me that I should ask him in
Pia Iger: you are insistant too:)
Adams Rubble: I had another experience last night
Adams Rubble: Oh Pia :)
Adams Rubble: You are so gentle and supportive

That wasn't quite what I meant to say here but I have been thinking that for a while about Pia and said it here

Pia Iger: it simply is true.
Pia Iger: what I said.

I begin to describe my latest experience

Adams Rubble: Anyway I woke up last night
Adams Rubble: After saying a bit of a mantra...something like please come in
Adams Rubble: All of the sudden my body began to rock gently
Adams Rubble: in time with my breathing
Adams Rubble: inhale...right
Adams Rubble: exhale...left
Adams Rubble: I could not control (not that I wanted to)
Adams Rubble: It went on for about 10-15 breaths
Adams Rubble: and then gently stopped
Adams Rubble: I tried to keep it going
Adams Rubble: but had no control
Adams Rubble: my first thought
Adams Rubble: was that this can't be Pema
Adams Rubble: It must be God
Adams Rubble: and later I was thinking
Adams Rubble: that how childlike I was there
Adams Rubble: being gently rocked by God
Adams Rubble: shedding everything to become a child
Wol Euler smiles
Pia Iger: wow, it was phenominal. I don't know how to understand it, just try to feel the scene.
Adams Rubble: It was estraordinary and yet I don't feel that it is all
Adams Rubble: I was thinking while I was writing this in the blog
Adams Rubble: that I have had to shed something
Adams Rubble: just to be able to write this
Pia Iger: I do like "shedding everything to become a child'

Wol quotes a Biblical verse I had been trying to remember

Wol Euler: "Verily I say unto you, except you become as little children ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"
Wol Euler is quoting again.
Adams Rubble: I was trying to remember that this morning, Wol, thank you
Wol Euler: matthew 18:3
Adams Rubble: :)
Pia Iger: very related, Wol.
Wol Euler: Adams' comment brought it to mind.
Adams Rubble: The gist of it was in my mind this morning
Adams Rubble: childlike we come to God
Pia Iger: I am always fascinated by children.
Wol Euler: it's related to the practice of detachment, too, and the richman/eye of the needle question.
Pia Iger: not familar with eye of needle question.
Adams Rubble: I have been thinking that Pema has been speaking Christianity to me as if it is a language
Wol Euler grins. That it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter heaven, because he cannot leave the things of the world behind.
Adams Rubble: He is fluent in so many of them :)
Wol Euler nods.
Pia Iger: thanks, Wol. Got it.
Adams Rubble: It has helped me see things that I couldn;t otherwise
Adams Rubble: I was trying to use Buddhism...wrong bus for me
Adams Rubble: right one for other people
Wol Euler thinks there is much of the Bible in Buddhism, and vice versa.
Adams Rubble: yes Wol
Wol Euler: Koholet (Ecclesiastes) in particular has Buddha nature :-)
Adams Rubble: Hmmm. I did not know that
Wol Euler: when he talks about folly and vanity, and the need for detachment and clarity.

Doug brings up a Daoist view

doug Sosa: i think it part of the tao to resist the pull of any concept that feels loaded with lots of karma.
Adams Rubble: Wow, Doug, I don't think I understand that, could you explain?
doug Sosa: concepts like buddha, christianity, are packed full of many thoughts, too full to graps, and overweighted for the mind to be able to feel free with.
Pia Iger: Tao is different on that sense?
doug Sosa: tao can be just.. but yes, it too is suspect if treated with too much reverence.

...And the problem of trying to express things in language

doug Sosa: words are helpful but can become ideology, compact, beyond rethinking.
Adams Rubble: I think my experiences are taking me beyond words
Adams Rubble: other than trying hard to describe what is happening to me
doug Sosa: yes, and we want to be able to go there. Words are both helpful, and excess baggage.
Wol Euler smiles. This is the problem, isn't it? that we hvae only words with which to convey experience.
Adams Rubble: yes I agree with that Doug
Adams Rubble: For me the baggage is that I feel a little funny saying that God was by my side last night gently rocking me like a baby
Adams Rubble: but how far I have come being able to say that is extraordinary
Adams Rubble: I know that this will be translated at some point into Being
Adams Rubble: but now I don;t have the words for that
Adams Rubble: does that make sense?
Wol Euler: Does it feel funny to feel that, or only to use the words here with us? (I suspect, the latter)
Adams Rubble: Wol, the latter
doug Sosa: yes, words can help get over a hump, and then become the next hump. they are both helfpul and a pain.
Wol Euler smiles. Good.
Adams Rubble: yes Doug
doug Sosa: so what you tell us sings to us, but as you suggest it has some extra stuff.

Doug makes a good point. It worried me a bit writing it down. I will need to learn how to have the experience without the extra stuff...in time I hope

Adams Rubble: yes, would turn some people off
Wol Euler: on the other hand, what else do we have but words? I cannot hold my experience out to you on the palm of my hand?
Adams Rubble: but it is my language for now
Pia Iger: to any open and discerning eyes, the communication can be done.
Pia Iger: not take the meaning from the face value of words.
doug Sosa: I can take someone's belief seriously and with pleasure without believing it.
Wol Euler: "Language is a cracked kettle on which we beat out tunes for bears to dance to, while all the time we long to move the stars to pity." Flaubert.
Wol Euler: it's a limited tool, but it's all we have.
Adams Rubble: That's quite a quote Wol :)
Pia Iger: where do you harbor the quotes, Wol?
Pia Iger: they come so handy
doug Sosa: lots of agreement here. love the flaubert. how did you have that at hand?
Wol Euler: lol, in my mind. I have a very good memory for trivia and nonsense.
doug Sosa: such nonsense.

I wonder what Doug meant by that

Pia Iger: amazing.
Wol Euler: I can remember word-for-word most things that I read once.
Wol Euler: no, strike "most". Much of what I read.
Pia Iger: still, impressive.
Adams Rubble has a feeling that we all are going to be enjoying Wol's memory
Wol Euler smiles.
doug Sosa: i must rise and go now...
Wol Euler: lol
Wol Euler: and keep bees?
Adams Rubble: Sorry you must go Doug. Good to see you :)
Wol Euler: bye Doug

Doug leaves and Pia asks Wol about doing the PaB routine

Pia Iger: not interviewing Adams Rubble:) just curious, Wol, have you try any of our practice?
Wol Euler: mmmm, not really. No.
Wol Euler: I do meditate some days, before starting work, and find that it clears my mind and soul. But I'm too lazy to do it daily, and hesitannt about the formalism of the every-hour-nine-seconds routine.
Wol Euler: I have been meaning to try it, but my work is so absorbing that I simply forget.
Wol Euler: Even if I set a timer, all that's im my mind is what I had been doing.
Wol Euler: Adams, your description of seeing being seeing is appealing, htat is something I could do.
Adams Rubble hopes she explained it correctly
Wol Euler: you certainly explained it in a way that was clear and inviting and demostrative of the use and usefullness, let's say that.

I then describe my other nine second meditation techniques

Adams Rubble: I have different things I use for the nine seconds
Adams Rubble: My favorite that I try to use at least once a day is the "Think Good Thoughts" meditation
Adams Rubble: in which you think of something that will make you smile
Wol Euler raises an eyebrow.
Adams Rubble: I don't know that it is useful for anything than getting a smille
Adams Rubble: but we all should smile at least once a day :)
Wol Euler: once an hour!
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I do a breathing meditation too
Adams Rubble: In which I just concentrate on my breat for the whole time
Adams Rubble: Then another is a focusing meditation
Adams Rubble: in which I take two breaths and then focus on my body
Adams Rubble: It usually brings out the thoughts I express in my log
Adams Rubble: although some of them come from the in between parts
Adams Rubble: The nice thing about the PaB 15 minutes, 9 seconds
Adams Rubble: is the flexibility
Wol Euler: oh?
Adams Rubble: no penalty if the 15 minutes is 2 hours and 45 minutes'
Wol Euler: ah :-)
Wol Euler: I tend to pedantry and exactitude, alas.
Pia Iger: yes, we don't have formilites, just suggestion.
Adams Rubble: Then you need a timer with a large bell :)
Wol Euler: lol
Adams Rubble: gong :)
Adams Rubble is enjoying the quiet company of friends

Pia asks a question that had not occurred to me. I asked some of my family members later and they think I am calmer. I answer Pia by my own measure of growth

Pia Iger: Adams, has your family noticed any difference of you?
Pia Iger: you can ignore the question if it is too intrusive.
Adams Rubble: I have talked about my experiences with my family
Adams Rubble: So it is not a matter of them noticing
Adams Rubble: The changes seem gradual to me although that is in SL time
Adams Rubble: I don't know if I can differentiate the time any more :)
Adams Rubble: My starting point was to live more compassionately
Adams Rubble: This has come very slowly in unexpected ways
Adams Rubble: I remember Fael talking about that...I think with you
Adams Rubble: I don't walk down the street feeling compassionate
Adams Rubble: to everyone
Adams Rubble: but there have been a few situations where I have begun to notice a change
Adams Rubble: Especially last week when I had some difficult situations to handle
Adams Rubble: That doesn't quite answer your question

I ask Pia about change and we discuss our increasing awareness of other group members

Adams Rubble: How about you Pia, how have you changed?
Wol Euler: but it was a good answer to *something*
Pia Iger: in one line, I can say I accept more of myself and other ppl.
Pia Iger: and here, in PaB, I can appreciate the difference of every guardians.
Adams Rubble: ah yes, I have become more focused on people in the group
Adams Rubble: and caring about them more
Adams Rubble: is that what you are saying?
Pia Iger: yes. part of it.
Adams Rubble: and noticing their changes too?
Pia Iger: not everyone, just the frequents.
Adams Rubble: yes, that makes sense :)
Adams Rubble: exactly!
Wol Euler nods
Pia Iger: but I deeply appreciate, even in awe of how unique everyone are here.
Adams Rubble: Yes! :)
Pia Iger: (pia has many grammar errors)
Wol Euler: why is that easier to note in SL than in RL?
Adams Rubble: What Wol?
Pia Iger: good question, Wol and very valid.
Wol Euler: the uniqueness and person-ness of each other.
Wol Euler: many people in RL are for me like trees: I try not to bump into them, but would never think to greet them
Adams Rubble: We look into each others' souls in this group :)

Wol expands our discussion to our understanding of people in Second Life in general

Wol Euler: or *were* before joining SL. I have become much better at speaking to strangers, and am gratified and amused to find that they reply
Adams Rubble: yes, Wol. me too :)
Wol Euler: yes, one meets the soul in SL, nearly unmediated.
Pia Iger: yes. I have an image of the goddess in front of courts, blindfolded our eyes.
Pia Iger: we can't judge ppl here by their looks, social status. all we can hear is what they think.
Wol Euler: exactly.
Adams Rubble: Yes, and it is a wonderful, wonderful thing :)
Pia Iger: what they truly are inside.
Wol Euler nods and smiles.
Wol Euler: althoough there is also (at least for some) a strong *embodiment* in the avatar. I do feel that Wol _is_ me.
Adams Rubble thnks she could discuss avatars for another hour but....
Wol Euler: When I first entered SL, a friend took me up a snowy Japanese mountainside. We stood among fir trees, watching hte mist and the falling snow and talked for hours.
Adams Rubble: :)
Wol Euler: And at one point, I actually thought "I'm not dressed for this weather."
Pia Iger: nice
Adams Rubble: yes
Pia Iger: hehe
Adams Rubble: I am enjoying this conversation very much but I have to go now and take the log with me
Wol Euler: ah, yes, it's time. I too must go.
Pia Iger: me, too. it was pleasure.
Wol Euler: thank you, Pia and Ada,ms.
Adams Rubble: Thank you Pia and Wol :)
Pia Iger: bye for now.
Wol Euler: enjoy the evening.
Adams Rubble: bye :)
Wol Euler: bye, adieu