That morning, I found Adams, Doug, Fael, Gaya and Maxine already in conversation, when I finally managed to reach the pavilion, hampered by severe SL lag.
Gaya Ethaniel: yes i create the acussation
Gaya Ethaniel: without realising it
Adams Rubble: Hi Pema
Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
Gaya Ethaniel: i was just saying to Fael that 9 sec bells show me what i was doing by the surprise factor of sudden bong
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Pema
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
doug Sosa: hi.
Pema Pera: terrible lag tonite, it took me five minutes to walk over here . . . .
Gaya Ethaniel: wow…
Fael Illyar: Gaya, you could try not answering the accusation at all. not trying to deny it nor confirm.
Gaya Ethaniel: i fall into having a conversation
Adams Rubble: wow Pema
I crashed once again, and had to log back in once more. I found the group talking about accusations and facing the accuser.
Maxine Walden: hi, again Pema
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Pema
Adams Rubble: wb Pema
Gaya Ethaniel: my question Maxine would be how to make that first few steps - i’ve noticed that it comes with some unpleasant physical sensations
Maxine Walden: oh?
Pema Pera: hi again!
Gaya Ethaniel: like raised heartbeat
Gaya Ethaniel: faster breathing - a few times that i am aware
doug Sosa: don’t just feel the acusation. get to know the accuser,
Fael Illyar: Those are because you’re rejecting the accusation.
Fael Illyar: refusing to look at it
Maxine Walden: sounds like the accusations may be making you feel anxious, as if you are believing those accusations, feeling they are the truth about you
Fael Illyar: but also trying at the same time to force yourself.
Maxine Walden: rather than just voices from doubt, etc
Gaya Ethaniel: not sure yet either way i) refused to look ii) believing it
Gaya Ethaniel: i need to be more aware of these sensations i think
Fael Illyar: The key is to do neither.
Fael Illyar: your actions, thoughts aren’t you.
Maxine Walden: that may be helpful, doubts grow in the dark (when we turn away out of fear)
Fael Illyar: and an accusation can only be about those.
Gaya Ethaniel: though i have choice to make that action and thoughts to be used
Gaya Ethaniel: ?
Maxine Walden: retaining choice and mindfulness is key
Fael Illyar: accusation is always about something in the past.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Gaya Ethaniel: yes that i can’t do anything about
Fael introduces the notion of the past as a story.
Fael Illyar: the past is a story. Nothing more.
Gaya Ethaniel: feels like a parrot who learnt the script but not really applying it :)
Fael Illyar: live in the now. :)
Gaya Ethaniel: so just go back to practical steps…
Fael Illyar: If there is something you can learn from it, by all means do. But aside from that it’s just a story.
Fael Illyar: that applies to all stories
doug Sosa: the accuser is a person, who hurts, is anxious, needs friendship. get to know that person, inquire, be interested.
Gaya Ethaniel: so when i realise that i’m doing it & feeling the heart racing what do you suggest i do? first focus on the sensation or start breathing counting etc?
Gaya Ethaniel: it’s difficult to think in any way during thouse patches
Maxine Walden: mindfulness is the first casualty of anxiety
Maxine Walden: or doubt
Fael Illyar: the key is to remember that what you’re thinking about is a story. Not now, not worth being anxious about.
Fael Illyar: same goes for predictions about future. Just a story.
Gaya Ethaniel: ok will try that… at least i established that the assusing self is part of me
doug Sosa: do we really want to be storyless?
Gaya Ethaniel: not the whole
Fael Illyar: doug, not storyless, just seeing the stories as just that.
Fael Illyar: as what they are
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Maxine Walden: I find it interesting that doubt and anxiety seem to try to pull us from the value of this moment, living this moment and then the next and the next
Maxine Walden: as if we are betraying some old loyalties which may be the voices of doubt, accusation, saying we should be doing, feeling etc something other than being alive right now
Gaya Ethaniel: nods
doug Sosa: i am suggesting that just perhaps the doubt and anxiety are interesting openings to a real exploration.
Fael Illyar: what do you mean?
doug Sosa: instead of letting the anxiety go, to inquire what it seems to be about, treat it as though it is alive and can change its mind, talk with us, dialog. Anxiety is always about something still vague. we can dissipate it our invite it to be clearer.
doug Sosa: our should be or
Maxine Walden: giving it respectful space, and voice?
Maxine Walden: as if it is a messenger of some kind?
Adams Rubble: some very interesting thoughts Doug
Fael Illyar: Ah, you mean it’s a messenger. You don’t shoot the messenger?
doug Sosa: yes but if there is an accusation, there is an accuser. we are normally the accused. the opening is t inquire not of that self but of the accuser, “tell me more?”
Time for Doug to leave.
doug Sosa: 7;30 bell i must go, apologies.
Gaya Ethaniel: bye thanks doug
Adams Rubble: bye Doug
Fael Illyar: Bye Doug :)
Maxine Walden: thanks, Doug, see you
Gaya Ethaniel: i think i follow
Pema Pera: bye Doug
Gaya Ethaniel: not to treat as equal as Maxine said but to be curious to inquire why
Gaya Ethaniel: does this inquiring why cause any difficulties? Fael seems to say that to see it as it is
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: message … story … not much difference I guess :)
Maxine Walden: many ways to relate to our anxieties and doubts; maybe interesting to explore some of these suggestions
Gaya Ethaniel: so doug’s inquiring mind is being self-critical?
Fael Illyar: or just critical
Gaya Ethaniel: nods
Fael Illyar: self-critical is a bit misleading term :)
Maxine Walden: and perhaps there is a useful difference between doubt/criticism that is informing and that which is only erosive, seems out to only demean.
Adams Rubble: yes
Maxine Walden: I have found that trying to be self-aware may allow discernment between these different qualities
Gaya Ethaniel: aren’t they all same?? hm… let me think about this a bit
Fael Illyar: there is criticism that is only saying there is something wrong and criticism that also tells you what is wrong.
Maxine Walden: Pema, good to see you, lots going on right now I imagine
Gaya Ethaniel: zooms on Pema
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: seems like lots going on right here :)
Pema Pera: sorry to miss the beginning
Pema Pera: another hotel in Tokyo, bad internet connection
Pema Pera: can’t still long either
Maxine Walden: lags have their frustrations
Pema Pera: have to jump over to the astro group
Pema Pera: in just a minute
Maxine Walden: oh, yes
I am about to leave.
Pema Pera: sounded like a really interesting conversation — how did it start?
Gaya Ethaniel: sure better hurry must factor in 5 mins or so
Pema Pera: haha
Pema Pera: maybe
Gaya Ethaniel: i was talking about my 9 secs today
Pema Pera: yes?
Gaya Ethaniel: realised that uncomfortable physical sensations accompany negative thoughts today self-loathing
Gaya Ethaniel: the sudden sound of bells ejected me out of the beating up sessions
Gaya Ethaniel: i didn’t realise i was doing
Pema Pera: that’s great, Gaya!
Fael Illyar: Benefit already :)
Pema Pera: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Pema Pera: it’s amazing how shaking up is a precursor to waking up
Gaya Ethaniel: so i wanted to share and ask around for advice / thoughts
Gaya Ethaniel: is it?
Gaya Ethaniel: nods
Pema Pera: waking up seems a bit difficult but shaking up is easier :)
Gaya Ethaniel: that’s true the frequency must have done it…
Pema Pera: every 15 minutes shaken up by the bell
Pema Pera: and little by little waking up to what is
Pema Pera: I can add comments later — unless you feel particularly eager to do so yourself :>
Pema Pera: Fael, can you put the log on the wiki?
Pema Pera: all these sentences
Pema Pera: aarrrghhh
Pema Pera: out of order
Pema Pera: anyway, I hope you get the point :)
Pema Pera: see you all!
Maxine Walden: ?
Adams Rubble: bye Pema :)
Gaya Ethaniel: bye Pema
Maxine Walden: bye, Pema
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Pema :)
Gaya Ethaniel: i’m sorry just re-reading what Pema said
Faenik: indeed?
