2008.07.30 19:00 - Thank you, frailty.

The Guardian for this meeting was Pema. As he’s flat out, Gaya offered to post this log. Comments are hers.

Pema joins Adelene, doug, Friedrich and Gaya at the pavilion. Adelene’s mention of her current crafts projects gets everyone curious, in particular Pema.

Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: Hi everybody!
doug Sosa: hi.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: evenin'
Adelene Dawner extricates herself from her craft project and becomes present. "Hi all."
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
doug Sosa: what kind of craft Adelene?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what are you making?
Adelene Dawner: Well, I don't want to say, because I have one to give Pem when I see him an a couple of weeks and I'd like it to be a surprise. ^.^
doug Sosa: wow, suspense.
Pema Pera is now getting really curious . . .
Adelene Dawner: ^.^

Pema comments on his various upcoming gatherings with other guardians.

Pema Pera: it seems to be the season for guardians to meet in RL . . . .
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: it'll be a surprise whenever he finds out ;-) but that's nice.
Pema Pera: half a doze of us in Berkeley next week!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
doug Sosa: I hope it is something to wear on his long red hair
Pema Pera: hehe
Adelene Dawner: gnh, crowd. You'll have fun, though. ^.^
Pema Pera: do I wish in RL . . .
Gaya Ethaniel wonders what gnh means...
Pema Pera: maybe we should meet in different continents . . . London for a change, say
Adelene Dawner: It's actually not something for you to *keep* Pem. I don't know if you've crafted, but sometimes, the things speak to you... this one says it's for you to have for a while, and pass on to someone who will need it more than you do.
Gaya Ethaniel starts thinking about a few hiding places before PaB people descend upon London
Pema Pera: hahaha
Pema Pera meanwhile gets curiouser and curiouser
doug Sosa: gaya is in London?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

Adelene puts forward a topic for the day. And stevenaia joins us.

Adelene Dawner: So anyway, I think I actually have a *topic* for today.
Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
Gaya Ethaniel: yes doug
Pema Pera: yes, Adelene?
Gaya Ethaniel: Shoot Adele
Adelene Dawner: Well, a bit ago, the inside of my head started singing this song, for no apparent reason, and I don't see any specific relevance to myself, so...
Adelene Dawner: http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/alani...te/thanku.html
stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hey
Gaya Ethaniel: Adele where did you hear this song first time?
Pema Pera: Steve, the seat in front of you is empty
Pema Pera: in case you're still rezzing
Adelene Dawner: I dunno, on the radio somewhere? It's not new.
Gaya Ethaniel: ok
stevenaia Michinaga: ...smile, as soon as I see something to sit on, I will, thank you
doug Sosa: hard to imagien from the lyrics what it could sound like.
Adelene Dawner: um... 'blue-indigo' wouldn't help, and I can't describe it any better than that. It's medium-slow, though.
Gaya Ethaniel used to listen to Morissette quite a lot
Gaya Ethaniel: oh doug this song goes back about more than 10 years now i think
Adelene Dawner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1WJlxjxAZE

After watching the video, I realised that I got Jagged Little Pill mixed up with Supposed Former Infatuation Junkie. Adelene explains how the song ties into her current mood.

Gaya Ethaniel: and Adele what's your thoughts on that now - remembering & singing this song?
Adelene Dawner: I don't think you're on quite the right track with 'remembering'. The lyrics are the important part. Specifically this:
Alanis Morissette - Thank You
thank you frailty
thank you consequence
thank you, thank you silence
Gaya Ethaniel: yep you're right - i was remembering her early album...
Adelene Dawner: Like... the 'bad' parts of us are parts of us too, and deserve to be celebrated as much as the 'good' parts.
Gaya Ethaniel: this thoughts from those particular lyrics?
Adelene Dawner: Well, the song in general, more - those lyrics were the part that came up before I went and reread the whole thing, to get me to do so.
Gaya Ethaniel: i c
Adelene Dawner: But yeah, "thank you frailty"
Gaya Ethaniel: i think that relates to you more personally - it's just my guess
Adelene Dawner: And consequence... we never *do* quite know what the consequences of our choices will be.
Adelene Dawner: Yeah, maybe.
Pema Pera: I think frailty applies to all of us . . .
Adelene Dawner: Relates to isn't the same as applies to. It *does* rather tie into my mood right now.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: pardon me - prior engagement. stay away from the jagged little pills ;-)
Gaya Ethaniel: of course Pema but it didn't stick out to me as much as to Adele so just trying to understand where she's coming from
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Adelene Dawner: c'ya Fred
Pema Pera: I see, yes, thank you for clarification
Pema Pera: both of you, I mean
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

I get slightly worried about Pema feeling frail and decides to talk to him another time when it’s quieter.

Pema Pera: I've been feeling quite frail recently as well
Adelene Dawner: But the ...translation... wasn't intended just for me. That's just, yanno, where I tend to go with things like that. A bit more, a bit sideways. :)
Pema Pera: so I guess I can relate too :-)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adelene Dawner: I'm actually thinking back to a book I read, now... it talked about things like anger or greed or whatever as being teachers - which they are - and I think that frailty is a teacher, too.

Avastu joins us and Pema gives him a brief account of what we’ve been discussing. The discussion starts to fly and both stevenaia and doug offer numerous gems ponder on as we zoom further on frailty being a teacher to us in particular.

Pema Pera: Good evening, Avastu!
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
doug Sosa: yes, hello.
Avastu Maruti: hello all
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: we were just talking about frailty, Avastu
Gaya Ethaniel: how so Adele?
Pema Pera: and Adelene mentioned that she thinks frailty is a teacher, too.
Adelene Dawner: Well, it makes us take things seriously, a bit, I think. We can't do everything, so we have to think about what we do do, and make good choices. It's good to take risks, but it's not good to take *stupid* risks... you have to think about if it's worth it, and thinking is always good.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
stevenaia Michinaga: isn't everything a teacher?
Adelene Dawner: Well yeah. ^.^ Just some things we don't think of as being that, so much.
stevenaia Michinaga: (I'm not really typing, my hands keep moving on their own)
Gaya Ethaniel: lessons are out there but i guess i can only relate to certain things because of my conditioned background
Adelene Dawner: As I think about it... especially compared to anger or guilt, frailty works as a teacher ... it's harder to misinterpret, in some ways. More intuitive.
doug Sosa: times when we are "off" may be better teachers than when we are "on."
Adelene Dawner: mm-hmm
Gaya Ethaniel ponders doug's point deeply
stevenaia Michinaga: frailty is more a reflection of a physical as well as mental condition, guilt and anger are only mental
stevenaia Michinaga: although they may get the blood pressure up a bit
Adelene Dawner: And... we all know we're limited. We all know we're breakable. That makes the risks that we choose - or feel compelled, not that ther's that much difference - to take, actually meaningful.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Gaya Ethaniel: blood pressure and anger for example are very closely linked i think. once can duplicate the same emotion just by using bodily reactions
doug Sosa: the very word, coming from "fragile", used to mean moral weakness. Interesting hw the pjysical and the moral can shift sides.
Gaya Ethaniel: One*

I remember Sting’s Fragile here. And unfortunately doug has to leaves us. Adelene digs up a clip of Sting singing the song on the Top of the Pops (very appropriate for people in UK).

Gaya Ethaniel wonders whether Adele heard of Fragile by Sting
doug Sosa: i must go, dinner, bye...
Adelene Dawner: cya Doug
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Doug
Gaya Ethaniel: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/s/sting/fragile_20132060.html
Adelene Dawner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e33umZlpTIM
Gaya Ethaniel: thanks

The pavilion is completely silent while everyone listens to the song. We then move onto discussing Adelene’s feelings on not wanting to be an ‘all-powerful’ being, which I can relate to while Pema is offering many gems to reflect upon. As usual, she manages to draw me out to talk about it further.

Adelene Dawner: no I hadn't, listening now ... pretty.
Gaya Ethaniel: often makes me cry
Adelene Dawner: The other part of my lyric was important, though, too. *Thank you* frailty.
Gaya Ethaniel: yes i can see why now Adele
Adelene Dawner: 'Cause I donno about you, but I wouldn't *want* to be all-powerful and indestructible. It wouldn't be any fun, for one thing.
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: i know the feeling
Adelene Dawner: Say more, Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: well
Pema Pera: ”how bout remembering your divinity”
Gaya Ethaniel: i'd say that i'm a better person for all the pains i've had endured. if i give you an example, in korea it's a easy life to be a man than woman but i'd rather be a woman - does this make sense?
Adelene Dawner: mm-hmm ^.^
Gaya Ethaniel: if i didn't get by all the difficulties, i wouldn't be here discussing these things with you guys
Adelene Dawner: Mistakes, failures, are *vital*, in every sense of the word. You learn from them.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adelene Dawner: And 'easy' just means that it's easier to be wrong without having to face the consequences.
Gaya Ethaniel: yes Pema, so in a way i'm more in tune to feel the 'divinity' now
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Pema Pera: yes

Seems that I share similar sentiments with Adelene and Pema regarding failure. And along the way, Adelene and I find ourselves typing the same thing at the same time regarding ‘revisiting’ books. And we end the session with a big grin on our faces.

Pema Pera: "how bout unabashedly bawling your eyes out" -- I see the connection
Pema Pera: as ou said, Gaya
Pema Pera: *you
Pema Pera: (bawling = crying loudly)
Gaya Ethaniel: not sure about 'bawling eyes' bit
Gaya Ethaniel: yeah i use music or art for that or books etc
Gaya Ethaniel: at times certain people too... when i'm sitting in an empty church, looking at Jesus on the cross, i find myself crying
Adelene Dawner: I think the whole song is saying: Fail. Fail spectacularly. Take the consequences of that - "bawling my eyes out", "more than I could handle"... Live!
Gaya Ethaniel: lol yep
Pema Pera has to smile, remembering that ten years ago Stim kept telling him in RL "Piet, you have to learn how to fail"
Adelene Dawner: :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: it's hard to accept one's failure i think
Pema Pera: it took me about seven years :)
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adelene Dawner: Oh that reminds me - Gaya, have you ever read the book Jonathan Livingston Seagull?
Gaya Ethaniel: yea...
Adelene Dawner: ok.
Gaya Ethaniel: tell me more about your thoughts on the book Adele?
Adelene Dawner was going to tell you to if you hadn't - and it's worth an occasional re-read anyway.
Gaya Ethaniel often reads books and watches films again throughout her life as she finds different meanings each time
Gaya Ethaniel: will do
Adelene Dawner: Well, that's a very meaningful book for me - I actually first read it when I was 7, and it made more sense than anything else I'd read at the time... powerful stuff.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adelene Dawner: Just re-read it today, and it still can kick me in the chest. Different parts each time, though.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adelene Dawner: "Fletcher Lynd Seagull, do you want to fly so much that you will forgive the Flock, and learn, and go back to them one day and work to help them know?"
Adelene Dawner: ...and it was just, like, Damn. I guess I *have * to do that, don't I? Book says so. ^.^
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adelene Dawner: (And, um... there's another layer to that, too. But one kick in the chest is enough for one day.)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles