That evening, Thorberg was the guardian. He provided the following chat log.
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Adelene
Adelene Dawner: Hi all :)
Thorberg Nordlicht: hello, everyone
Rowan Masala: oops
Rowan Masala: sorry
Starseed Xue: Hello everyone
Thorberg Nordlicht: are there cushions here?; if so, they haven’t rezzed for me yet
Neela Blaisdale: Sorry having lots of trouble tonight
stevenaia Michinaga: waiting to rezz
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Neela
Thorberg Nordlicht: yes, i’m having lots of SL trouble, too
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Steven and Fael
Thorberg Nordlicht: welcome, everyone
stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t see Fael, I;m not sitting on her am I?
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Thor
Thorberg Nordlicht: hello Neela
Neela Blaisdale: No but where did she go?
Thorberg Nordlicht: did we already lose somebody?
Thorberg Nordlicht: so, has anyone been practicing the 9-second-moment meditation?
stevenaia Michinaga: I was thinking, since i don;t… if we could take a moment when the bell chimes and take 9 secs as a group, then we all will have that moment to share
stevenaia Michinaga: ..just a thought
Thorberg Nordlicht: i think that’s an excellent idea; wish i’d thought of it myself :)
Thorberg Nordlicht: ah, but unfortunately, I won’t hear the bell; I’m in a living room with other folks watching TV so i have speakers off, and headphones are in other room
Thorberg Nordlicht: will someone tell me when the bell rings?
Starseed Xue: sure
Thorberg Nordlicht: anyway, until then, anyone have anything to report on 9-second experiences?
stevenaia Michinaga: perhaps you can explain how you do it Thor, since we have moments to kill
stevenaia Michinaga: a few moments..
Thorberg Nordlicht: hmm, well, I don’t have a good way to remind me every 15 minutes, but I just kind of spontaneously “remember” at random times (kind of like the random bell)
Neela Blaisdale: Yes that’s what I do as well
Thorberg Nordlicht: i also have a formal practice, so the 9-second moment seems like a continuation of my regular practice
stevenaia Michinaga: regular practice?
Thorberg Nordlicht: but the sensation is always the same; i’m always imersed in some particular task, and then kind of mentall step back and see everything as the big picture
Thorberg Nordlicht: a regular meditation practice; 40-minute zazen at least once a day (when i’m on my good behavior :)
Thorberg Nordlicht: as with physical exercise, I’m real good about doing it every day for a while, and then i kind of drift away from it for a while
Thorberg Nordlicht: but when i’m in the habit (meditation or exercise), i’m do it every day
Thorberg Nordlicht: and the 9-second session always seems like a momentary continuation of my regular practice
Banana Nut Muffin whispers: Hmmm, a fresh baked muffin!
Thorberg Nordlicht: hello Starseed
stevenaia Michinaga: how long have you been meditating Thorberg’
Starseed Xue: Hi, mmm banana nut bread
Thorberg Nordlicht: how long? haha, off and on for 30 years :)
Adelene Dawner: bell
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Thorberg Nordlicht: i started my practice at Minneapolis Zen center in the early 80s
Thorberg Nordlicht: i guess that’s been 9 seconds (for those joining us late, we agreed to do a 9-second moment whenever the bell rings)
Thorberg Nordlicht: before the reminder, I was very immersed in the details of this SL session; at “bell” I became aware of the room i’m in, background sounds, Jeopardy on the TV, everyting all at once
Thorberg Nordlicht: kind of a shift in point of view
Thorberg Nordlicht: from details to “big picture”
stevenaia Michinaga: I had an interesting moment, I think it was only my second serious time… it was a momentary view of myself from inside, then like an elastic band I was thown out looking back at me
Rowan Masala: it made me remember that I was in my body, rather than in my avatar, and made me sit up straighter
stevenaia Michinaga: but only for a short time, I am in a noisy room as well
Rowan Masala: what did you look like from the inside, Steven?
Stargate Tone: Hi all
Starseed Xue: Hello
stevenaia Michinaga: jsut a container of sorts
Rowan Masala: Hi Stargate
Thorberg Nordlicht: hello FLP
stevenaia Michinaga: Hello stargate
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Stargate
Thorberg Nordlicht: oh, i mean Stargate
Stargate Tone: Hello Randall
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Adelene Dawner: mf. Getting crowded here, so I’m getting a headache. I think I’ll take my leave. See you tomorrow.
Thorberg Nordlicht: ok, Adelene; thanks for joining us
Neela Blaisdale: Bye Adelene
Stargate Tone: Hello Neela, stevania, Rowan, Thorberg and Starseed
Starseed Xue: Hello
Thorberg Nordlicht: we’re discussing expericnes with 9-second moment meditation
Stargate Tone: **
Thorberg Nordlicht: each time the bell rings, we take a 9-second meditative pause
Stargate Tone: **
stevenaia Michinaga: Pia has been suggesting I take a guardian slot (now that I leaned how to edit logs) and I thought of using the bell here as a good reason to take those 9 seconds here as a strating point
stevenaia Michinaga: starting point
Thorberg Nordlicht: good
Thorberg Nordlicht: what i find interesting about the bell is as soon as i’m reminded to return to the big picture, i can also kind of see where my mind was right before the bell rang and how my point of view changes
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, the relative changes give the sence of the moment a perspective
Thorberg Nordlicht: also, the change in “feelings” is significant: when i’m immersed in some task, the way i “feel” depends on the task — i can be concerned, frustrated, whatever — but then when i return to the big picture, there’s this sense of calm that takes over
Thorberg Nordlicht: what’s really interesting is the sensation that the “calm” was there all along, only i kind of forgot it because of whatever i was immersed in
Starseed Xue: Hello Rajah
Neela Blaisdale: You became mindful of it
Thorberg Nordlicht: hello Rajah; join us
Stargate Tone: Hello Rajah
Thorberg Nordlicht: “became mindful of it” yes
stevenaia Michinaga: when I work intently, I take a moment for a ..sigh.. am moment whee I chnge my breath completely… I was somewhat Like a 9 second moment
stevenaia Michinaga: but was years ago, but it did refocus me
Neela Blaisdale: Yes that’s why at work I keep a sign saying “breathe”
Thorberg Nordlicht: that’s good: “breathe” — as sign to remind you to breath (as if you would forget), but I understand what you mean
stevenaia Michinaga: more a change in breath
Neela Blaisdale: Yes to concentrate on it for a moment
Thorberg Nordlicht: in a 9-second moment (as with all meditation) my breathing becomes slow and regular
Thorberg Nordlicht: when the bell rings, and i think about my breathing right before the bell, i’m aware my breathing may have been irregular and faster depending on what i was doing
stevenaia Michinaga: hmm, I missed the bell
Thorberg Nordlicht: in the early stages of Zazen practice, we’re taught to “follow our breath”
Thorberg Nordlicht: i seems as if the very act of being minful of the breath creates a state of calm the results in the breath becoming smoother
Thorberg Nordlicht: *mindful
stevenaia Michinaga: can you tell me about mindfulness a bit?
Neela Blaisdale: So in seeing as being are we just becoming mindful of being in that moment?
Thorberg Nordlicht: ((anyone chime in here))
Neela Blaisdale: Mindful maning giving our full atention to
stevenaia Michinaga: I did;t hear it
Neela Blaisdale: for instance if you’re driving and on the cell phone, ou’re not being mindful of either
Neela Blaisdale: to give a kind of concrete example
Thorberg Nordlicht: ok, i’m going to go out on a limb here; how ’bout “mindfulness” as “being aware of awarness”
Thorberg Nordlicht: ((not totally happy with that; wondering whatothers think))
Stargate Tone: what would that matter ?
stevenaia Michinaga: a friend of mine who was here a few times views this more as another type of mindfulness exercise
stevenaia Michinaga: i always enjoy walking in to someone elses definition of something I know little about
Stargate Tone: Hello Prosper
Rowan Masala: Hi Prosper
Prosper Telling: Hellow everyone
Rowan Masala: forgive me, I have to go. Thank you all
Neela Blaisdale: Hello prosper
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Rowan
Stargate Tone: Have Good Time Rowan
Prosper Telling: What have I missed?
Thorberg Nordlicht: as always, we’re having a multi-threaded conversation, but partly (i think) we’re talking about “what is mindfulness?”
Thorberg Nordlicht: and “why does it matter?”
Prosper Telling: We always steer clear of the easy topics, dont we ;-)
Thorberg Nordlicht: not when *I’m* the host!
Stargate Tone: *
Prosper Telling: Makes them interesting
Neela Blaisdale: Well I think I brought it up as is this part of what we’re doing in our 9 sec when we’re in being
Prosper Telling: Being, mindfulness, time and space— I think I know what they are as long as no one asks me to define thme
Stargate Tone: and I asked what would other people’s thoughts matter….
Prosper Telling: Do our thoughts matter and if so, how much?
stevenaia Michinaga: other people’s thought is what I am here to listen to.
stevenaia Michinaga: it matter as i learn from them
Prosper Telling: Good answer
Starseed Xue: Bell
Starseed Xue: hi lili
Stargate Tone: HI lilianna
Neela Blaisdale: Hello Lili
Prosper Telling: The only thing I am rather convinced of concerning mind is that it is too often confued with the grey goo between our ears
Prosper Telling: hi
Thorberg Nordlicht: welcome, Lilianna
lilianna Criss: hey. :)
stevenaia Michinaga: when you put it that way, who wouldn;t be
Thorberg Nordlicht: Prosper, are you referring to the notion that “mind” is not necessarily “in the brain”
Prosper Telling: Yes. That it extends outward as a field. I guess you could say the Mind contains the brain instead of the otherway around.
Stargate Tone: well…how else could one travel with mind and yet the brain do work out anyway…
Prosper Telling: Buddhist take anyway
Stargate Tone: agree
Thorberg Nordlicht: in Scientific Materialism, matter (or “material”) is taken as “the given” but then it’s difficult to explain how “material” can manifest mind; the alternate view is the “mind” is the given and that “material” is just a way the mind “understands”
stevenaia Michinaga: afk
Prosper Telling: Yeah, what he said :-)
Windchime Bronze 12: Starseed Xue picked the option ‘Volume’.
Windchime Bronze 12: Starseed Xue picked the option ‘100%’.
Neela Blaisdale: What are those sirens?
Prosper Telling: Someone touched it and it wasn’t me this time!
Starseed Xue: lol
Neela Blaisdale: Did you do it Star?
Starseed Xue: maybe
Prosper Telling: lol
Stargate Tone: not that I’de know
Stargate Tone: and there was the green text with the name….
Avastu Maruti: pardon, my frieds…
Stargate Tone: but not my name
Neela Blaisdale: Must go goodnight all
Stargate Tone: good night Neela
Starseed Xue: i have to go too
Thorberg Nordlicht: thanks for joining us
Starseed Xue: goodnight
Starseed Xue: namaste
Prosper Telling: How many minds do you reckon there are?
Stargate Tone: good night Starseed
Thorberg Nordlicht: how many mind? how ’bout just ONE
Thorberg Nordlicht: *minds
Thorberg Nordlicht: but that ONE mind gets lost immersing in the details of thinking it’s all of us
Prosper Telling: we are on the same page
Prosper Telling: Sounds liek my computer when I am trying to download too much information
Thorberg Nordlicht: some credit for that notion has to go to Alan Watts
Thorberg Nordlicht: he like that idea, that there’s really only one mind that forgets it’s just one mind
Prosper Telling: A kind of optical illusion of consciousness as someone put it
Thorberg Nordlicht: “optical illusion of consciouness”; hmm, have to ponder that a bit
stevenaia Michinaga: I must depart now too, are you keeping the log tonight Thorberg?
Thorberg Nordlicht: yes, steve, i’m keeping the log tonight, but thanks for asking
Stargate Tone: was nice to meet YOu again stevenaia
Prosper Telling: Well I am glad to have caught the tell end of the meeting. My schedule has bee wonky for the last few days.
Prosper Telling: Have a great night
stevenaia Michinaga: night Stargate, Nela, Therberg, Prosper
Stargate Tone: night
Stargate Tone: well; You didn’tThorberg tell, what the other persons thought do mean ….
Stargate Tone: as You said You wondered what other people would think….
Prosper Telling: I think on a real level there is not an other person to have thoughts
Prosper Telling: they matter to me because they arise from the same Mind as my own
Prosper Telling: and point to a common truth
Stargate Tone: yet; in case there’s thoughts of anger, that hurts…
Prosper Telling: just my .02 worth
Prosper Telling: Dukkha is part of life… few if any of us get out of life without hurting in one way or the other.
Prosper Telling: Just because it sometimes hurts is not reason enough to get me to turn away.
Stargate Tone: true
Stargate Tone: but that I take that it means; other persons thoughts
Stargate Tone: they can hurt
Prosper Telling: Well with mindfulness the idea is to be aware… don’t be a masichst but don’t run in the other direction if some calls you an ethnic slur or doesn’t like your haircut.
Stargate Tone: just wanted to ‘give’ an example
Thorberg Nordlicht: i’m going to have to say good night, now
Prosper Telling: goodnight
Stargate Tone: what other persons thought CAN mean
Prosper Telling: such as?
Thorberg Nordlicht: roommate/chef is calling me to dinner; must restpect the chef in this house :)
Prosper Telling: Eat well.
Thorberg Nordlicht: good night, folks
