2008.07.16 13:00 - Playing and explaining

Storm Nordwind: Greetings Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Storm Nordwind: I am not sure we have met before (although I have a poor memory). But I have read your blog :)
Storm Nordwind: Hello Adams!
Adams Rubble: hello Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi Gaya
Adams Rubble: Hello Everyone
Storm Nordwind: Hello Timbo
Storm Nordwind: Hi Fael
Gaya Ethaniel: hello everyone
Timbo Quan: Hello Everyone
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone :)
Storm Nordwind: Wonderful to see enthusiastic people here right on the hour!
Adams Rubble: Nice to meet you Timbo
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Timbo Quan: Nice to meet you Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: think it's first time Avastu, nice to meet you in person
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend

Storm Nordwind: I often simply let the discussion flow at sessions where I am guardian, but I do have a question for people today.
Gaya Ethaniel: sure
Storm Nordwind: The title of the project, the practice, or whatever you want to call it is Play as Being
Storm Nordwind: I am interested in how people see the "Play" side of things manifesting
Storm Nordwind: Is it a coincidental part? Is it very deliberate?
Storm Nordwind: Is it an essential thing to make a serious subject more palatable?
Storm Nordwind: What do people see as Play?
Gaya Ethaniel: i hesitated for a long time before coming here because of 'play' bit in the name
Adams Rubble: Do mean how it happens or its intent?
Fael Illyar: For me it stands for playing at Being :)
Storm Nordwind: Both of these Adams. Gaya, please tell us more about that feeling
Storm Nordwind: What made you hesitate?
Gaya Ethaniel: pls Adams go ahead first
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: I have seen it come both ways
Adams Rubble: both to break tension
Adams Rubble: and sometimes when nothing else is happening
Adams Rubble: I think it brings us together
Gaya Ethaniel: for me
Gaya Ethaniel: i understood when i saw teleport spot & 'Play as Being' pavilion text
Gaya Ethaniel: thought it was something to do with a role play and i was afraid it would be something dodgy
Storm Nordwind: Ah! Yes I see!
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: i understand better now though
Storm Nordwind: I would have to agree with you there!
Fael Illyar: Well, in a way you could say it's roleplaying. I think Pema intended for us to play as if we were already "there".
Storm Nordwind: Yes Fael - that is a common practice
Gaya Ethaniel: i wonder whether Storm you were asking more about 'play' as being in our daily life? not sure... could you clarify your question a little?
Fael Illyar: assume you're already there, then what.
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... lots of questions!...
Storm Nordwind: Well the play - - it's unusual for adults to admit to playing at things, unless it's computer games or sport. Business needs make us very serious, and performance measures preclude play
Storm Nordwind: So I am interested in how we react to the word play in all ways
Storm Nordwind: How it affects us day to day
Timbo Quan: Interesting - Yet the concept of play can be reversed in that it can often be considered a 'serios' thing
Timbo Quan: serious even
Storm Nordwind: As for Fael's point, it is a common meditation practice to visulaise yourself already there so that you take on the attributes of what you are focusing on
Storm Nordwind: You mean in competitive sport, for example, Timbo?
Timbo Quan: Yes that certainly came to mind
Storm Nordwind nods
Adams Rubble: I might be learning here how to play in real life, i.e. lighten up a little
Storm Nordwind smiles
Storm Nordwind: That's wonderful!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Adams Rubble: I've done things here I never would in real life
Fael Illyar: makes life more interesting :)
Gaya Ethaniel: would you share an example Adams?
Storm Nordwind: Adams, is that because it is Second Life, or because of the PaB practice?
Adams Rubble: I've done silly dances, gotten smashed Gaya. Interesting question Storm-a little of both
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Gaya Ethaniel: i see what you mean
Gaya Ethaniel: today i wondered about what my AV is to me
Adams Rubble: Another inetesting issue
Adams Rubble: interesting
Gaya Ethaniel: in terms of playing AV

Fael Illyar: Hi Rajah :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Rajah
Storm Nordwind: Yes. This actually been studied by academics. I have seen the paper.
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Rajah
Storm Nordwind: Hi Rajah
Rajah Yalin: hi all
Timbo Quan: Hello Rajah
Adams Rubble: My AV seems to take the lead sometimes
Storm Nordwind: Is that compelling or liberating?
Adams Rubble: In the liberating sense Storm
Storm Nordwind nods
Adams Rubble: fewer inhibitions
Gaya Ethaniel: strangely SL/AV affects me as I affect it
Storm Nordwind: Right. I have found that the immersive nature of SL means I see no boundaries between SL and RL any more.
Storm Nordwind: And that means that I can get to know people much better and faster
Adams Rubble: I have experienced a merging of SL and RL too
Gaya Ethaniel: thinks Storm articulates very well
Fael Illyar: I don't have much of a boundary left either.
Fael Illyar: I'm still not advertising my RL identity here though.
Storm Nordwind: That's fine by me. It is a private choice.
Storm Nordwind: I have found that many academics have to be open by the nature of their teaching work here
Adams Rubble: I think there are advantages to both ways
Storm Nordwind nods
Adams Rubble: We are so open here, sometimes I feel I should be too
Adams Rubble: I am open in one way
Storm Nordwind: Openness is a personal choice. It is my own choice. But I would never push that upon anyone else.
Gaya Ethaniel: i've heard this phrase, if it shouldn't be this way, it wouldn't be this way. Adams i let that should feeling go
Adams Rubble: :)
Storm Nordwind: It's interesting that with Play as Being you get a greater openness with yourself.
Storm Nordwind: I have found that although many people find it easier to be honest with others, they find it hard to be honest with themselves.
Gaya Ethaniel: true Storm
Adams Rubble: So many levels to be honest on, Storm
Storm Nordwind: true
Adams Rubble: and I agree too
Gaya Ethaniel: it's harder to see within - doesn't come naturally like seeing with eyes and listening to people etc
Fael Illyar: I've ended up being quite open about myself. Not so open about my RL identity, although there are people in this group who already know.
Fael Illyar: All I set out to do is to be open to myself though.
Fael Illyar: but as I found not having problems accepting myself, being open to others wasn't much further.
Storm Nordwind: I think that is all PaB is asking of you, to be open with yourself more than before
Storm Nordwind: If it comes naturally that is wonderful, and we all benefit from your sharing - as I certainly have already!
Fael Illyar: That's nice to hear :) Would you care to share an example of how?
Gaya Ethaniel: PaB / SL helps me in that when i see people here they are AV not people so i cancel out what i sea as in RL
Gaya Ethaniel: i try to do same with me, cancel out the physical me to gain concentration in understanding myself
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: Fael, perhaps I will - some other time! :)

Gaya Ethaniel: it's your first time here Timbo
Gaya Ethaniel: how are you finding it?
Storm Nordwind thinks poor Timbo is being put on the spot!
Gaya Ethaniel: lol
Timbo Quan: Interesting in one sense yet confusing in another
Adams Rubble slips quietly away into the afternoon with a warm goodbye to all :)
Storm Nordwind: Would you like to expand on that. I'm interested in ways we can ease confusion
Timbo Quan: Well at this point in time I am new the both SL & to the group here so I am trying to get my head around both the experience and the topic of discusion
Storm Nordwind: Ah yes. That's quite a challenge
Storm Nordwind: One point of course is that our topics are never planned and vary widely
Storm Nordwind: and wildly!
Timbo Quan: indeed
Storm Nordwind: And often diverge
Storm Nordwind: Sometimes we are very serious
Storm Nordwind: Sometimes we play!
Storm Nordwind: And it can switch from one to the other in a few seconds
Timbo Quan: Yes I can see that as a good thing
Storm Nordwind: So sometimes you'll find people suddenly putting on outrageous clothes
Storm Nordwind: or singing strange songs
Storm Nordwind: and then suddenly talking deep philosophy
Timbo Quan: I see
Gaya Ethaniel: wonders if she ever saw anyone singing before...

Gaya Ethaniel: at PaB
Storm Nordwind: Hmm... that might be a cue
Timbo Quan: Well I guess as was partioally covered before - SL allows for an amount of freedom
Storm Nordwind: And now...

Fael Illyar: Ok, that's fixed :)
Gaya Ethaniel: wow thank you

Storm Nordwind: from the sublime...
Storm Nordwind: to the ridiculous!
Storm Nordwind: Chokoreito Disco ♪
Gaya Ethaniel: swishy :)
Timbo Quan: very
Storm Nordwind: The mad monk dances

Storm Nordwind: Yay!!!
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Fael Illyar: Of course, there's also sirens, fireworks and neon but I guess I'll skip that.
Storm Nordwind: Please do!
Storm Nordwind: (skip it) :)

Gaya Ethaniel: wants to see the infamous rain
Storm Nordwind chuckles
Fael Illyar: :)
Storm Nordwind: The rain?
Gaya Ethaniel: i read in a blog that you threaten rain and it did?
Gaya Ethaniel: Storm that is
Storm Nordwind: Oh yes
Gaya Ethaniel: yes that infamous rain... pls
Storm Nordwind: I have magic words
Timbo Quan: Or magic passwords perhaps?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah no it's true!
Gaya Ethaniel: tries to be a true English and brave the rain without umbrella, only foreigners carry umbrella
Storm Nordwind nods
Rajah Yalin: i dont have an umbrella and im not english
Timbo Quan: or people who would liek to stay a little dry?
Gaya Ethaniel: breathes sigh no one notices that she in fact is a foreigner lol
Storm Nordwind knows Gaya's secret!
Rajah Yalin: people only carry umbrellas here if its been raining a week
Gaya Ethaniel: a week?
Rajah Yalin: 5 to 7 days yeah
Gaya Ethaniel: goodness me...
Storm Nordwind: When I visit Malaysia, I carry an umbrella everywhere
Storm Nordwind: A tiny one, in my pocket
Rajah Yalin: Im south of malaysia
Storm Nordwind: You have 5 seconds notice of a torrential downpour
Timbo Quan: an no umberallas
Storm Nordwind: Dakini has an umbrella she put up here
Storm Nordwind: Sometimes I forget to turn the rain off though
Storm Nordwind: by saying the magic words:
Storm Nordwind: rain off
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Storm Nordwind: Well this is a good example of playing in these meetings
Timbo Quan: yes a certain element of play there

Storm Nordwind: Timbo, did you hear the bell then, and did you know what it was?
Fael Illyar: Faenik participates in both play and serious aspects but you'll never know which way :)
Timbo Quan: yes heard bell but do not know what it means
Storm Nordwind smiles at Faenik
Storm Nordwind: Well the bell rings every 15 minutes
Storm Nordwind: on the quarter hour
Storm Nordwind: It is part of the Play as Being practice
Storm Nordwind: and is just a reminder
Storm Nordwind: The practice involves stopping for 9 seconds every 15 minutes
Storm Nordwind: and doing a brief meditation of sorts
Storm Nordwind: This is explained on our website(s)
Timbo Quan: yes I have seen that mentioned
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: We remind ourselves to play as Being for a while
Storm Nordwind: Pema Pera who founded this, calls it a 1% time tax
Storm Nordwind: because 9 seconds is 1% of 15 minutes
Storm Nordwind: And after the 9 seconds we are encouraged to note down any impressions we have
Storm Nordwind: and many people write these in blogs
Timbo Quan: I wondered about the 'tax' element of the name - who is the tax being payed to?
Storm Nordwind: Great question!
Storm Nordwind: Anyone want to answer that one? :)

Storm Nordwind hears the tumbleweed cross the Pavilion...

Fael Illyar: I'd say yourself :)
Fael Illyar: although, there is a chance of misunderstanding what I mean if I put it that way but ... :)
Timbo Quan: :)
Fael Illyar: I'm doubtful if it's possible to explain in a way that won't be misunderstood :)
Storm Nordwind: I think the word tax because it might be something that people give away reluctantly at first
Storm Nordwind: Most people dislike tax but see it as inevitable
Gaya Ethaniel: cringes as she saw the tumbleweeds & whurlie whurlie...
Storm Nordwind: And taxes are usually percentages
Fael Illyar: Yes, it's a sort of tax self pays to Being.
Storm Nordwind: But taxes always are supposed to give you something back for your payment
Timbo Quan: Yes I think I can see what you mean
Storm Nordwind: And what they give back (in Play as Being terms) can be very individual
Storm Nordwind: I can't say you will get this or that back
Storm Nordwind: But I'd encourage you to try it and see!
Fael Illyar: Better handle on your thoughts and feeling seems to be quite common.
Storm Nordwind nods
Timbo Quan: yes
Gaya Ethaniel: nods
Storm Nordwind: And don't think that it's every 15 minutes of the day at first.
Storm Nordwind: You could try it for just a couple of hours as a taster
Fael Illyar went straight to full time.
Storm Nordwind: But fael is right, many people find lots of benefits of self-awareness
Timbo Quan: I suspect taht actually remembering every 15 minutes would be a tax in its own right
Storm Nordwind: And hence the bell
Fael Illyar: oh, I use bell sounds for alarms
Timbo Quan: ah ok
Storm Nordwind: Many people who work at computers program a reminder
Fael Illyar: http://www.mindfulnessdc.org/<wbr/>mindfulclock.html
Fael Illyar: that one works if you use windows
Timbo Quan: cool
Storm Nordwind: I apologise if it sounds like we are proselytising!
Timbo Quan: no go right ahead :)
Rajah Yalin: ok well im going..............
Fael Illyar: Bye Rajah :)
Storm Nordwind: OK Rajah!
Timbo Quan: bye
Rajah Yalin: bye all
Gaya Ethaniel: see you
Storm Nordwind: It's a very practical thing and it is not a religious practice unless you want to make it so, and even then it would not be tied to a particular religion
Fael Illyar for example is doing it only because it helps to keep her mind clear.
Fael Illyar: ... ok, maybe only is too strict.
Fael Illyar: mostly
Storm Nordwind smiles
Timbo Quan: yes - yet in 9 seconds I wonder what one would do? There are times when any amount of time spend 'thinking' bring little while others when insight comes in a flash
Storm Nordwind: That is a good question and a common one
Storm Nordwind: I think in flashes and not linearly at all
Storm Nordwind: Quite irrational in fact
Fael Illyar: I wouldn't describe my thinking as irrational but there are no words.
Timbo Quan: For me personally 'not thinking' about something is often the best way
Storm Nordwind agrees
Fael Illyar: except if I'm imagining a dialogue.
Storm Nordwind: Yes
Fael Illyar: or talking to someone
Storm Nordwind: But Pema's idea was to reverse the normal practice. It is an experiment. We are seeing if it will work
Storm Nordwind: Normally one sits for some kind of meditation practice
Storm Nordwind: One sets aside 10 minutes
Storm Nordwind: or 20 minutes
Storm Nordwind: or more
Fael Illyar has been doing that too.
Storm Nordwind: and then the rest of the day, what?
Storm Nordwind: For many people this meditation becomes a wonderful thing to look forward to
Storm Nordwind: and that refreshes them
Storm Nordwind: but it is a separate part of their life very often
Storm Nordwind: With PaB we substitute frequency for duration
Storm Nordwind: After all 1% of a waking day is 10 minutes
Storm Nordwind: And many people spend that time in a short meditation sitting
Timbo Quan: yes I could see that being good for people

Fael Illyar: I'm beginning to think I might not have to set aside the 10-20 minutes for meditation for much longer. I'm noticing myself doing it while doing things.
Storm Nordwind: Yes Fael I agree...
Storm Nordwind: 35 years ago I learnt meditation for the first time...
Storm Nordwind: and the technique I learnt was something that I say formally twice a day to do...
Storm Nordwind: but after a while I found that I could do it all the time...
Storm Nordwind: and still do!
Gaya Ethaniel: how long after that Storm?
Storm Nordwind: within a year of starting
Gaya Ethaniel: wow that's fast
Storm Nordwind: I don't know
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps that is the technique
Storm Nordwind: Perhaps it is me
Storm Nordwind: or karma
Storm Nordwind: I don't know
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Storm Nordwind: I may actually be a slow learner!
Fael Illyar: considering it's a month and a half since I started regular meditation and being able to do that doing other things ...
Storm Nordwind: That is brilliant :)
Gaya Ethaniel: indeed
Fael Illyar: Although ... I've been doing things similar to meditation for years.
Storm Nordwind: similar?
Fael Illyar: Just missing some key points I guess.
Fael Illyar: Yes, I'm still not certain which of them count as similar or if any count but ...
Fael Illyar: I haven't really been doing any of them after starting meditation.
Fael Illyar: they were things I sometimes did because I felt like it.
Fael Illyar: I don't feel like I need to do them anymore.
Fael Illyar: sometimes, when my head felt like a mess, I used to go to lay on my bed and stare at the roof.
Fael Illyar: thinking about things ... I get the feeling I didn't cling much but I did at times have rather lengthy thoughts. Although I guess a lot of it was wordless.
Storm Nordwind nods
Fael Illyar: I also used to fall into something when returning home in a bus.
Fael Illyar: not really seeing the bus, just letting thoughts wander.
Gaya Ethaniel: is it like day-dreaming?
Fael Illyar: no memory left of the bus trip.
Storm Nordwind: So what you are doing now, in PaB and in meditation, has given you more structure and more technique?
Fael Illyar: Yes, you could say that.
Timbo Quan: brb
Fael Illyar: feels like I had been eating soup with a fork and now suddenly found a spoon.
Gaya Ethaniel: do you feel that day-dreaming is somewhat similar to meditation / PaB?
Storm Nordwind beams at Fael's metaphor!
Storm Nordwind: Peronally no I don't Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: yes Moon gave us fork & spoon metaphor...
Fael Illyar: you can thank moon for that one :)
Storm Nordwind: I don't find either like daydreaming
Storm Nordwind: The act of centering is an important part of meditation
Gaya Ethaniel: i don't either Storm just wanted to understand what Fael mean when she said she've been doing something similar to meditation
Fael Illyar: I'm not sure if day-dreaming is what I did
Fael Illyar: or what it is, really.
Gaya Ethaniel: 'centering' is a good way to describe it Storm
Gaya Ethaniel: but PaB is not essentially meditation is it?
Storm Nordwind: well...
Storm Nordwind: if you read the technique as described on the website, no
Storm Nordwind: but it borrows from similar techniques
Storm Nordwind: very ancient techniques
Gaya Ethaniel: nods
Storm Nordwind: The method - the schedule - is very different though
Gaya Ethaniel: i see
Fael Illyar: I find PaB to be rather intensive training on being able to let attachments go for a moment.
Storm Nordwind: Certainly those techniques have their associations with certain meditation practices
Storm Nordwind: That's a great observation Fael!
Gaya Ethaniel: yes indeed
Gaya Ethaniel: think i'm beginning to understand a little about PaB
Storm Nordwind: I found a good indicator for me at first was the profound physical effect it had on me as well.
Storm Nordwind: To be able to instantly jettison all stress
Storm Nordwind: And to achieve a completely relaxed state in a second or two
Gaya Ethaniel: nods
Storm Nordwind: Not emotional attachments or mental attachments maybe, but certainly symptoms of them
Fael Illyar: Yes, that's very useful

Storm Nordwind: By the way, Timbo, this is not necessarily a typical PaB meeting...
Storm Nordwind: we are scheduled - whatever that means - for 30 minute meetings!
Storm Nordwind: At least that what a guardian commits to
Storm Nordwind: But we can stay!
Storm Nordwind: And this one is nearly at an hour and a half!
Gaya Ethaniel: thanks Storm & the group
Timbo Quan: yes I had noticed that its gone a bit longer than advertised :)
Fael Illyar: I've had 2 hour long meetings sometimes ... although the last hour was usually just me and one of two others :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Neela
Storm Nordwind: Hi Neela
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Neela
Neela Blaisdale: Hello everyone
Timbo Quan: hello Neela
Storm Nordwind: In fact you can often pass by here and people will be there to chat!
Timbo Quan: how often are the scheduled meetings?
Storm Nordwind: Every six hours
Storm Nordwind: What time zone are you on Timbo?
Fael Illyar: We've got 4 meetings every day, 1am,7am,1pm,7pm SL Time.
Timbo Quan: UK timezone
Neela Blaisdale: Have you all been here since the 1 pm meeting?
Storm Nordwind: OK. Then 3am, 9am, 3pm and 9pm
Fael Illyar: Neela, yes
Gaya Ethaniel: yes
Storm Nordwind: Yes we have Neela
Faenik: ah :)
Timbo Quan: so there is a large sections of time in which people can talk 'out of meeting'
Storm Nordwind: Well when the guardian who is scheduled to be there is still there, it is all 'meeting'.
Storm Nordwind: Which reminds me Timbo...
Storm Nordwind: do you have any objection to your avatar's name being mentioned in a log of this on our website?
Timbo Quan: not at all
Storm Nordwind: Or things that you have said?
Storm Nordwind: The reason I ask is that I will publish the chat log from this meeting on our Wiki
Storm Nordwind: But I can edit your comments out if you wish
Storm Nordwind: Sometimes that happens
Timbo Quan: no thats fine
Storm Nordwind nods
Storm Nordwind: Thank you
Timbo Quan: np
Storm Nordwind: A change of subject... Neela have you visited your plot?
Neela Blaisdale: No I just got back and I was on my way there saw you all and stopped to say hello. I can't wait!
Storm Nordwind: OK!
Storm Nordwind: Well I may call it a day now for me anyway as I have RL things to attend to. But first I will show Neela her new plot of land.
Storm Nordwind: Timbo please stay if you wish!
Timbo Quan: thankyou & nice to meet you
Neela Blaisdale: Good bye Gaya,Timbo,Fael and Avatsu
Gaya Ethaniel: good night
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Storm :)
Timbo Quan: bye
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friends
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
Gaya Ethaniel: see you Neela
Fael Illyar: Bye Avastu