That afternoon, just before 1 pm, I met Adelene near my house, and after talking for a while we walked up to the pavilion nearby, where we met Doug and Gen.
Pema Pera: Hi Doug!
Pema Pera: Have you met Adelene yet?
Pema Pera: Hi Gen!
doug Sosa: hi (always forge to turn on chat!)
Pema Pera: haha, easy to do
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: Gen, meet Adelene!
Adelene Dawner: Hello, all. :)
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Adelene nice to make your acquaintance
Pema Pera: Adelene has crossed path with PaB only a few days ago, but has jumped in right away, with gusto
genesis Zhangsun: hey solo!
Pema Pera: Hi Solo!
doug Sosa: hi.
Solobill Laville: Good day, all!
genesis Zhangsun: great!
Pema Pera: I can’t stay too long
Pema Pera: but I just wanted to say hi, now that I’m no longer asleep during these afternoon meetings, having returned to the US from my stay in Japan
genesis Zhangsun: Glad to hear that you are enthusiastic Adelene!
doug Sosa: jet lag?
Pema Pera: not much
Pema Pera: used to it
Soon after Solobill had arrived, Storm dropped by as well.
Pema Pera: hi Storm!
genesis Zhangsun: wonderful of you to join us!
doug Sosa: jet lag shows up in the 9 sec as a kind of heavy tide
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Storm
Storm Nordwind: Hi!
Solobill Laville: How’s the Berkeley coffee, Pema? ;)
Solobill Laville: hi Storm
Solobill Laville: That can help with jet lag I’m told :)
Pema Pera: Great, Solo, I’m in “berkeley espresso” — even the name of the place connects :)
Pema Pera: and free wifi
Solobill Laville: hehe
Pema Pera: what more do I want?
Solobill Laville: brb
Pema Pera: I guess I’m a few hundred yards away from Gen in RL :)
doug Sosa: a breeze, and peace in our time.
Storm Nordwind smiles
Pema Pera: Doug, you’re asking for a lot!
genesis Zhangsun: wow yes I know Berkeley espresso but haven’t had their coffee
genesis Zhangsun: i am more of a tea person usually
doug Sosa: well, you asked…
genesis Zhangsun: Fael and I had a funny discussion about coffee last week
Pema Pera: ;)
Storm Nordwind takes a sip of diet coke in RL
Pema Pera: yes, I read in the blog
genesis Zhangsun: yes thats right
genesis Zhangsun: she loves the toblerone coffee
doug Sosa: pema, will you run the blog dialog through a super computer and look for constellations?
genesis Zhangsun: a friend of mine from RL should be here any moment
Pema Pera puzzled about stars in blogs . . . .
doug Sosa: stars?
doug Sosa: well, stars yes, given that most are dressed for the oscars
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: Adelene and I just had a great conversation
genesis Zhangsun: yes?
Pema Pera: just before this session
Pema Pera: She had mentioned earlier that she is autistic
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Myoko!
Pema Pera: Aspergers to be more precise
genesis Zhangsun: Welcome to the new location
genesis Zhangsun: nice huh?
Pema Pera: Hi Myoko!
genesis Zhangsun: myoko hasn’t been back since we moved
Adelene Dawner: Actually, Pema, please do not use that term to refer to me. It may be accurate, but the division of the spectrum in that way only leads to problems.
Pema Pera: Myoko, come join us
Myoko arrived, and Adelene talked about the life and world of being autistic.
Pema Pera: sorry Adelene, you prefer “autistic” of the best term?
Adelene Dawner nods. “autistic” is fine. And not ‘person with autism’, either.
Pema Pera: thanks!
genesis Zhangsun: how does this affect your life Adelene?
Pema Pera: please make sure to correct us if we misuse a term
doug Sosa: good clarity
Myoko Fhang: Hi guys. Great being here.
doug Sosa: hi
Storm Nordwind needs to relog. brb
genesis Zhangsun: yes welcome I am glad you came!
Adelene Dawner: Many ways, Genesis, which are hard to pin down as I’m not entirely sure how *you guys* function, either, to make good comparisons.
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm yes good point
Pema Pera: Adelene, can you give us the web site you mentioned? I found that very interesting to read.
Adelene Dawner: The most relevant part here is that I tend to think slowly, and not be able to hold two thoughts at once - I can’t listen and think at the same time. I can more easily read and think, though, by doing them sequentially in small parts. Go ahead, Pema, sorry for the aside.
Pema Pera: np Adelene!
Pema Pera: please continue
Pema Pera: Hi ThreeDee!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Threedee!
Threedee Shepherd: hello
Threedee joined us, and all in all there were eight of us.
Adelene Dawner: The other part that’s relevant here is that I don’t do certain kinds of social chatting, which are difficult and less than meaningful to me. I don’t mind if other people do, though. But if I seem quiet, it’s likely because of that.
Storm Nordwind nods
doug Sosa: we all should be so focused.
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
genesis Zhangsun: is it just me or did the chime not go off?
genesis Zhangsun: maybe i’ve become deaf?
Pema Pera: http://aspergersquare8.blogspot.com/2007/07/scripted-language-and-authenticity.html
Adelene Dawner: Chime went off for me, maybe the sound isn’t loaded for you.
Storm Nordwind: It did go off. I’m just adding something to my blog about it!
Pema Pera: is the web site that Adelene showed me
Pema Pera: What I was struck by, reading that web site, was the way in which the contrast between austistic and non-austistic was relevant for the PaB discussions we have had about what we really are
doug Sosa: this could be very helpful.
Pema Pera: beyond all our usual identifications, like gender or job or nationality, etc, what we are is something totally different
Pema Pera: each of us brings in a different angle, and different identifications that we can wear lightly — and Adelene has just broadened our angles even further
Threedee Shepherd: Pema, is it “something totally different” or “something totally more”?
Pema Pera: you could say more, but in the sense that it is not just “more elements of the same kind”
Threedee Shepherd: mmhmm
Pema Pera: it is “more” in the sense of “beyond”
Pema Pera: and at the same time it is what everything already is
Adelene Dawner: A level of ’self’ that most people don’t usually consider :)
Pema Pera: it is the base of everything else
Solobill Laville: Fascinating website Adelene, thank you!
Adelene Dawner: :)
genesis Zhangsun: Yes thank you Adelene!
doug Sosa: i got lost. what is “it”?
Pema Pera: Being
Pema Pera: as being beyond identifications
genesis Zhangsun: different combinations of being
doug Sosa: oh, that “IT”
Pema Pera: ;)
genesis Zhangsun: or different reconfigurations
Pema Pera: I have sometimes used an an (imperfect) metaphor: Being is a bit like the light from the projector , the base of a movie, yet not any element
doug Sosa: it is also the dark of the movie
Pema Pera: yes, indeed!
Adelene gave more web pointers.
Adelene Dawner: For those who find that blog useful… I have another one that is in many parts an even deeper/clearer discussion of brain function and the results thereof.
Adelene Dawner: http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/
Solobill Laville: ty!
Solobill Laville: Pema, do you think then that it is no also the projector?
Solobill Laville: *not
doug Sosa: how can one “save” a url iposted in a chat?
Pema Pera: Adelene, which entry in that last URL?
doug Sosa: No, the projector is just an intermediary.
Solobill Laville: hmmm
Storm Nordwind: Doug, you can check your own chat log if you have one, or click on the URL in the Local chat window (Communicate), launch the browser and bookmark it.
Adelene Dawner: The blog itself is useful; it would be hard to pick out specific entries, though I can find one or two quickly.
Pema Pera: oh, sure, Solo, you can include the projector, as well as all elements going into the making of the movie — and which are not visible within the movie, when we focus on the normally obvious “parts” of the movie
Solobill Laville: I should add to my last question; and the chairs, and the screen, and popcorn, etc.
Pema Pera: Thanks, Adelene!
Solobill Laville: ah, yes
Pema Pera: yes, Solo, but as I said the metaphor is imperfect
Pema Pera: Being sounds like an abstract word, but is the most concrete resource for us
Solobill Laville: well, they all are, but yours are pretty good ;)
Pema Pera: So to connect with what Adelene said
Pema Pera: and the conversation I had with her just before this session
genesis Zhangsun: how so Pema?
genesis Zhangsun: how is it concrete?
Pema Pera: I think that the struggle that autists have in understanding how to deal with us non-autists
Pema Pera: and conversely, the challenges we face in dealing with autists
doug Sosa: bell, i need to bye
Solobill Laville: bye doug
Pema Pera: are very relevant to this question of Being as a resource
genesis Zhangsun: bye doug
Threedee Shepherd: bye
Pema Pera: bye Doug!
Storm Nordwind waves
Doug left, and Adelene gave us some more specific pointers.
Pema Pera: Let me try to say in a few words
Adelene Dawner: http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=287 . http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=431 . http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=449 . http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?page_id=462 . http://ballastexistenz.autistics.org/?p=510
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Pema Pera: whenever we deal with challenges, there is a separation: two sides of an argument, two contrasting or conflicting notions or ideas or situations
Pema Pera: and Being is what can be found to be what is beyond/in/under/as those distinctions
Pema Pera: everything we normally deal with is mired in dualism
Pema Pera: dichotomies
Meesha Cuttita: they seem to be having the meeting right now
Pema Pera: but Being is what can help us make sense of those dichotomies
Meesha Cuttita: if you like, we could join?
Pema Pera: hi Meesha!
Meesha Cuttita: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: of course, any time!
genesis Zhangsun: Hi meesha!
Leelaji Inshan: Yes
Meesha Cuttita: I’m showing my friend around
Storm Nordwind: Plenty of room in here!
Pema Pera: Hi Leelaji
genesis Zhangsun: Yes i think i understand it is the base from which we can form common understanding
Pema Pera: please sit down
Meesha Cuttita: and it looks like we came just in time
Meesha Cuttita: This is Leelaji
Meesha and Leelaji joined us, so there were nine of us, after Doug had left.
genesis Zhangsun: even if we cannot know exactly what the “other” experience is exactly like
Leelaji Inshan: Hallo
Solobill Laville: So then, knowing Being experientially? Or simply as an intellectual understanding as well?
Storm Nordwind: What a great name - Leelaji. Namaste!
Solobill Laville: Hello!
genesis Zhangsun: yes good question Solo
Solobill Laville: I think that may be a leap of faith for some (the latter)
Pema Pera: Not only intellectually, Solo, not only experientially, all of those and more and to be more precise:
Pema Pera: it is Being knowing us rather than we knowing Being
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
Pema Pera: What a great crowd today!
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
genesis Zhangsun: hmmmm that is so interesting
genesis Zhangsun: i have felt this in the 9 second practice recently
genesis Zhangsun: oops
genesis Zhangsun: like a entity that is getting to know me
genesis Zhangsun: and becoming more comfortable with me
genesis Zhangsun: sounds a little crazy :)
Pema Pera: yes, very much — we normally overlook what we really ARE
genesis Zhangsun: but seems like the right place to say these things
Adelene Dawner: The way I see it… I am Being. I am, at this moment, using an autistic body/mind to gain certain experiences and lessons that I need to have in order to grow, and I’m also using this body/mind to share lessons with other aspects of Being.
Pema Pera: exactly, Adelene!
Storm Nordwind bows to this insight
Solobill Laville: :)) That is a great thing, Adelene!
genesis Zhangsun: so we are the projectors?
genesis Zhangsun: being is the light?
Pema Pera: so whenever we forget this, and return to being something else, seemingly, we use a trick: we “play as Being”, as if we were Being, and then we can remember, and return to Being playing us :-)
Pema Pera: Being is everything
Pema Pera: but no “thing”, and also no “collection of things”
Pema Pera: Being is All
Adelene Dawner: Being is the light, and the projector, and the people watching the movie, and everything else.
Pema Pera: yes!
Pema Pera: Being is the Great Player, playing all and everything
Pema Pera: the dreamer of the dream
Pema Pera: yet the dream itself as well
Meesha Cuttita: may i ask how you know this?
Pema Pera: and Being reaches us its hand, to help us, to help us recognize who we are
Pema Pera: The short answer, Meesha, is that I have learned to see/recognize this, to some extent
Pema Pera: like seeing that the theorem of Pythagoras is true
Storm and I fall in with Adelene’s comment about there being nothing to reach for.
Adelene Dawner: There is no ‘reach’, I think, Pema. We already *are* being. We just don’t always remember it.
Pema Pera: yes, exactly, Adelene!
Storm Nordwind nods
genesis Zhangsun: then who we are is Being
Meesha Cuttita: but when this is a concept, it becomes just another concept of the mind, or so it seems to me
Meesha Cuttita: another form of identification
Pema Pera: oh yes, Meesha, no concept
Pema Pera: we just use words to convey
Pema Pera: to talk
Meesha Cuttita: the mind wants to identify, find a self somewhere
Meesha Cuttita: if it’s not in this body, wellč then a concept of some sort
Solobill Laville: That is the intellectualization dilemma…
genesis Zhangsun: or the limit of words
genesis Zhangsun: Pema when you say it helps us recognize who we are
Gaya Ethaniel thinks there are so many gems from this conversation to put into her diary tonight
genesis Zhangsun: is this who we are as a form of Being?
Solobill Laville: an expression of Being
Meesha Cuttita: In my opinion, we cannot learn it
Pema Pera: We can learn to see everything as Being
Pema Pera: including ourselves
Meesha Cuttita: no matter how many books are written, you still have to experience it
Pema Pera: yes
Pema Pera: not learn as an intellectual thing, I mean, Meesha
Solobill Laville: yes
Pema Pera: learn as in learning to open your eyes
Storm Nordwind: We cannot read and learn it, but we can become it by unbecoming what we are really not
Meesha Cuttita: yes that’s where i see the danger in talking about it… the mind conceptualizes it
Pema Pera: learning to stop closing our eyes
Solobill Laville: yes
Adelene Dawner: Being is everything, and it has differentiated… split, in a way… in order to allow the parts to interact and refine themselves. The entire point of that differentiation is learning - every Thing that exists, exists as a lesson or part of one.
Meesha Cuttita: right
Pema Pera: yes, Meesha
Gaya Ethaniel nods
genesis Zhangsun: to teach what lesson?
I brought up Stevenaia’s characterisation of Being as Love.
Pema Pera: Yes, Adelene, and Being can also be called Love, as Stevenaia here once said
Gaya Ethaniel: how so Pema?
Solobill Laville: It can also be called a Miracle, or so I’ve felt
Adelene Dawner: I don’t think I can even begin to put words to that, Genesis.
Threedee Shepherd: If there is interest I would go back to words: The Tao states, “the name you can say isn’t the real name.” Does that imply there is a real “name” and if so is it word, concept, thought, or something else, or more?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
genesis Zhangsun: acceptable
Pema Pera: no “real” word, Threedee, only pointers, like “Tao”
Solobill Laville: no, no name Threedee
Pema Pera: and Gaya, Love is complete, like Being
Gaya Ethaniel: in that case why would you choose a particular word to describe Being ie Love, Miracle?
Pema Pera: in fact can be used as interchangeable pointers
Solobill Laville: or the finger pointing toward the moon
Pema Pera: some pointers are more useful than others, Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry I meant why particularly Love as Being*
genesis Zhangsun: yes i love that saying solo
Solobill Laville: yes, we get stuck on looking at the finger; i.e. the words
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Meesha Cuttita: maybe because love has no antonym, miracle either
Meesha Cuttita: and being is not a dualistic concept
Pema Pera: yes!
Meesha Cuttita: you could say Middle Way
Gaya Ethaniel hears pins drop
Gaya Ethaniel: ah i see
genesis Zhangsun: nice way to say that Meesha
Pema Pera: What we can do here is help each other to see, more and more, and we are using words to celebrate that seeing, not to “reach” it or “construct” it
Pema Pera: celebrate and confirm
Gaya Ethaniel: Would you say sense instead of see too?
Pema Pera: sure
Pema Pera: two different words for pointing to the same thing
Gaya Ethaniel: I ‘feel’ or ’sense’ Being rather than ’see’
Pema Pera: “seeing” conveys the clarity
Pema Pera: “sensing” conveys the intimacy
Threedee Shepherd: to wander closely around what is unseen can leave paths that help *outline* it
Pema Pera: very much so
Pema Pera: and that can be shared, as we do here
Gaya Ethaniel: ok i see it Threedee
Storm Nordwind: Like the Indian chant of “neti neti” Threedee
Gaya Ethaniel wonders what neti neti means
Storm Nordwind: “not thus, not thus…”
Threedee Shepherd: similar
Gaya Ethaniel: thanks Storm
Then I asked Adelene the same question that Meesha had asked me.
Pema Pera: Adelene, my turn to ask: how do you know all that, about Being :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: so now I’m seeing Being, who is seeing Being?
Adelene Dawner: Good question. I wish I knew the answer myself. :)
Pema Pera: :)
genesis Zhangsun: Do you feel a sense of distance from people and events Adelene?
Pema Pera: Being is seeing Being, Gaya
Meesha Cuttita: gaya, that question is like the sound of one hand clapping, lol
Adelene Dawner: Gaya: Being is seeing being. I can see my hand, and my hand is still me.
genesis Zhangsun: not in an unpleasant way but a sense of detachment?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adelene Dawner: Genesis: Yeah, a bit.
Pema Pera: haha, Adelene, thinking alike there
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Storm Nordwind: Being is the process and the processed, the seer, the seen and the seeing
genesis Zhangsun: I wonder if that give you a wider perspective
genesis Zhangsun: which Being seems to require
genesis Zhangsun: than to be caught in symbolic chatter
Adelene Dawner: Different. Perhaps wider. I can’t compare it to normal modes, obviously.
Pema Pera: and yes, Meesha, all those hands are one hand . . . clapping
Gaya Ethaniel thinks Adele is very good at putting things in plain way
Meesha then poses a central question, to all of us.
Meesha Cuttita: can i ask you all one thing?
Meesha Cuttita: why are you practicing this?
Meesha Cuttita: what is your purpose?
Storm Nordwind: It is an experiment
Gaya Ethaniel: Being for me doesn’t stay in same size, if that makes sense
Adelene Dawner: I *can* say that my normal mindstate is very similar to what I’ve read about meditation. So the things that people get from meditation, it’s unsurprising that they’re easy for me.
Solobill Laville: It is to hone my mindfulness
Storm Nordwind: To investigate a way of reaching that experience
Meesha Cuttita: hm, so in you wanting to reach an experience you might be surprised to find there is no you, lol
Meesha Cuttita: be careful… thin ice
Pema Pera: I like to know reality, what reality really is.
Pema Pera: oh sure, Meesha!
Pema Pera: very surprising
Pema Pera: no me
Gaya Ethaniel: Meesha, mainly to feel at east & peace
Pema Pera: very liberating
Solobill Laville: hehe, that is a great fear Meesha!
genesis Zhangsun: to be free
Meesha Cuttita: free yes
Threedee Shepherd: if the found is not another illusion, it must be what is to be dealt with
Gaya Ethaniel: ease*
Pema Pera: reaching is impossible, as Adelene emphasized
Meesha Cuttita: wonderful
Solobill Laville: But to realize there is no little you, only Big Everything is a wonderful thing
Meesha Cuttita: hahaha, yes Solobill
Meesha Cuttita: so you’re not really doing it to liberate YOURSELF
Gaya Ethaniel: I personally do not ’seek a knowledge’, just to be able to love everything, including myself
Meesha Cuttita: but to liberate all sentient beings
genesis Zhangsun: I must be going now
Pema Pera: Here is a hint: think of ANY experience you had that was really wonderful - and you will remember that the sense of you was de-emphasized in that experience
Storm Nordwind: That describes me Meesha
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Solobill Laville: Bye, Gen!!
genesis Zhangsun: bye everyone
Pema Pera: bye Gen!
One by one we start to leave.
Myoko Fhang: Past bed time for me (currently in Denmark), so I got to go. Very inspiring, thannks for inviting me Genesis
Adelene Dawner: cya Gen
genesis Zhangsun: should I post this chat log?
Storm Nordwind waves
Meesha Cuttita: bye genesis
genesis Zhangsun: or would someone else like to post the whole thing?
Threedee Shepherd: bye
Pema Pera: Thanks Myoko, please come join us any time you like
Solobill Laville: I’m leaving as well, Gen
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Pema Pera: 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm
Pema Pera: Bye Solo!
Meesha Cuttita: me too, it was nice to see you all, bye bye
Myoko Fhang: Nice being her.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
genesis Zhangsun: bye myoko!
genesis Zhangsun: nice of you to come!
Pema Pera: and yes, I have to leave too
genesis Zhangsun: good night!
Solobill Laville: Thanks, all, nice to meet so many of you!
Pema Pera: what a wonderful conversation!
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Threedee Shepherd: yes
Pema Pera: Thank you all, and especially Adelene!
Adelene Dawner: Indeed ^.^
Pema Pera: till next time!
Storm Nordwind: Namaste
