2008.07.15 13:00 - Coffee and PaB?

The Guardian for this meeting was genesis Zhangsun. The comments are from whoever feels like writing them.

Fael Illyar: Hi Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Fael
Faenik loves wells!
Gaya Ethaniel: how r u today?
Fael Illyar: I'm good, you?
Gaya Ethaniel: not bad at all :)
Gaya Ethaniel: r u always login?
Gaya Ethaniel: logged in?
Fael Illyar: First time I had a really busy day today after starting PaB.
Fael Illyar: Usually, but not today
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: i'm here to meet Genesis
Fael Illyar: Ah :)
Gaya Ethaniel: don't think i've met him/her before
Fael Illyar: her

Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok thanks :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Udge :)
Udge Watanabe: hello!
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Udge
Udge Watanabe: hello fael, gyay
Udge Watanabe: *gaya
Udge Watanabe: sorry

Gaya Ethaniel: np pls feel free to join us
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams
Udge Watanabe: hello adams
Gaya Ethaniel: hi Adams :)
Fael Illyar: exceptional day, 4 people here before 1pm :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Fael, Hi Gaya, Hi Udge :)
Udge Watanabe smiles
Udge Watanabe: brb

Fael Illyar: Hi gen :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Gen
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Fael!
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Adams!
Gaya Ethaniel: hi genesis
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Gaya
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to meet you
Gaya Ethaniel: same here :)
Udge Watanabe: hello genesis
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to meet you too Udge
Udge Watanabe: Fael, you're here incognito today?
Fael Illyar: incognito?
Udge Watanabe: no tag :-)
Udge Watanabe: or do I mean "off duty"?
Adams Rubble: :)
Faenik: indeed?
Fael Illyar: the tag is not necessary :)
Adams Rubble: not mandatory
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: :)
Fael Illyar: I had a rather busy day today. First time after starting PaB.
genesis Zhangsun: yes?
genesis Zhangsun: what kind of busy?
Fael Illyar: Where that'd usually have left me very exhausted and worn out. Not only did I avoid that but I managed things better than usual. :)
Fael Illyar: the sort that used to have me feeling like there is a whole truckload of things I need to do and not enough time to do them.
genesis Zhangsun: ah nice sometime to test out the practice in this way not only in quiet times but chaotic times
Fael Illyar: Well, the day felt sort of like I was meditating the whole day.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: but I was still doing things too
Fael Illyar: even things requiring concentration.
genesis Zhangsun: it seems the effect of the practice is very strong for you Fael
Fael Illyar: interruptions had very little effect on my concentration
Fael Illyar: Quite ... interesting experience.
genesis Zhangsun: did you have a chime going during the day or were you able to drop in by yourself?
Fael Illyar: I did have the chime since this was work from home.
Fael Illyar: but I found I didn't need to especially do anything most of the time when it rang. I was already detached from things.
genesis Zhangsun: and even in the business of the day did you feel that the quality of the 9 seconds was uncompromised?
genesis Zhangsun: ah yes sorry you sort of answered this
Adams Rubble: Wow that is something Fael
Udge Watanabe nods.
Fael Illyar: Well, it was sort of do it or "be crushed" sort of thing.
genesis Zhangsun: hmmm yes I can relate to this
Adams Rubble doesn't like to be crushed
genesis Zhangsun: a time when it is necessary to stay calm and collected or be crushed
genesis Zhangsun: :)
Fael Illyar: Yes :)
Fael Illyar: I wasn't in panic trying to remember what I had to do next :)
Fael Illyar: although, the effect has worn off a bit now. I wonder if I'm "relaxing" the meditation now that I'm having a pause :P
Faenik: why not?
Gaya Ethaniel: anyone with negative experience due to meditation?
Udge Watanabe shakes his head
genesis Zhangsun: yes sure I guess I have
genesis Zhangsun: not as a result of meditating
Fael Illyar: I've talked with one person who was negative about it but not willing to share anything about why.
genesis Zhangsun: but because what was already underneath was negative
Udge Watanabe: ah, yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: yes i know what u mean genesis
Gaya Ethaniel: i guess 'due to' is not quite a right word for it
Fael Illyar: I find meditation is simply a tool that helps in knowing yourself.
genesis Zhangsun: yes but i suppose in these moments I would have been feeling negative anyway
Faenik loves wells!
Udge Watanabe: meditation happened to lift that particular rock, then?
Gaya Ethaniel: for me meditation can amplify, does this make sense?
genesis Zhangsun: yes I think this is what I am trying to get at
genesis Zhangsun: amplify negativity already present
genesis Zhangsun: may i make a request?
Gaya Ethaniel: yes
genesis Zhangsun: Next time the bell chimes can we all write one word
Fael Illyar: One thing I've noted after starting meditation and having been quite calm for several weeks is that if there is a disturbance, it comes out stronger.
genesis Zhangsun: its nice to share :)
Gaya Ethaniel: brb excuse me
Adams Rubble doesn't have sound on this computer
genesis Zhangsun: hmm how so Fael?
Adams Rubble: BRB
Fael Illyar: Well if I think back to the day before yesterday, I don't recall having that sort of mental storm before.
Udge Watanabe: what happened then?
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: Not much, really. I was just acting rather disturbed here.
Udge Watanabe: that's unlike you.
Fael Illyar: aware of it but not able to figure out what to do with it.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: and blaming coffee for it :P
genesis Zhangsun: lol yes coffee!
Udge Watanabe: well, y'know, there is some truth in that. It is a strong stimulant
Adams Rubble: back
Udge Watanabe: wb
Fael Illyar: Even if coffee brought it out, it didn't cause it.
genesis Zhangsun: I always feel horrible drinking coffee
genesis Zhangsun: i don't know what that says about me :)
Udge Watanabe: I discovered for the first time today, that I do too.
Udge Watanabe: I had to give up coffee about two weeks ago because of medicatio I was taking.
Adams Rubble: I don;t drink it
Udge Watanabe: Had a cup this morning, and was irritable and jittery and unconcentrated after.
Udge Watanabe: for *hours*
genesis Zhangsun: Fael do you drink coffee regularly?
Fael Illyar: I don't drink it often. I just bought this toblerone cappucino package that's got 8 packages in it and still a couple left.
genesis Zhangsun: ummm that sounds evil :) I love toblerone
genesis Zhangsun: is this the same as the chocolate?
Fael Illyar: this is the only sort of coffee drink I actually like the taste of :)
Fael Illyar: it's a cross between hot chocolate and coffee
Fael Illyar: and milk of course
genesis Zhangsun: i know i promised in the past not to be inane and ask you about what "FIns" do but do Finnish people generally drink a lot of coffee?
Fael Illyar: anyway, the first 3 days drinking one cup per day, I did feel irritable, frustrated and such for seemingly no reason.
Udge Watanabe: heheh
Fael Illyar: it's usually written "Finns" though :P
genesis Zhangsun: oops sorry
Fael Illyar: Yes, I think majority do drink coffee
Udge Watanabe: Germans certainly do, more than beer even.
genesis Zhangsun: yes? are you German Udge?
Fael Illyar: however, after my major disturbance at the 1pm meeting the day before yesterday, I was feeling completely calm, no problems whatsoever
Udge Watanabe: no, but I live in Germany.
genesis Zhangsun: in Berlin?
genesis Zhangsun: by any chance?
Udge Watanabe: Stuttgart, actually, where the cars come from :-)
Fael Illyar: it continued the next day so I decided to test to make sure if it was the coffee or if the real cause was elsewhere and coffee just brought it out.
genesis Zhangsun: hmm... ok just curious I was living in Berlin until November of last year
Udge Watanabe: mm?
Fael Illyar: so I continued drinking it. I haven't had a problem since.
genesis Zhangsun: yes probably makes sense that coffee is not the "cause"
genesis Zhangsun: of unpleasantness
genesis Zhangsun: good that you continued perhaps?
Udge Watanabe: it answered the quetsion, at least.
Fael Illyar: Well, I don't know about good or bad :)
genesis Zhangsun: oops was I getting dualistic again ;)
Fael Illyar: I just don't want to leave them in the box unused if they're not the cause :)
Fael Illyar: I like the taste, after all :)
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: I must leave you now. bye everyone :)
Fael Illyar: Bye Adams :)
Udge Watanabe: bye adams
genesis Zhangsun: bye Adams!
genesis Zhangsun: take care
Udge Watanabe: we need an alternative to the coffee machine. A juice bar, perhaps?
Fael Illyar: whirlpool
Udge Watanabe: heheheheh
genesis Zhangsun: tuning fork
Fael Illyar: (Gen wanted a word after the bell) ;)
Udge Watanabe: massage
Udge Watanabe: (my word)
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: in some ways today felt like tightrope walking too.
Udge Watanabe: I missed the bell, thnks for the reminder.
genesis Zhangsun: thanks for writing a word

Fael Illyar: Hi Solo
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Solo!
Solobill Laville: Hi!
Udge Watanabe: hello solo
Solobill Laville: :)
genesis Zhangsun: ooo nice shirt!
Fael Illyar: tightrope walking in the sense of having to correct the balance every once in a while.
Fael Illyar: Well, slow motion though :)
Udge Watanabe: brb, need to walk about a bit.
Solobill Laville: ty - Ryusho...
genesis Zhangsun: yeah I thought so!
genesis Zhangsun: has he opened his shop?
Solobill Laville: oh, yes, stright back behind you
genesis Zhangsun: will have to check it out
Fael Illyar: I guess modifying your shape (and face) and switching skin isn't visible enough to attract comments from most people.
genesis Zhangsun: oops sorry?
Solobill Laville: hehe
Solobill Laville: I just hadn't had time yet Fael
genesis Zhangsun: funny the things we notice
Solobill Laville: Wowza!
Fael Illyar: :)
Solobill Laville: Really amazing
Fael Illyar: thank you :)
Solobill Laville: Did you do all of the clothes Fael?
Fael Illyar: I can only take credit for the shape. The skin isn't my doing. Neither are the clothes.
Solobill Laville: Ok, still, wonderful!
Fael Illyar: I only chose them from an ocean of alternatives :P
Solobill Laville: Are you doing animations as well?
Fael Illyar: no, not those ... at least not yet
Fael Illyar: the wings are mine though
Solobill Laville: Yes, I remembered that
Faenik: why not?
Solobill Laville: Wow, the new skins look so great...
Fael Illyar: new skins?
Solobill Laville: Sorry, some of the new skins I've seen lately...
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, I guess SL is attracting more talent :)
Solobill Laville: But I don't mean to throw off the discussion...
genesis Zhangsun: not at all
genesis Zhangsun: you know Fael I have been meaning to ask you
genesis Zhangsun: about something you said
genesis Zhangsun: in one of the sessions I read
genesis Zhangsun: I am sorry my memory is a little fuzzy
genesis Zhangsun: so i don't exactly remember which one
genesis Zhangsun: but you said something about how you at some point realized that you had "stopped caring" as a way of coping
genesis Zhangsun: sorry if this is a total misstatement
genesis Zhangsun: but maybe you can remember the context?
Fael Illyar: no, it's quite correct.
Solobill Laville: Sorry, all, must go, RL biz call...bye
Fael Illyar: Bye Solo :)
genesis Zhangsun: bye solo!
genesis Zhangsun: nice to see you :)
genesis Zhangsun: yes could you talk a bit more about this
genesis Zhangsun: i found if very interesting
Fael Illyar: I was recognising that caring about things makes it hard if you lose them.
genesis Zhangsun: because at time I find such a fine line between "distancing" yourself in a calming way
genesis Zhangsun: and distancing in a detaching way
genesis Zhangsun: yes that is true
genesis Zhangsun: and not caring?
Fael Illyar: so my reaction at the time was to keep caring down
Fael Illyar: I never succeeded at that completely.
Fael Illyar: and I guess I never tried to completely stop caring about anything.
Udge Watanabe: back, sorry
Fael Illyar: but for things I felt I couldn't trust to stay, I'd hold back the caring.
genesis Zhangsun: For me it is a difficult balance
Fael Illyar: That balance is what I was trying to keep today. Hence the tightrope walking comparison.
genesis Zhangsun: of caring enough to stay present and not caring so much I get "carried away"
genesis Zhangsun: yes that is a good analogy
Faenik: why not?
genesis Zhangsun: eyes
Fael Illyar: a couple of times I ended up momentarily not caring much of anything and I just sat and stared until I realized that's not a good idea.
genesis Zhangsun: yes?
Fael Illyar: I can't really explain how I did it.
Fael Illyar: but I somehow pushed myself back from there.
Fael Illyar: I didn't have big problems with staying out of the other end.
Fael Illyar: mostly because that actually feels bad to get closer to.
genesis Zhangsun: yes i think i know what you mean not caring is seductive
genesis Zhangsun: comfortable
Fael Illyar: comfortable but not fun.
Fael Illyar: if you have the balance right, it can become fun to do things.
Udge Watanabe nods.
genesis Zhangsun: yes thats right for me this is what PaB is essentially about
genesis Zhangsun: this playfulness
genesis Zhangsun: from a freedom
genesis Zhangsun: of caring and not caring at the same time
Fael Illyar: Yes, I felt quite free today.

Fael Illyar: I almost could feel my mind being in liquid form.
Gorobei Kaligawa: hi
genesis Zhangsun: oh thats sounds delicious
Fael Illyar: Hi Gorobei
genesis Zhangsun: Hi Gorbei
Udge Watanabe: hello gorobei
Gorobei Kaligawa: may I sit down with you?
genesis Zhangsun: sure
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.61359, -0.29019, 0.66386, 0.31400>
genesis Zhangsun: you are welcome
Gorobei Kaligawa: thanks
Gorobei Kaligawa: well what's up?
Gorobei Kaligawa: I'm new here
genesis Zhangsun: well I guess it is a meeting of sort
genesis Zhangsun: we are playing as being
genesis Zhangsun: have you heard of this concept
genesis Zhangsun: ?
genesis Zhangsun: I am assuming perhaps not
Gorobei Kaligawa: playing?
Gorobei Kaligawa: who's playing
genesis Zhangsun: yes well I guess discussing our experiences
Fael Illyar: Playing at Being
genesis Zhangsun: it is a practice
Faenik: indeed?
Gorobei Kaligawa: never heard of
Udge Watanabe: well, in certain senses, everyone is all the time.
genesis Zhangsun: http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Gorobei Kaligawa: if there is no one to play who's the player?
genesis Zhangsun: you can check it out here if you would
genesis Zhangsun: sorry if you would like
Gorobei Kaligawa: yes I would
Udge Watanabe: roleplaying rather than playing cards :-)
Faenik: indeed?
Fael Illyar is having hard time thinking of this as roleplaying :)
genesis Zhangsun: perhaps playing the role of being?
Udge Watanabe: oh but it is! quite definitely.
genesis Zhangsun: yes udge explain?
Udge Watanabe: just as RL is too
Udge Watanabe: I am a different person in habits and voice and style, when I am with my sister and her kids, than when I am at work
Udge Watanabe: differnet again in thte bar or the concert hall.
Udge Watanabe: therse are roles I play.
genesis Zhangsun: yes and being?
Gorobei Kaligawa: I understand your point
Gorobei Kaligawa: it could be interesting
genesis Zhangsun: but in some ways isn't being the thing underlying all of those roles/
Gorobei Kaligawa: see what chances you have in life
genesis Zhangsun: oops ?
Udge Watanabe: "being" I tzhink comes into this in the way we come back to "reality" in many of these sessions.
Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
Gorobei Kaligawa: that's the hard part I guess
Udge Watanabe: as a subject for discussion
genesis Zhangsun: would you equate reality with being?
Fael Illyar: Being is hard to talk about :) pretty much anything you can say about it in words is wrong somehow.
genesis Zhangsun: wrong?
Gorobei Kaligawa: peraphs
Udge Watanabe: "limitinig" perhaps rather than wrong?
Gorobei Kaligawa: it depends on the life I guess
Udge Watanabe: the six blind men and hte elephant, and all that :-)
Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
Faenik: why not?
genesis Zhangsun: as you can see Gorobei this is all very much a thing that keep evolving
genesis Zhangsun: and moving
genesis Zhangsun: the practice and how we define it
Fael Illyar: yes, for example, if you say "reality equals Being", you're assuming Being is something that can be defined (or you have redefined reality to point to Being)
genesis Zhangsun: it is an experiment in some sense to ask questions
Udge Watanabe: of ourselves :-)
genesis Zhangsun: yes thank you Udge
Udge Watanabe: and of the world
Gorobei Kaligawa: I think it depends on your perception of reality
genesis Zhangsun: yes?
Gorobei Kaligawa: is this reality?
genesis Zhangsun: Its a good question
Fael Illyar: what is reality?
Gorobei Kaligawa: if it is not, then what is reality?
Udge Watanabe: it is as real to me as many things in socalled real life are.
Gorobei Kaligawa: but you cannot eat here, or drink or touch things (yet?)
Gorobei Kaligawa: Fael Illyar is very quiet, is she meditating?
Fael Illyar: why would those be required for reality?
Gorobei Kaligawa: as a matter of fact I'm becoming hungry
Gorobei Kaligawa: to survive?
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: isn't the reality of SL that you'll survive without those?
Gorobei Kaligawa: maybe here
Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
Gorobei Kaligawa: not in RL
Gorobei Kaligawa: just try it for yourself
Gorobei Kaligawa: can I ask a question?
Fael Illyar: Oh, I'm not claiming you can survive without them in RL :)
Gorobei Kaligawa: do you use first or third view here'
Gorobei Kaligawa: ?
Gorobei Kaligawa: yes
Gorobei Kaligawa: but here we can
Fael Illyar: third
Udge Watanabe: no idea :-) what do you mean?
Fael Illyar: mouselook (first) or not (third)
Gorobei Kaligawa: I think that's the diference
Udge Watanabe: oh, right. Always third, in that case.
Udge Watanabe: hmm, do you not occcasionally observe yourself "from outside" in RL too?
Fael Illyar: I use first rarely.
Gorobei Kaligawa: I think first view gives you a more indeep look on SL
Udge Watanabe: brb
Gorobei Kaligawa: reality is in your mind but hungry is in your stomach I belive
Gorobei Kaligawa: eh eh
Faenik: indeed?
Fael Illyar: These meetings are logged and posted on the wiki later, are you ok with your name being included, Gorobei?
Gorobei Kaligawa: fine with me
Gorobei Kaligawa: but I will be going now
Gorobei Kaligawa: want to look around before dinner
Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
Fael Illyar: Ok, have fun :)
Gorobei Kaligawa: take good care
Gorobei Kaligawa: thanks for the tea
Fael Illyar: we have meetings every day 4 times.
genesis Zhangsun: bye gorbei!
Fael Illyar: 1am,7am,1pm,7pm SLT
genesis Zhangsun: Hey Fael...
genesis Zhangsun: could I ask you a BIG favor?
genesis Zhangsun: I really have to run back to studies now
genesis Zhangsun: would you mind posting the session?
Gorobei Kaligawa: I don't know what's sl time
Gorobei Kaligawa: me?
Fael Illyar: I suppose I could.
genesis Zhangsun: Thank you for last week by the way
Gorobei Kaligawa: what you study?
genesis Zhangsun: law
Fael Illyar: the time that shows on the upper right corner of your SL window.
Fael Illyar: should say 2:09 PM now
genesis Zhangsun: Nice to meet you Udge
genesis Zhangsun: and Gorbei
genesis Zhangsun: I am off now
Fael Illyar: See you again Gen :)
genesis Zhangsun: and thank Fael
genesis Zhangsun: sorry *thanks
genesis Zhangsun: See you later Fael!
Udge Watanabe: back
Fael Illyar: Well, the meeting seems to be mostly over :)
Udge Watanabe: I missed a lot, it gets harder for me to sit still towards night.
Udge Watanabe: today is especially ... irritated.
Gorobei Kaligawa: but it's day outside lol
Udge Watanabe: depends where you are. lol
Fael Illyar: It's midnight in Finland
Gorobei Kaligawa: that's not right
Udge Watanabe: anyway, RL calls. Must get to bed.
Fael Illyar: that's where I'm from
Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
Fael Illyar: See you later Udge :)
Gorobei Kaligawa: finland?
Udge Watanabe: Take care, Fael, nice meeeting you Gorobei
Fael Illyar: Yes, Finland
Gorobei Kaligawa: nice meating
Gorobei Kaligawa: lol
Gorobei Kaligawa: take care
Udge Watanabe: bah
Udge Watanabe: can't TP out
Fael Illyar: Bye Gorobei