2008.07.20 0700 - Giving to the Poor

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    Rajah was the guardian and Adams posted the log. The comments are by Adams

    I arrived at the pavilion and was soon joined by Rajah, Prosper, Doug and Pia

    Adams Rubble: Hi Rajah. I am so very glad to see you this morning :)
    Rajah Yalin: hi Adams
    Rajah Yalin: good to see you too :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Prosper :)
    Prosper Telling: Hi
    Rajah Yalin: hi Prosper
    Rajah Yalin: hi Doug
    Adams Rubble: Hi Doug :)
    doug Sosa: hi!
    Rajah Yalin: is greeting still awkard Doug?
    Rajah Yalin: hi Pia
    Adams Rubble: Hi Pia :)
    Prosper Telling: hi
    Pia Iger: Hello, there
    doug Sosa: the light here exactly matches where i am in rl.
    Prosper Telling: Hi Pia
    doug Sosa: hi.
    Rajah Yalin: I set mine to match

    Fael arrives next and make amends for interruptions and mistatements

    Adams Rubble: Pia, I am sorry I broke up your discussion last night. I was so confident I had an insight, I didn't expect discussion
    Adams Rubble: Hi fael :)
    Pia Iger: That is fine. good for me to listen too.
    Rajah Yalin: hi Fael
    Rajah Yalin: what was the discussion?
    Prosper Telling: morning
    Fael Illyar: Hi everyone :)
    Adams Rubble: Ah, Stim and Pia were getting ready to discuss empathy and I made a comment about Bertrum's and Pema's discussion about Faith
    Faenik: could be
    Adams Rubble: It started an intense discussion about why I was wrong :)
    Rajah Yalin: intense eh?
    Adams Rubble: maybe long :)
    Adams Rubble: involved
    Prosper Telling: Those can always be humbling and a bit of an eye opener...
    Adams Rubble: yes, it was a good lesson for me
    Fael Illyar: Oh, I guess I should read that one :)
    Fael Illyar: last 1pm?
    Adams Rubble: Fael, I have a comment for you too
    Fael Illyar: umm 7pm
    Prosper Telling: I think I need to too
    Adams Rubble: yes Fael
    Adams Rubble: The other night Fael and Pema were discussing me
    Pia Iger: Rajah, I do have a topic to talk now, if you are ok.
    Adams Rubble: and you misunderstood a statement that I didn't say correctly
    Rajah Yalin: sure
    Adams Rubble: if that makes sense
    Adams Rubble: When I said we were moving in different drections
    Adams Rubble: I was talking about following different paths
    Fael Illyar: Well, a miscommunication more than misunderstanding but :)

    Fael and I discuss our paths

    Adams Rubble: we both want the same thing
    Adams Rubble: we need to take a different route
    Faenik: ah :)
    Adams Rubble: yours seems to be resulting in faster results
    Adams Rubble: and I am genuinely glad for you
    Adams Rubble: but mine is being fruitful too
    Fael Illyar: I think I've just been walking the path for longer.
    Fael Illyar: but in slightly wrong ways before PaB
    Adams Rubble: I've been stuck at a place for a long, long time
    Adams Rubble: I am just about to break out of it I think
    Adams Rubble: It is in today's blog
    Rajah Yalin: what are you "stuck" at?
    Adams Rubble: and my RL person has showing me lots of love too :)
    Adams Rubble: Rajah, I gave up Christianity a long, long time ago
    Adams Rubble: and have been busy with life
    Adams Rubble: I have made a few half-hearted attempts
    Adams Rubble: but nothing serious until now
    Adams Rubble: I have had a good life, a job I love, four wonderfiul sons and daughters
    Adams Rubble: it's time to break out of it
    Adams Rubble: of the stuckness, not the life :)
    Rajah Yalin: lol
    Prosper Telling: : )
    Rajah Yalin: not laughing at you, I just thought the way you said that was humourous :)
    Adams Rubble: I know Rajah :)
    Fael Illyar: oh, 7pm log is not yet up.

    Rajah introduces a story and theme

    Rajah Yalin: a friend of mine
    Rajah Yalin: and you just kind of reminded me in a way, but he used to be a well known Presbyterian minister here in Port Vila.. and all of a sudden one day he has this "spiritual awakening", and here he is 25 years old, he gives away 90% of his money and things, shuts off his modern lifestyle for a while
    Rajah Yalin: everyone thought Zane was crazy, he's been institutionalised, sent to Australia, all sorts of things because of these beliefs
    Rajah Yalin: and maybe this has nothing to do with anything, or everything to do with nothing
    Rajah Yalin: however you want to look at it
    Prosper Telling: Have you seen the movie Into the Wild? It's about Chris McCandless who did something similar
    Pia Iger: heard about it.
    Prosper Telling: (Hope I got his name right)
    Adams Rubble: Were the results different, Prosper?
    Pia Iger: but he died in Alaska, sad.
    Prosper Telling: There seems to be the need for balance... and that is not as easy to strike as it sounds.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Pia Iger: balance, yes.
    Prosper Telling: Even the Buddha nearly died, of starvation no less.
    Rajah Yalin: society and self?
    Adams Rubble is thinking of Saint Martin
    Prosper Telling: Bad Catholic here... Saint who?
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: He was a rich person who gave everyhting he had to the poor
    Prosper Telling: Kewl
    Adams Rubble: Yes Rajah...society andf self
    Adams Rubble: The choice might not be incoreect for the individual but society makes a judgment
    Rajah Yalin: I don't think Brada (or "Brother", as it means in Bislama) had enough weight on society so he's seen as a bit of a 'nut' now
    Rajah Yalin: he renamed himself and it was all in the course of one night
    Adams Rubble: wow
    Adams Rubble: sad story
    Faenik: indeed?
    Tea Cup whispers: Tea Time!
    Rajah Yalin: but things he says do make a lot of sense
    Fael Illyar: It just occurred to me that just giving your things away to the poor might not be the best way to go about it. Unless you primarily just care about getting rid of it.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: In the case of saints, it is a bit of a metaphor
    Fael Illyar: Most of the poor are poor not because they have nothing but because they lack the ability to keep them.
    Prosper Telling: I was trying to articulate similar thoughts... thanks... Yeah, that whole teach a man to fish thing.
    Adams Rubble: but the story is about the saint, not the poor
    Adams Rubble: hagiography
    Adams Rubble: So someone sees this as a value

    Then Ryusho joined us and the talk turned to outfits

    Rajah Yalin: hi Ryusho
    Adams Rubble: Hi Ryusho
    Fael Illyar: Hi ryusho
    ryusho Ort: hi : ) am i interrupting?
    Adams Rubble: Nope
    Rajah Yalin: no, come in
    Pia Iger: Welcome, Ryusho,
    ryusho Ort: namaste
    Prosper Telling: Not at all
    Rajah Yalin: Namaste
    Adams Rubble: Please join us
    Pia Iger: nice robe,
    ryusho Ort: thank you....
    Rajah Yalin: actually I'm wearing a ryusosha outfit
    Adams Rubble: Wonderful clothes!
    ryusho Ort: : )) veru interesting with the shades......
    Rajah Yalin: and the hemp necklace ;P
    ryusho Ort: is very enjoyable to see what and how people modify them... :))
    Pia Iger: you are all dressed up, Rajah:)
    Fael Illyar is wondering why it looks like there is a sun in middle of the pavilion.

    A light in the middle of the pavilion seems to come up again and again in log; Ryusho brings us back to theme

    Rajah Yalin: I guess that is how I differ in SL and RL
    ryusho Ort: what were you guys discussing before i came?
    Rajah Yalin: something about giving to the poor I think
    ryusho Ort: ic ic ........ much debated subject through history
    Adams Rubble is trying to say that society thinks this pooor man is crazy (which he may be) but it goes against the lessens the various religions teach about giving up everything and living a simple life
    Rajah Yalin: he might be crazy Adams, but we might be mad too
    Adams Rubble: Some people think that about me :)
    Fael Illyar: Yes, I was saying that if you just give your wealth to the poor, you help them through a short while. To really help them, you'd need to help them help themselves.

    Yes, Fael. We all ignored your comment but it is correct; but was Brada crazy or not?

    Rajah Yalin: and I don't quite see how Brada just dropped it all one night as he did
    Adams Rubble: The results were not good for Brada
    Adams Rubble: unlike what the religions teach
    Rajah Yalin: hes very reclusive nowadays
    Rajah Yalin: it's been about 15 years
    Adams Rubble: wow
    Pia Iger: even he was doing the right thing, he need to concern how sociaty will treat him.
    Adams Rubble: In an institution Rajah?
    Faenik: なるほど^^
    Rajah Yalin: he's been in and out of institutions and gaol
    Adams Rubble: jail too !!?!
    Adams Rubble: for giving things away?
    Rajah Yalin: he was sent to gaol for trespassing
    Adams Rubble: oh my
    Pia Iger: he was not cautious enough to protect his basic wellings.
    Pia Iger: wellbeings
    Rajah Yalin: he was meditating in a 'dangerous place'
    Prosper Telling: Good way of putting it.
    Prosper Telling: Was this in Australia?
    Rajah Yalin: when he questioned it they sent him to gaol.. at the time he was a bit "fight the power", now hes a bit "let the fighter fight me"
    Rajah Yalin: it was here in Vanuatu
    Rajah Yalin: there are spots in the rainforest it is not legal to be on my island
    Prosper Telling: Ah, that helps
    Fael Illyar: what sort of spots?
    Rajah Yalin: he went to those because no one bothered him there but was arrested
    Rajah Yalin: they are fenced off areas that are deep in the rainforest
    Rajah Yalin: actually it might have been a place they turned into a tourist place, I'm not too sure I don't go there
    Rajah Yalin: thanks ryu
    ryusho Ort: a little addition to the present outfit.
    Rajah Yalin: nice
    Adams Rubble: There seems to be a diiference here between doing something society doesn't undertsand and actually sticking one's finger in the eye of society

    Rajah notes that despite what he went through, Brada seems to have found peace

    Rajah Yalin: it is quite strange though, even through what he's gone through he seems like the happiest person alive
    Pia Iger: I can imagine that.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: Then he found what he was looking for :)
    Rajah Yalin: (a study found that Vanuatu, where I live, is the happiest nation in the world, so maybe that is saying a lot :P)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Good place to stay then, Rajah
    Rajah Yalin: yes I love it

    and then to cultural unhappiness

    Pia Iger: I think many time unhappiness is taught to us
    Pia Iger: we are culturely told we don't have enough
    Adams Rubble: yes Pia
    Adams Rubble: all the time
    ryusho Ort: i cannot agree with pia more, happiness and unhappiness all taught
    Rajah Yalin: people who teach happiness I've noted seem to be unhappy themselves
    Adams Rubble: I don't think it is ALL taught. Some we find ourselves I think
    Pia Iger: oh, Rajah?
    Fael Illyar: Yes, taught, I've been wondering what it was that made me reject a lot of that years ago.
    ryusho Ort: phsical maybe.....mental conditioning is in all societies
    Pia Iger: because Fael, you don't lie to yourself.
    Fael Illyar: ah, just that decision?
    Adams Rubble: Certainly materialism comes from society
    Fael Illyar: could be I suppose :)
    Adams Rubble: some of our other desires come from ourselves
    Pia Iger: if you are honest to yourself, you can see what the society says is not true.
    Rajah Yalin: you are molded by your experiences
    ryusho Ort: expereinces come from society
    ryusho Ort: so society "teaches" in this way
    Rajah Yalin: or lack of society
    Adams Rubble: It is possible that you and I are talking aboyut the same thing Ryusho

    Prosper Arrived Next

    Rajah Yalin: wb Prosper
    Prosper Telling: Yeah, crashed.
    Adams Rubble: We have desires that start out meeting our physical needs
    Prosper Telling: I'll be back
    Adams Rubble: some of the ways we meet them are influenced by society
    Adams Rubble: but we still make choices along the way
    Adams Rubble: and we may have more or less desire eminating from those needs than society tells us to
    ryusho Ort: i dont think we do because these decision are based on our experience and these in turn come from society

    I try to argue that all unhappiness is not cultural but run out of arguments and the discussion turns to conversation

    Adams Rubble: hmmm
    Adams Rubble: I think I respectfully disagree but I have to think about it more
    ryusho Ort: : )
    Fael Illyar is wondering if she found a way to crash the viewer by pressing a certain key combination.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Rajah Yalin: see that is why I don't go too far into deep discussion, Adams, I don't think quick enough :P
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar: Adams, my approach would be to refrain from agreement or disagreement until thinking more :P
    Rajah Yalin: I feel like it might be ego, I don't want to look wrong but I don't want to put how I think wrong either
    ryusho Ort: lest just say discussion is for releasing the compulsion to speak.... : P
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Rajah Yalin: yes thats why sometimes I say things that have nothing to do with the conversation
    ryusho Ort: most of the time , in fact all i think comes to no definite conclusion or agreement, or the world be one! no?
    Pia Iger: the important for me is to honestly say/share what we think.
    Pia Iger: as compare notes.
    Faenik: why not?
    ryusho Ort: for me is just a compulsion, whethere we really accept or be convinced by these new ideas we hear really again is dependant on our past experiences

    Moon joined us inspiring more discussion about costume

    Rajah Yalin: hi Moon
    ryusho Ort: igf the soil is not there, the seeds wont grow
    Moon Fargis: hi all
    Anime Emoticon V2.8: Confused
    ryusho Ort: hi moon
    Pia Iger: yes, the result cannot be seen here right away.
    Pia Iger: Hi, Moon.
    Adams Rubble: Just want to say that I was arguing a point and that Ryusho has raised a point that contradicts it. The wise thing to do is to allow myself time to consider that poiint rather than going on
    Fael Illyar: Hi Moon :)
    Adams Rubble: Hi Moon
    ryusho Ort: another distortion to the robes.
    ryusho Ort: : ))))haha
    Moon Fargis stares at rajahs ultracool hat
    Rajah Yalin: :P
    Rajah Yalin stares at Moons spinning thing.
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Moon Fargis: you get tired....
    Moon Fargis: verry tired
    Moon Fargis: aaannd sleep
    ryusho Ort: why not conbine the spinning thing with the hat??
    Pia Iger: Pia miss Moon's kitty dance.
    Rajah Yalin: I think I have to be behind you for the hypnosis to work
    Adams Rubble: A spinning hat
    Pia Iger: hahaa
    Rajah Yalin: theres an idea
    ryusho Ort: you buy it for l $100? i will make haha...
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    kara tengai whispers: Edit mode. Change the light color and touch me to change the particle color.
    Adams Rubble: It is time to go to the Hall of Appearances?
    Moon Fargis: my freinds
    Moon Fargis: its nearly 8
    Moon Fargis: yes:)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pia Iger: yes. Adams, did you get Gaya's log?

    Maxine arrives and we all depart for the Hall of Appearances (with Maxine)

    Rajah Yalin: ah yep
    Adams Rubble: no
    Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
    Rajah Yalin: hi Max
    Rajah Yalin: ine
    ryusho Ort: i will see you guys.......
    ryusho Ort: take care.
    Rajah Yalin: Namaste
    Moon Fargis: see you later ryu
    Adams Rubble: bye Ryusho :)
    Pia Iger: see you, Ryu
    Rajah Yalin: take care
    ryusho Ort: namaste
    Maxine Walden: hi, all, bye all

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