2008.07.20 0700 - Giving to the Poor

Rajah was the guardian and Adams posted the log. The comments are by Adams

I arrived at the pavilion and was soon joined by Rajah, Prosper, Doug and Pia

Adams Rubble: Hi Rajah. I am so very glad to see you this morning :)
Rajah Yalin: hi Adams
Rajah Yalin: good to see you too :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Prosper :)
Prosper Telling: Hi
Rajah Yalin: hi Prosper
Rajah Yalin: hi Doug
Adams Rubble: Hi Doug :)
doug Sosa: hi!
Rajah Yalin: is greeting still awkard Doug?
Rajah Yalin: hi Pia
Adams Rubble: Hi Pia :)
Prosper Telling: hi
Pia Iger: Hello, there
doug Sosa: the light here exactly matches where i am in rl.
Prosper Telling: Hi Pia
doug Sosa: hi.
Rajah Yalin: I set mine to match

Fael arrives next and make amends for interruptions and mistatements

Adams Rubble: Pia, I am sorry I broke up your discussion last night. I was so confident I had an insight, I didn't expect discussion
Adams Rubble: Hi fael :)
Pia Iger: That is fine. good for me to listen too.
Rajah Yalin: hi Fael
Rajah Yalin: what was the discussion?
Prosper Telling: morning
Fael Illyar: Hi everyone :)
Adams Rubble: Ah, Stim and Pia were getting ready to discuss empathy and I made a comment about Bertrum's and Pema's discussion about Faith
Faenik: could be
Adams Rubble: It started an intense discussion about why I was wrong :)
Rajah Yalin: intense eh?
Adams Rubble: maybe long :)
Adams Rubble: involved
Prosper Telling: Those can always be humbling and a bit of an eye opener...
Adams Rubble: yes, it was a good lesson for me
Fael Illyar: Oh, I guess I should read that one :)
Fael Illyar: last 1pm?
Adams Rubble: Fael, I have a comment for you too
Fael Illyar: umm 7pm
Prosper Telling: I think I need to too
Adams Rubble: yes Fael
Adams Rubble: The other night Fael and Pema were discussing me
Pia Iger: Rajah, I do have a topic to talk now, if you are ok.
Adams Rubble: and you misunderstood a statement that I didn't say correctly
Rajah Yalin: sure
Adams Rubble: if that makes sense
Adams Rubble: When I said we were moving in different drections
Adams Rubble: I was talking about following different paths
Fael Illyar: Well, a miscommunication more than misunderstanding but :)

Fael and I discuss our paths

Adams Rubble: we both want the same thing
Adams Rubble: we need to take a different route
Faenik: ah :)
Adams Rubble: yours seems to be resulting in faster results
Adams Rubble: and I am genuinely glad for you
Adams Rubble: but mine is being fruitful too
Fael Illyar: I think I've just been walking the path for longer.
Fael Illyar: but in slightly wrong ways before PaB
Adams Rubble: I've been stuck at a place for a long, long time
Adams Rubble: I am just about to break out of it I think
Adams Rubble: It is in today's blog
Rajah Yalin: what are you "stuck" at?
Adams Rubble: and my RL person has showing me lots of love too :)
Adams Rubble: Rajah, I gave up Christianity a long, long time ago
Adams Rubble: and have been busy with life
Adams Rubble: I have made a few half-hearted attempts
Adams Rubble: but nothing serious until now
Adams Rubble: I have had a good life, a job I love, four wonderfiul sons and daughters
Adams Rubble: it's time to break out of it
Adams Rubble: of the stuckness, not the life :)
Rajah Yalin: lol
Prosper Telling: : )
Rajah Yalin: not laughing at you, I just thought the way you said that was humourous :)
Adams Rubble: I know Rajah :)
Fael Illyar: oh, 7pm log is not yet up.

Rajah introduces a story and theme

Rajah Yalin: a friend of mine
Rajah Yalin: and you just kind of reminded me in a way, but he used to be a well known Presbyterian minister here in Port Vila.. and all of a sudden one day he has this "spiritual awakening", and here he is 25 years old, he gives away 90% of his money and things, shuts off his modern lifestyle for a while
Rajah Yalin: everyone thought Zane was crazy, he's been institutionalised, sent to Australia, all sorts of things because of these beliefs
Rajah Yalin: and maybe this has nothing to do with anything, or everything to do with nothing
Rajah Yalin: however you want to look at it
Prosper Telling: Have you seen the movie Into the Wild? It's about Chris McCandless who did something similar
Pia Iger: heard about it.
Prosper Telling: (Hope I got his name right)
Adams Rubble: Were the results different, Prosper?
Pia Iger: but he died in Alaska, sad.
Prosper Telling: There seems to be the need for balance... and that is not as easy to strike as it sounds.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pia Iger: balance, yes.
Prosper Telling: Even the Buddha nearly died, of starvation no less.
Rajah Yalin: society and self?
Adams Rubble is thinking of Saint Martin
Prosper Telling: Bad Catholic here... Saint who?
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: He was a rich person who gave everyhting he had to the poor
Prosper Telling: Kewl
Adams Rubble: Yes Rajah...society andf self
Adams Rubble: The choice might not be incoreect for the individual but society makes a judgment
Rajah Yalin: I don't think Brada (or "Brother", as it means in Bislama) had enough weight on society so he's seen as a bit of a 'nut' now
Rajah Yalin: he renamed himself and it was all in the course of one night
Adams Rubble: wow
Adams Rubble: sad story
Faenik: indeed?
Tea Cup whispers: Tea Time!
Rajah Yalin: but things he says do make a lot of sense
Fael Illyar: It just occurred to me that just giving your things away to the poor might not be the best way to go about it. Unless you primarily just care about getting rid of it.
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: In the case of saints, it is a bit of a metaphor
Fael Illyar: Most of the poor are poor not because they have nothing but because they lack the ability to keep them.
Prosper Telling: I was trying to articulate similar thoughts... thanks... Yeah, that whole teach a man to fish thing.
Adams Rubble: but the story is about the saint, not the poor
Adams Rubble: hagiography
Adams Rubble: So someone sees this as a value

Then Ryusho joined us and the talk turned to outfits

Rajah Yalin: hi Ryusho
Adams Rubble: Hi Ryusho
Fael Illyar: Hi ryusho
ryusho Ort: hi : ) am i interrupting?
Adams Rubble: Nope
Rajah Yalin: no, come in
Pia Iger: Welcome, Ryusho,
ryusho Ort: namaste
Prosper Telling: Not at all
Rajah Yalin: Namaste
Adams Rubble: Please join us
Pia Iger: nice robe,
ryusho Ort: thank you....
Rajah Yalin: actually I'm wearing a ryusosha outfit
Adams Rubble: Wonderful clothes!
ryusho Ort: : )) veru interesting with the shades......
Rajah Yalin: and the hemp necklace ;P
ryusho Ort: is very enjoyable to see what and how people modify them... :))
Pia Iger: you are all dressed up, Rajah:)
Fael Illyar is wondering why it looks like there is a sun in middle of the pavilion.

A light in the middle of the pavilion seems to come up again and again in log; Ryusho brings us back to theme

Rajah Yalin: I guess that is how I differ in SL and RL
ryusho Ort: what were you guys discussing before i came?
Rajah Yalin: something about giving to the poor I think
ryusho Ort: ic ic ........ much debated subject through history
Adams Rubble is trying to say that society thinks this pooor man is crazy (which he may be) but it goes against the lessens the various religions teach about giving up everything and living a simple life
Rajah Yalin: he might be crazy Adams, but we might be mad too
Adams Rubble: Some people think that about me :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, I was saying that if you just give your wealth to the poor, you help them through a short while. To really help them, you'd need to help them help themselves.

Yes, Fael. We all ignored your comment but it is correct; but was Brada crazy or not?

Rajah Yalin: and I don't quite see how Brada just dropped it all one night as he did
Adams Rubble: The results were not good for Brada
Adams Rubble: unlike what the religions teach
Rajah Yalin: hes very reclusive nowadays
Rajah Yalin: it's been about 15 years
Adams Rubble: wow
Pia Iger: even he was doing the right thing, he need to concern how sociaty will treat him.
Adams Rubble: In an institution Rajah?
Faenik: なるほど^^
Rajah Yalin: he's been in and out of institutions and gaol
Adams Rubble: jail too !!?!
Adams Rubble: for giving things away?
Rajah Yalin: he was sent to gaol for trespassing
Adams Rubble: oh my
Pia Iger: he was not cautious enough to protect his basic wellings.
Pia Iger: wellbeings
Rajah Yalin: he was meditating in a 'dangerous place'
Prosper Telling: Good way of putting it.
Prosper Telling: Was this in Australia?
Rajah Yalin: when he questioned it they sent him to gaol.. at the time he was a bit "fight the power", now hes a bit "let the fighter fight me"
Rajah Yalin: it was here in Vanuatu
Rajah Yalin: there are spots in the rainforest it is not legal to be on my island
Prosper Telling: Ah, that helps
Fael Illyar: what sort of spots?
Rajah Yalin: he went to those because no one bothered him there but was arrested
Rajah Yalin: they are fenced off areas that are deep in the rainforest
Rajah Yalin: actually it might have been a place they turned into a tourist place, I'm not too sure I don't go there
Rajah Yalin: thanks ryu
ryusho Ort: a little addition to the present outfit.
Rajah Yalin: nice
Adams Rubble: There seems to be a diiference here between doing something society doesn't undertsand and actually sticking one's finger in the eye of society

Rajah notes that despite what he went through, Brada seems to have found peace

Rajah Yalin: it is quite strange though, even through what he's gone through he seems like the happiest person alive
Pia Iger: I can imagine that.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Adams Rubble: Then he found what he was looking for :)
Rajah Yalin: (a study found that Vanuatu, where I live, is the happiest nation in the world, so maybe that is saying a lot :P)
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Good place to stay then, Rajah
Rajah Yalin: yes I love it

and then to cultural unhappiness

Pia Iger: I think many time unhappiness is taught to us
Pia Iger: we are culturely told we don't have enough
Adams Rubble: yes Pia
Adams Rubble: all the time
ryusho Ort: i cannot agree with pia more, happiness and unhappiness all taught
Rajah Yalin: people who teach happiness I've noted seem to be unhappy themselves
Adams Rubble: I don't think it is ALL taught. Some we find ourselves I think
Pia Iger: oh, Rajah?
Fael Illyar: Yes, taught, I've been wondering what it was that made me reject a lot of that years ago.
ryusho Ort: phsical maybe.....mental conditioning is in all societies
Pia Iger: because Fael, you don't lie to yourself.
Fael Illyar: ah, just that decision?
Adams Rubble: Certainly materialism comes from society
Fael Illyar: could be I suppose :)
Adams Rubble: some of our other desires come from ourselves
Pia Iger: if you are honest to yourself, you can see what the society says is not true.
Rajah Yalin: you are molded by your experiences
ryusho Ort: expereinces come from society
ryusho Ort: so society "teaches" in this way
Rajah Yalin: or lack of society
Adams Rubble: It is possible that you and I are talking aboyut the same thing Ryusho

Prosper Arrived Next

Rajah Yalin: wb Prosper
Prosper Telling: Yeah, crashed.
Adams Rubble: We have desires that start out meeting our physical needs
Prosper Telling: I'll be back
Adams Rubble: some of the ways we meet them are influenced by society
Adams Rubble: but we still make choices along the way
Adams Rubble: and we may have more or less desire eminating from those needs than society tells us to
ryusho Ort: i dont think we do because these decision are based on our experience and these in turn come from society

I try to argue that all unhappiness is not cultural but run out of arguments and the discussion turns to conversation

Adams Rubble: hmmm
Adams Rubble: I think I respectfully disagree but I have to think about it more
ryusho Ort: : )
Fael Illyar is wondering if she found a way to crash the viewer by pressing a certain key combination.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Rajah Yalin: see that is why I don't go too far into deep discussion, Adams, I don't think quick enough :P
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: Adams, my approach would be to refrain from agreement or disagreement until thinking more :P
Rajah Yalin: I feel like it might be ego, I don't want to look wrong but I don't want to put how I think wrong either
ryusho Ort: lest just say discussion is for releasing the compulsion to speak.... : P
Fael Illyar: :)
Rajah Yalin: yes thats why sometimes I say things that have nothing to do with the conversation
ryusho Ort: most of the time , in fact all i think comes to no definite conclusion or agreement, or the world be one! no?
Pia Iger: the important for me is to honestly say/share what we think.
Pia Iger: as compare notes.
Faenik: why not?
ryusho Ort: for me is just a compulsion, whethere we really accept or be convinced by these new ideas we hear really again is dependant on our past experiences

Moon joined us inspiring more discussion about costume

Rajah Yalin: hi Moon
ryusho Ort: igf the soil is not there, the seeds wont grow
Moon Fargis: hi all
Anime Emoticon V2.8: Confused
ryusho Ort: hi moon
Pia Iger: yes, the result cannot be seen here right away.
Pia Iger: Hi, Moon.
Adams Rubble: Just want to say that I was arguing a point and that Ryusho has raised a point that contradicts it. The wise thing to do is to allow myself time to consider that poiint rather than going on
Fael Illyar: Hi Moon :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Moon
ryusho Ort: another distortion to the robes.
ryusho Ort: : ))))haha
Moon Fargis stares at rajahs ultracool hat
Rajah Yalin: :P
Rajah Yalin stares at Moons spinning thing.
Adams Rubble: :)
Moon Fargis: you get tired....
Moon Fargis: verry tired
Moon Fargis: aaannd sleep
ryusho Ort: why not conbine the spinning thing with the hat??
Pia Iger: Pia miss Moon's kitty dance.
Rajah Yalin: I think I have to be behind you for the hypnosis to work
Adams Rubble: A spinning hat
Pia Iger: hahaa
Rajah Yalin: theres an idea
ryusho Ort: you buy it for l $100? i will make haha...
Adams Rubble: hehe
kara tengai whispers: Edit mode. Change the light color and touch me to change the particle color.
Adams Rubble: It is time to go to the Hall of Appearances?
Moon Fargis: my freinds
Moon Fargis: its nearly 8
Moon Fargis: yes:)
Adams Rubble: :)
Pia Iger: yes. Adams, did you get Gaya's log?

Maxine arrives and we all depart for the Hall of Appearances (with Maxine)

Rajah Yalin: ah yep
Adams Rubble: no
Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
Rajah Yalin: hi Max
Rajah Yalin: ine
ryusho Ort: i will see you guys.......
ryusho Ort: take care.
Rajah Yalin: Namaste
Moon Fargis: see you later ryu
Adams Rubble: bye Ryusho :)
Pia Iger: see you, Ryu
Rajah Yalin: take care
ryusho Ort: namaste
Maxine Walden: hi, all, bye all