Pema Pera: Hi Jonni!
Pema Pera: Nice to meet you
jonni Thor: namasta pema
jonni Thor: good to met u too
jonni Thor: tea ?
Pema Pera: sure :)
jonni Thor gave you green tea Bizen.
green tea Bizen whispers: Thank you
Pema Pera: ty!
jonni Thor: yw
Pema Pera: Have you been here before?
jonni Thor: yeah its one of my regular places
jonni Thor: sorry i gotta go my pager just went off
Pema Pera: We get together here four times a day; background is on http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
Pema Pera: sure, take your time
jonni Thor: sorry about that someone else is taking it so thats cool
Pema Pera: np!
jonni Thor: what happens when you get together here is it for meeting ? discussion ?
Pema Pera: in RL we have a very simple short practice, 9 seconds every 15 minutes, so four times an hour
Pema Pera: and four times a day we get together in SL to talk about it
jonni Thor: meditation practice
Pema Pera: sort-of yeah
jonni Thor: sounds intersting
Pema Pera: but could be seen more general too
Pema Pera: normally, when people do meditation
Pema Pera: they spend a few years getting really into it
Pema Pera: hi Steve!
Pema Pera: and then they face the challenge to integrate it into their lives
Pema Pera: hi Stim!
Stim Morane: Hi Pema!
Pema Pera: Here we do it the other way around:
Steve and Stim joined us.
Stim Morane: Sorry I’m late, I’m in the midst of a medical emergency here.
Pema Pera: we start with integration even before really getting deeply into what you could call meditation
Pema Pera: oh, sorry to hear that Stim
Pema Pera: I can take care of the session
Stim Morane: I can’t stay, could you or Steven do the honors
Pema Pera: no reason for you to stay
Pema Pera: yes, will do
jonni Thor: the goal of meditation is to bring about that awarenes sure ive been meditating for over 20years
Stim Morane: OK, thanks, I have to get back to the phone.
Pema Pera: good luck, Stim!
stevenaia Michinaga: finally I arrived, hello
Pema Pera: Hi again, Steve!
jonni Thor: namaste
Pema Pera: In your approach, Jonni, how do you go about integration into daily life of what you learn?
Pema Pera: Steve, did I trigger the “classic look” with my email :) ?
I was refering to an email exchange in which Steve had volunteered to be the subject of Syl’s movie about an avatar doing the 9-sec practice, upon which I had asked whether Steve would come in his classic yellow-with-suspenders look; indeed, for the first time since a while he now looked like his old self.
jonni Thor: i suppose its mostly about focus about realising that all there is is that moment so bringing your awareness to that moment
jonni Thor: be it washing the car
stevenaia Michinaga: it was perfect, thank you
jonni Thor: the dishes or at work
Pema Pera: yes, indeed!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Jonni
Pema Pera: Hi Sky!
jonni Thor: hi there stevenaia
jonni Thor: namaste sky
stevenaia Michinaga: scanning the log before I materialized, did you want me to sent it to you pema?
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Sky
Pema Pera: Question is: how to be mindful of what you just described, moment by moment — I myself found that very difficult at first, frankly, I still find it difficult, seeing so many ways to improve, second by second . . . .
Sky Szimmer: hi there everyone
Pema Pera: Sorry, Steve, which log? today? Ah, no, I’ll take care of it, now that Stim is gone — thanks for the offer!
stevenaia Michinaga: oh great
Pema Pera: good to see you again, Sky!
Sky Szimmer: likewise Pema!
Pema Pera: On the one hand, I see that I have learned to become more and more mindful — but that implies too that I now see much more clearly how unmindful I often was and still am . . . the more I learn to more I see my imperfections and how much more I can learn . . .
Pema Pera: so that pushed me to become more radical
Pema Pera: to really focus on it throughout the whole day
Pema Pera: relentlessly so
Pema Pera: that was how the 9-sec practice was born
Pema Pera: four times an hour
Pema Pera: instead of just once or twice a days doing a sitting period
Pema Pera: but the two can be combined
Pema Pera: that would be the most powerful combination
Pema Pera: longer sitting sessions with frequent short reminders
jonni Thor: thats happes in many zen traditons
Sky Szimmer: does it take moment by moment seeing?
Pema Pera: that’s they ideal, yes, Sky
Pema Pera: And yes, Jonni, the idea of zen too, for sure
Pema Pera: or any deep practice
Sky refered back to the previous session, with Avastu.
Sky Szimmer: i hope it is ok with everyone but I like to ask a question or two more which stem from earlier this afternoon’s conversation withh Avastu
stevenaia Michinaga: it was a wonderful session Sky
Sky Szimmer: oh good. i got a bit worried that I may have dominated the conversation too much
jonni Thor: i stayed in a zen monestry on retreat for like 3 months or so and thats tehr daily practice im not zen so was there as a guest buts they try ad bring their sits into dily wok ing life
Sky Szimmer: my question relates to the tendency for me to feel like i deliberated something which action followed
Sky Szimmer: then i feel like it is I who did something
Sky Szimmer: which leads to the feeling on there is a solid self
Pema Pera: yes, Jonni, that must have been a very powerful thing, 3 monhts! And then the challenge is to preserve and further cultivate that afterwards in daily life — not easy to follow up — but let’s switch to Sky for now — sorry Sky
Sky Szimmer: oh no.. sorry Jonni.
green tea Bizen whispers: Thank you
Pema Pera: np Sky!
Pema Pera: we can get back to the other strand later
Pema Pera: so solid self sense?
Sky Szimmer: anyhow, so it is easy to feel like I made a decision which leads to an action
Sky Szimmer: although, in fact, there is no actor
Sky Szimmer: can you clarify those thoughts a bit Pema
Pema Pera: like a movie: it seems there is all kind of stuff there
Pema Pera: but it’s only light
Pema Pera: but not random light
Pema Pera: still very meaningful
Pema Pera: so we can have our cake and eat it
Pema Pera: enjoy the meaning
Pema Pera: but not bound by what happens
Pema Pera: isn’t that nice?
Pema Pera: life becomes free, light in two ways :)
Sky Szimmer: yes that is nice but not too helpful i am afraid
Sky Szimmer: it doesn’t take care of the feeling that I am the actor
Pema Pera: so you have to look at that feeling
Pema Pera: really look at it
Pema Pera: ideally each moment
Pema Pera: but even four times an hour, when you really sustain that, will do wonders — literally
Only later would I read the chat log, realizing how close it was, what I said here and what Avastu had said six hours earlier.
Sky Szimmer: i see that I am still clinging to an I because of that feeling
Sky Szimmer: i see that there is no “I” but still, when there is still the feeling that I made a decision, and then an action followed
Sky Szimmer: I need help to see this more clearly
Pema Pera: the better you see the feeling
Pema Pera: and everything else
Pema Pera: the easier it will be to see that there is no I
Pema Pera: not only as an idea or intuition but as something that you see clearly
Pema Pera: but generally this is a process of maturation
Pema Pera: though sometimes there can be a sudden breakthrough
Pema Pera: just continue!
Pema Pera: is the main advice
Pema Pera: just continue!
Sky Szimmer: thanks. Pema. After my conversation with Avastu, I saw that there was still much clinging to a “self” though, I see that there is not
As soon as Sky had referred back to talking with Avastu earlier, I sent him an IM and offered to tp him over. After a few minutes, he kindly joined us.
Pema Pera: Hi Avastu!
Avastu Maruti: hello my friends
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Avastu
Pema Pera: Sky was just talking about talking with you before, Avastu :-)
Sky Szimmer: the hitch being that when action taken, “I” come into being
Avastu Maruti: but do you really?
Sky Szimmer: what. the “I” ?
Avastu Maruti: does the “I” really come into being?
Sky Szimmer: yes and no. “I” becomes concretized so in that way yes.
Sky Szimmer: though, reality no.
Avastu Maruti: when the “I AM” comes, all else is assumed
Sky Szimmer: what do you mean all else is assume?
Avastu Maruti: this is the creation of duality, of subject and object
Sky Szimmer: oh.
Avastu Maruti: even the I AM is an assumption
Avastu Maruti: what IS, NOW - that never requires any assumption?
Sky Szimmer: so how do I see more clearly that there is no one taking action.
Avastu Maruti: yes, this it the “problem”, isn’t it?
Avastu Maruti: how do “I” see that there is no “I”?
Nice way to distill the problem into a single question.
Pema Pera: :)
stevenaia Michinaga: …smile
Pema Pera: touche
Sky Szimmer: well. yes. indeed.
Avastu Maruti: simply stop and look, now
Avastu Maruti: is there any solid and persistent entity doing anything?
Avastu Maruti: seeing/knowing is happening
Avastu Maruti: birds, bells
Avastu Maruti: the mind creates the “I”
Avastu Maruti: thought…
Avastu Maruti: passing clouds
Avastu Maruti: you are the vast and infinite sky of awareness in which all this passes
Avastu Maruti: then the idea comes that there is an “I” that needs to look
Avastu Maruti: and this very creation of an the idea of an “I” itself is suffering
Avastu Maruti: violence
Avastu Maruti: war
Avastu Maruti: being is never hidden
Sky Szimmer: yes. my mind is very tricky.
Avastu Maruti: it is seemingly obscured to a “seeker” simply because it is ALREADY everything
Avastu Maruti: looking for it is the problem
Sky Szimmer: “I” gets hooked at every turn
Avastu Maruti: the idea that there is an “I” that needs to “find” being is the problem
Avastu Maruti: if you can call it that
Avastu Maruti: but that TOO is being!
Sky Szimmer: yes. I too is Being
Avastu Maruti: yes
Avastu Maruti: so what is the problem?
Avastu Maruti: you are ALREADY THAT!
Sky Szimmer: there is never any problem when I am here talking with you guys: )
Pema Pera: hehe
Sky Szimmer: only when left to my own devices : )
Avastu Maruti: you are the very container in which it all happens
Avastu Maruti: and always HAVE BEEN
Sky Szimmer: Thank you to everyone! Unfortunately I must run.
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friend
Pema Pera: bye, Sky!
Pema Pera: Now you can be the Sky of Awareness!
And so the title for this session was born, while Sky said goodbye to us.
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Sky
Sky Szimmer: Thanks a bunch!!!!!
stevenaia Michinaga: I was late for the 1:00 group, but listening to you Avastu, was interesting
Avastu Maruti: you are already full and complete as you are, my friend - you need no dialog
Pema Pera: the dialog is really a form of celebration of not needing a dialog :-)
Pema Pera: not a tool or method
Avastu Maruti: yes - words can never describe reality, yet words happen!
Pema Pera: the express, rather than describe — like everything expresses Being
stevenaia Michinaga: but listeninG
stevenaia Michinaga: assists in understanding
Avastu Maruti: what is to be understood? understanding is knowledge
Avastu Maruti: knowledge is ignorance
Avastu Maruti: rest in not-knowing
Avastu Maruti: Truth can NEVER be given in words or grasped with the mind
Avastu Maruti: yet you ARE!
Avastu Maruti: undeniable
stevenaia Michinaga: that may work for being but not knowledge is relivent in interation with the physical world
Avastu Maruti: yes - “practical matters” require knowledge - but what really is happening?
Avastu Maruti: can we ever say?
stevenaia Michinaga: they are separate
Avastu Maruti: no, my friend
Avastu Maruti: separation never happened
Avastu Maruti: what are you now?
Avastu Maruti: without using concepts?
stevenaia Michinaga: I am here now
Avastu Maruti: yes!
Avastu Maruti: you ARE
Avastu Maruti: has that EVER not been the case?
stevenaia Michinaga: no
Avastu Maruti: all has happened within YOU
stevenaia Michinaga: I am always here
Avastu Maruti: YOU are the ground of all temporary experience
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Pema Pera: Hi Blane
Pema Pera: Come join us
Blane Ansar: Hi
Blane walked in, asked a simple question, upon which I gave a simple answer. Steve noticed that he was born in Second Life the day before.
Blane Ansar: wat r we doing ?
Pema Pera: talking about what we are
Blane Ansar: kool
stevenaia Michinaga: how did you find this place on your second day, Blane?
Blane Ansar: join me and take to the skys
Blane Ansar: lol
Pema Pera: that’s why we have a sun roof, Blane :)
Blane Ansar: well come on and follow me
Pema Pera: before I forget, blane, we have a blog where we record our conversations — do you mind being included on the blog?
Blane Ansar: its ok
Pema Pera: thanks!
Blane Ansar: as long as i dont get made fun of
Pema Pera: oh no, not to worry :)
stevenaia Michinaga: he keeps disappearing
Pema Pera: Another Sky of Awareness seeker?
stevenaia Michinaga: and I appear to be floating
Pema Pera: contagious!
jonni Thor: namaste blane
Pema Pera: Avastu, thanks for stopping by. I look forward to read the chat log of your earlier visit, today. It is so nice to see you bringing such a profound approach with Hindu roots, rather than the Buddhist roots that many people here have. Often visitors ask whether Play as Being is Buddhist. It is not; we respect Buddhism as well as many other traditions — and it is wonderful to see you concretely embodying such a different tradition. Thank you!
Avastu Maruti: you are welcome, my friend
I briefly summarized Play as Being for Blane.
Pema Pera: Blane, http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/ is our blog
Pema Pera: with background of what we’re doing here
stevenaia Michinaga: is not hinduism rooted in Buddism?
Blane Ansar: ok
jonni Thor: intersting question
jonni Thor: difficult to say whih came first i think
Pema Pera: historically the other way around
Pema Pera: Hinduism as a whole is much older
Blane Ansar: i want to ask somthing
jonni Thor: go on
Pema Pera: but Advaity Vedanta in its modern form came later
Pema Pera: sure, Blane!
Blane Ansar: not to sound rude but wtf are we doing here?
Blane Ansar: lol
Pema Pera: great question, Blane!
stevenaia Michinaga: ..smile
Pema Pera: We are talking about an exploration of reality
Pema Pera: in which we ask ourselves what we are
Blane Ansar: ok
Pema Pera: most of the time when we really look carefully
Pema Pera: what we think we are is actually what we have
Pema Pera: I am a man — I have a male gender
stevenaia Michinaga: good questions as yours are the basis of the discussion
Pema Pera: I am from Holland — I have Dutch citizenship
Blane Ansar: OK
Blane Ansar: im leaving
Pema Pera: almost anything we normally say “I am” for means something we have
Pema Pera: have a good trip, Blane!
Pema Pera: be well
Blane left, and Steve looked at his watch.
stevenaia Michinaga: that was another quick hour
Pema Pera: :)
Pema Pera: time flies when you’re having fun . . .
Pema Pera: Jonni, do you also have a Hindu tradition background?
jonni Thor: yeah my parents are sanyasins
Pema Pera: The Truth is the same, of course, the I am or just “am” . . .
stevenaia Michinaga: hope to see you soon, and pema perhaps tomarrow you can talk about that the approprate content ofor the video should be…smile I may not be the bleading edge of that point
Pema Pera: but it’s interesting to see all those different roots
Pema Pera: . . .smile
stevenaia Michinaga: see you soon
Pema Pera: sure, we’ll talk!
Pema Pera: thanks for stopping by, Steve!
jonni Thor: i chose to study dzogchen which from the mahyana tibetan line
jonni Thor: buddhist obviously
Pema Pera: yeah, but marginally so . . .
jonni Thor: srry my typing is bad
Pema Pera: in the sense that there are strong roots outside Buddhism too
Pema Pera: like the Tibetan Bon tradition
Pema Pera: many Tibetan buddhists traditionally did not accept dzogchen
Pema Pera: too wild for them :)
Pema Pera: too direct
jonni Thor: yeah sure byt dzogchen is pretty well rooted but your right some tibetans rejected dzogchen
jonni Thor: people find the vehicle that suites them
Pema Pera: perhaps grafted onto buddhism rather than rooted — sorry, don’t want to be too picky here, but interesting to see the differences
Pema Pera: yes, sure!
Avastu Maruti: Pema, if you’re interested sometime, stop by and see the new Nonduality Corner at OWOKUN island
Pema Pera: sure!
Pema Pera: Shall we go there now?
Avastu Maruti: if you like
Pema Pera: fine!
Pema Pera: Want to join us, Jonni?
jonni Thor: yeah sure
We then teleported over to Avastu’s Nonduality Corner, on OWOKUN Meditation Island.
jonni Thor: see u there
Pema Pera: Nice place, Avastu!
jonni Thor: where were we
Avastu Maruti: if you have media muted, you can hear the various chants from the nondual traditions
Avastu Maruti: the pictures on the wall hold notecards and quotes, the books can be clicked on to read the texts online
Pema Pera: wow, that’s a wonderful idea, those chants!
Pema Pera: perfect setup!
Pema Pera: May I ask, is there a connection with Osho?
Pema Pera: I see the name after the coordinates on the top
Avastu Maruti: the owners of the island are connected with Osho in some way
Pema Pera: ah, I see
jonni Thor: the island here was set up based on osho teaching the temple here is a replica of the one at the ashram in puna
Avastu Maruti: but they are looking to expand that into other traditions
jonni Thor: known as buddah hall
jonni Thor: many osho centers now teach a range of things from different traditions although this is controversial amoung sanyasans
Pema Pera: any young spiritual organization has many controversies . . . amazing that any initiative can last at all . . . .
Pema Pera: older organizations only avoid those controversies by becoming rigid . . . .
I let my camera look around and noticed that we were up in the sky.
Pema Pera: nice sky building, Avastu, with the ponds and the minimal structure from the outside
Pema Pera: and the rich presentation of traditions inside
Pema Pera: is this the place where you teach now?
Avastu Maruti: spontaneous conversations seem to happen here
Avastu Maruti: the scheduled class takes place on the island
Pema Pera: below?
Avastu Maruti: yes
jonni Thor: cool
Pema Pera: are the conversations here voice or also text sometimes?
Avastu Maruti: depends on the microphone
Pema Pera: Do you invite people to stop by here? At certain hours?
Avastu Maruti: no, nothing scheduled here
Pema Pera: Or more like a personal living room, with occasional guests?
Avastu Maruti: yes, seems to be that way
jonni Thor: great place to generate discussion
jonni Thor: well done
Pema Pera: yes, so much inspiration in so many ways!
Pema Pera: visual, audio, atmosphere
Pema Pera: Well, I’ll be on my way
Pema Pera: Thanks for showing me this place, Avastu!
Avastu Maruti: good bye, my friend
Pema Pera: And thanks again for joining us earlier
Pema Pera: nice meeting you Jonni!
Pema Pera: Hope you’ll stop by again
jonni Thor: blesings and peace
Pema Pera: now that you’ve found us!
Pema Pera: you too!
