2008.07.01 07:00 - Chatbots and levels of beings playing

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    The weather in SL seems so nice. Riddle (me) was guardian and far too chatty today.

    Riddle Sideways: good morning, Fael
    Fael Illyar: Hi Riddle :)
    Riddle Sideways: I really like your outfit
    Fael Illyar: thank you :)
    Riddle Sideways: SL resolves in a different way then RL
    Riddle Sideways: I was just watching the trees become
    Fael Illyar: trees become?
    Riddle Sideways: there was nothing there
    Riddle Sideways: then there was some white prims
    Riddle Sideways: then a shape
    Riddle Sideways: then a brown trunk
    Riddle Sideways: then yellow leafs
    Fael Illyar: ah, yes, rezzing :)
    Riddle Sideways: rezzing is the proper word but...
    Riddle Sideways: become seemed to fit too
    Riddle Sideways: as in RL daybreak was the proper word
    Riddle Sideways: but it became morning works too

    Maxine joins us.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine :)
    Riddle Sideways: hi Maxine
    Maxine Walden: hi, Riddle, Fael
    Riddle Sideways: I had a kitty walk across me about 5am
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Faenik: could be
    Riddle Sideways: so I started watching the dawn rezzing in

    Fael had technical problems, left and came back.

    Fael Illyar: I should leave testing preferences I should leave testing preferences for later, managed to make my screen black. Will be back in a moment
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Riddle Sideways: Maxine, I got a blank your blank email?
    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, error on my part, sorry if it brought confusion
    Fael Illyar: did my attempt at writing a message blind get through?
    Maxine Walden: just now, Fael?
    Riddle Sideways: yes
    Fael Illyar: yes, before I logged out and back in
    Maxine Walden: yes
    Riddle Sideways: TY most ppl would have just left
    Riddle Sideways: very considerate
    Fael Illyar: well, the sounds were still playing like it was only the picture that wasn't working so I tried if I can still write messages by remembering how it works

    we had a long silent spot.

    Faenik: indeed?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Maxine Walden: nice to listen to the morning sounds
    Riddle Sideways: yes, that is what I was just doing

    The following section has very little to Caspian, whom I do not know yet.  
    Caspian was only the catalyst for my remembering many years of my Playing with software generated Beings.

    Riddle Sideways: I was bothered by something in Rajah's chat log
    Maxine Walden: oh?
    Riddle Sideways: when Caspian Inglewood was here
    Maxine Walden: think I read it briefly but am not recalling...
    Riddle Sideways: in reading the log it struck me that Caspian might have been a chat bot
    Faenik: why not?
    Maxine Walden: chat bot?
    Fael Illyar: quite well made one if he is.
    Fael Illyar: Not the first time I've seen him around.
    Riddle Sideways: had a huge vocabulary
    Fael Illyar: also, he was silent for the last half of one session after which Moon said he'd been IMing with him.
    Riddle Sideways: ok

    A discussion of what a bot (software roBot) is, although we did not do enough detail.

    Maxine Walden: sorry, what is a chat bot?
    Riddle Sideways: chat bot is an software agent
    Riddle Sideways: that responds to chat with it's own chat
    Maxine Walden: sort of an inanimate infiltrator?
    Maxine Walden: or a mindless one?
    Riddle Sideways: not artifical intelligence
    Riddle Sideways: but approching
    Fael Illyar: I don't think he's a bot but what he says isn't often really connected with the topic others are talking about.
    Maxine Walden: huh, did not know such were around
    Maxine Walden: what is the 'purpose' of a chat bot, something like a hacker?
    Riddle Sideways: his non-connectedness was what first threw me
    Riddle Sideways: a chatbot makes a good greeter in many worlds
    Fael Illyar: he mostly seems to be throwing about quotes from different people in Zen Buddhism
    Riddle Sideways: hacker is different
    Maxine Walden: ah, right, a greeter but without much depth, while might appear to 'know' a lot
    Fael Illyar: Well, he might be a "hybrid". chatbot sometimes and real user other times.
    Riddle Sideways: there are many chatbots that will talk on and on about ther companies products
    Faenik loves wells!
    Riddle Sideways: probably
    Maxine Walden: thanks, I feel better oriented to chat bots, guess the issue is how to relate to him/it
    Riddle Sideways: there are a couple tech support websites that you chat with bots about your product problems
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: but I don't think it's an unsupervised bot.
    Riddle Sideways: There are also some bots that have almost beaten the Turning test
    Fael Illyar: I mean, he reacts sensibly to Moon playing around with him nonverbally.
    Riddle Sideways: for whether a human can distinquish between
    Riddle Sideways: a human or software that they are chatting with
    Riddle Sideways: So, it really did not matter to me about him
    Riddle Sideways: it was how an artifical intelligence could be in SL
    Riddle Sideways: and moreover in PaB
    Riddle Sideways: more into the fasination of an AI going through the chat logs for intel

    In the above, I was not meaningfully ignoring Fael (though it sure reads that way).
    I wished to get Maxine up to speed on Bots and then expand to hybrid, helper and guided chat sessions.

    Fael Illyar: We do actually have something resembling a chat bot here, every time I'm around :P
    Riddle Sideways: lol
    Fael Illyar: very primitive one though
    Riddle Sideways: I like Faenik
    Faenik meaows confusedly.
    Fael Illyar: although, I can make him say things too :)
    Riddle Sideways: why does Faenik love wells?
    Fael Illyar: Well, there is a friend I have who has this scripted attachment that drops a well on someone when it detects the word "well" in chat.
    Faenik: ????^^
    Fael Illyar: I was going to make Faenik move temporarily to his position before proclaiming loving wells when I filled the notecard for the phrases :P
    Riddle Sideways: :)

    Then Maxine had to leave.

    Maxine Walden: (afraid RL is tugging at my sleeve so will need to go) Nice seeing you both
    Fael Illyar: well, of course it only works in places where you can rez things.
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Maxine :)
    Riddle Sideways: very nice Maxine
    Maxine Walden: bye Fael and Riddle
    Riddle Sideways: see you later

    We talked about PaB attendence.

    Fael Illyar: quite few people around today.
    Riddle Sideways: yes, this slot does not seem to get many
    Fael Illyar: still more than 1AM slot, usually :)
    Faenik: ????^^
    Riddle Sideways: I would think that is went most the euro ppl would be here
    Fael Illyar: that's 11AM for me.
    Riddle Sideways: oh
    Fael Illyar: I'm sometimes here at that time.
    Fael Illyar: I'd think most people are at work at this time in Europe.
    Riddle Sideways: 7am, I am just getting started
    Riddle Sideways: for the day
    Fael Illyar: :)

    I just would not let the Bot subject drop :)

    Riddle Sideways: I need to get my agent software back out and make it work some
    Fael Illyar: :)
    Riddle Sideways: there is a inferrence engine that can go over huge amounts of text
    Fael Illyar: Yes, if you feed something intelligent enough all the PaB meeting logs, it might be actually useful.
    Riddle Sideways: I am starting to get excited about this, but I will not have time for it for a couple weeks
    Riddle Sideways: work and RL have me bogged down
    Riddle Sideways: where did you learn about scripting SL
    Riddle Sideways: is there an ivory tower type location
    Fael Illyar: if you want to use LSL scripts for doing this bot, you're going to have it interface with a server (through http requests) elsewhere for the actual logic.
    Fael Illyar: LSL simply is too inefficient for much
    Fael Illyar: well, the memory limit of 16kB per script is also bad. Not to mention that filling a list in a loop is O(N^2) operation
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: trust me, you don't want to do the logic part with LSL :)
    Riddle Sideways: ok, I have the servers.
    Riddle Sideways: which is ideal because that is where the big sw runs
    Riddle Sideways: but, where do I learn LSL
    Fael Illyar: I wonder if there is a tutorial place for it ... I can't recall any.
    Fael Illyar: the syntax resembles C a lot
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Fael Illyar: but I mostly got things done by reading www.lslwiki.net
    Riddle Sideways: thanks
    Fael Illyar: I know places in world that have tutorials for building, textures and particles.
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Fael Illyar: anyway, lslwiki has a lot of code examples you can read to get familiar with LSL
    Riddle Sideways: ok, thank you
    Riddle Sideways: now I need to find the time
    Fael Illyar: That's often a problem :)

    A section about marveling over how calm and un-calm can coexist within us at the same time.
    Most think that you can't be both calm and un-calm at the same time, but experience shows it to happen often.

    Riddle Sideways: the chimes are so nice
    Riddle Sideways: how calming the chimes sound, even though my mind in racing with what I have to do today
    Riddle Sideways: and maybe to find time for fun SL learning
    Fael Illyar: I tend to keep what I'm going to do out of my mind until I start doing it.
    Riddle Sideways: I REALLY should too, but...
    Fael Illyar: well, unless it requires planning.
    Fael Illyar: although, in that case I'm already doing it in a way
    Riddle Sideways: I am going through a phase where I am doing to much on it
    Fael Illyar: too much on ... it?
    Riddle Sideways: of
    Fael Illyar: ah, too much planning :)
    Riddle Sideways: yes, sorry
    Riddle Sideways: I usually only plant problems/situation/code snippets in my head
    Riddle Sideways: for calculating at night or in odd moments
    Riddle Sideways: but lately those get solved in the middle of the night
    Riddle Sideways: leaving some night left
    Riddle Sideways: and I spend too much time planning how/when to do that solution
    Riddle Sideways: which turns into planning the day
    Riddle Sideways: which turns into a waste when the phone rings and somebody elses
    Riddle Sideways: choas takes my schedule
    Riddle Sideways: :)
    Fael Illyar: Which is pretty much why I don't plan much :)
    Riddle Sideways: good
    Faenik loves wells!
    Fael Illyar: becomes wasted effort way too easily.
    Riddle Sideways: It has gotten out of hand lately
    Fael Illyar: Although, if you enjoy the planning :P
    Riddle Sideways: if it is like planning for a party
    Riddle Sideways: not if it is like planning 12 hrs of ops into a 5 hour space :)
    Fael Illyar: well, yes, that tends to be ... impossible :)
    Riddle Sideways: so it turns into worry
    Riddle Sideways: and disappointment
    Fael Illyar: although, if you're constantly trying to cram 12 hrs of ops into 5 hours, you seriously need to drop some of those completely.
    Riddle Sideways: agreed

    Then I was invaded and interrupted by another being that wanted to play.

    Riddle Sideways: am having trouble typing, with a 'get in your face' kitty on my keyboard
    Fael Illyar: You've got a cat?
    Riddle Sideways: Naomi, is a black hairy ball with eyes and tail.
    Fael Illyar: hehe :)
    Riddle Sideways: I've got a cat between me and my keyboard
    Riddle Sideways: 3 cats in this house
    Riddle Sideways: ah, when life gets too serious... one of my cats comes to the rescue
    Fael Illyar: At the moment, I don't have any animals here but I'll have a few gerbils soon I think.
    Riddle Sideways: good, they are fun
    Fael Illyar: My sister decided to make hers have babies.
    Fael Illyar: so, I'm apparently going to get a couple.
    Riddle Sideways: will they be male and female?
    Faenik: why not?
    Fael Illyar: remains to be seen :)
    Riddle Sideways: :)

    And so this session ends.

    Riddle Sideways: Well, RL is calling soon
    Riddle Sideways: I need to check on a client
    Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later then :)
    Riddle Sideways: thank you again
    Riddle Sideways: bye

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