When I arrived at the Pavilion Fael was already there. I asked Fael about the Wiki and Pia quickly joined us
Fael Illyar: Hello Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Hello Fael :)
Adams Rubble: Are we supposed to be sending the chat logs to the wiki now?
Fael Illyar: well, not really I guess.
Fael Illyar: still in testing phase
Fael Illyar: Hi Pia
Adams Rubble: Hi PIa :)
Pia Iger: Hi, Fael, Adams,
Fael Illyar: Although, to get used to the system, you might take a look at how it works :)
Adams Rubble: Yes, I’ll have to do that. One can get very behind in SL in three days
Fael Illyar: Looks like the way to get something happening is to do something yourself ;)
Pia Iger: talking about new wiki?
Fael Illyar: yes
Adams Rubble: Yes
Adams Rubble: I just asked if the chat logs should be posted there yet
Pia Iger: sorry, I enjoy being floated.
Fael Illyar: riddle at least posted one of his already.
Pia Iger: Yes, I saw it.
Adams Rubble: ah
Fael Illyar: As long as you tell Pema you’re putting it there instead of emailing, it’s ok I suppose.
Adams Rubble: I had the idea that at some point we were to do both
Pia Iger: start July 1
Fael Illyar: Well, nothing stops Pema from getting the logs from the wiki :)
Adams Rubble: Last Monday
Faenik: なるほど^^
Pia Iger: so Riddle was on time
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: might in fact be easier for him than digging them from his email
Pia Iger: agree.
Pia Iger: I have not read emails yet. but are the page layout discussed?
Fael Illyar: No, not really I think
Pia Iger: I still feel the old wordpress page look nicer.
Fael Illyar: It would be good if someone did a graphical design for the page.
Pia Iger: or template of page layout
Fael Illyar: there are a few options built in but you can also modify it a lot
Pia Iger: at the same time, we need to use the same page layout. format (fonts, typo), all guardians, right?
Pia Iger: uniformed.
Adams Rubble: It would look better if uniform
Fael Illyar: check it again, I switched the theme
Cal joined us and we continued discussing the wiki
Caledonia Heron: morning
Fael Illyar: Hi Cal
Adams Rubble: Hi Cal :)
Caledonia Heron: :)
Fael Illyar: there’s something in the wiki now. http://playasbeing.wik.is/
Caledonia Heron: very good - I’ll look
Pia Iger: nicer.
Adams Rubble: Doesn’t look like I can getr there while on SL :(
Fael Illyar: the 1.20 client has a built in web-browser
Fael Illyar: I’ve been running this Cool SL modifie version of 1.20.11 for a few days now. No crashes
Pia Iger: I see the right side column is modified.
Caledonia Heron: loading….
Faenik: なるほど^^
Fael Illyar: anyway, there is a lot you can do to modify the wiki page’s look
Adams Rubble: and where would logs go?
Fael Illyar: in the left side, there is this grey list of links. one of them is what Riddle created for chat logs
Adams Rubble: ah, I see
Fael Illyar: I could also add a link more visibly from the front page
Caledonia Heron: looks like they go in Play As Being Chatlogs , a link on the left
Adams Rubble: That might be better as just “chat logs”
Fael Illyar: true, I’ll change that
Fael Illyar: There
Pia Iger: how about having the date and time before title of chat log
Fael Illyar: Yes, good idea I think
Pia Iger: so easier to search:)
Caledonia Heron: nice job on the wiki :)
Cal leaves us and I ask Pia if we can continue discussing her experience where a man followed her from the subway (see: http://playasbeing.wik.is/. It was a difficult moment for her and I had been wondering how I would have reacted myself in such a situation.
Adams Rubble: Yes, nice job! Well does anybody have any PaB experiences they would like to share?
Fael Illyar: hmmh… at the moment my head is rather overfull with the wiki :P
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: Pia, would you mind if we discussed your subway experience a bit more?
Caledonia Heron:
Pia Iger: ok.
Pia Iger: have you been thinking about it?
Adams Rubble: Yes, first i am sorry that I allowed myself to be focused away from you that day
Pia Iger: how?
Adams Rubble: The message about the Bodhisattva compassion is useful to remember
Adams Rubble: but your situation seemed to call for some prudence
Pia Iger: definitely
Adams Rubble: let me take a side road
Adams Rubble: I was thinking a bit about Mother theresa
Pia Iger: OH.
Faenik: なるほど^^
Adams Rubble: She may have acted perfectly in that situation
Adams Rubble: but it took her years and the dedication of her entire life to reach that
Adams Rubble: although Christian she showed Bodhisattva compassion
Adams Rubble: I’m not sure I am getting there yet
Adams Rubble: We need guidelines to help us discern
Adams Rubble: and probably even training to deal with a situation like that
Adams Rubble: does that make sense?
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: are you talking about the situation Pema referred to in the conversation with Caspian?
Adams Rubble: yes Fael but I’m discussing the situation, not what Caspian said
Adams Rubble: I think it needs more attention
Pia Iger: I heard about, I did not read myself
Adams Rubble: Pema mentioned my exchange with Caspian
Pia Iger: Mother theresa was struggling herself in her late years.
Pia Iger: It was not easy for her too.
Adams Rubble: yes
Pia Iger: sometimes. she felt God was not with her. something like that
Adams Rubble: which in a round-about-way can be kind of an inspiration to us
Adams Rubble: when we are struggling
Adams Rubble: to know someone so selfless also struggled
Adams Rubble: The other point is putting purselves in danger to help someone
Adams Rubble: The Good Samaratan story also kept popping into my head
Fael Illyar: I think the word “selfless” itself is potentially misleading.
Adams Rubble: please explain fael
Fael Illyar: I’d think the people generally regarded as selfless were actually doing what they did for quite selfish reasons in the end.
Fael Illyar: We just can’t see those reasons
Adams Rubble: hi Stevenaia :)
Adams Rubble: The reasons why she did things?
Steve joined us then and wished us a happy Fourth of July
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
Fael Illyar: Hi Steve
Pia Iger: Hi, Steve,
Faenik: なるほど^^
Fael Illyar: properly convoluted, helping others becomes a selfish goal.
stevenaia Michinaga: happy holiday for those in the US
Pia Iger: yes. Fael, their reason may be to ‘get a good fame’
Pia Iger: of self-salvation.
Adams Rubble: Thanks Steve. A big day for the Adamses :)
Pia Iger: thanks, Steve.
Adams Rubble: That is posible Fael but it is a life of good works
stevenaia Michinaga: I was about to do work for a bit, but then 9 seconds later… I was here
Fael Illyar: :)
Adams Rubble: Steve, we are discussing putting ourselves in possible danger to help someone
Adams Rubble: We are discussing Mother Theresa right now
stevenaia Michinaga: I once thought about that, and realised for my child it was not even a decision that needed to be made
stevenaia Michinaga: for others would be a bit more complex process that I ahve never undertaken
Fael Illyar: The question mostly becomes, could you live with yourself if you didn’t do it.
Adams Rubble: Yes, I have thought that too but the opening expereince is Pia’s enounter on a NY subway at night…I think with no one else around
Adams Rubble: Fael that was in answer to Steve
Fael Illyar: if the answer is no, you pretty much don’t have a choice
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, but for another friend, or someone you didn;t know who was in danger… I would ahve to think
Adams Rubble: Fael, I think that answer is a little clearer with Seve’s example
Fael Illyar: Yes, of course the answer is clearer in some cases
Pia Iger: and easier to do in some cases
stevenaia Michinaga: and I was talking more about smy life for my sons, but harm has degrees
stevenaia Michinaga: are you talking about helping some one being mugged?
Pia Iger: no.
Pia Iger: I think it is more like to give time and listen to the less fortunate.
Pia Iger: to give compassion.
Adams Rubble: Pia, I think I remember it was night and he followed you out of the subway?
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pia Iger: yes. He was unpleasant, and had some intention.
Adams Rubble: So real posible danger involved
Pia Iger: I think I did right at the time.
Adams Rubble: I am impressed that you recognize some moral ambiguity and wanted to talk about it
Pia Iger: Adams, you pointed it out. I notice I had some layers of thoughts in my mind.
Pia appeared to be typing and often we waited to see what she was about to say
Pia Iger: My AV looks typing, while I am not.
Fael Illyar: Yes, that’s a bug that happens quite often
Adams Rubble: Ah, I was wondering, thanks
Fael Illyar: also happens in IM windows that it keeps telling you the other person is typing even when not
Fael Illyar: lasts until there actually is some real typing going on
Pia Iger: Now I am fine.
Adams Rubble: This is a difficult topic we are discussing today
Adams Rubble: so many layers
Fael Illyar: yes, you typed something again so it canceled the effect when it recogniced you stopped typing :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, very complex topic, overall
Fael Illyar: but how much of it comes from self and how much from Being …
Adams Rubble: please go on fael
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I didn’t mean to jump in so quickly when I first arrived in the middle of it
Fael Illyar: I was about to say it’s entirely from self but when I had finished the sentence, it jsut felt wrong.
Adams Rubble: There is a survival issue….is that wrong?
Fael Illyar: um, not wrong as moral issue, wrong as truth issue
Pia Iger: truth issue?
Fael Illyar: yes, as in I was about to say “helping others comes entirely from self and not Being” but when I had finished it. I got the feeling that can’t be true.
Adams Rubble: Ah
Faenik: ah :)
Adams Rubble: there is Bodhisattva compassion
Adams Rubble: or greater Love in Christianity
Adams Rubble: but if we don;t survive to reach that level of compassion (Love)…..
Faenik: why not?
Pia Iger: and the reason the incident kept in my mind, is that I know even in a very safe situation, I may still run away and do nothing, no eye contact,
Fael Illyar: Some of us tend to fear unknown people without any real base. No matter who they are.
Adams Rubble: Pia, you are thinking about it, and re-evaluating your actions, that is an important step
Adams Rubble: I think
Pia Iger: here my fear is to misery.
Faenik: why not?
Adams Rubble: And fael, we do tend to fear the unknown and make judgements about appearances of people
Adams Rubble: until we look past the facade
Pia Iger: This particular unknown is dirty. sad, miserable.
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must go now… I have the log today. If you keep discussing this andthink it is important, maybe one of you would send the rest?
Pia Iger: ok.
Pia Iger: have a good day. Adams
Adams Rubble: Thank you all and I hope all of you have a great day too :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Adams :)
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Adamas, always nice to see you
I left with Pia, fael and Stevenaia still talking.
[from here on, the chat log and comments are from Pia]
This topic is truly complex. I tried to clarify what I was really concerned with.
Pia Iger: the homeless symbolized the misfortune we try to avoid in our life
Pia Iger: I have seen them as something totally different from me.
Pia Iger: but it may not be true.
stevenaia Michinaga: I realize I was late, but, could you go over your encounter that started this dicussion for me?
Fael Illyar: Ah, sorry, I need to leave as well.
Pia Iger: bye, Fael.
Fael Illyar: Bye, it was nice seeing you, Steve, Pia :)
stevenaia Michinaga: Pia, I can read about it in the blogs and pick it up in the future
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Fael
Pia Iger: very simple, a drunk/drug addict on subway wanted to talk to me, and followed me a bit.
Pia Iger: I avoided him, not eye contact,
Pia Iger: just walked my way.
stevenaia Michinaga: talk to you about what? Sounds uncomfortable
stevenaia Michinaga: and understandable
Pia Iger: it is not for this case perse.
stevenaia Michinaga: if drugs and drink were involved , they may not have been rational either
Pia Iger: Right.
Pia Iger: of cause I will not do anything by myself.
Pia Iger: but meeting this kind of miserable ppl starts to make me think..
Pia Iger: how I have been brushing off ppl with less fortunate.
stevenaia Michinaga: reminds me of a parallel thought about loving yourself before you can love another, you also have to preserve you life from harm before you can live on to help preserve others
Pia Iger: that makes good sense
stevenaia Michinaga: but being defenseless in potential harms way is not a situation where I think compassion is in the first order of things
Pia Iger: sure.
stevenaia Michinaga: there are safe places to help, should you choose to
stevenaia Michinaga: rather than letting them choose you
Pia Iger: good point.
Pia Iger: I don’t think I am in place of taking any action yet. More struggling in my mind
We talked a bit of Steve’s interest in Buddhism, and then each went back RL for the July 4th day!
Pia Iger: are you buddhist? I dont know.
stevenaia Michinaga: actually not, I know more Buddhists than I ever realized here and in Rl, but it’s an interest mainly
stevenaia Michinaga: I understand some of their perspectives, but ot in any great detail
Pia Iger: I start to feel them are so different from what I assumed before.
stevenaia Michinaga: in a nieve way I consider it a suit that might fit if I were to try it on
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m jsut learning, not assuming about their beliefs, I went to the MET in NYC and through their SE Asian collections which speaks about them many Buddhists branches, there is quite the variety out there, not one
Pia Iger: yes, I understand there are many branches.
Pia Iger: I am getting more intrigued by Buddhism now.
stevenaia Michinaga: some people I know have been studying it for decades.
stevenaia Michinaga: there are beginners’ books but even they confuse me as it is quite complex requiting a new understanding and some very long word
stevenaia Michinaga: words
Pia Iger: yes. Translations of names are long.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
