2008.07.09 07:00 - A Rich Landscape

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    Hello Gentle Reader, this log is brought to you by me, Caledonia, the host and commentor for this session.  We had another rich discourse as we make our intergalactic study of Being.  Thanks to Fael for wiki assistance this go around.

    Hello and Howdy!:


    Fael Illyar: Hi Cal :)

    CaledoniaHeron: hi :) good morning Fael :)

    CaledoniaHeron: how are you?

    Fael Illyar: I'm good, thank you. How are you?

    CaledoniaHeron: well, thanks ...waking up :)

    Fael Illyar: I added a tutorial to the wiki about adding meeting logs. It's a bit primitive still though.

    Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine

    Maxine Walden: hi, Fael

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, I saw it , very helpful ....I will be using it in about an hour :)

    CaledoniaHeron: hey there Maxine :)

    Maxine Walden: hi, Cal

    Faenik: why not?


    A little bit about the wiki that Fael has crafted so well:


    CaledoniaHeron: I wondered if you had considered listing the chat logs in most recent first order?

    Maxine Walden: and Fael, thanks for the wiki tutorial, have not seen it yet but will of course look at it thoroughly

    Fael Illyar: That is possible too... I wonder which way would work best.

    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

    CaledoniaHeron: to my thinking, most recent first, economy of motion for me really, click the top one to see the most recent

    Maxine Walden: that makes sense to me as well

    Fael Illyar: Yes, I'll change it that way then.

    CaledoniaHeron: sounds good - we'll try it and see how it goes :)

    Fael Illyar: Hope you don't mean the sidebar list. That I can't change.

    CaledoniaHeron: no, not at all, just the main body list


    Choosing where we sit and are you packing?:


    Fael Illyar: Hi Adams

    Maxine Walden: interesting I am becoming self conscious of the seating right now, want to sit equi-distant between you; not sure why, but something about balance and inclusiveness, so pardon while I change seats

    Maxine Walden: hi, Adams

    CaledoniaHeron: I do that too Maxine :) to balance the circle

    AdamsRubble: Hello Fael, Maxine and Cal :)

    CaledoniaHeron: hey there Adams:)

    Fael Illyar: Seating is a way of communicating things too :)

    AdamsRubble: Or the closest to the door :)

    Maxine Walden: oh, thanks, Cal, and yes, Fael, agree with seating as communication

    CaledoniaHeron: don't sit with your back to the door, the wild bill hickcock seat :)

    Maxine Walden: funny all the strands of communication simultaneously

    AdamsRubble: :)

    AdamsRubble: I'm packing Cal

    CaledoniaHeron: yes it's a textual juggling act :)

    CaledoniaHeron: ha ha Adams

    CaledoniaHeron: can feel the heat

    Maxine Walden: oh, yes, the Wild West has its own rules

    Fael Illyar: Adams packing?

    CaledoniaHeron: slang for carrying a gun :)

    AdamsRubble: carrying a weapon...actually I'm not :)

    Maxine Walden: here we go...Fael might not understand the reference, Adams/font>

    Fael Illyar: :)

    CaledoniaHeron: yeah, me neither :) we're safe

    Fael Illyar: it's been years since I watched a western

    AdamsRubble: Just confuse them with conceptions of Being


    A random vampire encounter:


    CaledoniaHeron: I was telling Fael that a vampire stopped by my place last night

    AdamsRubble: oh oh

    CaledoniaHeron: offered to bite me

    CaledoniaHeron: yikes

    Maxine Walden: oh, please tell us more

    Maxine Walden: really? a dream?

    CaledoniaHeron: a dream vampire? no, an sl vampire :)

    Maxine Walden: or play ...ah, got it


    Back to the log for a bit:


    Fael Illyar: One slight problem with ordering the meeting logs in the list I just noticed. it sorts 1AM then 1PM then 7AMand 7PM

    AdamsRubble: yes I noticed

    Fael Illyar: should we change to 24-hour times there?

    CaledoniaHeron: ahhhh, ok, a bit of a problem there

    AdamsRubble: or number 1, 2, 3 4 ?

    CaledoniaHeron: that would make sense to me , 24 hours

    CaledoniaHeron: maybe we could simply the naming convention also

    CaledoniaHeron: the whole year,monthday time is a little cumbersome

    Fael Illyar: well, we could drop the year I guess.

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, a good start, we know what year it is :)

    CaledoniaHeron: for now anyway

    AdamsRubble: It depends on how long this will go on

    Fael Illyar: I initially actually dropped both year and month but that didn't look right to me

    CaledoniaHeron: yeah, tough to choose

    AdamsRubble: I think we should keep year too

    Faenik loves wells!

    CaledoniaHeron: the directory collapses so I think everyone can probably figure out the year

    AdamsRubble: Time passes quickly and soon it becomes important (from experience with files)

    CaledoniaHeron: I see that also Adams/font>

    AdamsRubble: Just need to order the sessions

    AdamsRubble: a, b, c, d or 1, 2, 3, 4

    Fael Illyar: It's good to have the whole date visible.

    Fael Illyar: so you don't have to look around the page to figure it out

    CaledoniaHeron: ok, uncle :)

    AdamsRubble: :)

    Fael Illyar: not everyone opens the meeting logs through the menu

    Fael Illyar: some people get link from others

    CaledoniaHeron: just putting it out there, my own peccadillo on sifting data :)


    A stab at focus:

    CaledoniaHeron: so, how is everyone being? :)


    And the focus is…..the log!!:


    Fael Illyar: I'd prefer 24 hour clock myself. Easier to handle if we ever add more sessions and such

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, 24 is good Fael

    Maxine Walden: agree with 24

    AdamsRubble: I just got a brief list of the newly posted logs and I missed quite a bit over the weekend

    Faenik loves wells!

    Fael Illyar: I see Sylectra also needs to read my meeting log tutorial :)

    CaledoniaHeron: I have to dim sum the logs ....never sure I get the full picture.....

    AdamsRubble: dim sum?

    CaledoniaHeron: pick and choose :) like dim sum lunches

    AdamsRubble: Hmm. Never heard that used before

    Fael Illyar: Hi Sky

    CaledoniaHeron: lol, I just made it up is probably why :)

    AdamsRubble: haha


    Sky joins us and we talk about simple pleasures:


    Maxine Walden: hi, Sky

    AdamsRubble: Hi Sky

    CaledoniaHeron: hi Sky

    Sky Szimmer: hi there.

    CaledoniaHeron: I wanted to ask around something that occurred to me the other night

    Maxine Walden: please, Cal/font>

    CaledoniaHeron: I was doing something I really like to do, very "there" at the event and found myself thinking this is soooo good, I wish you guys could experience it

    CaledoniaHeron: then I got to thinking....I wonder what pab people do for fun?

    CaledoniaHeron: what do you enjoy, relax and find yourself in the moment of?

    AdamsRubble: That was a nice thought Cal:)

    AdamsRubble: I like to walk in the woods

    Maxine Walden: ah...what pab folk do in RL 'moments'?

    Fael Illyar: I don't really have a constant thing that I could describe ... oh wait, maybe I can. I like to learn new things. What I'm learning just keeps changing.

    Faenik: could be

    CaledoniaHeron: yes Maxine, for fun, how do you enjoy yourself, what do you get lost in?

    Sky Szimmer: i love hanging out with my family and friend, i love just being outdoors, i love festivals, i love to eat, i love to do new things, i love to work

    CaledoniaHeron: :)

    AdamsRubble: :)

    Maxine Walden: I get lost in caring for a garden on the weekends, and often books during he week; also good friends at times

    Maxine Walden: but also being with intimate family of course

    Fael Illyar: Although, I'm quite close to putting PaB meetings into that category myself.

    Faenik: indeed?

    Fael Illyar: Yes, Faenik :P

    CaledoniaHeron: so many things, and all so truly great to do :)

    Maxine Walden: yes, pab meetings, easy to get lost in them...they could go on and on

    Maxine Walden: rather counting our blessings when there are so many wonderful things to do

    AdamsRubble: :)


    And what is going on when we’re not relaxed?:


    Sky Szimmer: so many things to enjoy but it is all rather enjoyable, but it is interesting to note when we aren't relaxed and why that is

    Maxine Walden: yes, Sky

    Fael Illyar: After I started PaBing, the number of events when I'm not relaxed has been going down.

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, lots of ways to get derailed Sky

    Faenik: why not?

    CaledoniaHeron: great Fael :)

    Maxine Walden: perhaps PaB allows us to feel more at ease with ourselves, keeping the doubts, etc in their place rather than at times defining

    Sky Szimmer: i have noticed that i have learned to limit myself in so many ways just because of some idea i have adopted along the way

    Maxine Walden: yes, that can be so hampering

    Sky Szimmer: but in a dream, it can all be rather limitless. so the limits are what we place on ourselves

    CaledoniaHeron: I know what you mean Sky - over the last 10 years or so I have really come in to my own in that regard

    Faenik: indeed?

    CaledoniaHeron: I have shed many self imposed "rules"

    Fael Illyar: I've been doing that too.

    Sky Szimmer: how do you noticed those rules?

    Sky Szimmer: so many are vague

    Sky Szimmer: so ingrained that we don't take notice

    AdamsRubble: I think that if we look at our fears, anxieties, desires we may find that many of these rules fall under one of those categories

    CaledoniaHeron: well, I can relate to all of you who appear to me now, ostensibly as women :), that many have to do with what roles women hold

    Faenik: could be

    Fael Illyar: I refuse to be content with just "I shouldn't do that" for long. If I don't eventually figure out "why not", I'm going to start experimenting doing it if I feel like I want to.

    Sky Szimmer: that is nice.

    Fael Illyar: if I feel like I don't want to, that gets similar treatment

    AdamsRubble: YesCal/place />, society's rules are different

    CaledoniaHeron: yes Adamsand really malleable to a degree

    AdamsRubble: yes


    And what of fears?:


    Sky Szimmer: for me, it has been very interesting to see all the limitations and fears that i have taken on but to also see them freeing up

    Sky Szimmer: in the past, i have written off the fears as being practical, like assessing different situations and seeing a worst case scenario, but that is just fear

    Caledonia Heron: I see an arc of fearlessness, totally fearless as a very young woman out of wildness, a little more fearful as I matured and now, at this point.....pretty darn fearless

    Maxine Walden: and just being able to take a look and see beyond the constraint I find helpful and freeing. To see that it is a cloud rather than 'all there is'

    Sky Szimmer: you do seem fearless Caland daring.

    CaledoniaHeron: lol

    CaledoniaHeron: most of the time

    CaledoniaHeron: sometimes the demons come :)

    Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, my fears of course are subject to equal treatment as I described earlier too :)

    Maxine Walden: or 'who I am'. But at times it can be difficult to tell what is a demon or fear and what is 'true'

    Fael Illyar: Some have just been rather ... tough ones.

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, if you're totally enveloped Maxine, that can be difficult to see

    Adams Rubble can relate to all that


    When 9 seconds sneaks up on you:


    CaledoniaHeron: lol, I find myself 9seconding at the strangest times

    CaledoniaHeron: like when I driving

    CaledoniaHeron: criminy, what if I keep spacing out

    CaledoniaHeron: kapow!!!

    AdamsRubble: :)

    Sky Szimmer: but the 9 sec

    AdamsRubble: Of course it depends whether it makes you more aware of less Cal/font>

    Maxine Walden: when enveloped i do try to take the 9 sec as a chance to see beyond the envelopment

    Sky Szimmer: 'isn't just spacing out.

    AdamsRubble: or less

    Fael Illyar: I've recently been experimenting with doing explorations while actually doing things and not actually stopping the doing. Just removing attachments.

    Maxine Walden: it may feel like going into inner space, rather than spacing out

    Maxine Walden: how does that go, Fael?

    CaledoniaHeron: true Sky "spacing out" is a bad phrase for it, focus might be a better way to think of it

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, that more hits it for me too Fael

    Fael Illyar: I think it works. maybe not as deeply as really stopping everything but still.

    CaledoniaHeron: dropping or shedding attachments while doing something.....hence the driving example

    Faenik loves wells!

    Fael Illyar: I guess the first thing I did in that direction was meditating while walking :)


    We touch upon being lost in a moment:


    Sky Szimmer: when you asked Cal really losing yourself in the moment, is that something that is more towards PaB

    Fael Illyar: Reading a good book has been something that has had me really losing myself to it.

    CaledoniaHeron: well, I wondered about that Sky ....it may not apply in the strictest sense but it does have an element of openness and consciousness to it that is in the same ballpark

    Fael Illyar: I don't know how that has changed since starting PaB as I haven't read books that would cause that since.

    CaledoniaHeron: yes, a good book, for sure, or the garden as Maxine said

    Sky Szimmer: humm, cause i could lose myself like that but it seems like there is an element of unawareness to it

    Maxine Walden: I find this interesting dilemma: at times I find it useful to hold onto emotional experience to learn from it, but then of course at times, as we have been speaking, it is important to let it go, to shed the attachment. When to do which is an interesting thing for me at times

    CaledoniaHeron: interesting Sky, I can find myself extremely aware at those times

    Fael Illyar: can't you learn from it without holding to it tightly?

    CaledoniaHeron: that can be a dilemma Maxine....:)

    CaledoniaHeron: I like an analogy I read somewhere in the logs.....wear it like a shirt not a skin

    AdamsRubble: Maxine, I wonder if we can separate the emotion from the thinking about the emotion

    Fael Illyar: Pema likes to say that :)

    Sky Szimmer: but then, i am not sure it matters which you do... it is all good


    Should we hold on tight or let go?


    Maxine Walden: not always easy to hold it lightly, I find; rather at times it feels like it holds onto me.

    Sky Szimmer: that may not be good

    CaledoniaHeron: maybe the things that hold on to you tightly are the things that underneath you are holding on tightly to

    Sky Szimmer: when you can decide what to do with the emotion seems to me you have awarenss, but when the emotion has you, then not.

    Fael Illyar: I guess my own approach would be to stubbornly let it go until it doesn't feel like it's holding on to me.

    Maxine Walden: yes, I agree with what each of you is saying, just mentioning that sometimes I do not feel in charge of the emotion or the experience...and then just 'going with it' may be best

    CaledoniaHeron: lol wow!! high fives all around :)


    Sky tells us a bit about her explorations:


    Sky Szimmer: i have been exploring this issue a lot Maxine

    Sky Szimmer: and i have found it useful to see the archetypes that are responsible for the emotion

    Sky Szimmer: and just that seeing frees up the emotion

    Fael Illyar: archetypes?

    Maxine Walden: archetypes, such as 'anger' 'hatred' things like that?

    Sky Szimmer: yes. it is something that akin to characters of ourselves in play

    Faenik: why not?

    AdamsRubble: desires

    Maxine Walden: or dreads

    Sky Szimmer: no, ie. sometimes we take on the role of being a victim,

    CaledoniaHeron: a relative to stereotypes....

    Sky Szimmer: feeling like all things are being done to us and that we don't have any choices in that regard

    Sky Szimmer: no not stereotypes

    Fael Illyar: coping strategies?

    CaledoniaHeron: correct, a relative


    To be or not to be…a victim?:


    Sky Szimmer: there are certain emotions that come up as we play victim

    CaledoniaHeron: the stance of a victim, of things being done to you, is a tough role to choose your way out of

    Sky Szimmer: ie, feeling guilty, feeling victimized

    AdamsRubble: WHO is the victim?

    Maxine Walden: yes, when a victim we have lost touch with our capacities and agencies to do something about our situation...is that how you see it?

    Sky Szimmer: so then there is someone else that can see the victim in play, so then it takes you out of the victim role

    Sky Szimmer: check out pathwaytohappiness.com

    Sky Szimmer: i am just learning so I can't say too much about it.

    Maxine Walden: and allows you to see the victim as a role, not as a definition of 'who you are' perhaps

    Sky Szimmer: there are different archetypes that we selves adopt but we think it is really us

    Sky Szimmer: but then the one that sees the archetype frees us from being in the role

    CaledoniaHeron: or allows us to choose it perhaps

    AdamsRubble: or why we are playing that role

    Sky Szimmer: so when we are in the victim role, we really believe the story

    CaledoniaHeron: victims Loooove the story :)

    Sky Szimmer: then when that is seen, it frees us from the role and the emotion

    Sky Szimmer: so it is a way to not let the emotion rule us

    Fael Illyar: This one sounds very interesting actually :)

    Sky Szimmer: it has helped me tremendously

    Sky Szimmer: often times just saying it is a dream didn't help me to get me out of my emotions and they ruled me.

    Maxine Walden: I agree, gaining a thinking mind about the role helps to free us immensely

    Sky Szimmer: i didn't like that

    CaledoniaHeron: yes Maxine, agreed

    Adams Rubble agrees with Maxine

    Sky Szimmer: this strategy i am talking about is based on Ruiz Miguel's stuff

    Sky Szimmer: that guy that wrote 4 agreements

    Sky Szimmer: to me, it is very spiritually based

    Faenik: why not?

    Maxine Walden: sounds very interesting, Sky

    Sky Szimmer: so now, when i have an emotional rise to something, i can see which character of myself is in play

    CaledoniaHeron: I'm not familiar with it but it sounds like it may have value

    Sky Szimmer: then it takes me out of it. i don't get all wrapped up in it anymore

    Sky Szimmer: you also see others playing their characters and you don't take them too seriously either

    Fael Illyar: I think I've been doing that without realizing for years.

    Sky Szimmer: then you have compassion that they are stuck.

    CaledoniaHeron: I can line up with the basis of that...whatever gets you to "choice"

    Maxine Walden: for me it is whether I can think about the emotion or not, have choice, yes, Calagree. When I feel wrapped by the emotion, it is as if I have no mind at all and thus no choice

    Sky Szimmer: yes. this stuff puts all responsibility of your emotions back on yourself

    Sky Szimmer: and other people's stuff back to them

    CaledoniaHeron: it is absolutely about responsibility imo....(wah, kicking and screaming to the gates of paradise ) :)

    Fael Illyar: :)

    Sky Szimmer: Maxine, check it out. I think you will find it interesting.

    Maxine Walden: thanks, Sky.

    Sky Szimmer: given what you do.


    While trying to remember what Maxine does Adamsstarts talking about roles and relationships:


    AdamsRubble: I've been away. I think it is interesting to be thinking about roles which are more complicated forms of attachments....more developed

    CaledoniaHeron: yes Adams levels of relationships

    CaledoniaHeron: is that what you mean?

    AdamsRubble: yes

    AdamsRubble: I have been working on a more basic level; something new to consider

    Sky Szimmer: I think this is as basic as it gets.

    Sky Szimmer: just to really see what aspects of our conditioning is at play

    CaledoniaHeron: I'm not sure what you mean....like how you deal with anybody....at the least personal level?

    AdamsRubble: I wonder though whether much of the role playing comes back to anxieties

    Maxine Walden: anxieties about what, Adams?

    AdamsRubble: anxieties about how people feel about us, maybe

    CaledoniaHeron: lol, I gave up on that one

    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.

    Maxine Walden: which likely go to the base of how we feel about ourselves

    Sky Szimmer: i think much of the role playing comes from our upbringing and then coping strategies that we developed

    AdamsRubble: yes, that too :)

    CaledoniaHeron: well, mostly :).......who am I kidding?


    Where *did* the time go?We were so wrapped up even Maxine didn’t give her 5 minute warning:


    Maxine Walden: oh, gosh, I have to go; great conversation, see you all again soon

    Sky Szimmer: well, in this way i am talking about, you learned to separate other people's feelings about you from yourself

    CaledoniaHeron: oops, me too :)

    Sky Szimmer: me too.

    Fael Illyar: see you later Maxine :)

    AdamsRubble: the hours pass more quickly all the time. bye maxine :)

    Fael Illyar: See you later Cal:)

    AdamsRubble: bye Cal:)

    CaledoniaHeron: I will stumble through posting the log on the wiki

    CaledoniaHeron: How do I get rid of the timestamps?

    CaledoniaHeron: no clue

    CaledoniaHeron: one by one?

    Sky Szimmer: see ya.

    Fael Illyar: If you've got an editor that makes it easy, it's easy. Otherwise, one by one

    CaledoniaHeron: please say no

    AdamsRubble: bye Sky :)

    CaledoniaHeron: rats

    AdamsRubble: Best to set it before

    CaledoniaHeron: ok, bye sweet gals, see you soon :)

    AdamsRubble: :)

    Fael Illyar: Hopefully someone knows editor for windows that can do it easily





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