2008.07.12 19:00 - Play as Love

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    That evening, after Dakini’s zen session that always starts an hour before the evening Play as Being session, we had a kind of spontaneous party in which Dakini showed us a lot of slides from the early days of Play as Being, back in the tea house. Finally, some of us wound up riding a huge elephant, until it was 7 pm SLT, and it was time for our session. I walked over to the pavilion and found Stim sitting there.

    Pema Pera: Hi Stim!
    Stim Morane: Hi Pema
    Pema Pera: just had a nice walk on a huge elephant
    Pema Pera: after zen sitting here nearby, with Dakini’s group
    Stim Morane: courtesy of Storm?
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello
    Pema Pera: you can see the elephant walking behind you now
    Pema Pera: I think it was Dakini’s elephant
    Stim Morane: yes I did see it
    Stim Morane: Hi Pia
    Stim Morane: Hi Steve
    Pia Iger: Hi, Stim, Steve,
    Stim Morane: Hi Adams
    Pema Pera: Somebody painted some of the cushions? :) Looks nice!
    Adams Rubble: Hi Stim
    Adams Rubble: Hi everyone

    With Steve, Pia and Adam also walking in, there were five of us.

    stevenaia Michinaga: painted?
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi Adams
    Pema Pera: they used to be all yellow
    Pema Pera: now some of them are red
    Pema Pera: ah, kneeling!
    stevenaia Michinaga: I thought you were refering to my painted pants
    Pema Pera: haha, no
    Pema Pera: red must be kneeling and yellow sitting
    Pema Pera: judging from the five of us :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: I just visit, I don;t work here
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: Stim, Adams and I talked about “creator-God” aspects of Christianity and other religions
    Pema Pera: I know that is a topic you enjoy talking about
    Pema Pera: so to speak :)
    Pema Pera: Perhaps you can say a few words about the problems with such a picture?
    stevenaia Michinaga: please defin god-creator
    Adams Rubble: Pema, I have wondering about the time issue
    Stim Morane: I’m not sure I can. I have a lot of limitations when typing out such explanations
    Stim Morane: There are many issues.
    Stim Morane: Also, I’m afraid I’m rather worn out from the Ch’an retreat day today
    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, everything has to be one line or you cannot se the entire thought, we should ask the lindens about this
    Stim Morane: Adams, what were your own thoughts about the topic?
    Adams Rubble: I don’t think I am that attached to this issue. I was thinking out aloud (in my log) and trying to look for what being is NOT
    Stim Morane: I see. OK, good.
    Stim Morane: It’s presumably not that.
    Adams Rubble: and so I raised questions about what being is as what God is
    Adams Rubble: the Christian God
    Adams Rubble: It maybe was a bit of word play
    Stim Morane: A lot of this debate may be due to the level of sophistication of the proponents on each side.
    Adams Rubble: I donlt have a feel for Being yet
    Stim Morane: It probably isn’t fare to pit some advanced meditation view agains some basic Bible-literal view.
    Stim Morane: *fair
    Stim Morane: As for a feel for Being, yes, I understand.
    Stim Morane: I look forward to seeing how that sort of “feel” emerges in future PaB sessions, for different people.
    Pema Pera: Hi Rajah!
    Stim Morane: Hi Rajah!
    Adams Rubble: Hi Rajah
    Rajah Yalin: hi all!

    Rajah joined us, and I tried to repond to Adams, re: Being.

    Pema Pera: I think it’s great to start somewhere, with a reasonably well-defined, or at leat well-understood idea or image — that then makes it much easier to say what part does or does not seem to fit. So I’m really glad Adams mentioned the notion of “Creator-God” as a point of reference to talk from/around.
    Pema Pera: As for “Being”, my guess is that it may well take three years to sort-of get it, by talking about it here — we’ve had only three months so far :-)
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Pema Pera: but not 30 years
    Pema Pera: as it took me :>)
    Pema Pera: One order of magnitude is good enough for me
    Pema Pera: Hi Dakini!
    Rajah Yalin: hi Sigmund, Hi dakini
    Pema Pera: Hi SIgmund!
    Dakini Rhode: namaste
    Adams Rubble: Hi Dakini
    Rajah Yalin: Namaste
    Adams Rubble: Hi Sigmund
    Stim Morane: Hi Dakini, Sigmund!
    Dakini Rhode: hi!
    Adams Rubble: Well that makes me fell a little better about being in a muddle
    Pema Pera: :)
    Adams Rubble: feel
    Adams Rubble: fell into a muddle
    Adams Rubble: What has been worrying me the past day or so is that you said there is no past or future, Pema
    Sigmund Schwarz: Hello, all, forgive the delay.

    With Dakini and Sigmund walking in, there were now eight of us.

    Stim Morane: I don’t know how this discovery will come, but I am intrigued by the “play” angle, and hope it will indeed serve to facilitate things, as Pema suggests.
    Pema Pera: np, Sig!
    Sigmund Schwarz: in response.
    Sigmund Schwarz: smiling
    Pema Pera: Ah, Adams, no time! Stim will tell you all about it . . . . . :)
    Stim Morane: I am happy to say there is a past. Talking about “the future” is more problemaical
    Stim Morane: problematical
    Pema Pera: but in some sense there is no past no present no future, right?
    Stim Morane: “Being”, of course, may not be part of the same picture that includes “the past”.
    Stim Morane: Yes, time is different for a very awake presence.
    Stim Morane: But that doesn’t prevent us from granting some sort of status to the past etc. It’s just a matter of being clear what picture or domain we’re concerned with.
    Pema Pera: so the appearance of time is there, but it is only an appearance, and it that sense a kind of illusion?
    Stim Morane: It’s useful to have a past, for some things.
    Adams Rubble: We learn from the past
    Stim Morane: We could not develop as biological organisms, without a way of tracking “the past”
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Stim Morane: But for meditation, and the values served by it, the past plays a role up to a point, and then beyond that it is best opened up.
    Stim Morane: There is no future in the kind of opening emphasized by advanced meditation, but short of that, even “the future” fits for some purposes.
    Stim Morane: But “Being”, no. No time.
    Stim Morane: Does this seem like a threat, or only a puzzle?
    Adams Rubble: I think a puzzle, especially if the time issue is in this narower sense
    Stim Morane: Yes, that’s understandable.
    Adams Rubble: Like the ant in Aesop’s fable we plan for the furure
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Stim Morane: That’s what I meant by emphasizing the context.
    Stim Morane: Sometimes it fits, sometimes not.
    Adams Rubble: I can understand the wisdom of us focusing on being alive at this moment
    Stim Morane: Yes. Usually a great starting point.
    Adams Rubble: of just being alive
    Stim Morane: Sure.
    Adams Rubble: or
    Adams Rubble: no moment

    Fascinating, these different angles on time!

    Pema Pera: but do we have a choice — to eiter identify with ourselves as biological creatures, in a more relative way, or to drop that identification, see through it (without denying its presence as an appearance) and in that way to drop time?
    Stim Morane: Yes, we can find our lives to be more than the biological part, and associated time.
    Adams Rubble: we still need to care for ourselves
    Adams Rubble: and our love ones
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Adams Rubble: so we can think about Being
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stim Morane: “Being” may relate to things we usually don’t address, or value.
    Adams Rubble: ?
    Stim Morane: I see a question, but what is it? Can you say a bit?
    Adams Rubble: I think it is what things?
    Adams Rubble: what kind of things?
    Stim Morane: That may be as hard to say as it is to define or explain Being itself.
    Stim Morane: I think it’s better to start where things are more concretely felt. But I don’t pretend to know how PaBb should go.
    Pema Pera: about play: perhaps we can say: biological creatures play, as young, to prepare for adult life; we play here to prepare for a difficult way of “growing up”, beyond identification with being biological creatures, beyond time.
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Adams Rubble: that is a nice analogy
    Adams Rubble: I see the value of childhood play better, possibly because I know what it is like to be an adult?
    Stim Morane: As long as a person is following something that’s directly felt, for her, one can be fairly confident that something revealing will emerge.
    Stim Morane: Oh, an interesting comment, Adams. I am not sure.
    Stim Morane: An adult with a modern development view can certainly see the value of play in one way.
    Stim Morane: “developmental view”
    Stim Morane: But there’s still the issue of what is inside the play itself, actually playing.
    Adams Rubble: Now that I think about it, some of the play is just play
    Stim Morane: This is more like what matters most in meditation practice.
    Stim Morane: Yes.
    Stim Morane: We modern people tend to discount the “directly perceived” part.
    Pema Pera: while a child is playing, mother watches.
    Stim Morane: I think this is unfortunate.
    Pema Pera: while we play, Being watches.
    Stim Morane: Yes, but Mother in this case watches from the inside, not from an external, and somewhat abstract vantage point.
    Pema Pera: yes, not creator, not ruler
    Pema Pera: loving yes, but in a very unsual (for us) way
    Pema Pera: abstract, but also the most concrete
    Stim Morane: Yes. I am guessing that Pema wants to say that when we play, we are joining into Being’s nature, It’s play.
    Adams Rubble: Stim, I missed the connection between play and meditation
    Stim Morane: its
    Stim Morane: Both play and meditation are educative, and involve exercising capacities, and going beyond the strictures of the ordinary self.
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Pema Pera: in Play as Being, we can become “un-born again” :-)

    I had a brief vision of PaB car stickers, un-like the “born-again” stickers . . . :)

    Stim Morane: There may not be much difference … if we’re playing well.
    Stim Morane: Of course a lot of meditation these days is just a slog.
    Stim Morane: But that’s “bad meditation”.
    Adams Rubble raises an eyebrow
    Stim Morane: I can’t raise an eyebrow back …
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: This is helpful
    Stim Morane: Play is exploratory.
    Stim Morane: And it involves feedback.
    Dakini Rhode: slog 2 : to plod (one’s way) perseveringly especially against difficulty intransitive verb
    Stim Morane: But playing as Being is in some ways a special case. I’m happy that Pema is going to handle that one.
    Stim Morane: Yes, plodding.
    Stim Morane: No need for that.
    Adams Rubble: Thanks :)
    Dakini Rhode: just checked my dictionary :)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: Pema, could you maybe give us an example of playing here (and now my words) orffering insight to Being
    Pema Pera: well, it starts with what Stim said:
    Pema Pera: a plodding attitude confirms the wrong notion that we are needy creatures, lacking something (enlightenment?)
    Adams Rubble: OK
    Pema Pera: we don’t want that — but we also don’t want to brag that we are already there so to speak
    Pema Pera: that we see it
    Pema Pera: many people these days do that
    Pema Pera: click dzogchen on google
    Pema Pera: and you’ll see many often rather young people
    Pema Pera: proclaiming the truth
    Pema Pera: sad
    Pema Pera: and that of course is the reason that it was kept secret in the past
    Pema Pera: not to have it misused by showing it too early
    Pema Pera: before someone was ripe
    Pema Pera: but . . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . . we live in an age of openness
    Pema Pera: to other way around it!
    Pema Pera: so now what?
    Pema Pera: my suggestion is : play
    Pema Pera: least likely to misuse advanced teachings
    Pema Pera: so as for an example:
    Pema Pera: everything we do here!
    Pema Pera: Being is everything
    Pema Pera: the “AM” in I am in I am this or that in every moment
    Pema Pera: I could go on . . . . :)
    Pema Pera: does that make some sense?
    Adams Rubble: yes, it follows
    Pema Pera: Dakini had a wonderful quote in her blog, a few days ago:
    Adams Rubble: very interesting point about why things were kept secret
    Pema Pera: within our bewildered minds is innate wisdom, there to be discovered if we look

    This was a quote that Dakini had taken from a lecture from Khenchen Thrangu Rinpoche, a Tibetan teacher.

    Adams Rubble: yes
    Pema Pera: it really IS that simple
    Pema Pera: REALLY
    Pema Pera: but we do have to look . . . .
    Pema Pera: . . . and know what real looking is . . . .
    Pema Pera: couldn’t be further from plodding
    Pema Pera: doesn’t take time ! ! !
    Pema Pera: An hour ago, Dakini commented on the energy here today — I can feel it here as well as during our zen sitting
    Pema Pera: how interesting to have each session here being so different, isn’t it?
    Adams Rubble: yes it is
    Rajah Yalin: yea
    Stim Morane: I’m afraid I can’t contribute much energy at the moment. I’m pretty worn out from the day.
    Adams Rubble thinks Dtim contributed quite a bit
    Adams Rubble: Stim
    Dakini Rhode: well wisdome then, Stim :)
    Dakini Rhode: without the e
    Dakini Rhode: one reaction i have, Pema, is that if it is really so simple, how do we know all these young people on the internet don’t get it?
    Pema Pera: Two answers, Dakini
    Pema Pera: (and certainly I wouldn’t say that “all” those don’t get it)
    Pema Pera: 1. we can never know for sure
    Pema Pera: 2. we can have a pretty good sense — if we didn’t have that, it would be all a wash
    Pema Pera: A new age way of talking, btw, can be very inspiring for many people — but has the risk of becoming a wash quickly — and dzogchen is the furthest away from a wash
    Pema Pera: Hmmmm, how to say
    Pema Pera: a smell or arrogance is often a good first test
    Pema Pera: humility is the sign of a great teacher
    Pema Pera: what would you say, Dakini?
    Dakini Rhode: i didn’t google dzogchen on the internet
    Dakini Rhode: so not sure
    Dakini Rhode: i’m also left with a question about how “play” um… need to check the chat log
    Pema Pera: but we all know examples of people (often young) who got a glimpse of something, and then are over excited to share with others, often with very good intentions, but you can see that they are still missing key elements . . .
    Pema Pera: in any field
    Pema Pera: sports, science, spirituality
    Pema Pera: and with a paradoxial topic
    Pema Pera: like zen
    Adams Rubble: “true believers”
    Pema Pera: or dzogchen
    Pema Pera: they sound just like the real thing
    Pema Pera: harder to recognize

    My hope is that “play” may help here.

    Dakini Rhode: oh how play makes us less likely to misuse advanced teachings
    Pema Pera: by taking ourselves less seriously
    Pema Pera: less danger of “Oh, now I got it!”
    Dakini Rhode: i thought that’s what you meant
    Dakini Rhode: ok
    Pema Pera: “now I can tell everyone else!”
    Pema Pera: humor and humility are good together
    Pema Pera: either one can be rather unpleasant by itsefl
    Pema Pera: btw, 3. perhaps the best answer to your question, Dakini, is that even though I’m not that young anymore, I still see clearly my own tendency to fall into the trap of telling others what zen/dzogchen/etc is all about . . . and yet, I don’t want to remain silent either, putting my light under a bushel . . . play is my emergency escape from that koan!
    Dakini Rhode: i have to hope that even a relatively unenlightened person can still be of benefit - maybe by quoting truth etc. - so maybe it’s not such a bad thing that dzogchen is all over the internet, because it points to a genuine search for truth and people might be inspired to look deeper for the real stuff
    Stim Morane: It all works out in the longer run, perhaps.
    Dakini Rhode: it
    Dakini Rhode: i tried to come up with an analogy but just erased it
    Dakini Rhode: but
    Dakini Rhode: you can get insight from the most unusual places
    Dakini Rhode: so who knows?
    Pema Pera: yes, to the extent that it helps, for sure! Hard to see in the shorter run; some of it can set people back . . . but even that can later turn out well, so who is to say?
    Pema Pera: but by itself that should not be a reason to not care about quality at all . . .
    Stim Morane: On a somewhat different subject, have people here in PaB been making PaB-like experiments in daily life? How, for instance, are the little 9-sec sessions going?
    Dakini Rhode: very well!

    Steve then connected Being with Love.

    stevenaia Michinaga: I don;t know if this is helpful….If i may, a personal analogy, equating discovering Being discovery to discovering love, we all have the capacity to love and once we find it within ourselves, we find our capacity to love only grows…understanding Being is like that, when you find it you understand it more and more as the capacity to understand it was always there, I realize they are two different things, yet parallel in the journey
    Stim Morane: Yes
    Stim Morane: I’m not even sure they are two diff things. I think they are really exactly the same.
    Pema Pera: that’s wonderful, Steve, moving too!
    Stim Morane: Of course there are different types and levels of love.
    Stim Morane: But the same can be said of “being”.
    Pema Pera: yes, Love = Being
    Stim Morane: Maybe I’ll set up a little place next door and talk about “love”.
    Pema Pera: Play as Love :) . . .
    Pema Pera: may attract more people!
    Dakini Rhode: yes
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Stim Morane: Oh, then I won’t.
    Dakini Rhode: haha
    Pema Pera: PaL sounds good too
    Stim Morane: True.
    Pia Iger: then more ppl would claim they already got it!
    Adams Rubble: You could meet at 9,3,9,3
    stevenaia Michinaga: something like that
    Dakini Rhode: lol
    Stim Morane: I admit “Being” sounds rather abstract.
    Pema Pera thinks about financial incentives: Play as yogi, Play as Love: PayPal
    stevenaia Michinaga: a franchise?
    Stim Morane: Uh oh.
    Adams Rubble: PlayPal
    Dakini Rhode: just call it Tantra and you’ll get hordes
    Stim Morane: Yes, no.
    Pema Pera: :)
    Rajah Yalin: Rajah Yalin in the title somewhere..
    Rajah Yalin: just kiddin :P
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pema Pera: hehe
    Pema Pera: Play as Yahlin!
    Rajah Yalin: i did want to put a Tai Chi class into SL a while back but how to implement it seemed difficult
    Dakini Rhode: have you see the tai chi poseballs?
    Stim Morane: Yes. Let me know if you have any insights about implementing that, Rajah!
    Stim Morane: poseballs?
    Dakini Rhode: and that Sensei Klar has tai chi in a can
    Rajah Yalin: I’ve seen the mats
    Rajah Yalin: but I geuss thats obvious since they’re just down the yard hehe
    Dakini Rhode: hehe
    Dakini Rhode: oh yeah
    Dakini Rhode: yes Stim, (poseballs) there are animations which will animate your avatar

    Time for Adams to leave.

    Adams Rubble: I must go get some sleep (Yawn). Thank you Stim and Pema especially and to everybody else too. Goodnight :)
    Dakini Rhode: similar to the sitting animation we’re all using now
    Rajah Yalin: goodnight Adams
    Rajah Yalin: Namaste
    Dakini Rhode: nite, Adams
    Adams Rubble: namaste
    Pema Pera: bye Adams!
    Pema Pera: Stim, I can take care of the chat log this time
    Pema Pera: perhaps next time, at your 1 pm session when I’m sleeping, you can try to put up the chatlog on the wiki directly
    Dakini Rhode: lol someone is riding my elephant
    Pema Pera: Fael has made and honed a great primer
    Stim Morane: OK, thanks. I’ve been having a tech problem here
    Pema Pera: right on the wiki, with instructions
    Pema Pera: elephant?
    Stim Morane: My keyboard has been locking up.
    Dakini Rhode: i tried to put my first log on the wiki today, and the wiki was down for maintenance
    Rajah Yalin: the wiki has been down when I go to see it
    Dakini Rhode: yes, Rajah
    Rajah Yalin: jinx
    Dakini Rhode: hope its back up soon
    Pema Pera: still down — just saw it now, yes
    Rajah Yalin: hi Bill
    Stim Morane: Hi Bill
    Pema Pera: Hi Solo!
    Solobill Laville: Hi all!
    Dakini Rhode: hi Bill
    Sigmund Schwarz: Hello, Bill.

    Solobill arrived. Earlier he had been the first to ride the big elephant.

    Pema Pera: did you arrive by elephant again?
    Solobill Laville: I couldn’t get it to fly this time! i wanted too… :(
    Dakini Rhode: aw
    Solobill Laville: sleepy pachyderm I guess!
    Dakini Rhode: watch out for the red tape, my elephant got stuck in it
    Solobill Laville: uh…
    Solobill Laville: :)
    Pema Pera: I have to take off now, great seeing you all, and wonderful to share this conversation! Thank you, especially, Steve, for the Love = Being hint !
    Sigmund Schwarz: Good seeing you again, Pema.
    Stim Morane: Yes, I should leave too. Goodbye to all of you!
    Dakini Rhode: goodnight and be well
    Solobill Laville: bye you two
    Pia Iger: gnite, all
    Solobill Laville: Bye, Pia
    stevenaia Michinaga: you are welcome
    Sigmund Schwarz: Good by for now, Stim

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