2008.07.19 13:00 - Pause and see as being

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    The guardian for the meeting was Dakini Rhode.  The comments are Dakini's.

    Adams, Dakini, Fael, Neela, Pia, Quilty, and Resting Thor enjoyed our teatime conversation

    I was late to the 1PM session.  SL was acting up, and I was having trouble dressing...

    Cannot complete attachment. An attachment is pending for that spot.

    Finally I settled on a safe pants outfit and arrived late, to fanfare...!  I'm thankful this group is so forgiving...

    MystiTool HUD 1.0.23: Entering chat range: Quilty Bookmite (18m), Fael Illyar (18m), Pia Iger (19m), Adams Rubble (19m), Neela Blaisdale (19m)
    Quilty Bookmite: I really don't mind. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: Here she comes!
    Adams Rubble: hi Dakini :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello Dakini
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Dakini
    Adams Rubble: let the trumpets sound
    Dakini Rhode: hi, so sorry i'm late
    Neela Blaisdale: np
    Dakini Rhode: i'm surprised i wasn't in the water just then....
    Adams Rubble: np
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: For all the identity thieves out there, I'll save you the bother. I don't use my anniversary date as a password. :-)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Too much green tea, Dakini? :-)
    Dakini Rhode: hi Fael, Adams, Neela, Pia, and Quilty :)
    Pia Iger: Hi, Dakini
    Faenik: indeed?
    Fael Illyar: Hi Dakini :)
    Dakini Rhode: s l o w l y rezzing :)
    Adams Rubble: SL is slow for me today :)
    Dakini Rhode: i've had that symptom myself today :)
    Faenik: indeed?
    Quilty Bookmite: It's RL that's slow for me. :-)
    Fael Illyar: it's weekend :)
    Tea Cup whispers: Tea Time!
    Dakini Rhode: didn't like sitting across from everyone :P
    Pia Iger: we look like 5 students.
    Dakini Rhode: Pia, you look the same :)
    Adams Rubble thinks we make a pretty picture here close together
    Dakini Rhode: I can't say that about everyone else...
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Dakini Rhode: yes, a pretty picture
    Dakini Rhode: (hint?)
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Dakini Rhode: i still have a little grey in my viewer...
    Faenik: indeed?
    Dakini Rhode: indeed, Faenik :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Wow
    Dakini Rhode: slowness
    Fael Illyar: Quite slow rezzing then
    Adams Rubble: whoa. could crash doing that
    Dakini Rhode: Neela's skirt texture seems the last holdout :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Tea?
    Quilty Bookmite: My comments are arriving rather late. how strange.
    Adams Rubble: That has happened to me the last few days
    Quilty Bookmite: Seems to have resolved itself.
    Dakini Rhode: packet lag :P
    Adams Rubble: Ah, a phrse for everything :)
    Adams Rubble: phrase
    Quilty Bookmite: Keeps your packets nice and warm. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Dakini Rhode: haha got me laughing
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Pia Iger: I have not had much lag issue from I started SL
    Adams Rubble: Good equipment Pia :)
    Dakini Rhode: i covet your connection, Pia :)
    Pia Iger: maybe I am a light traveler.
    Adams Rubble carries much baggage
    Faenik: ah :)
    Dakini Rhode cannot travel without a hud
    Neela Blaisdale: Sorry just looking for my tea
    Quilty Bookmite: I made a few tweeks to my settings. Seemed to speed things up a little.
    Adams Rubble hopes Dakini doesn't lose her hud
    Dakini Rhode: i have my settings at the lowest possible, i think, but i dont have a gaming computer, this was designed for business
    Dakini Rhode: lol Adams
    Quilty Bookmite: So was mine. It's a laptop, a couple of years old now. :-)
    Neela Blaisdale: Mine finally dies 2 days ago,
    Dakini Rhode: well, anyone who can rez Neela's skirt is welcome to take today's snap
    Adams Rubble: I did already...almost crashed in process :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Fortunately, SL is forbidden to me when I am working. Can;t connect.
    Quilty Bookmite: Can do.
    Neela Blaisdale: Me too
    Dakini Rhode thanks Adams for the sacrifice

    Adams prodded us to get on topic.

    Adams Rubble: Should we be discussing Pema's experiment (Adams says with some trepidation)
    Quilty Bookmite: Got it.
    Dakini Rhode: haha I guess so, Adams :)
    Pia Iger: I feel it is natural step from 9 sec
    Neela Blaisdale: I find it hard to remember to try every hour
    Adams Rubble: I did three so far which is funnt because I have no idea what Being is
    Adams Rubble: funny
    Dakini Rhode shares Adams' bewilderment
    Pia Iger: I have been doing my 9sec like that
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Neela Blaisdale: As we all don't
    Dakini Rhode: perhaps it's the language throws us off
    Adams Rubble: Interesting Pia
    Dakini Rhode: i think i have, too, Pia
    Pia Iger: first 3-4 sec to see my surroundings,
    Dakini Rhode: expansion of the field...
    Dakini Rhode: panoramic vision...
    Pia Iger: then rest time see the world and myself as if from the eyes of Being (God, or Budda)
    Dakini Rhode: different words i would use...
    Adams Rubble: That is great Pia and Dakini :)
    Adams Rubble: I havn't done anything like that before today
    Dakini Rhode: when asked to "play as being" that was all i could come up with
    Pia Iger: agree, Dakini
    Dakini Rhode: but that's interesting, so maybe this new explanation of the practice will get us more onto the same page...
    Adams Rubble: Yes
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Neela Blaisdale: :):)
    Pia Iger: are you yelling at Pema??
    Adams Rubble: And you have been doing this all along?
    Faenik loves wells!
    Dakini Rhode: i don't know why i yelled that, actually... certainly not directed at PEMA


    Neela Blaisdale: I find it similar to how it feels doing walking meditation and trying to be mindful throughout
    Adams Rubble: I would be interested to know whether you have experienced changes in your seeing
    Neela Blaisdale: sort of heightened sensory experience
    Adams Rubble: Hi Thor
    Resting Thor: hi all :)
    Dakini Rhode: oh what just dropped down from heaven
    Neela Blaisdale: sometimes I notice more things or colors seem brighter

    Rezzing Thor chose to sit on the same cushion Adams already occupied

    Fael Illyar: Hi Resting
    Neela Blaisdale: Hello Thor
    Neela Blaisdale: Thor and Adams are one
    Resting Thor: i'm still rezzing
    Adams Rubble: I would be interested to know what Pia and Dakini have experienced as far as changes in seeing
    Dakini Rhode: lol Thor there's an empty spot next to me...
    Quilty Bookmite: thor you are sitting on Adams. :-)
    Dakini Rhode: or Quilty...
    Resting Thor: haha
    Adams Rubble: Hey Thor!
    Dakini Rhode: lol
    Dakini Rhode: slow rezzin day...
    Resting Thor: sorry adams
    Resting Thor: :(
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble thinks she will not get an answer to her question
    Pia Iger: thinking how to say.
    Dakini Rhode: backing up...
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't know what I can say. I have been practicing meditation for about 12 years. Things don;t change very much for me.

    Repeating Adams' question...

    Dakini Rhode: Adams Rubble: I would be interested to know what Pia and Dakini have experienced as far as changes in seeing
    Fael Illyar: I think since starting PaB, the small voice I still had judging things has gone rather silent.
    Pia Iger: I feel the fundamental change of the sense of myself
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Pia Iger: seems just learning the life lesson #1
    Adams Rubble: does that come from the way you have been doing the nine seconds or from the sessions Pia?
    Fael Illyar: I haven't felt much of a change my sense of self but I'm feeling quite abit more peaceful.
    Pia Iger: combined.
    Fael Illyar: less affected by ebbs and flows.
    Adams Rubble: I am asking because the exercise seems to be rather self contained to me
    Pia Iger: both are important to me.
    Dakini Rhode: what do you mean by self contained, Adams?
    Adams Rubble: I other words that it would give similar results
    Adams Rubble: In
    Dakini Rhode: that's interesting, because i've thought all along we might be all doing something slightly different, given the open nature of the instruction
    Pia Iger: In the session we can get inspiration. but the real change of sense comes from your RL practice and realization.
    Adams Rubble: I have been doing something different, Dakini
    Faenik: ah :)
    Dakini Rhode: I've had quite a bit of prior experience with meditation, so that I saw PaB as a reminder of my regular practice
    Adams Rubble: I am new to meditation as meditation
    Dakini Rhode: that may be a better vantage point from which to experience PaB fresh, Adams
    Adams Rubble: This exercise is new to me today

    Reminders to take a pause...

    Fael Illyar: the bells every 15 minutes serve as a useful reset, pause during which I can remember other things I could be doing
    Quilty Bookmite gave you Snapshot : The Pavilion for Play as Being, Rieul (177, 150, 75).
    Adams Rubble: Yes fael, mine is closer to that
    Neela Blaisdale: What do you do in RL to remind yourself?
    Adams Rubble is just intrigued that people have been doing this exercise all along
    Adams Rubble: Neela, I use a clock sometimes
    Adams Rubble: the mindfulness clock
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Resting Thor: i wear a bracelet to help reminde me to be mindful :)
    Pia Iger: nice, REsting

    Resting Thor let go his teacup and exhibited the floating meditation effect along with the flexi prims respond to gravity effect - looking like he was held up by his heavily starched robes, perhaps?

    Pia Iger: Resting has the dry cleaner as Dakini:)
    Dakini Rhode: i formerly used transitions... like changing from one activity to another...for example, the phone rings: pause
    Dakini Rhode: what?
    Dakini Rhode: i'm a dry cleaner?
    Dakini Rhode: lol
    Pia Iger: using heavy starch on the robe:)
    Dakini Rhode: lol
    Neela Blaisdale: so the transitions would be a reminder to pratice the 9 sec?
    Quilty Bookmite: the _same_ dry cleaner?
    Dakini Rhode: prior to hearing about PaB, i called it a "mindfulness pause"
    Dakini Rhode: or just a "pause"
    Pia Iger: I heard of "Sacred Pause"
    Dakini Rhode: when Pema explained PaB to me, it sounded like essentially the same idea
    Dakini Rhode: School of Practical Philosophy, Pia?
    Pia Iger: no, I read from notecard got at your Zazen
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Dakini Rhode: oh :)
    Dakini Rhode wonders what all her notecards say...
    Pia Iger: good cards.
    Adams Rubble: It is intersting too to hear of diffeent ways to become aware
    Neela Blaisdale: yes
    Resting Thor: i like to pause to set my intention for the next activity... seed planting
    Adams Rubble: yes, good cards, there and at tara
    Dakini Rhode: yes, very good materials in there, thanks to Isen :)

    For some reason when Quilty let go his teacup instead of the floating meditation he got the stuck arms effect...

    Quilty Bookmite: Rigor mortis seems to have set in in my arms. :-)
    Adams Rubble: Is there a doctor in the house?
    Pia Iger: good point, Resting.
    Dakini Rhode: Quilty, try Stop all Animations
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Dakini Rhode: touch that thing
    Faenik loves wells!
    Quilty Bookmite: Thanks.
    Dakini Rhode: yw :)

    Neela brought up a point Pia had made in another session about RL practice... which got us talking about realizations we had experienced.

    Neela Blaisdale: I'm curious do you agree with Pia about change only happening in RL?
    Neela Blaisdale: Hi Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: Tea drinking is so dangerous!
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Adams Rubble doesn't understand Neela's question
    Dakini Rhode: could you say more about your question, Neela?
    Resting Thor: it would have to apply to both RL and SL. i think Pia meant RL vs. meditation itself?
    Neela Blaisdale: Pia said that the real sense of change has to come from Rl? Is that right Pia? So I was curious about what others thought about that?
    Pia Iger: can I explain?
    Neela Blaisdale: please
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Dakini Rhode: please :)
    Pia Iger: the talking sessions here is for inspiration and support.
    Pia Iger: The real change needs to come from your RL practice, the realization you will sense in RL.
    Dakini Rhode: what is it that is changing, and where is it?
    Faenik: indeed?
    Pia Iger: to me , the change is my view of life and myself.
    Pia Iger: It comes from my senses, my heart.
    Pia Iger: they surface from inside. while before they were ignored
    Adams Rubble: I think that bthose who of us who are starting this kind of cold are experiencing a whirlwind of change. Whether it will stick is still unknown, but a whole new outlook on things
    Dakini Rhode: wow, good way to express it, Adams
    Dakini Rhode: and thank you, Pia
    Dakini Rhode: welcome to the path...
    Neela Blaisdale: Yes ty both. for me some of the things I'm experiencing here lead me to certain questions in RL that are new
    Pia Iger: I can share more specifically.
    Quilty Bookmite: Please do.
    Pia Iger: yesterday, I realize "I have so long ignore the "divine" nature of myself" during a 9 sec
    Dakini Rhode: wow
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Dakini Rhode: maybe we could share some of our 9-sec insights?
    Pia Iger: (I am not saying I am not human, but I feel I am more than the human the culture has told me)
    Dakini Rhode: yes indeed, Pia
    Faenik: indeed?
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
    Dakini Rhode: have you taken that as something to explore further?
    Pia Iger: yes, that is why I think what Pema said today is a natural stepforward to me
    Dakini Rhode: could anyone repeat what Pema said today?
    Dakini Rhode: (in a nutshell?)
    Adams Rubble looks at her toes
    Pia Iger: 1. see the world as human 2. see the world as Being
    Quilty Bookmite: Pia, do you see Being as what you see in yourself which is "divine"?>
    Pia Iger: yes. something beyond my normal status.
    Quilty Bookmite: nods
    Neela Blaisdale: Iwhen you say beyond your normal satus do you think it is always there and its your seeing that is different?
    Pia Iger: yes. It is there. we did not see it.
    Dakini Rhode: waiting for this very long thing that Thor is typing....

    Resting Thor appeared to be typing for a long time, and the wait was worth it, as he aptly summarized the value of pausing...

    Resting Thor: our normal status is the result of our normal perception and conceptualization. pausing changes our normal process of perception and conceptualization
    Neela Blaisdale: Yes
    Pia Iger: nods
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Dakini Rhode: don't know what to say but to agree, Thor
    Resting Thor: sorry stating the obvious :)
    Dakini Rhode: and very well :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I think Pia has had some very useful insight. Unfortunately I must go. :-(
    Dakini Rhode: maybe not so obvious, either :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Goodnight all.

    We discuss conceptualization

    Adams Rubble: Yes, I am glad the conceptualization ihas been added to the discussion
    Dakini Rhode: nite, Quilty :)
    Resting Thor: gnight quilty
    Fael Illyar: See you later Quilty :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Goodnight Quilty
    Pia Iger: Nite!
    Adams Rubble: Bye Quilty
    Fael Illyar: Good night :)
    Quilty Bookmite is Offline
    Resting Thor: thought i was levitating there for a mintue :))
    Adams Rubble: I think my experience has been weighted to the conceptualization rather than the perception
    Dakini Rhode: you were :)
    Neela Blaisdale: ;)
    Dakini Rhode: i do believe that's the "normal" human condition we find ourselves in, Adams, without some training to perceive differently
    Resting Thor: so in that moment of awareness we can decide how to reconceptualize or try not to conceptualize either or both
    Neela Blaisdale: But in that moment we have a choice
    Fael Illyar is wondering if she's done anything more than remove the remains of her conceptualization of the world and whether or not any remain.
    Faenik: indeed?
    Resting Thor: that would be a very big thing :)
    Adams Rubble thinks Fael does alot of conceptualization
    Fael Illyar: That's necessary to explain things with words
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Fael Illyar: but I rarely do it for myself.
    Dakini Rhode: it seems pretty well necessary to get about on this plane :)
    Resting Thor: good point about what is a conceptualization
    Fael Illyar: strangely, I find talking to people help me in understanding some things.
    Adams Rubble: I think conceptualization is more than words although we find ourselves trying to find the words to express
    Fael Illyar: I realize things as I write my own text :)
    Adams Rubble: Yes, me too
    Pia Iger: writing is great tool.
    Dakini Rhode: what did you realize just now, Fael?
    Fael Illyar: I was wondering if I still do conceptualization myself... then I said rarely
    Fael Illyar: that doesn't feel wrong.
    Dakini Rhode: what does the world seem like from a nonconceptual POV?
    Resting Thor: i automatically impute behavior upon things i perceive a lot
    Fael Illyar: impute?
    Resting Thor: i expect a car door to open when i pull on it
    Resting Thor: i expect a pizza to taste a certain way
    Resting Thor: impute is wrong word
    Resting Thor: hard to verbalize isn't it :)
    Fael Illyar: you have expectations of things.
    Resting Thor: so i have a concept of a pizza and a car when i interact with them
    Resting Thor: normal ones
    Resting Thor: the notion that you and your world might be divine implies you have adifferent expecations
    Neela Blaisdale: Hard to tell what is :rea;: about them and what is concept
    Resting Thor: yeah
    Adams Rubble: Just to clarify a bit, does that differ from expecting to be alive the next day when one goes to sleep?
    Fael Illyar: real is another concept :)
    Neela Blaisdale: real meaning "real"
    Resting Thor: good point adams :)
    Neela Blaisdale: :)
    Resting Thor: a perception of existing this moment does not mean we should expect to exist the next?
    Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
    Adams Rubble: but we expect a car door to open (mine rcently didn't)
    Dakini Rhode: i think pausing, or whatever we do to change our perspective, allows us to see our conceptualization, to question it, and possibly to see things fresh
    Pia Iger: yes.
    Neela Blaisdale: good summary Dakini
    Resting Thor: and to see, as adams pointed out, that concepts are not necessary accurate
    Neela Blaisdale: yes
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Dakini Rhode: and opening to allow other ways of perceiving and (jinx, Thor)
    Fael Illyar realized she can tell the difference between having expectations and not having them.
    Dakini Rhode: let new, fresh, and other experiences to arise
    Dakini Rhode: which might have been wholy masked by our expectations about how "reality" is
    Dakini Rhode: wholly?
    Dakini Rhode: wholey?
    Pia Iger: true.
    Neela Blaisdale: :):)
    Adams Rubble: I must go to RL. This has been a wonderful session and I hate to go. Bye :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Bye Adams
    Dakini Rhode: sorry to see you go, Adams
    Fael Illyar: Bye Adams :)
    Resting Thor: it has been an honor adams

    I struggled to verbalize some realization I'd had about mind.

    Dakini Rhode: i've had experiences that invalidated my former concepts of mind
    Dakini Rhode: that is, concepts that mind is somehow localized in this body
    Neela Blaisdale: Can you share some Dakini?
    Dakini Rhode: hmmm
    Dakini Rhode: did you ever have a close connection with another person
    Dakini Rhode: and knew what that person was thinking or felt their presence when they were phyically located very far from you??
    Dakini Rhode: physically
    Pia Iger: telepathy?
    Dakini Rhode: it's an experience, i don't have a name for it
    Dakini Rhode: do you, Thor?
    Neela Blaisdale: Yes maybe a few
    Dakini Rhode: I think that minds are not limited by space or location in space
    Fael Illyar: I guess that'd go under the term telepathy normally.
    Dakini Rhode: of course that's my concept
    Neela Blaisdale: yes
    Resting Thor: i don't have a name for it but certainly people report telepathy often
    Resting Thor: and shared emotional responses as well
    Neela Blaisdale: I recently had an extremely vivid dream about soeone I hadn't seen in over mos, ran into her the next day
    Resting Thor: haha great
    Neela Blaisdale: i mean 6 mos
    Resting Thor: i think of people and they call me on the phone the next moment often
    Neela Blaisdale: Must go back to Rl. This has been a wonderful discussion. TY Dakini. See you all soon
    Pia Iger: bye, Neela
    Resting Thor: you had more limited expectation about the minds power?
    Fael Illyar: I got the feeling I should head to bed now. Good night :)
    Dakini Rhode: nite, Fael :)
    Pia Iger: nite, Fael.
    Resting Thor: gnight Fael :)
    Neela Blaisdale: Good bye everyone
    Dakini Rhode: i think there is a consensus definition of mind as being located in this body
    Resting Thor: Good night
    Dakini Rhode: so "my" mind is in "my" body
    Resting Thor: or you body is in your mind
    Resting Thor: ?
    Resting Thor: your
    Dakini Rhode: and "your" mind is in "your" body, etc....
    Dakini Rhode: well i'm speaking of normal, consensus view of mind...
    Resting Thor: or i am in your mind haha
    Dakini Rhode: haha or you are on my mind
    Resting Thor: funny
    Dakini Rhode: i think we use those phrases, normally, but that doesn
    Dakini Rhode: t change our view of where we think the mind is located
    Dakini Rhode: am i all wet here?
    Dakini Rhode: this may not be a "normal" group...
    Resting Thor: i think you describe the normal western scientific view
    Dakini Rhode: i was trying to, i think
    Dakini Rhode: and the view i was taught
    Dakini Rhode: Pia, does that relate to your question?
    Pia Iger: so what invalidated this concept of mind?

    I hope we get back to Pia's question

    Dakini Rhode: Thor, may i ask, is your skin very black in color?
    Resting Thor: i seem to have black skin today
    Pia Iger: and blue eyes
    Resting Thor: i'm feeling self conscious
    Dakini Rhode: sorry, i was staring ;(
    Resting Thor: haha
    Resting Thor: they're just pixels
    Pia Iger: It does show where AV is staring.
    Dakini Rhode: Fred recently had a skin texture issue, and his face appeared as completely black
    Pia Iger: I thought it was beard issue
    Dakini Rhode: i see that if I stare, i can make out your features, so your skin is just colored black :)
    Resting Thor: no this is a skin i just bought as an experimeint
    Resting Thor: more obvious on chest and back
    Resting Thor: :)
    Resting Thor: definitely a dark look
    Dakini Rhode: Pia, Fred did not know how we saw him, because his computer rendered his skin correctly
    Dakini Rhode: but for some reason we saw no features at all
    Pia Iger: true, I did not know I had prostration issue at Assisi
    Dakini Rhode: true, you did :)
    Dakini Rhode: Pia was sitting every time she stopped walking (to me, it looked like that)
    Dakini Rhode: but to her, she looked normal
    Pia Iger: yes.
    Dakini Rhode: wow just now, Thor and I went invisible
    Dakini Rhode: all i could see was our hair and coffee cups
    Pia Iger: saw that too.
    Dakini Rhode: SL is getting tricky....
    Resting Thor: perhaps it is getting late :)
    Pia Iger: Pema has a photo of some pillow in red color, but to me all are yellow.
    Dakini Rhode: but looking at the clock, i do see our time is up...
    Dakini Rhode: and i must go
    Resting Thor: gnight and thank you Dakini and Pia
    Dakini Rhode: thanks for the interesting chat
    Pia Iger: me too, it is over time.
    Dakini Rhode: nite, all :)

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