2008.07.23 19:00 - So Soon

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    That evening, I found Adelene and Maxine seated in the pavilion when I entered.

    Adelene Dawner: ‘lo Pem :)
    Maxine Walden: hi, Pema
    Pema Pera: Hello, Maxine and Adelene!
    Adelene Dawner had a good day for Being, today. The sheer speed of this is still a bit mind-boggling for me.

    Each time I hear this kind of comments, I myself am amazed again at how PaB works. I had hoped that it would be simpler and faster then most traditional methods of contemplative exploration — but not in my wildest dreams had I imagined it would be this effective. Many guardians-to-be have reported having very significant experiences within their first few days of engagement with PaB, whereas traditional methods often take months or years to show clear effects and definite changes.

    Pema Pera: Hi there, Doug!
    Maxine Walden: oh, good. hi Doug
    doug Sosa: hi pema.
    doug Sosa: hi maxine.

    Doug joined us, and Adelene talked about her experimentation with PaB.

    Pema Pera: Yeah, Adelene, this whole Play of Being thing seems to have a pace of its own . . .
    Maxine Walden: right
    Pema Pera: So you went to some other meeting today, Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: Nope. I just got home from work and shopping about an hour ago. But remember what I said Monday about the nine seconds being a bad format for me?
    Pema Pera: yes?
    Adelene Dawner woke up in being-Being mode, after having fallen asleep in a near-nonfunctional variant of that mindstate, and stayed in that mode for at least four hours this morning. It dissapated sometime before noon.
    Maxine Walden: was that disturbing?
    Pema Pera: That sounds fascinating, Adelene, can you say a bit more?
    doug Sosa: being-being?
    Adelene Dawner: I’m not sure if or when I’ll be able to do that again, but that’s a lot closer ot my usual mind-function pattern, being in a state for a long time like that.
    doug Sosa: is it comfortable? uncomfortable?
    Adelene Dawner: Just… easy constant awareness that I am everything and everything is me.
    doug Sosa: give me a picture. lying down, sitting?
    Adelene Dawner: The varient of the state that I was in last night was actually so disconnected from this body as a relevant thing that I had trouble moving - not actually that surprising given how I relate to teh body in the first place. Today, I was able to function as normal, got up, went to work, all that.
    Adelene Dawner: *That* it happened that way doesn’t surprise me. That that happened so *soon*, does.

    This was the kind of reaction I commented on above. It suddenly reminded me of NASA’s slogan in the 1990s: faster, cheaper, better :-)

    doug Sosa: keeping in touch with the body means touching it. I increasingly include some deep message on myself while doing morning yoga.
    Pema Pera: you mean so soon after trying out the PaB practice, or perhaps after just talking about it?
    doug Sosa: I keep thinking, “this is me?…!”
    Maxine Walden: perhaps Adelene has some lag tonight
    Adelene Dawner nods at doug. “Like that, yes. The shower this morning helped with that - and if that kind of detachment is going to be a common thing with this, I’ll need to get ahold of some of the kinds of things autistics usually use to deal with those issues. Like perhaps a weighted blanket.”
    Adelene Dawner types, and thinks, fairly slowly, sorry.
    Maxine Walden: ah, sorry, did not know
    Adelene Dawner: Pema - trying it was the catalyst, more than talking.
    Adelene Dawner: But I didn’t really do the 9 second thing.
    Pema Pera: that’s very interesting, Adelene; what did you try?
    Adelene Dawner: Pondering that concept deeply, in my usual near-meditative mindstate.
    Adelene Dawner: I think *slowly*. Nine seconds is barely enough time to register that a new thought might be coming up from the depths.
    Pema Pera: is that mindstate connected in some way with being autistic, or is that something you have developed yourself, or occurred to you yourself?
    Adelene Dawner: The thinking slowly appears to be part of being autistic. It’s natural to me, in any case.
    Pema Pera: Your typing doesn’t seem slower than that of others.
    doug Sosa: to me it seems you type well, cohernetly and fairly rapidly. as much as the rest of us.
    Pema Pera: at least so, yes
    doug Sosa: (same thought!!:)
    Adelene Dawner: (To be accurate, I tend to type *more* for any one thought, so it takes longer.)
    Pema Pera: ah!
    doug Sosa: so the slow is because there is more, so really not slow. just fullsome.
    Adelene Dawner: mm ^.^

    Doug commented on the sphere of light that Adelene was holding between her wings.

    doug Sosa: that is a twinkle?
    Adelene Dawner: My typing sphere? Yep.
    Adelene Dawner: typeddy typeddy typeddy, showin’ it off :)
    Pema Pera smiles
    doug Sosa: I am wondering about the transition to being here in SL. I had a full afternoon, writing, tlaking, working in the garden - transplanted a big bush, and then did a quick paining of the sun setting on the river. then i came here.
    Maxine Walden: a full day, doug
    Maxine Walden: you paint as well?
    doug Sosa: yes, but not “as well”. That’s stupid, i wonder what i meant.
    Pema Pera wishes he could paint as well as Doug
    Maxine Walden: me too
    doug Sosa: the thing is to just do it. no comparisons. try something and then go to a useum to see how they did it.
    Maxine Walden: yes, just do it; that comparing mind can be a stopper
    doug Sosa: “museum” but i like useum.
    Maxine Walden: useum is a nice word
    doug Sosa: That comparing mind… i never quite understood it. Each person pains the way they do better than anyone else.
    Maxine Walden: maybe that was my own fantasy, about the comparing mind, after what you wrote, sorry if it does not apply to your experience
    doug Sosa: “paints”
    doug Sosa: I have too much fun to worry about comparisons. of course i am curious about what others do, but fun to explore what i can do.
    doug Sosa: No, not can do, i don’t know much about that, but i can see what i do do.
    Pema Pera: but if you compare what you do know with what you did, say, a few years ago, do you see no sense of improvement of some aspect, some technique, some kind of experience?
    Pema Pera: learning to see and express finer nuances perhaps?

    Adelene shared a song text with us.

    Adelene Dawner has been pondering, of all things, hip-hop lyrics as a source of wisdom, today, and has a related one to share if you’d like ^.^
    Pema Pera: sure!
    :: Fixed - Scroobius Pip
    :: Who am i better than?
    :: im better than i used to be,
    :: im gonna keep on getting better,
    :: so you better just get used to me.
    :: If you think thats a cop out then hear my point truthfully,
    :: cos chances are deep down this is how you used to be.
    :: If you aim is to be as good as scroobius pip,
    :: once you finally achieved it you standards will slip.
    :: But if your goal is only to improve on yourself,
    :: then the quest is never over no matter how big your wealth.
    Maxine Walden: a bit of wisdom, indeed, Adelene
    doug Sosa: the past paintings just remind me of what i saw then , where i was, now i am working to get better, so ther is real change, but the eralier paintings have a kind of charm i can easily lose.
    doug Sosa: i’d love to hear it.
    Maxine Walden: the charm of innocence perhaps?
    Maxine Walden: the strands of conversation tonight range widely
    Adelene Dawner: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqhHUxF7qSE warning, he curses. In every single song. Not badly in that one tho :)
    Pema Pera especially likes the “so you better just get used to me” :-)
    doug Sosa: how to i activate that URL?
    Pema Pera: but doug, by saying that the earlier paintings have a kind of charm that is different, you are making a comparison, don’t you?
    Adelene Dawner: Actually, that *version* of that one is a bit rougher than the one in my player. You can just click it, I think, Doug.
    doug Sosa: well, i am bit mouse handicapped so it wn’t click. Pema, it is acomparison but without a dig.
    Pema Pera: without a value judgment?
    doug Sosa: and without arrows of judgement.
    :: New Script
    :: Hello, Avatar!
    :: Hello, Avatar!
    Hello to you too :)
    doug Sosa: I am sorry to againsay that the bell has wrung (rung) and i’ve got to go to dinner. Gracefully he says bye.
    Pema Pera: see you Doug!
    Pema Pera: Thanks for stopping by
    Adelene Dawner: cya doug :)
    Maxine Walden: it was the arrows of judgment I was referring to earlier as stoppers,bye, Doug

    Doug left, and I ask Adelene more about her meditative experience.

    Adelene Dawner reads back, as she’s been distracted for the last few minutes.
    Pema Pera: Adelene, you spoke about ” usual near-meditative mindstate.”
    Pema Pera: is that something that you think many autistic people share
    Pema Pera: or something that is more specific to you?
    Adelene Dawner: I’m not sure. I think that a more meditative kind of mindstate is more natural to most autistics, but some are pressured into trying to use a faster state with less accuracy… like Caspian (do I have the name right?) appears to try to.
    Pema Pera: Yes, you got the name right
    Maxine Walden: ah, interesting
    Adelene Dawner: And that’s not always overt pressure - the slower more meditative mindstate *does* have its functional downsides.
    Pema Pera: For all of us, comparing how we experience being more in touch with Being is a great challenge
    Pema Pera: for starters, “meditation” can mean so many things to so many people, and hence “meditative mind state” too . . . .
    Pema Pera: it will take quite a while for all of us to learn to communicate about these things
    Pema Pera: fortunately, we have many meetings a day
    Adelene Dawner: Mm. ^.^ Well, you know I don’t mind talking about it.
    Pema Pera: and in addition an email group
    Maxine Walden: yes, we may use the same word for different things so not fully understand each other
    Pema Pera: yes, I’m very glad about that, Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: I won’t be able to make any time but this one except on Mondays and Tuesdays, though.
    Pema Pera: actually, Maxine today wrote an email on that topic
    Pema Pera: oh, that’s fine, Adelene
    Pema Pera: there is no rush
    Pema Pera: I see this Play as Being group going for many years :-)
    Adelene Dawner: (Unless you intrigue me so much that I decide to get up at 4-5 am :) )
    Pema Pera: which time zone are you in, Adelene?
    Adelene Dawner: Eastern US - New York time, SLT+3.
    Pema Pera always likes a challenge!
    Pema Pera: but there are 4 meetings a day
    Pema Pera: are the other ones all inconvenient for you?
    Adelene Dawner: Yes - 4am, 10am, 4pm, 10pm. I’m asleep at 4am, at work at 10 am and 4pm.
    Maxine Walden: and it may be that one meeting a day meets Adelene’s needs
    Maxine Walden: Pema, which email from me today were you referring to?

    Moderation shows the master.

    Adelene Dawner: I’d love to be able to come to more, but the limit of one might be a good thing from a Balance standpoint ^.^
    Pema Pera: And Maxine, yes, as you wrote, there are many different ways to experience the kinds of practices we do; I certainly did not mean to suggest that what Storm and I found should be typical in any way — and what Storm found one day was quite different from what he found another day.
    Maxine Walden: I can really understand that Adelene, the balance factor
    Pema Pera: Oh sure, Adelene — and of course there are the weekends too, but again, no rush at all !
    Adelene Dawner is not so good at Balance, at least as other people define it. ^.^
    Maxine Walden: we each have our own balance needs, Adelene
    Adelene Dawner: (Monday and Tuesday are my weekend, and you’ll see me here then as I was this past few days :) )
    Maxine Walden: yes, Pema, possibly passionately different experiences at different times
    Pema Pera: ah!, thanks for explaining Adelene
    Maxine Walden: I am interested and a bit cautious about the ‘power’ feeling, and so need to watch my friends and learn from them in this area; my previous experience has suggested caution
    Pema Pera: can you say more, Maxine?
    Maxine Walden: yes, and this may be where our views differ some, but in my experience we as individuals
    Maxine Walden: may feel we are more sturdy than might be the case
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Maxine Walden: and it can be very exciting to dip into the feel of power only
    Pema Pera: but perhaps “we as individuals” can also be a limiting way of thinking/perceiving, to start with
    Maxine Walden: to have it topple our sense of stability

    Maxine brought up a good point, for sure. At the same time, being overly worried about side effects can also hamper an exciting investigation. There are times when it is good to just jump in, with abandon.

    Pema Pera: but yes, what you say is important, and indeed can be a trap
    Pema Pera: but any meditative-like experience can be a trap
    Pema Pera: bliss can be a trap
    Pema Pera: equanimity can be a trap
    Pema Pera: excitement and frenzy can be a trap
    Maxine Walden: yes, Pema, of course, and anything which has an allure is usually a trap of some kind
    Adelene Dawner: *everyone* has strengths and weaknesses. My near-meditative mindstate can be a strength, but it’s a weakness *at the same time*. There are things that I have trouble doing, because they require the otehr kinds of mindstate, and I need help with those things.
    Pema Pera: yes, trying to be in a “no-self” state can undermine a healthy kind of “self” too — Buddhism for example can be easily misunderstood that way
    Adelene Dawner: And if I forget that, I wind up spending som much energy on those other things that I can’t do anything useful.
    Maxine Walden: So,
    Maxine Walden: Adelene, you feel you must be cautious about getting into the mindstates which are difficult for you?
    Adelene Dawner: More like they’re just as hard to achieve and sustain as meditation is for most people. I can’t spend 20 or 30 minutes in the scattered kind of mindstate necessary to, for example, clean a room. I get drawn into the complexities of the individual objects almost as soon as I try.
    Maxine Walden: pulled apart by the objects which need to be cleaned up
    Maxine Walden: that can be a problem, Adelene, but you know sometimes I get into that mindstate problem too, and it can be very wearying
    Adelene Dawner: mm-hmm
    Maxine Walden: Pema, it felt like we were beginning a discussion which might flesh out some of our differences, a discussion I would like to continue at some point; just seems more to explore, when there is time

    We would do so, in fact, 12 hours later, during the next morning session.

    Pema Pera: sure, and the first thing is to flesh out whether they really are difference
    Pema Pera: my impression is that they are not
    Pema Pera: or at least that what you perceive as differences between how you emphasize some aspect and how I emphasize some aspect do not imply real differences so much as almost coincidental stances or orientations
    Pema Pera: but we’ll have to talk more to find out
    Adelene Dawner nods.
    Pema Pera: like saying “no self” does not mean “no room for healthy functioning on self”
    Maxine Walden: yes, maybe not, but I think that I get a bit angry with myself in some of my attempts at discussion because I capitulate what I have found to be significant understandings
    Maxine Walden: yes, for later, I think
    Pema Pera: similarly, whenever I emphasize that “for Being there is not X, Y, Z” that doesn’t mean “please, Maxine, to play this game you have to sacrifica X, Y, Z” although it can easily come across that way, of course — I would never imply that, though
    Maxine Walden: Adelene, is it difficult to follow the several strands of conversation, like what we are having now?
    Adelene Dawner: Sometimes. At the moment I’m a bit confused as to what exactly you’re talking about, but that’s okay.
    Maxine Walden: I feel that to be true, Pema, that you do not intend that kind of sacrifice, but as a leader and I a student I can give it that power
    Pema Pera: haha, I definitely do not want to be a leader — and whenever that impression plays a role, it is good to see how we can de-emphasize that
    Adelene Dawner: (Too many things going on at once, without good typed pointers as to what responds to what, will confuse me. I generally figure it out eventually though.)
    Pema Pera: but talking about time, it is an hour already, I’ll have to go
    Maxine Walden: Adelene, Pema and I have had bits of conversation over the past few months, and sometimes strands came back or old questions…
    Pema Pera: so yes, Maxine, let’s pick this up together
    Maxine Walden: yes, me too
    Adelene Dawner: ok, no problem here :)
    Maxine Walden: Good to have this talk, Adelene and Pema, nice talk
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Maxine Walden: bye for now
    Pema Pera: be well, Maxine!
    Pema Pera: see you soon again!
    Maxine Walden: and you, Pema, yes, see you soon

    Just about the time I got an IM from Caspian, asking me whether I would like to see his new temple. I responded that, yes, I’d love to see it, though I wouldn’t have much time.

    Teleport completed from http://slurl.com/secondlife/Rieul/179/150/75
    Caspian Inglewood: hey pema!
    Pema Pera: Can I invite a new friend as well?
    Caspian Inglewood: just wanted to show everyone, I am so proud
    Caspian Inglewood: yes of course
    Caspian Inglewood: how are you?
    Pema Pera: Caspian, this is Adelene
    Pema Pera: Adelene, Caspian wanted to show his new temple

    Since Adelene had heard and read about Caspian, I thought it might be nice for her to come over as well.

    Caspian Inglewood: ah, good to meet you Adelene
    Caspian Inglewood: still rezzing
    Pema Pera: Hi Caspian!
    Caspian Inglewood: hmm, I wonder why the wall lights up
    Caspian Inglewood: when you walk near it
    Caspian Inglewood: please, come in
    Caspian Inglewood takes a humble bow
    Caspian Inglewood: so this is downstairs
    Pema Pera: looks very nice, Caspian!
    Caspian Inglewood: the main zendo
    Caspian Inglewood: ty, I think so
    Pema Pera: lots of sitting places
    Caspian Inglewood: let me show upstairs
    Caspian Inglewood: please use teleports on eaither side of Buddha
    Caspian Inglewood: yes, 23
    Caspian Inglewood: pretty good number
    Pema Pera: very pretty!
    Caspian Inglewood: sometimes when i sit here I am in limbo
    Pema Pera: did you design all this, Caspian?
    Caspian Inglewood: yes, mostly
    Caspian Inglewood: I had so much help from others
    Pema Pera: it has a really good feel to it, the place
    Caspian Inglewood: I just want you to know, I can’t see anything right now
    Caspian Inglewood: lol
    Caspian Inglewood: now I can
    Caspian Inglewood: this place has strange glitches, or it is my connection
    Caspian Inglewood: on the empty wall there
    Caspian Inglewood: that will be Ryusho’s store
    Caspian Inglewood: yeah it has a nice feel to it I think
    Caspian Inglewood: you are welcome to hold retreats here if you ever need to
    Pema Pera: Thank you, Caspian! I appreciate it
    Caspian Inglewood: of course
    Caspian Inglewood: it will bring more people to it…lol

    Alas, I had to run.

    Pema Pera: right now I have to rush off though, dinner is waiting here in RL in California
    Pema Pera: but thank you for showing it to me!
    Caspian Inglewood: np, ty for coming
    Caspian Inglewood: may I add you to our group?
    Pema Pera: and I’m glad I had a chance to introduce the two of you
    Pema Pera: I just met Adelene a few days ago
    Caspian Inglewood: yeah me also
    Pema Pera: but we had some really interesting conversations
    Caspian Inglewood: I am sure you both did
    Pema Pera: oh, sure, Caspian, if I have room for more groups, let me check
    Caspian Inglewood: Adelene, would you like to become member; you will be notified of sitting periods that way
    Adelene Dawner: sure :)
    Caspian Inglewood: k
    Pema Pera: yes, I’m up to 23 :)
    Pema Pera: so room for just two more
    Caspian Inglewood: done
    Pema Pera: thank you!
    Caspian Inglewood: we will sit at least once a day
    Pema Pera: Be well, and see you later
    Caspian Inglewood: so if you are on, come
    Caspian Inglewood: we had 9 today
    Caspian Inglewood: it will grow
    Pema Pera: bye Adelene!
    Caspian Inglewood: you also
    Adelene Dawner: See you tomorrow, Pem.

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