That evening, Stim was the guardian. He sent me the chat log, and I added the comments below.
In short succession, Stim, Avastu, Starseed, Doug and Rajah arrive.
Stim Morane: Hi Avastu
Avastu Maruti: hello my friend
Starseed Xue: hello
doug Sosa: hello avatsu, starseed!
Stim Morane: Hi Starseed
Starseed Xue: hello everyone
doug Sosa: Stim
Stim Morane: Hi Doug
Stim Morane: Hi Rajah
doug Sosa: hi, some hat
Rajah Yalin: hi all, thanks :p
Starseed Xue: dont worry
Starseed Xue: be happy
doug Sosa: just back from a four mile hike along the cliffs of the pacific, good to sit!
Rajah Yalin: nice
Rajah Yalin: does anyone here do scripting?
Stim Morane: not anymore …
Stim Morane: What was your thought, Rajah?
Rajah Yalin: hm, well I don’t know if it is a script error or what, the menu for my cottage doesn’t want to come up
Rajah Yalin: the privacy window menu I mean
Stim Morane: hmmm … sorry, I don’t know enough about SL to have an opinion re that.
Rajah Yalin: thats okay, I have alternative methods if it bothers me enough
Starseed Xue: Dont worry
Starseed Xue: Be happy
Rajah Yalin: :)
Rajah Yalin: Stim how is the project you and Pema have going on working?
Stim Morane: Which one? There are so many angles to what we’re supposedly doing …
Rajah Yalin: lol “supposedly” ?
Stim Morane: well, yes.
Stim Morane: We don’t have time for everything …
Rajah Yalin: ah thought it might be procastination
Rajah Yalin: that is my problem :/
Rajah Yalin: hi Pia
Pia Iger: Hi, You all.
Starseed Xue: when you wear a frown you bring everybody down
Starseed Xue: so dont worry
Starseed Xue: be happy
Stim Morane: Hi Pia
Rajah Yalin: hi Caspian
Caspian Inglewood: rezzing problems
Rajah Yalin: thats SL
Stim Morane: Hi Caspian
With Pia an Caspian, the group has grown to seven. Soon after that, Charlyne drops by.
Caspian Inglewood: right
Caspian Inglewood: hi there
doug Sosa: caspian
Caspian Inglewood: :)
Starseed Xue: Dont worry
Starseed Xue: Be happy
Stim Morane: I am content to “just sit” … but if anyone wants to discuss something, that’s fine too.
Rajah Yalin: hi Charlyne
Rajah Yalin: well….
Rajah Yalin: we could discuss PaB
Stim Morane: OK
Starseed Xue: id like to know more
Caspian Inglewood gave you Kannon Zen Temple, Samurai Japan (206, 107, 51).
Rajah Yalin: about what?
Starseed Xue: PaB
doug Sosa: hello charlyne
Charlyne Benoir: hello
Caspian Inglewood: hey Charlyne
Stim Morane: What have you learned about it so far, Starseed?
Charlyne Benoir: maybe it’s no region for me
Stim Morane: Hi Charlyne
Starseed Xue: all i know is the basics
Charlyne Benoir: i’m an escort
Rajah Yalin: you are welcome here
Stim Morane: up to you …
Starseed Xue: 9 seconds of meditation every 15 minutes
Stim Morane: Yes
Stim Morane: Have you had a chance yet to try that?
Starseed Xue: yeah
Caspian Inglewood: that is funny idea
Charlyne Benoir: i go…bye
Stim Morane: Bye!
Stim Morane: Being funny is not such a bad thing.
Exit Charlyne, enter Adelene.
Rajah Yalin: the idea is to get a lot of meditation daily through it.. thats all there is to know, the rest comes to you
Caspian Inglewood: why not 15 minutes of meditation every 9 seconds?
Adelene Dawner: hmm.
Rajah Yalin: hi Adelene
Pia Iger: Hi, Adelene,
Starseed Xue: i try to meditate as often as possible
Caspian Inglewood: lol
Rajah Yalin: might have no time for SL that way caspian
Stim Morane: Yes, Caspian … that would be better. No meditation at all would be even better. But that is perhaps another story.
Adelene Dawner: Large group, half braindead here, bad idea, see you tomorrow maybe.
Caspian Inglewood: hey Adelene
doug Sosa: adelene come sit.
Rajah Yalin: haf braindead?
Starseed Xue: i was at a family bbq tonight
Starseed Xue: and i realized i was the least stressed there
Starseed Xue: and thats because i meditate
Stim Morane: Interesting.
Stim Morane: Why were the others stressed?
Starseed Xue: well, my brother in law was afraid of his mind
Stim Morane: I’m sorry.
Caspian Inglewood: strange statement
Adelene Dawner: Yes half braindead - processing slow, thoughts-to-words poor, did want to show latter - perhaps interesting to you - but… large group bad.
doug Sosa: And are there other reasons that contribute to your not being as stressed?
Starseed Xue: he said “the second i sit still i think bad thoughts”
Caspian Inglewood: so he should not worry about it
Rajah Yalin: thats no problem, no thought in meditation
Caspian Inglewood: thinking comes and goes
Caspian Inglewood: it is being attached to this coming and going that is the problem
Starseed Xue: hes a tv addict
Pia Iger: TV taught him to worry more:)
Rajah Yalin: I don’t own a TV, luckily
Starseed Xue: yes
Starseed Xue: you arent missing anythinig, Rajah
Caspian Inglewood: clear mind is like the full moon…sometimes clouds will cover it, but behind the moon only shines
Caspian Inglewood: so people should not worry about clear mind, it is always there
Rajah Yalin: how come you are half braindead Adelene?
Adelene Dawner: Lack of sleep / overstimulation. Happens. Not unusual, not scary, will pass. Work may be interesting tomorrow though.
Caspian Inglewood: maybe tell your brother in law this
Stim Morane: I hope you feel better soon.
Adelene Dawner chuckles. “Feel fine. Just brain being itself.”
Caspian Inglewood: adelene, hope you feel better:)
Rajah Yalin: sorry to hear that Adelene
Rajah Yalin: maybe rest will help?
Caspian Inglewood: sends you some ginkoba
The discussion turns to “don’t worry, be happy”, and then Neela joins the group.
Pia Iger: I wonder how much it will work, just tell ppl “don’t worry, be happy”.
Adelene Dawner: Time will help. Sleep fills time.
Starseed Xue: bob marley
Caspian Inglewood: well good luck
Rajah Yalin: actually I think it’s a Bobby Mcferrin song (and a meher baba poster)
Caspian Inglewood: don’t worry be happy?
Caspian Inglewood: bobby mcferrin I think
Rajah Yalin nods.
Pia Iger: I feel people have to learn from themselves that “don’t worry, be happy”, instead of being just told so.
Starseed Xue: true
Stim Morane: It’s circular … learning and adopting that View feed each other
Stim Morane: But people are also different, and circumstances necessitate more emphasis on one side or the other.
Rajah Yalin: hi Neela
Stim Morane: Hi Neela
Caspian Inglewood: hey Neela!
Neela Blaisdale: Hello everyone, sorry to be late
Starseed Xue: when you worry your face will frown and that will bring everybodyt down
Pia Iger: not everybody, some people know better than being affected.
Stim Morane: The issue here is not just a positive affect, a “mood” of happiness.
Stim Morane: I think few people in this world understand what is beyond moods.
Stim Morane: Anyway, we could say PaB is about this latter, noncircumstantial kind of “happiness”.
Stim Morane: Even the word “happiness” refers to happenings, but true joy is not dependent on happenings of one sort or another.
The conversation then turned more serious, to death and grieving.
Rajah Yalin: I realised a few years ago after my wife died that it is an arrogant side of me that caused me to go sad, I could trace everything back to my own meanness
Stim Morane: I don’t know if this is a good thing to ask, but would you be willing to say more, Rajah?
Rajah Yalin: and since I’ve only went sad once which I can also trace to my own arrogance
Caspian Inglewood: Raj makes good point I think, even though it is not correct to say in many circles
Stim Morane: By arrogance, do you mean “self importance”?
Pia Iger: how do you know it is arrogance?
Rajah Yalin: the ego, wanting for the self
Stim Morane: Yes.
Stim Morane: I agree.
Caspian Inglewood: exactly right
Caspian Inglewood: grieving is a #1 selfish act…but, it is also natural
Stim Morane: a natural response must be respected. It’s the run-on tendency that is linked to self importance
Caspian Inglewood: we don’t really mourn that they do no exist anymore, even though maybe a little we do
Caspian Inglewood: we mourn for our own loss
Stim Morane: Yes
Stim Morane: And even that involves a heedless attachment to things that we are not, really, in any essential sense.
Stim Morane: Of course, this is getting into risky territory, as Caspian indicated.
Neela Blaisdale: I think sometimes one can grieve for things one doesn’t have a personal attachmen tto
Stim Morane: Absolutely.
Caspian Inglewood: yes, but is much more rare
Stim Morane: Grieving can be profound, and not selfish.
Caspian Inglewood: and not even sure grieving is right word
Neela Blaisdale: for things that affect all beings
Caspian Inglewood: perhaps empathize
Pia Iger: yes, I was thinking about empathy.
Stim Morane: But this involves a much deeper kind of natural response
doug Sosa: The thinking mind can know the person died, but the habits don’t yet understand it, so there is tension within because of conflicting beliefs. (dead or still alive).
Neela Blaisdale: No not empathy,for me that means putting oneself in the others shoes
Neela Blaisdale: But grief involves a loss
Caspian Inglewood: the problem is, and it isn’t right to say…but the world does not need or grieving
Caspian Inglewood: only needs help
Caspian Inglewood: our*
Caspian Inglewood: starving child does not want my tears
Caspian Inglewood: only wants food
Pia Iger: what is the feeling of wanting to help come from?
Caspian Inglewood: why does a lion roar?
Caspian Inglewood: why do dogs bark?
Caspian Inglewood: every animal understands their job
Caspian Inglewood: but human beings do not understand
Rajah Yalin: possibly our attachment to becoming the top animal
Rajah Yalin: who is “top” of the food chain? humans, apparently
Stim Morane: there are many possibilitties. But what traditions have called “the true human” can certainly grieve. And this natural response is involved in making helping gestures. They are linked. But “higher grieving”, if I can coin a phrase, is also “empty”. This gets back to some things others of you have said.
Neela Blaisdale: Yes exactly Stim
Doug had to leave.
doug Sosa: i must to dinner. apologies. bye
Caspian Inglewood: it isn’t about feeling shame for grieving
Stim Morane: Empty caring and fellow feeling is the essence of direct helping, without indulgence.
Rajah Yalin: take care Doug
Caspian Inglewood: it is about realizing its selfish essence
Stim Morane: Oh, Bye Doug. THanks for joining us.
Neela Blaisdale: Bye doug
Stim Morane: Yes, shame is not the issue.
Caspian Inglewood: so it is not as if we say, “grieving should not occur.”
Stim Morane: It’s about what is real.
Caspian Inglewood: no more than saying farting should not
Caspian Inglewood: lol, try not farting
Stim Morane: True. The fact that it arises is not an obstruction to the clear mind you mentioned earlier.
Neela Blaisdale: I must go as well, good night everyone
Stim Morane: Good night, Neela.
Pia Iger: nite.
Caspian Inglewood: yeah, when grieiving you grieve
Rajah Yalin: take care Neela
Caspian Inglewood: anyway, I should get back to temple
Caspian Inglewood: some guests have arrived
Caspian Inglewood takes a humble bow
Caspian Inglewood: ty for wonderful evening
Pia Iger: bye.
Stim Morane: Thanks for joining us, Caspian.
After Neela, Caspian left too.
Stim Morane: This looks like where we started.
Stim Morane: Except darker.
Rajah Yalin: hmm
Rajah Yalin: later?
Stim Morane: Yes
Pia Iger: Stim, do you mean that we don’t want to help. or afraid of help, is because we did not see the reality?
Stim Morane: Sorry, I’d have to scroll back a bit to see what you’re referring to.
Pia Iger: you said ‘It’s about what is real.’.
Stim Morane: this was in reference to the “shame” vs “grief” issue
Stim Morane: And grief can itself be a reaction that isn’t very reality-centered, or it can be a profound expression of reality.
Stim Morane: anyway, Starseed … do you have PaB “practice’ questions?
Starseed Xue: not really, no
Stim Morane: obviously the “practice” here is pretty open … as Rajah indicated
Stim Morane: That may eventually change.
Rajah Yalin: how?
Stim Morane: But if so, it would come from what you participants are finding.
Stim Morane: Rajah, I’m the last person to have any opinions about that. I’m trying to let the group as a whole determine that.
Stim Morane: Pia, did you want to follow up on something you raised earlier?
Pia Iger: yes, I am still not clear why we feel empathy, but still not ready to give help.
Stim Morane: Oh. Interesting.
Stim Morane: Do you have any ideas about that?
Pia Iger: there is disconnection of our sympathetic feeling to our actions. One reason, I would guess it is fear.
Stim Morane: You often feel this obstruction to direct action yourself?
Pia Iger: yes, I feel there is obstruction.
Adelene returned.
Stim Morane: Hi again, Adelene
Adelene Dawner: ‘lo
Adelene Dawner: Brain’s a bit better. I may drop in and out of using full sentences though.
Stim Morane: Fine
Rajah Yalin: good to see you again Adelene
Adelene Dawner: (Actually, now I want to find a way of expressin that without saying ‘better’, which I consider inaccurate.)
Stim Morane: Yes.
Stim Morane: So Pia, are you thinking that the resistance you mention is intractable?
Stim Morane: Or just difficult?
Pia Iger: very difficult, or perplexing.
Stim Morane: Adelene, we’re talking about why we sometimes hold back from helping someone
Pia Iger: another reason I can think of not able to help. can be that I feel myself is very weak.
Adelene Dawner: Ah. Complicated. Example?
Stim Morane: Yes, Pia. I hear this one a lot in my classes.
Pia Iger: I guess this is common.
Stim Morane: Very common.
Stim Morane: Do you feel up to giving an example?
Pia Iger: not at this moment.
Stim Morane: OK
Adelene Dawner: Was asking for one, but I can contribute without.
Stim Morane: I will have to go in a minute, but would encourage the rest of you to stay and continue …
Adelene Dawner: I often don’t help unless explicitly asked - my view is that it is better for people to … make the choice of having help or not by themselves.
Stim Morane: Yes.
Stim Morane: It depends …
Pia Iger: to me, there are plenty people out there ask for help.
Rajah Yalin: I will see you all later
Stim Morane: Time to go. Thank you all for coming. I wish we could chat more, but perhaps another time.
Avastu Maruti: good bye my friends
Rajah Yalin: take care all
Pia Iger: bye. all.
Stim Morane: Bye Avastu.
Stim Morane: Bye Rajah and Pia and Adelene …
Adelene Dawner: ‘night
Pia Iger: nited.
