2008.07.27 19:00 - Joy in Being Here

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    Pia Iger was the guardian and gave the comments.


    Greetings among new and old friends.

    Rajah Yalin: are you doing any better from last night Adelene?

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Doug

    Starseed Xue: namaste everyone

    doug Sosa: Hi Ralah and all

    Rajah Yalin: hi Pia

    Rajah Yalin: and emily

    lilianna Criss: hello

    doug Sosa: Hi Pla

    Adelene Dawner: Somewhat better, but not 100%. My brain-function cycles tend to be about three days, so I'll probably be back to normal - or at least, on to something else - on Tuesday.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hi Pia

    Pia Iger: a big crowd tonight:)

    Rajah Yalin: ah sounds rough

    Adelene Dawner shrugs. "I'm used to it. It has its advantages, actually."

    Pia Iger: are Lilianna and Vertigo new here?

    Rajah Yalin: yes Lili is

    Rajah Yalin: I don't believe I've seen Vertigo before either

    Pia Iger: let me just give them our website


    so they can check out later.


    Got to the business.

    Pia Iger: anyone wants to discuss anything tonight?

    doug Sosa: the joy of fatigue

    Pia Iger: from cutting bushes?

    doug Sosa: tonight, trees along the river.

    doug Sosa: good memory!

    Pia Iger: I've never connected joy with fatigue before.interesting

    doug Sosa: fatigue leads to a kind letting go, a loss of normal tension, and it is somewhat like the experience I have with the short 9 sec meditations we practice.


    Vertigo returned from afk. The topic turned to reality.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: im sorry, back... hello to all... i just found this place last night, its amazing

    Adelene Dawner chuckles, seeing echoes of echoes in the conversation and her mindstate.

    doug Sosa: anyone who thinks this is amazing is our kind of person :)

    Pia Iger: so, Vertigo, you know basics of what we do here?

    Vertigo Ethaniel: ive been told its a place to discuss things

    Pia Iger: We discuss our exploration of reality here.

    doug Sosa: reality after we drop the conventional codes about what reality is.

    doug Sosa: Then maybe we can learn something from the experience.

    stevenaia Michinaga: it is something we all share after all

    doug Sosa: i find that easy to forget!

    Pia Iger: very easy.

    stevenaia Michinaga: and yet even when forgotten it’s still the case

    doug Sosa: thank the gods!

    stevenaia Michinaga: the joy of things that are forgotten yet still remain true

    Pia Iger: Lilianna, do you have any questions?

    Rajah Yalin: shes afk one sec

    Vertigo Ethaniel: i think that a lot of the things that are forgotten we would miss if they were not there

    Pia Iger: Can you expand a bit, Vertigo?

    Vertigo Ethaniel: the birds chirping, the chimes playing gently, the water running in the distance

    Vertigo Ethaniel: humans tend to take these things for granted

    stevenaia Michinaga: yes, always there, whether you see them/hear then or not

    doug Sosa: the salmon is smoking, gotta go.

    Pia Iger: on the other hand, there are many things that look really there, but are just illusions.

    stevenaia Michinaga: glad I ate already

    stevenaia Michinaga: Pia? can you explain more?

    Pia Iger: like worry, fear, they feel so real, but they are illusions.

    stevenaia Michinaga: so is love and happiness equally illusionary?

    Vertigo Ethaniel: good question

    stevenaia Michinaga: and I don’t have a good answer

    Adelene Dawner waits for a break in the conversation.

    stevenaia Michinaga: but the physical impact of both are equally intense

    Starseed Xue: im a bit distracted tonight

    Pia Iger: Adelene, you can jump in any time.

    stevenaia Michinaga: but quite different

    Adelene Dawner: I don't want to disrupt the current topic. I also don't want to just let my question go, though.

    Pia Iger: let's see.


    Adelene caught our attention that we might overlook something unknowingly.

    Adelene Dawner: It appears - though this *could* just be me - that it is being assumed that because I am having difficulty communicating, that I do not want to communicate. I've commented a few times - not many, but a few - and my comments have been ignored. I want to know if that assumption is being made, and if so, why.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: on my part, not at all adelene... im a bit distracted with work

    Pia Iger: Your comments are ignored? I don't feel so.

    Adelene Dawner: Back at 19:08.

    Pia Iger: I don't have time stamp. What you were saying?

    stevenaia Michinaga: [19:08] Adelene Dawner chuckles, seeing echoes of echoes in the conversation and her mindstate.

    Adelene Dawner: [19:06] doug Sosa: the joy of fatigue [19:06] Pia Iger: from cutting bushes? [19:06] dougSosa: tonight, trees along the river. [19:07] dougSosa: good memory! [19:07] Pia Iger: I've never connect joy with fatigue before. interesting [19:07] doug Sosa: fatigue leads to a kind letting go, a loss of normal tension, and it is somewhat like the experience i have with the short 9 sec meditations we practice. [19:08] Adelene Dawner chuckles, seeing echoes of echoes in the conversation and her mindstate.

    Pia Iger: to me, It sounds like a silent text. Also I don't know how to respond.

    Pia Iger: Steve, what do you think?

    Vertigo Ethaniel: adelene, i view conversation like a river... it has many components, and all contribute to a greater whole

    stevenaia Michinaga: I would be happy to hear you elaborate Adelene

    stevenaia Michinaga: if you can

    Adelene Dawner: This kind of mindstate... the language I use for it tends to be negative, because that's the language I've learned to refer to it, and it's hard to make new phrases in this mindstate. But I've said over and over that I don't see it as negative, even so.

    It's a necessary part of *me* - without this, the other side where I'm so articulate can't happen. That's where I communicate; this is where I think.

    Adelene Dawner: And there is a joy in being here.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: there is joy wherever you want to see it

    Vertigo Ethaniel: or feel it

    kurai Karu: im so sorry to drop in like that

    Vertigo Ethaniel: or experience it in any way

    Vertigo Ethaniel: it happens kurai :) why not join us?

    kurai Karu: thank you

    stevenaia Michinaga: I agree Vertigo


    Kurai dropped in from roof and stayed with us. I IMed her about our PaB, did not want to interrupt Adelene’s thread.

    Adelene Dawner hmms, and ponders trying to describe the two states more clearly.

    stevenaia Michinaga: to me negatives and joy are realms quite a distant from each other

    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, please elaborate on the subject adelene

    stevenaia Michinaga: I live in the joys in life, and rarely dwell in the negatives

    Pia Iger: I am a bit slow tonight. What we have here is open conversation. Anyone can jump in.

    Pia Iger: The talk flows organically.

    stevenaia Michinaga: I just assume it is a choice we all can make Adelene Dawner: The other state is very open, very bright, very airy. Bright is actually not intrinsically positive for me, by the way. But in that state... hard to describe. Everything's connected, 'me' doesn't matter or even hardly exist. As I mentioned, communication comes very easily there, and clearly; I can see you all, see the concepts, see how to apply one to the other. But I can't see me.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: the self is the hardest thing in the universe to understand

    stevenaia Michinaga: and that is much of what we seek here, Being Adelene Dawner: This state, just the opposite. 'Me' is almost all I can see. Interfacing with anything outside myself is hard, except by habit - which is part of 'me', after all. It's cozy, here, and I can think in my native language of shapes and colors (synesthesia, for those interested) without automatically taking the energy to translate them into words.

    Adelene Dawner: That kind of thinking is useful.That's where/how I figure out the stuff I talk about when I'm in the other mode, because it really *can't* be processed in words.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: if you don’t mind me asking, when did you first discover this about yourself?

    Adelene Dawner: The thing is, though, I still have just as much interest in being social no matter which mode I'm in.

    Adelene Dawner: Vertigo: It's been a journey. I really started putting the pieces together about a year and a half or two years ago, but the pieces have always been there. I've always cycled through writing poetry or not writing poetry, for example.

    Pia Iger: sounds like you can clearly see yourself in two states, 'self' or 'being".

    Adelene Dawner: There are other states than these two, but they are the natural ones - and this is more natural than the more communicative one.

    stevenaia Michinaga: It’s been said more than once here how words from each of us mean different things and there in lies much of the communication difficulty that we are trying to see here

    Pia Iger: so as Being, is very natural for you.

    Pia Iger: yes. Steve.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: i come from a very scientific background, so mathematics and reason tend to be the language most natural to me Adelene Dawner: Steve: That's why the other mode uses poetry - and takes the time to define its terms.Clarity is important.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: but life is all about learning, and i am learning that no mathematical equations solve the problems within ones self

    Adelene Dawner: Well, no language is a solution by itself.

    Pia Iger: we still like conversation and struggle to understand each other.

    kurai Karu: and sometimes no word can explain the struggle one's feeling inside

    Vertigo Ethaniel: i agree

    Adelene Dawner: mm... I got lost from my point :) that happens here.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: sometimes, sharing your thought can shed light on problems, and other times quiet meditation is needed

    Adelene Dawner: Where I was trying to go with that was that this mode generates ideas, and when there are enough ideas and a good audience, I go into that other mode to share them... but that mode is draining, fatiguing, so I eventually - often pretty quickly - return here. And I like it here. Here is easy.


    As Mortem, a drop-in, came, the conversation got more scattered.

    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Mortem

    Mortem Morpork: Hello

    Vertigo Ethaniel: take a pillow, mortem, and lets discuss things

    Mortem Morpork: So, how long have you all been playing?

    Rajah Yalin: since April 12, 2007 here

    Vertigo Ethaniel: myself, barely 4 days

    Mortem Morpork: 1 hour here X D not even that

    kurai Karu: 2 days here

    Mortem Morpork: Still learning the controls and stuff

    Mortem Morpork: I have a feeling I'm too lazy to make anything decent in this game, lol

    Mortem Morpork: For instance....proper shoes.

    stevenaia Michinaga: Adelene, have you tried the 9 second meditations?

    Adelene Dawner: Not as such. That time-format doesn't work for me in any mindstate. I've meditated on the concept though.

    stevenaia Michinaga: well I haven't either, and you helped me understand possibly why not

    Vertigo Ethaniel: mortem, your time is what you make of it

    Pia Iger: sometimes, a big group is hard to get into a topic in depth.

    stevenaia Michinaga: that's why meeting so often has its advantages Mortem Morpork: Black Holes/White holes. discuss. X D

    Vertigo Ethaniel: physics :) now you’re talking my language!

    Mortem Morpork: Eh, I added some weird stuff to my stumble upon interests

    Pia Iger: it's one hour already. I am wrapping up the log.

    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you Pia

    Pia Iger: Kurai, Mortem, we usually record what we talk here on our website, are you ok with that?

    kurai Karu: ok fine with it

    Pia Iger: thanks.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: looks like mortem has left us

    Pia Iger: My eyes can't focus now. but you guys can stay as you want.

    Vertigo Ethaniel: i think i may go and meditate

    stevenaia Michinaga: night pia

    kurai Karu: nice meeting you all

    Pia Iger: see you all next time.

    Adelene Dawner: 'night Pia

    Vertigo Ethaniel: yes, you all too.. i will be back

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