2008.12.04 19:00 - Making life changes

The guardian for this meeting was Sylectra and the comments are Sylectra's.

Solobill Laville: Heya, friends

Geo Netizen: Hi Solo

Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Solo!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Sylectra!
Sylectra Darwin: Hello dearies!
Sylectra Darwin: So good to see you.
Geo Netizen: Hi Sylectra
Threedee Shepherd: Hi Syl. Moved yet?
Sylectra Darwin: Finished getting the last stick of furniture in the new place on Sunday.
Sylectra Darwin: It feels good.
Sylectra Darwin: But we live in a den of boxes and bags.
Adelene Dawner rallies a bit of enthusiasm... "My turn, next." ^.^
Geo Netizen: Time should remedy that :)
Threedee Shepherd: I have unpacked boxes from two moves ago :)
Adelene Dawner: Only two? ^.^
Geo Netizen: So …. do I have to go to Kira to get the drama?
Sylectra Darwin: Adelene, are you moving?
Threedee Shepherd: I have boxes that are unpacked but *looked in* from the mid 1960s
Adelene Dawner chuckles. "Yes, I'm moving. Not sure when, but soon."
Geo Netizen thinks he understand ….
Geo Netizen but that a risky assumption
Adelene Dawner: It has finally gotten to the point where, even if my relationship with BF is theoretically fixable, I just can't do it any more, for now.
Sylectra Darwin: that happens, Adelene.
Adelene Dawner: ...and of course *now* is when he decides that, oh, I really have been serious for the past two years about the fact that his lack of respect and maturity were killing the relationship, and now he's going to do something about 'em...
Sylectra Darwin: too little too late maybe?
Geo Netizen scratches Ade's ruff with affection
Adelene Dawner: By a longshot, Syl.
Geo Netizen: O... I’ve missed that purrrrrrrrrr :)
Adelene Dawner: ^.^
Adelene Dawner: It's been hard getting to this point... I think I actually let it go too far, actually, let him push me too close to the brink before I said, enough's enough...
Adelene Dawner: but, it is what it is.
Sylectra Darwin: Your tipping point is wherever it needs to be at the moment.
Sylectra Darwin: Hello, Claire.
Geo Netizen: Hi Claire
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Hi, Claire!
Claire Beltran: Hello...
Geo Netizen: Yes I agree Syl
Solobill Laville: hey, Claire
Adelene Dawner grins at Three's choice of laps.
Claire Beltran pets Threedee's mane.
Threedee Shepherd: Hi Claire
Geo Netizen: Ade, you called it now because now what the right time.
Sylectra Darwin: As far as timing goes, we pick the right time for making each change in our lives. Many things must come together before a change can happen.
Adelene Dawner nods... true...
Adelene Dawner: don't like getting this close to the edge, though.
Geo Netizen nods
Geo Netizen: Hi Crusty
Geo Netizen: Come have a seat
Sylectra Darwin: Timing for life changes might be a fine choice for a conversation tonight, if you all have more to add.
Crusty Goldshark: hi guys
Adelene Dawner does not have much energy for conversing but will contribute as she is able...
Solobill Laville: Hello, Crusty
Geo Netizen scratches Ade with affection
Sylectra Darwin: Welcome Crusty.
Geo Netizen: Is this your first time here Crusty?
Geo Netizen: Hi Steve
Crusty Goldshark: Change is inevitable. The time for change is always now . . . come to think of it . . . it always is now
Sylectra Darwin: Nice, Crusty.
Sylectra Darwin: Hi Stevie!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello all
Solobill Laville: hey, Steve
Crusty Goldshark: hi
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles..Hey, Steve!
Threedee Shepherd: Hi steve
Solobill Laville: Ray of Light indeed, that's all I see! :)
Sylectra Darwin: He's very glowy.
Sylectra Darwin: That's just the kind of person he is.
Crusty Goldshark: I wonder what changes people want?
stevenaia Michinaga: ..smile
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Corvi
Claire Beltran: Hello, Steve. ^-^/
stevenaia Michinaga: waiting for others to rezz
Sylectra Darwin: Well for me Crusty, I made several major life changes this year - new state of residence, new job, new relationship.
stevenaia Michinaga: Claire, so nice to see you
Threedee Shepherd: Usually I settle for a change of clean underwear :>
Sylectra Darwin: I decided I was waiting to live my life and so I just went for it.
Sylectra Darwin: clean underwear is always a nice change, ThreeDee :)
Crusty Goldshark: So Sylectra - change is a conscious choice?
Geo Netizen: Yes-No
Sylectra Darwin: hmm
Sylectra Darwin: For me in this case, yes.
Sylectra Darwin: But I think we can effect changes from an unconscious choice too.
Crusty Goldshark: Example?
Geo Netizen: Change of weather
Geo Netizen: It affect's me
Geo Netizen: not a conscious choice
Sylectra Darwin: I guess I was talking about changes we make in our lives as opposed to changes that happen to us, although the two certainly feed off each other.
Crusty Goldshark: How we react to weather is partly a conscious choice that we can increasethe capacity for perhaps?
Geo Netizen: Definitely
Geo Netizen: hard to separate I'd think
Threedee Shepherd: Is there really a difference?
Geo Netizen: Good question
Solobill Laville: :)
Geo Netizen: What is the difference?
Crusty Goldshark: Choice!
Geo Netizen: Define choice ...
Threedee Shepherd: change arises, then we tell ourselves how it was a choice ^.^
Geo Netizen: vrs response
Geo Netizen smiles
Crusty Goldshark: Unless you are very adept the weather can not be changed but when the lightening strikes you can change your underwaear that is choice
Sylectra Darwin: lol
Sylectra Darwin: yes
Sylectra Darwin: Choice is something you can do, based on your perceptions and your intentions.
Adelene Dawner: Folks, I'm just not up to this. Today has taken even more out of me than I thought it had.
Sylectra Darwin: Okay, Ade, I understand.
Solobill Laville: Be gentle with yourself, Ade :)
Adelene Dawner: I'll see you all around.
Crusty Goldshark: Most people try to change the weather (which they can not change ) instead of their clothing or shell selves . . .
Sylectra Darwin: Thanks again for handleing last week :)
Crusty Goldshark: Be at Peace Ade
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Adelene Dawner" from list.
Threedee Shepherd: Sorry Claire, I don't mean to crush you :>
Claire Beltran: No, it's fine
Sylectra Darwin: Do any of you have another topic you would like to discuss?
Threedee Shepherd: cwhy change?
Threedee Shepherd: *why
Crusty Goldshark: Or we can choose to be or not be crushed by moving but not if a piano falls onus
Sylectra Darwin: ThreeDee, I don't understand your question. Why change?
Threedee Shepherd: By the time you "know" you have moved, you are already done
Crusty Goldshark: True Three
Solobill Laville thinks moving is a wise choice
Crusty Goldshark: But extent of change issometimes conscious and

sometimes small and natural
Threedee Shepherd: Well, we were discussing change and the offer was made to switch to another topic, so I could say at least two different things by saying "why change".
Sylectra Darwin: That was interesting, Three - knowing you have moved. Delayed awareness of your change.
Sylectra Darwin: Ah, a cryptic response.
Geo Netizen still thinks 3D is a definite ‘British Empiricist’
Sylectra Darwin: Why indeed? But then again why not?
Solobill Laville: It's sometimes hard to know where you are, while you're there
Crusty Goldshark: Where areYou?
Crusty Goldshark: or ratherwhere are you now?
Solobill Laville: Depends on the nature of the question, and intent of the questioner :)
Crusty Goldshark: Do we haveto define? Is defining the way that makes us aware of bing - or just a description?
Sylectra Darwin: Crusty, good point. Not always, I would say. What do you all think?
Crusty Goldshark: Solo - it also depends onyour answer and interpretation . . .
Threedee Shepherd: Describe will do
Crusty Goldshark: Are we sitting by afountain?
Crusty Goldshark: Yes and no
Crusty Goldshark: Are we typing or listening? yes and know Where are we?
Geo Netizen: Space is an artifact of 1L (first life)
Solobill Laville: Without space there couldn't be jazz...
Geo Netizen: Why?
Geo Netizen: Does Being require space?
Solobill Laville: no
Solobill Laville: time does though
Geo Netizen: Yes Time does
Threedee Shepherd: No, space requires Being.
Geo Netizen: Does Being require time?
Crusty Goldshark: I don't know if being requires space - i have never been a being without space . . . have you?
Geo Netizen: Ahhh Yes ....
Solobill Laville smiles at Geo
Geo Netizen: Why do you think being requires space?
Geo Netizen: Seems an assumption to me with out support
Claire Beltran: I need to go for now, everyone... see you all and be well ^-^/
Geo Netizen: Good to see you Claire
Solobill Laville: Bye, Claire
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Claire!
Threedee Shepherd: bye
stevenaia Michinaga: bye Claire
Crusty Goldshark: It requires a space to occupy in my experience or ratherthe experience of being is dependent on conditions - without space to occupy theirwould be a void - the void is not something knowable - or I have not known
Crusty Goldshark: Bye
PaB Listener Master: Removing "Claire Beltran" from list.
Geo Netizen: Void is only meaniful in the presence of space
Geo Netizen: No space .... no void
Crusty Goldshark: Perhaps void and space are just concepts rather than experinces - We haveno knowledge of void without space as we are creatures of space
Geo Netizen nods
Sylectra Darwin: I would think that space is only for our human consciousness to visualize, and that Being wouldn't need that constraint.
Sylectra Darwin: Yes, we are creatures of space.
Crusty Goldshark: Concepts or useful experience?
Threedee Shepherd: Space is what keeps everything from being in the same place, just as time keeps everything from happening all at once ;>
Solobill Laville: Everything we are talking about is conceptual, or else we couldn't talk about it...
Crusty Goldshark: Well said Three
Geo Netizen: Change requires time
Geo Netizen: Time requires space
Crusty Goldshark: Some concepts are knowable and experience based and some are like virtual underwear
Geo Netizen: Being need neither
Solobill Laville: One can have knowledge of the non-spacial, in experiential terms, though, Crusty
Geo Netizen: -needs-
Sylectra Darwin: Solobill, how can one have that kind of knowledge?
Crusty Goldshark: Yes Soo agreed - we can have an exp'experience' of void
Solobill Laville: Well, Syl, that is in a very real way what PaB is kind of about
Solobill Laville: And myraid contemplative traditions going back thousands of years (if not longer)
Sylectra Darwin: smiles
Sylectra Darwin: I liek the idea of experiencing, or trying to experience, a void.
Geo Netizen: good zen effort!!
Threedee Shepherd: If we do not have something "like" an experience of the void, why do we have the word/concept. We experience an orange, and their is no tru opposite to conceptualize?
Crusty Goldshark: If we meditate on the internal space that we call 'I', we will find it isvoid - we can not occupy its space
Threedee Shepherd: *there
Sylectra Darwin: Physically you mean? Because when I meditate and visualize anything, I am creating a space in my imagination and experiencing it.
Solobill Laville: I was going to say, Three, to Syl, to perhaps be wary of the concept of "void", just for that reason
Crusty Goldshark: Yes but what is the space or thing that creates that spacce?
Threedee Shepherd: It all gets *changed* when it becomes words. I reaaly do wonder what it is like for a newborn infant?
Geo Netizen: Space is what is required for time
Threedee Shepherd: perhaps the metaphor of spacetime is like that of mindbody
Sylectra Darwin: I don't believe they have the capacity for abstract thought until we teach it to them. But maybe even if we didn't have a language, they would eventually be able to think abstractly after growing to adulthood.
Solobill Laville: And I think there is also a distinction between this idea of "void" or "emptiness" and a realization of what we assume to be "real" but which is not
Sylectra Darwin: There's an agreed-upon reality, yes, Solobill.
Threedee Shepherd: oh, so the void is like the tooth-fairy?
Solobill Laville: As in "Ultimate Nature" vs. "Ego-I"
Crusty Goldshark: The void is like the tooth fairy is not.
Solobill Laville: I'll check under my pillow in the morning
Crusty Goldshark: ;)
Sylectra Darwin: Crusty, you made a NOT joke.
Crusty Goldshark: ;)
Sylectra Darwin: lol
Solobill Laville: hehe
Sylectra Darwin: Borat would be jealous.
Threedee Shepherd: The way that can be known is like an imaginary number!
Crusty Goldshark: Time for me to enterthe void - i will be here but 'away'
Crusty Goldshark: Bye
Threedee Shepherd: Bye
Solobill Laville: Bye, Crusty
Threedee Shepherd: or eyB