2008.12.06 13:00 - Meditation and PaB ... and beatification

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    The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

    I arrived to find Vraja already there and a little surprised to see the automatic recording starting.

    Quilty Bookmite: Hi vraja
    vraja Rexen: did u press record?
    vraja Rexen: hi
    Quilty Bookmite: No. It's automatic.
    vraja Rexen: can you unpress it?
    Quilty Bookmite: Is it a problem? There is a chat starting here soon.
    vraja Rexen: at 1?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm not sure how to unpress it.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
    vraja Rexen: no...
    vraja Rexen: no problem..its just the 2 of us...i didnt see the sense in recording...
    Quilty Bookmite: We don;t use the automatic recording yet. I will record the chat log myself.
    Quilty Bookmite: It's still a work in progress. :-)
    vraja Rexen: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Have you been to these chats before?
    vraja Rexen: yes
    Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: This would normally be Storms spot but I am filling in for him.
    vraja Rexen: oh...
    vraja Rexen: i didnt knew ...
    vraja Rexen: i just normally sit where is a free sopt
    vraja Rexen: spot
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Sorry to disturb your sitting. :-)
    vraja Rexen: am i sitting on somebody's place?
    Quilty Bookmite: No. There is no places. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I meant this time slot.
    Quilty Bookmite: I am acting guardian for this slot because Storm can't make it.
    vraja Rexen: oh...ok...
    vraja Rexen: now i got it
    Quilty Bookmite: Besides, there are plenty of seats. :-)
    vraja Rexen: im kinda slow tonight...
    vraja Rexen: i just woke up
    vraja Rexen: :-0
    I rearrange the seating so that there are fewer seats and no fountain.
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: The place is very flexible thanks to Storms work.
    vraja Rexen: oh..you have a little tale...
    vraja Rexen: cute
    vraja Rexen: i just saw it
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah yes. It's my dancing tail. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: onigokko
    The usual mad dancing round...
    Quilty Bookmite: stop
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    vraja Rexen: tell me something
    Quilty Bookmite: Ask away.
    vraja Rexen: why do people in this game buy land
    vraja Rexen: and dont let other people go in
    vraja Rexen: its kinda mean
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, I haven't bought any land myself.
    Quilty Bookmite: What's mean about it?
    vraja Rexen: i went a couple of days in a place where it said i have 10 seconds to leave the place or if not i will be teleported ]
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Now that IS mean.
    Quilty Bookmite: You can't build anything umless you buy land but most people leave it open for others to use.
    Gaya arrives
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Gaya.
    vraja Rexen: hi
    Quilty Bookmite: vraja, would you like to sit in the middle?
    vraja Rexen: :-))
    Quilty Bookmite: I doubt if there are going to be a lot of people here, so we can have less cushions.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Gaya looks very fetching with a new hair style.
    Quilty Bookmite: New look Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ you like?
    Quilty Bookmite: It really suits you.
    Gaya Ethaniel: oh thank you Quilty very kind ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you both?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm well thank you, although a little weary. My daughter didn;t let me sleep through the night last night.,
    vraja Rexen: how old is your daughter?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
    Quilty Bookmite: We have a large bed so that she can come and sleep next to us but she kept moving me to the very edge. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: 22 months
    Gaya Ethaniel: aaww...
    vraja Rexen: hihi...
    Gaya Ethaniel: And when is the next little one due Quilty?
    Quilty Bookmite: End of Jabuary.
    vraja Rexen: you have a long way ..
    Pila, who I haven't met before, arrives and I subsequently brief him on PaB offline.
    Pila Mulligan: may I join you, please?
    Quilty Bookmite: That's January to everyone else. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Pila, welcome.
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pila. Please have a seat.
    Pila Mulligan: thank you
    Quilty Bookmite: Have you been to these chats before?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Very soon you must be excited ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: Too tired at the moment to be excited.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: I am when I'm not half asleep though. :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^__^

    Becka arrives


    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Becka
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Quilty and everyone
    vraja Rexen: hi
    Quilty Bookmite: I am going to talk to Pila offline and tell them abut PaB.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Becka ^^
    Becka Finesmith: Sorry I'm late
    vraja Rexen: pretty soon you will have to add more pilows
    Becka Finesmith: Hi Gaya.
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you Becka?
    Becka Finesmith: I've been a little under the weather lately :(
    Gaya Ethaniel: aaww...
    Becka Finesmith: I think it might have been chicken pox because I'm coming out in an itchy rash
    Gaya Ethaniel: eh? ah no... hope not
    Becka Finesmith: IS that bad?
    vraja Rexen: you should stay inside just to be on the safe side
    vraja Rexen: i had it when i was a child
    Becka Finesmith: My face looks like the Michelin guy at the moment
    vraja Rexen: pretty itchy
    Becka Finesmith: yes. I've been at home for the week :)
    vraja Rexen: and you shoulnt scratch it...
    vraja Rexen: its very important..no matter how much it aches
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah no... Michelin guy...
    vraja Rexen: it can leave permanent damage
    Becka Finesmith: OK - I'm covered in lotion at the moment to stop the itching
    Becka Finesmith: and I'm taking antihisamine
    Gaya Ethaniel nods... hope it gets better soon Becka
    vraja Rexen: and its also very contagios
    Becka Finesmith: thank you. I heard it's only contagious when the spots come out.
    vraja Rexen: the only good news its that you can only have it once in a lifetime
    vraja Rexen: :-)
    Becka Finesmith: yay :) I never had childhood ilnesses. Not one.
    Becka Finesmith: So anyway - How is everyone?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not as dramatic ^^ well thanks
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, was chatting to Pila. I'm well thank you.
    Becka Finesmith: Is this a Gaurdian meeting?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I'm stand-in guardian.
    Becka Finesmith: Ahh - OK. :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Storm is otherwise engaged.
    Gaya Ethaniel: Next guardian meeting is 7 pm SLT on sat...
    Becka Finesmith: Ahhh - THat's right. I can't usually make that one
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, I'm gettign confused. no, this isn;t a guardian meeting.
    Quilty Bookmite: There is one tomorrow at this time.
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    vraja Rexen: is the SL hour...the normal US hour?anybody knows??
    Becka Finesmith: NP Quilty. I'm getting confused too ;)
    Gaya Ethaniel: SLT vraja
    Becka Finesmith: It's Pacific time
    Becka Finesmith: Vraja
    vraja Rexen: ahhh
    vraja Rexen: ok
    vraja Rexen: yes
    Becka Finesmith: Lag is terrible sorry
    Becka Finesmith: none of you have rezzed yet
    Becka Finesmith: :(
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah. I must have a better connection tonight.
    Pila Mulligan: I also have a very slow connection Becka
    We get down to business...
    Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone have any questions or thoughts on PaB?
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, even if you could see me my expression won't give anything away. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: how many of you combine traditional meditation with PaB practice?
    Quilty Bookmite: I do, probably with more emphasis on traditional meditation.
    Becka Finesmith nods
    Pila Mulligan: I just found PaB but I have done meditation for some time
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do both
    Becka Finesmith: I've not been as good with PaB this past few days.
    vraja Rexen: i should start soon..otherwise it will be very hard in the yoga school im going soon
    Quilty Bookmite: Do you find any conflict between the two Gaya?
    Moon Fargis is Online
    Quilty Bookmite: Are you learning to teach Yoga vraja?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Not that I can think of... I keep things pretty simple even with PaB
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yourself Quilty?
    Quilty Bookmite: Of course. :-)
    vraja Rexen: no...im due to leave for india in a couple of months
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: I did initially. Now I regard them as pretty much the same thing.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Quilty Bookmite: Nice vraja!
    Becka Finesmith: How does your Normal meditation differ? Longer version of the same?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, although I tend to think of PaB as a short version of meditation. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: FOr me, I try to clear my mind on normaly meditation but I let my mind wander with PaB
    Quilty Bookmite: I don't think everyone sees PaB as a meditation practice.
    Becka Finesmith: what would be the alternative way to describe it?
    Pila Mulligan: pausing?
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Just stopping what you are doing.
    Pila Mulligan: tarrying?
    Becka Finesmith: yes
    Quilty Bookmite: I would tend to avoid the word meditaiton when describing PaB to a newcomer. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: really? Why would you avoid it?
    Quilty Bookmite: I think it is best if people find their own approach. Not sure if that is what is intended.
    Becka Finesmith: ok
    Quilty Bookmite: Since PaB is an experiment, maybe part of the experiment is to see how different people approach it.
    Becka Finesmith: that's true
    Quilty Bookmite: Some of us have a background of meditation so would naturally see it as a meditation practice.
    Becka Finesmith: sure
    Gaya Ethaniel: [will IM Sheila]
    Becka Finesmith: nods @ Gaya
    Quilty Bookmite: If you don;t have that background then maybe saying it is a meditation practice is to prejudice someone.
    Quilty Bookmite: I already did Gaya.
    Pila Mulligan: 9 seconds is pretty brief for meditaiton :)
    Becka Finesmith: true.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, wasn't following the protocol. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes it is. That was what I found initially challenging.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
    Pila Mulligan: hello sheila
    Becka Finesmith: HI Sheila
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ didn't want to stop the flow you were in Quilty
    Quilty Bookmite: However, since my background is Zen, I find it helps to bring a meditative frame of mind into everyday life.
    Quilty Bookmite: Thank you Gaya. :-) Please carry on.
    Becka Finesmith: yes. I like to think just slowing down is enough some days
    Gaya Ethaniel: ok ^^
    Becka Finesmith: I have been practising Tai Chi
    Quilty Bookmite: It certainly makes a big difference Becka.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire is Online
    Becka Finesmith: and often I will just run through some of the movements in my head as a form of Meditation
    Quilty Bookmite: Tai Chi is great. I used to do it before my daughter was born.
    Pila Mulligan: tai chi is also part of my practice
    Becka Finesmith: I think it's one of the most relaxing things (mind-wise) you can do
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvi
    Pila Mulligan: have you ever done it while dreaming? that is fun :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: HIya!
    vraja Rexen: hi corvi
    Becka Finesmith: HI Corvi
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Corvi ^^
    Quilty Bookmite: I may have to magic the seats back at this rate. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Been playing Corvi?
    Becka Finesmith: I was goiong to ask the same thing
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh! Yes.
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: early today...
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone see PaB as something other than a form of meditation?
    Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Honestly..I'm not sure what meditation is..
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe it is a distinction that doesn't need to be made. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Good point Corvi.
    Pila Mulligan: it seems like a game to remind us of awareness more than meditation
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ too hard on my wee brain Quilty perhaps not
    vraja Rexen: i see it as a break away from my current life
    vraja Rexen: so i guess its a form of meditation as well
    Quilty Bookmite: Like a miniature holiday vraja?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^__^
    vraja Rexen: yes..exactly
    Becka Finesmith: what a great way to describe it :)
    Quilty Bookmite: :-)
    Becka Finesmith: PLay at Break
    Quilty Bookmite: I sometimes see meditation that way.
    Quilty Bookmite: Sometimes it's not nearly so easy though. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: Anything that allows time to flow seems like a meditation
    Becka Finesmith: something you can lose yourself in
    Becka Finesmith: in a real sense I gues "Lose your self"
    Gaya Ethaniel: Alas, I'm called else where. Hope you all have a good day/evening.
    Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Gaya.
    Pila Mulligan: bye Gaya
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Gaya :)
    vraja Rexen: yess and its all up to you how long you want to loose your self in
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Gaya!
    Becka Finesmith: yes.
    Becka Finesmith: There is a fine line between 9 seonds being a help or a distraction in it's own right
    Becka Finesmith: *seconds
    Quilty Bookmite: Losing yourself can be understood in different ways, as Becka has suggested.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: I think in the obvious sense, I don;t see meditation that way. Too much like getting distracted or drifting off.
    Quilty Bookmite: I know some forms of meditaiton can be like that. Zen is quite the opposite.
    Becka Finesmith: what is different about Zen?
    Quilty Bookmite: PaB is, of course, what you make it. :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: In Zen, there is nothing to focus on, no visualisation.
    Becka Finesmith nods
    Quilty Bookmite: So the mind has to simply focus without a point of focus.
    Becka Finesmith: ok - I didn't realise that was called "Zen" I think that's what I try to do when I meditate
    Becka Finesmith: I initially focus on breathing, then remove even that
    Quilty Bookmite: Well, Zen is essentially very simple. What you are doing sounds very like Zen Becka.
    Pila Mulligan: there are many traditional schools of meditation, some practices have names, some are without names
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: what makes something "meditation" vs "not meditation?"
    Pila Mulligan: the eye of the beholder? :)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: haha
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, and maybe there is a truth so fundamental that people often find it without someone there to guide them.
    Pila Mulligan: the cobbler may reach the same end by making shoes
    Quilty Bookmite: I think meditaiton is a label applied to a wide range of practices Corvi. Hard to say what they have in common.
    Quilty Bookmite: I like that Pila.
    vraja Rexen: i must leave now to my other form of meditation...party-ing
    Becka Finesmith: "Continuous or profound contemplation" is one definition I found
    vraja Rexen: nice 2 see u guys
    Quilty Bookmite: Have fun vraja. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: Have fun Vraja
    vraja Rexen: 10x
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye
    Pila Mulligan: thye have three elements in common, in m yobservation: posture, breathing and some form ofcontemplation
    Sheila Tammas: thank you for enjoy your meditation. have fun. bye
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Shiela
    Pila Mulligan: bye sheila and vraja
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye Shiela
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Sheila and Vraja
    Becka Finesmith: SO when I study I kind of meditate
    Becka Finesmith: I lose my self, I lose a sense of time,
    Quilty Bookmite: Studying can be a very focussed state, yes.
    Fugue states...
    Quilty Bookmite: Psychologists call it a fugue state.
    Becka Finesmith: They have a name for eveything ;)
    Quilty Bookmite: In my form of meditation you tend to be very aware of time and what is happening around you.
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes they do. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: that's interesting
    Pila Mulligan: hello Pema
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Is that focused state the same as fugue?
    Pema arrives
    Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pema.
    Pema Pera: Hi everyone!
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think of them as opposites.
    Becka Finesmith waves at Pema
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: fugue being a wrapped in wool felt thing.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and the other as being...unwrapped.
    Quilty Bookmite: Pema, we are discussing the commonality or lack of it between PaB and meditation.
    Becka Finesmith: and the definition of Meditation
    Quilty Bookmite: Fugue is where the mind focusses on one thing and can't easily be distracted from it.
    Becka Finesmith: I think Pema has ascended - All I can see is a glwoing orb
    Becka Finesmith: *glowing
    Quilty Bookmite: Studying is one form but anger can also be a fugue state.
    Becka Finesmith: interesting
    Quilty Bookmite: He will resolve in time. He hasn't been beatified yet. :-)
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Pema Pera: so fugue is being fixated, or being vague, or both?
    Pema Pera: hehe, Quilty
    Becka Finesmith: SOunds like fixated?
    Quilty Bookmite: More fixated really.
    Becka Finesmith: absorbed
    Pila Mulligan: watch the monkey, miss the elephant :)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: You ever tried to talk to someone who is really angry and realised they aren't listening to what you say?
    Pema Pera: all the time
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes Pila. :-)
    Pema Pera: inlcuding talking to myself sometimes
    Becka Finesmith: People do that to me even when they aren't angry ;)
    Quilty Bookmite: That's what a fugue state is all about.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
    Becka Finesmith: especially my boss
    Pema Pera: so we are all in fugue states . . .
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes, you can be focussed in on anything.
    Pema Pera: to some degree
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is more like what I think of as fugue
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: but from the inside..it feels more like wool
    Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
    Pila Mulligan: how do you pronounce fuque?
    Quilty Bookmite: I'm probably in a fugue state staring at my computer. If my wife talks to me I often don't hear her.
    Becka Finesmith: is it Fooogoo?
    Quilty Bookmite: fugue
    Pema Pera: ah, it is defensive, you lock up inside your cozy wool coat?
    Quilty Bookmite: fyug
    Quilty Bookmite: sorry, fyoog
    Pila Mulligan: thanks
    Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Quilty about the computer staring...fugue!
    Quilty Bookmite: It can be defensive I suppose.
    Quilty Bookmite: It can also just be concentration.
    Pila Mulligan: isn't it also a music term?
    Pema Pera: I was thinking about that too, like those by Bach :-)
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I think that's where it came from.
    Quilty Bookmite: Fugue is a funeral march, I think.
    Pila Mulligan: ahh
    Becka Finesmith: fugue n. Music. An imitative polyphonic composition in which a theme or themes are stated successively in all of the voices of the contrapuntal.
    Quilty Bookmite: I may be wrong about that.
    Becka Finesmith: None the wiser - Clear as mud
    Quilty Bookmite: Ah.
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    Pila Mulligan: dee dde do deet do da da
    Becka Finesmith: Contrapuntal? Going against the Punt?
    Becka Finesmith: :)
    Quilty Bookmite: Makes much more sense now. :-)
    Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: well.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: none at all to me!
    Pema Pera: so what was your conclusion about the relationship between PaB and meditation, similarities and differences?
    Quilty Bookmite: I think it means something quite different in psychology. Not sure why they chose that word.
    Becka Finesmith: psychogenic fugue - dissociative disorder in which a person forgets who they are and leaves home to creates a new life; during the fugue there is no memory of the former life; after recovering there is no memory for events during the dissociative state
    Becka Finesmith: SOunds Bad :(
    Pema Pera: We'll need Sonic to enlighten us on fugues musically, I guess
    Quilty Bookmite: I think PaB is what you make it. For some it is a form of meditation. For others something different.
    Pila Mulligan: my opinion is that 9 seconds is too breif to be meditation, but a nice moment of pause or tarrying
    Pema Pera: I like tarrying!
    Quilty Bookmite: I think that is an extreme form Becka.
    Becka Finesmith: must tarry more
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: fugue..is dissociation..
    Delilahlee Westland is Online
    Becka Finesmith nods @ Quilty
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: and...disconnect, I think.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: which CAN be concentration.
    Becka Finesmith: Power down - Reboot
    Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I don't think that that describes meditation. At least not for me.
    Quilty Bookmite: Or PaB for that matter.
    Becka Finesmith: no - me neither
    Becka Finesmith: I have to go now I'm afraid. It's been really interesting :)
    Pema Pera: Bye Becka!
    Becka Finesmith: Sorry I can't make the next Gaurdian meeting :(
    Pila Mulligan: good luck with your rash Becka
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. Bye Becka.
    Becka Finesmith: See you soon.
    Pila Mulligan: bye
    Becka Finesmith: thanks Pila
    Pema Pera: perhaps fugue is what you wake up from in PaB and in meditation
    Becka Finesmith: namaste
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Becka
    Quilty Bookmite: Namaste
    Becka Finesmith: Bye Corvi
    Pila Mulligan: baraka
    Quilty Bookmite: Maybe it's time for me to wrap up. I'd have to go in a couple of minutes.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think of 9 seconds as being moments out of fugue state.
    Quilty Bookmite: I should be at tomorrows guardian meeting.
    Pema Pera: And in a couple minutes I'll hop over to the Kira Cafe, for the Happy Hour
    Pema Pera: yes, Corvi!!
    Quilty Bookmite: Indeed Corvi.
    Pila Mulligan: bye Quilty, nice to meet you
    Quilty Bookmite: Have one for me Pema.
    Pema Pera: By Quilty!
    Pema Pera: *bye
    Pila Mulligan: what happens at happy hour, pema?
    Quilty Bookmite: Good to meet you Pila. Hope to see you again.
    Quilty Bookmite: Bye all.
    Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Quilty!
    Pila Mulligan: thank you, same same

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