2008.12.06 13:00 - Meditation and PaB ... and beatification

The guardian for this session was Quilty Bookmite. The comments are his.

I arrived to find Vraja already there and a little surprised to see the automatic recording starting.

Quilty Bookmite: Hi vraja
vraja Rexen: did u press record?
vraja Rexen: hi
Quilty Bookmite: No. It's automatic.
vraja Rexen: can you unpress it?
Quilty Bookmite: Is it a problem? There is a chat starting here soon.
vraja Rexen: at 1?
Quilty Bookmite: I'm not sure how to unpress it.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes.
vraja Rexen: no...
vraja Rexen: no problem..its just the 2 of us...i didnt see the sense in recording...
Quilty Bookmite: We don;t use the automatic recording yet. I will record the chat log myself.
Quilty Bookmite: It's still a work in progress. :-)
vraja Rexen: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Have you been to these chats before?
vraja Rexen: yes
Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: This would normally be Storms spot but I am filling in for him.
vraja Rexen: oh...
vraja Rexen: i didnt knew ...
vraja Rexen: i just normally sit where is a free sopt
vraja Rexen: spot
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Sorry to disturb your sitting. :-)
vraja Rexen: am i sitting on somebody's place?
Quilty Bookmite: No. There is no places. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I meant this time slot.
Quilty Bookmite: I am acting guardian for this slot because Storm can't make it.
vraja Rexen: oh...ok...
vraja Rexen: now i got it
Quilty Bookmite: Besides, there are plenty of seats. :-)
vraja Rexen: im kinda slow tonight...
vraja Rexen: i just woke up
vraja Rexen: :-0

I rearrange the seating so that there are fewer seats and no fountain.

Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: The place is very flexible thanks to Storms work.
vraja Rexen: oh..you have a little tale...
vraja Rexen: cute
vraja Rexen: i just saw it
Quilty Bookmite: Ah yes. It's my dancing tail. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: onigokko

The usual mad dancing round...

Quilty Bookmite: stop
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
vraja Rexen: tell me something
Quilty Bookmite: Ask away.
vraja Rexen: why do people in this game buy land
vraja Rexen: and dont let other people go in
vraja Rexen: its kinda mean
Quilty Bookmite: Well, I haven't bought any land myself.
Quilty Bookmite: What's mean about it?
vraja Rexen: i went a couple of days in a place where it said i have 10 seconds to leave the place or if not i will be teleported ]
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. Now that IS mean.
Quilty Bookmite: You can't build anything umless you buy land but most people leave it open for others to use.

Gaya arrives

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Gaya.
vraja Rexen: hi
Quilty Bookmite: vraja, would you like to sit in the middle?
vraja Rexen: :-))
Quilty Bookmite: I doubt if there are going to be a lot of people here, so we can have less cushions.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_

Gaya looks very fetching with a new hair style.

Quilty Bookmite: New look Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ you like?
Quilty Bookmite: It really suits you.
Gaya Ethaniel: oh thank you Quilty very kind ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you both?
Quilty Bookmite: I'm well thank you, although a little weary. My daughter didn;t let me sleep through the night last night.,
vraja Rexen: how old is your daughter?
Gaya Ethaniel: ah...
Quilty Bookmite: We have a large bed so that she can come and sleep next to us but she kept moving me to the very edge. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: 22 months
Gaya Ethaniel: aaww...
vraja Rexen: hihi...
Gaya Ethaniel: And when is the next little one due Quilty?
Quilty Bookmite: End of Jabuary.
vraja Rexen: you have a long way ..

Pila, who I haven't met before, arrives and I subsequently brief him on PaB offline.

Pila Mulligan: may I join you, please?
Quilty Bookmite: That's January to everyone else. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: Sure Pila, welcome.
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pila. Please have a seat.
Pila Mulligan: thank you
Quilty Bookmite: Have you been to these chats before?
Gaya Ethaniel: Very soon you must be excited ^^
Quilty Bookmite: Too tired at the moment to be excited.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... ^^
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I am when I'm not half asleep though. :-)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^__^

Becka arrives

  

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Becka
Becka Finesmith: Hi Quilty and everyone
vraja Rexen: hi
Quilty Bookmite: I am going to talk to Pila offline and tell them abut PaB.
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Becka ^^
Becka Finesmith: Sorry I'm late
vraja Rexen: pretty soon you will have to add more pilows
Becka Finesmith: Hi Gaya.
Gaya Ethaniel: How are you Becka?
Becka Finesmith: I've been a little under the weather lately :(
Gaya Ethaniel: aaww...
Becka Finesmith: I think it might have been chicken pox because I'm coming out in an itchy rash
Gaya Ethaniel: eh? ah no... hope not
Becka Finesmith: IS that bad?
vraja Rexen: you should stay inside just to be on the safe side
vraja Rexen: i had it when i was a child
Becka Finesmith: My face looks like the Michelin guy at the moment
vraja Rexen: pretty itchy
Becka Finesmith: yes. I've been at home for the week :)
vraja Rexen: and you shoulnt scratch it...
vraja Rexen: its very important..no matter how much it aches
Gaya Ethaniel: ah no... Michelin guy...
vraja Rexen: it can leave permanent damage
Becka Finesmith: OK - I'm covered in lotion at the moment to stop the itching
Becka Finesmith: and I'm taking antihisamine
Gaya Ethaniel nods... hope it gets better soon Becka
vraja Rexen: and its also very contagios
Becka Finesmith: thank you. I heard it's only contagious when the spots come out.
vraja Rexen: the only good news its that you can only have it once in a lifetime
vraja Rexen: :-)
Becka Finesmith: yay :) I never had childhood ilnesses. Not one.
Becka Finesmith: So anyway - How is everyone?
Gaya Ethaniel: Not as dramatic ^^ well thanks
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, was chatting to Pila. I'm well thank you.
Becka Finesmith: Is this a Gaurdian meeting?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I'm stand-in guardian.
Becka Finesmith: Ahh - OK. :)
Quilty Bookmite: Storm is otherwise engaged.
Gaya Ethaniel: Next guardian meeting is 7 pm SLT on sat...
Becka Finesmith: Ahhh - THat's right. I can't usually make that one
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, I'm gettign confused. no, this isn;t a guardian meeting.
Quilty Bookmite: There is one tomorrow at this time.
Gaya Ethaniel nods
vraja Rexen: is the SL hour...the normal US hour?anybody knows??
Becka Finesmith: NP Quilty. I'm getting confused too ;)
Gaya Ethaniel: SLT vraja
Becka Finesmith: It's Pacific time
Becka Finesmith: Vraja
vraja Rexen: ahhh
vraja Rexen: ok
vraja Rexen: yes
Becka Finesmith: Lag is terrible sorry
Becka Finesmith: none of you have rezzed yet
Becka Finesmith: :(
Quilty Bookmite: Ah. I must have a better connection tonight.
Pila Mulligan: I also have a very slow connection Becka

We get down to business...

Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone have any questions or thoughts on PaB?
Quilty Bookmite: Well, even if you could see me my expression won't give anything away. :-)
Becka Finesmith: how many of you combine traditional meditation with PaB practice?
Quilty Bookmite: I do, probably with more emphasis on traditional meditation.
Becka Finesmith nods
Pila Mulligan: I just found PaB but I have done meditation for some time
Gaya Ethaniel: Do both
Becka Finesmith: I've not been as good with PaB this past few days.
vraja Rexen: i should start soon..otherwise it will be very hard in the yoga school im going soon
Quilty Bookmite: Do you find any conflict between the two Gaya?
Moon Fargis is Online
Quilty Bookmite: Are you learning to teach Yoga vraja?
Gaya Ethaniel: Not that I can think of... I keep things pretty simple even with PaB
Gaya Ethaniel: Yourself Quilty?
Quilty Bookmite: Of course. :-)
vraja Rexen: no...im due to leave for india in a couple of months
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Quilty Bookmite: I did initially. Now I regard them as pretty much the same thing.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Quilty Bookmite: Nice vraja!
Becka Finesmith: How does your Normal meditation differ? Longer version of the same?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, although I tend to think of PaB as a short version of meditation. :-)
Becka Finesmith: FOr me, I try to clear my mind on normaly meditation but I let my mind wander with PaB
Quilty Bookmite: I don't think everyone sees PaB as a meditation practice.
Becka Finesmith: what would be the alternative way to describe it?
Pila Mulligan: pausing?
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. Just stopping what you are doing.
Pila Mulligan: tarrying?
Becka Finesmith: yes
Quilty Bookmite: I would tend to avoid the word meditaiton when describing PaB to a newcomer. :-)
Becka Finesmith: really? Why would you avoid it?
Quilty Bookmite: I think it is best if people find their own approach. Not sure if that is what is intended.
Becka Finesmith: ok
Quilty Bookmite: Since PaB is an experiment, maybe part of the experiment is to see how different people approach it.
Becka Finesmith: that's true
Quilty Bookmite: Some of us have a background of meditation so would naturally see it as a meditation practice.
Becka Finesmith: sure
Gaya Ethaniel: [will IM Sheila]
Becka Finesmith: nods @ Gaya
Quilty Bookmite: If you don;t have that background then maybe saying it is a meditation practice is to prejudice someone.
Quilty Bookmite: I already did Gaya.
Pila Mulligan: 9 seconds is pretty brief for meditaiton :)
Becka Finesmith: true.
Quilty Bookmite: Sorry, wasn't following the protocol. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Yes it is. That was what I found initially challenging.
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok
Pila Mulligan: hello sheila
Becka Finesmith: HI Sheila
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ didn't want to stop the flow you were in Quilty
Quilty Bookmite: However, since my background is Zen, I find it helps to bring a meditative frame of mind into everyday life.
Quilty Bookmite: Thank you Gaya. :-) Please carry on.
Becka Finesmith: yes. I like to think just slowing down is enough some days
Gaya Ethaniel: ok ^^
Becka Finesmith: I have been practising Tai Chi
Quilty Bookmite: It certainly makes a big difference Becka.
Corvuscorva Nightfire is Online
Becka Finesmith: and often I will just run through some of the movements in my head as a form of Meditation
Quilty Bookmite: Tai Chi is great. I used to do it before my daughter was born.
Pila Mulligan: tai chi is also part of my practice
Becka Finesmith: I think it's one of the most relaxing things (mind-wise) you can do
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Corvi
Pila Mulligan: have you ever done it while dreaming? that is fun :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: HIya!
vraja Rexen: hi corvi
Becka Finesmith: HI Corvi
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Corvi ^^
Quilty Bookmite: I may have to magic the seats back at this rate. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Been playing Corvi?
Becka Finesmith: I was goiong to ask the same thing
Becka Finesmith: :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: oh! Yes.
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Corvuscorva Nightfire: early today...
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone see PaB as something other than a form of meditation?
Gaya Ethaniel ponders...
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Honestly..I'm not sure what meditation is..
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe it is a distinction that doesn't need to be made. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Good point Corvi.
Pila Mulligan: it seems like a game to remind us of awareness more than meditation
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ too hard on my wee brain Quilty perhaps not
vraja Rexen: i see it as a break away from my current life
vraja Rexen: so i guess its a form of meditation as well
Quilty Bookmite: Like a miniature holiday vraja?
Gaya Ethaniel: ^__^
vraja Rexen: yes..exactly
Becka Finesmith: what a great way to describe it :)
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Becka Finesmith: PLay at Break
Quilty Bookmite: I sometimes see meditation that way.
Quilty Bookmite: Sometimes it's not nearly so easy though. :-)
Becka Finesmith: Anything that allows time to flow seems like a meditation
Becka Finesmith: something you can lose yourself in
Becka Finesmith: in a real sense I gues "Lose your self"
Gaya Ethaniel: Alas, I'm called else where. Hope you all have a good day/evening.
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Bye Gaya.
Pila Mulligan: bye Gaya
Becka Finesmith: Bye Gaya :)
vraja Rexen: yess and its all up to you how long you want to loose your self in
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye, Gaya!
Becka Finesmith: yes.
Becka Finesmith: There is a fine line between 9 seonds being a help or a distraction in it's own right
Becka Finesmith: *seconds
Quilty Bookmite: Losing yourself can be understood in different ways, as Becka has suggested.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Quilty Bookmite: I think in the obvious sense, I don;t see meditation that way. Too much like getting distracted or drifting off.
Quilty Bookmite: I know some forms of meditaiton can be like that. Zen is quite the opposite.
Becka Finesmith: what is different about Zen?
Quilty Bookmite: PaB is, of course, what you make it. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: In Zen, there is nothing to focus on, no visualisation.
Becka Finesmith nods
Quilty Bookmite: So the mind has to simply focus without a point of focus.
Becka Finesmith: ok - I didn't realise that was called "Zen" I think that's what I try to do when I meditate
Becka Finesmith: I initially focus on breathing, then remove even that
Quilty Bookmite: Well, Zen is essentially very simple. What you are doing sounds very like Zen Becka.
Pila Mulligan: there are many traditional schools of meditation, some practices have names, some are without names
Corvuscorva Nightfire: what makes something "meditation" vs "not meditation?"
Pila Mulligan: the eye of the beholder? :)
Corvuscorva Nightfire: haha
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, and maybe there is a truth so fundamental that people often find it without someone there to guide them.
Pila Mulligan: the cobbler may reach the same end by making shoes
Quilty Bookmite: I think meditaiton is a label applied to a wide range of practices Corvi. Hard to say what they have in common.
Quilty Bookmite: I like that Pila.
vraja Rexen: i must leave now to my other form of meditation...party-ing
Becka Finesmith: "Continuous or profound contemplation" is one definition I found
vraja Rexen: nice 2 see u guys
Quilty Bookmite: Have fun vraja. :-)
Becka Finesmith: Have fun Vraja
vraja Rexen: 10x
Quilty Bookmite: Bye
Pila Mulligan: thye have three elements in common, in m yobservation: posture, breathing and some form ofcontemplation
Sheila Tammas: thank you for enjoy your meditation. have fun. bye
Becka Finesmith: Bye Shiela
Pila Mulligan: bye sheila and vraja
Quilty Bookmite: Bye Shiela
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Sheila and Vraja
Becka Finesmith: SO when I study I kind of meditate
Becka Finesmith: I lose my self, I lose a sense of time,
Quilty Bookmite: Studying can be a very focussed state, yes.

Fugue states...

Quilty Bookmite: Psychologists call it a fugue state.
Becka Finesmith: They have a name for eveything ;)
Quilty Bookmite: In my form of meditation you tend to be very aware of time and what is happening around you.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes they do. :-)
Becka Finesmith: that's interesting
Pila Mulligan: hello Pema
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Is that focused state the same as fugue?

Pema arrives

Quilty Bookmite: Hi Pema.
Pema Pera: Hi everyone!
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think of them as opposites.
Becka Finesmith waves at Pema
Corvuscorva Nightfire: fugue being a wrapped in wool felt thing.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and the other as being...unwrapped.
Quilty Bookmite: Pema, we are discussing the commonality or lack of it between PaB and meditation.
Becka Finesmith: and the definition of Meditation
Quilty Bookmite: Fugue is where the mind focusses on one thing and can't easily be distracted from it.
Becka Finesmith: I think Pema has ascended - All I can see is a glwoing orb
Becka Finesmith: *glowing
Quilty Bookmite: Studying is one form but anger can also be a fugue state.
Becka Finesmith: interesting
Quilty Bookmite: He will resolve in time. He hasn't been beatified yet. :-)
Becka Finesmith: :)
Pema Pera: so fugue is being fixated, or being vague, or both?
Pema Pera: hehe, Quilty
Becka Finesmith: SOunds like fixated?
Quilty Bookmite: More fixated really.
Becka Finesmith: absorbed
Pila Mulligan: watch the monkey, miss the elephant :)
Pema Pera: :)
Quilty Bookmite: You ever tried to talk to someone who is really angry and realised they aren't listening to what you say?
Pema Pera: all the time
Quilty Bookmite: Yes Pila. :-)
Pema Pera: inlcuding talking to myself sometimes
Becka Finesmith: People do that to me even when they aren't angry ;)
Quilty Bookmite: That's what a fugue state is all about.
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods.
Becka Finesmith: especially my boss
Pema Pera: so we are all in fugue states . . .
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, you can be focussed in on anything.
Pema Pera: to some degree
Corvuscorva Nightfire: that is more like what I think of as fugue
Corvuscorva Nightfire: but from the inside..it feels more like wool
Corvuscorva Nightfire smiles.
Pila Mulligan: how do you pronounce fuque?
Quilty Bookmite: I'm probably in a fugue state staring at my computer. If my wife talks to me I often don't hear her.
Becka Finesmith: is it Fooogoo?
Quilty Bookmite: fugue
Pema Pera: ah, it is defensive, you lock up inside your cozy wool coat?
Quilty Bookmite: fyug
Quilty Bookmite: sorry, fyoog
Pila Mulligan: thanks
Corvuscorva Nightfire nods to Quilty about the computer staring...fugue!
Quilty Bookmite: It can be defensive I suppose.
Quilty Bookmite: It can also just be concentration.
Pila Mulligan: isn't it also a music term?
Pema Pera: I was thinking about that too, like those by Bach :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I think that's where it came from.
Quilty Bookmite: Fugue is a funeral march, I think.
Pila Mulligan: ahh
Becka Finesmith: fugue n. Music. An imitative polyphonic composition in which a theme or themes are stated successively in all of the voices of the contrapuntal.
Quilty Bookmite: I may be wrong about that.
Becka Finesmith: None the wiser - Clear as mud
Quilty Bookmite: Ah.
Pila Mulligan: :)
Pila Mulligan: dee dde do deet do da da
Becka Finesmith: Contrapuntal? Going against the Punt?
Becka Finesmith: :)
Quilty Bookmite: Makes much more sense now. :-)
Corvuscorva Nightfire laughs..
Corvuscorva Nightfire: well.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: none at all to me!
Pema Pera: so what was your conclusion about the relationship between PaB and meditation, similarities and differences?
Quilty Bookmite: I think it means something quite different in psychology. Not sure why they chose that word.
Becka Finesmith: psychogenic fugue - dissociative disorder in which a person forgets who they are and leaves home to creates a new life; during the fugue there is no memory of the former life; after recovering there is no memory for events during the dissociative state
Becka Finesmith: SOunds Bad :(
Pema Pera: We'll need Sonic to enlighten us on fugues musically, I guess
Quilty Bookmite: I think PaB is what you make it. For some it is a form of meditation. For others something different.
Pila Mulligan: my opinion is that 9 seconds is too breif to be meditation, but a nice moment of pause or tarrying
Pema Pera: I like tarrying!
Quilty Bookmite: I think that is an extreme form Becka.
Becka Finesmith: must tarry more
Corvuscorva Nightfire: fugue..is dissociation..
Delilahlee Westland is Online
Becka Finesmith nods @ Quilty
Corvuscorva Nightfire: and...disconnect, I think.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: which CAN be concentration.
Becka Finesmith: Power down - Reboot
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. I don't think that that describes meditation. At least not for me.
Quilty Bookmite: Or PaB for that matter.
Becka Finesmith: no - me neither
Becka Finesmith: I have to go now I'm afraid. It's been really interesting :)
Pema Pera: Bye Becka!
Becka Finesmith: Sorry I can't make the next Gaurdian meeting :(
Pila Mulligan: good luck with your rash Becka
Quilty Bookmite: Indeed. Bye Becka.
Becka Finesmith: See you soon.
Pila Mulligan: bye
Becka Finesmith: thanks Pila
Pema Pera: perhaps fugue is what you wake up from in PaB and in meditation
Becka Finesmith: namaste
Corvuscorva Nightfire: bye Becka
Quilty Bookmite: Namaste
Becka Finesmith: Bye Corvi
Pila Mulligan: baraka
Quilty Bookmite: Maybe it's time for me to wrap up. I'd have to go in a couple of minutes.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: I think of 9 seconds as being moments out of fugue state.
Quilty Bookmite: I should be at tomorrows guardian meeting.
Pema Pera: And in a couple minutes I'll hop over to the Kira Cafe, for the Happy Hour
Pema Pera: yes, Corvi!!
Quilty Bookmite: Indeed Corvi.
Pila Mulligan: bye Quilty, nice to meet you
Quilty Bookmite: Have one for me Pema.
Pema Pera: By Quilty!
Pema Pera: *bye
Pila Mulligan: what happens at happy hour, pema?
Quilty Bookmite: Good to meet you Pila. Hope to see you again.
Quilty Bookmite: Bye all.
Corvuscorva Nightfire: Bye, Quilty!
Pila Mulligan: thank you, same same