2008.12.13 19:00 - Something of a Miracle

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    Stim was the guardian that night, but I, Pema, put up the log and provided the comments and title. When I entered, I found Stim and Adelene already in the pavilion.

    Adelene Dawner hmms at the 'one point' idea... hm?
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Pem!
    Stim Morane: Hi Pema
    Pema Pera: Hi Adelene and Stim!
    Stim Morane: Adelene, it's probably just a render issue.
    Adelene Dawner: ohhh
    Stim Morane: Hi Riddle
    Adelene Dawner: :)
    Adelene Dawner: Hi Riddle, Pila
    Pema Pera: Hi Riddle!
    Riddle Sideways: hi everybody
    Pema Pera: And hi Pila!
    Stim Morane: Hi Pila
    Pila Mulligan: greetings :)
    Stim Morane: I’m doing a Ch’an retreat this weekend, and am a bit tired, so I will only stay for a half-hour (i.e., half-past the hour).
    Riddle Sideways: not sure how long my connection will hold

    After Riddle and Pila entered, it was silent for quite a while, so I posed a question. Hana then joined us too, with a nice group label: "Classy, well-spoken"

    Pema Pera: Would anyone like to bring up a topic?
    Riddle Sideways: so many topics already goin in email :)
    Pema Pera: sure :)
    Riddle Sideways: perceptive / point of view in one of my favs
    Pema Pera: can you say more?
    Riddle Sideways: starting at the end of others paths
    Riddle Sideways: building on thousands of years of history experimentation, ...
    Pema Pera: Hi well-spoken Hana :-)
    Hana Hendrassen: hello :)
    Riddle Sideways: woooowwww nice entrance
    Hana Hendrassen laughs
    Riddle Sideways: many times I wish I could leave trails as I enter a room
    Pila Mulligan: hi Hana
    Pema Pera: like bread crumbs?
    Hana Hendrassen: trails?
    Riddle Sideways: ... I saw trails of light dots
    Hana Hendrassen: oh? I didn't see those ^_^
    Pema Pera: Riddle, you mentioned viewpoints and thousands of years of history . . . can yo say more?
    Riddle Sideways: meanwhile, back at the topic
    Riddle Sideways: long ago Piet wrote about placing oneself ahead of time
    Riddle Sideways: what would science look like 100 years from now
    Riddle Sideways: if we just took for granted that advances would advance
    Riddle Sideways: if we/I put myselfg there for a wile
    Riddle Sideways: [keyboard is going dead]
    Riddle Sideways: what do we/I see
    Riddle Sideways: hello Susi
    Pema Pera: Hi Susi!
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Stim Morane: Hi Susi
    Pila Mulligan: hi susi
    Hana Hendrassen: Hi Susi :)

    Susi joined us, so there were seven of us.

    Susi Alcott: hi riddle, Pema, Stim, Adelene, Hana, Pila
    Pema Pera: btw, Riddle, I was just writing on those topics you mentioned, on http://playasbeing.wik.is/PaB_Book/0._Questions
    Pema Pera: finally found some time to continue my book writing project
    Pema Pera: I hope to work on it over the holidays, make some real progress (hope springs eternal)
    Riddle Sideways is amazed at the many more hours that Pema can find in one day
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Riddle Sideways: doing the mental exercise to juxtaposing oneself to different times
    Riddle Sideways: then viewing the same / simular events
    Susi Alcott: 25 with the lunch hour
    Riddle Sideways: is soooo fascinating
    Pema Pera: :)
    Riddle Sideways: putting oneself at the time/place where all knowledge is know
    Riddle Sideways: and then asking what now
    Riddle Sideways: seeing how we would live

    Yes, looking at the present from different perspective, either from different cultures at the same time, or from the same culture but from very different times, can be very interesting.

    Pema Pera: we use so very little of all the degrees of freedom we have access too . . . . even just thought experience like what you just mentioned can do a lot, and even more so real shifts in seeing
    Pema Pera: Pila just sent me a very interesting email, that I hope he will send to the whole group
    Pema Pera: about breathing, about epoche, and about shifts in general
    Pema Pera: Hi Anonymous!
    Pema Pera: come join us if you like
    Anonymous: hi
    Pila Mulligan: at the moment I'm contemplating controversy about starting at the end of others paths, or having special access “to the end”
    Riddle Sideways: general sciences base on the Observer
    Riddle Sideways: music/art bases on the listener/viewer
    Riddle Sideways: those can and do shift all the time
    Pema Pera: Anonymous, feel free to sit down. We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Anonymous: I'm not sure yet
    Riddle Sideways: ok
    Susi Alcott: hi Anonymous
    Pema Pera: Pila, "starting" is an unfortunate term, I should have said "being"
    Pema Pera: and it is not a question of special access
    Pila Mulligan: why would a traditional practitioner take offense at an animated chat site's approach to discussing things? Second Life is a place for discussion. It is not posible to conjure up and inject decades of practice into our SL avis, but there is the possibility of discussing things that have envolved from years of practice even while the people in the discussion have not done those years themselves.

    Pila refered to an email exchange in the PaB email group, in which Stim had talked about the need for more explanation about the PaB approach, and Maxine and Solobill had picked up on Stim's use of the word `controversy.'

    Anonymous: trying to find a group focussed on economics
    Pila Mulligan: sorry, bad timing with regard to Anonymous's comment :)
    Pema Pera: rather, I like to talk about how everybody already has access . . . .
    Pema Pera: sorry, Anonymous, I don't know about economics
    Pema Pera: I don't think anyone is taking offense, Pila
    Pema Pera: at least I hope not :)
    Pema Pera: I'm a little puzzled at the use of the word "controversy" though, in recent emails
    Pila Mulligan: it would not seem to be a genuine distress :)
    Pema Pera: I haven't really seen a controversy, has anyone?
    Pila Mulligan: only in the emails
    Pema Pera: Stim suggested that some things I said could be construed that way . . . then that word was taken up
    Pema Pera: Funny how things can be spontaneously generated :-)
    Stim Morane: Oh? I'm behind on email.
    Stim Morane: I'll have to see what the word has triggered. I mentioned it as a hypothetical.
    Pema Pera: Maxine and Solo picked up on your "unhelpful controversy" as if we were in the middle of one or so it seemed
    Stim Morane: Oh
    Pema Pera: it puzzled me a bit
    Stim Morane: Interesting.
    Pema Pera: Stim had written: "since you are trying to encourage people in PaB specifically by alleging that they enjoy some advantage compared with others in more traditional groups, do you think your gesture might run the risk of promoting unhelpful controversy?"
    Pema Pera: and I answered "no" with some explanation
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Stim Morane: Well, I was just trying to encourage the latter.

    It was clear to me that Stim was asking for some explanation.

    Pema Pera: yes, I understand.
    Pema Pera: Maxine wrote in response: felt a wish to make a brief comment about what Steven refers to about the 'unhelpful controversy' which can arise I believe out of doubt about the advantages of PaB
    Pema Pera: But I don't think that Stim was "doubting" the advantages of PaB, were you, Stim?
    Pila Mulligan: Stim, finding people to discuss these advanced writings and practices in Second Life is something of a miracle, based on my prior experience with SL :)
    Stim Morane: Hmm. Email is certainly a tricky medium.
    Stim Morane: This is why I concentrate on sitting down to lunch with people.

    We did not get a chance to comment right away on Pila's observation, since a new visitor arrived, and then Stim had to leave.

    Pema Pera: Hi Deanwolf, feel free to join us here
    Stim Morane: :)
    Susi Alcott: hi Dean
    DeanWolf Core: Hi everyone
    Stim Morane: As I mentioned, since I'm running ga retreat this weekend, I will have to go in a minute. Sorry.
    Stim Morane: *a retreat
    Pema Pera: You're welcome to join our group, Deanwolf. We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    Pema Pera: But Stim, to avoid doubt about doubt, can you respond to my: [19:33] Pema Pera: But I don't think that Stim was "doubting" the advantages of PaB, were you, Stim?
    DeanWolf Core: it ok for me and thank u
    Stim Morane: No, of course not.
    Pema Pera: thank you, DeanWolf!
    Pema Pera: You are right, though, Stim, email is tricky, even among people who know each other well . . . so easy to read (slightly) different contexts in the same sentences . . .
    Pema Pera: And yes, Pila, I find it also amazing that we can talk about "making the goal the path", finding ourselves already at the end of a path . . . .
    Pema Pera: It seems that in SL it is possible to talk about the beginnin and the end, but not easily about the middle stages of a path . . . .
    DeanWolf Core: beetween black and white...when its more grey i think...
    Stim Morane: Ducking out ... bye everyone!
    Pema Pera: bye Stim!
    Pila Mulligan: well, Pema you are not claiming to sell prepackaged expereince, as I understand it
    Pila Mulligan: bye Stim
    Pila Mulligan: have a blissful retreat
    Hana Hendrassen: bye Stim
    Pema Pera: oh no, on the contrary, Pila
    Susi Alcott: bye Stim
    Pema Pera: no selling, no packaging, not even experience !
    Pema Pera: rather pointing at a kind of seeing that may go beyond even experience
    Pema Pera: DeanWolf, you arrived just a few days ago in SL, are you enjoying your exploration?
    Pema Pera: And Pila, how do you see what we can do here, what the possibilities are?
    Pila Mulligan: ... Dean, you first :)

    DeanWolf's profile told me that he had been born in SL three days earlier.

    DeanWolf Core: well..i dont know to much about me...or what i suppose expecto of me
    DeanWolf Core: talking about our experience...
    DeanWolf Core: we can learn about the others and something like that
    DeanWolf Core: yes
    DeanWolf Core: yes...
    DeanWolf Core: i wanna know more ...and have a good expierence here
    DeanWolf Core: i dont know
    DeanWolf Core: may be
    Pila Mulligan: :)
    DeanWolf Core: get some kind of job
    DeanWolf Core: working in that
    DeanWolf Core: and create my things
    DeanWolf Core: oh i see
    DeanWolf Core: here in the SL
    Pema Pera: lots of options for all that in SL, DeanWolf! Our little circle is just one of the zillions of activities -- we just come here to chat.
    DeanWolf Core: i see that
    Pema Pera: but many of us have experience with building and other activities as well
    DeanWolf Core: but i lieke to be in meditation
    Hana Hendrassen: true true
    DeanWolf Core: so its good place for me to be right now here
    Pema Pera: our kind of meditation is rather unusual, only 9 seconds at a time, once every 15 minutes :)
    Pema Pera: very short, but very many of them
    Pema Pera: a shower, rather than a bath
    Pema Pera: many small holes . . . .
    DeanWolf Core: i see

    Pila then picked up the earlier question of possibilities. What is it we can do here?

    Pila Mulligan: Q: what we can do here, what are the possibilities ...
    Pila Mulligan: earlier today, here, Storm said he once managed to become more aware of the internal circulation of energy (chi, ki, etc) during a discussion of a scholarly study of runes -- that is one example of success in group discussion
    Pila Mulligan: he referred to the 9 second method as safe -- and that is an important consideration
    Pema Pera: yes, very much so
    Pila Mulligan: a sudden and unexpected awakening of internal energy can occur in meditation, but is less likey with the PaB method
    DeanWolf Core: ok
    Pema Pera: That's what I was also refering to, that the beginning and the end are relatively more safe than intermediate stages of working with specific energies and techniques, for which you probably really need a teacher
    Pema Pera: but that is not to say that awakenings cannot occur with the 9-sec method . . . they may be more spontaneous, less induced, and perhaps more natural in that way
    Pila Mulligan: for many the gradual steps may not be enough, but for many it should have some helpful results
    Pema Pera: there is more individual difference, for sure, in working with the 9-sec, than there is in specific approaches that focus on specific results
    Pema Pera: What fascinates me most, though, is the PaB focus on "no results", "no gain" . . . .
    Pema Pera: in line with "no doing", wu-wei
    Pila Mulligan: well, I remind you of my caveat on that :)
    Pila Mulligan: action to attain non-action -- in this case, perhaps, the action of the 9 second pause
    Pema Pera: sure, we have to understand what we mean with that -- like with any term
    Pema Pera: wu-wei can pervade one's whole life, any moment, any action can be done without "doing", without friction or manipulation -- would you consider that a reasonable summary, Pila?
    DeanWolf Core: right?
    DeanWolf Core: everyone knows...that we are just a little space of time here
    Hana Hendrassen: I've got to go and focus on studying right now... see you all later!
    Pila Mulligan: yes, but it is an actual immersion in what some call harmony with nature that makes the condition enduring -- otherise it is an occasional or fleeting condition, when harmony with nature occurs
    Pema Pera: thanks for stopping bye, Hana!
    Pila Mulligan: bye Hana
    Susi Alcott: see you Hana
    Hana Hendrassen: bye bye

    While Hana left, Steve joined us.

    Pila Mulligan: hi steve
    Pema Pera: yes, continuity is important, Pila
    Pema Pera: Hi Steve!
    DeanWolf Core: i dont know...but what i study...its about astronomy
    Pema Pera: And the frequency of the 9-sec, every 15 minutes, can stimulate continuity
    stevenaia Michinaga: Hi, I came for the punchline again
    Susi Alcott: hi steve
    DeanWolf Core: and the evolution of the sun
    Pema Pera: hahaha, Steve!
    DeanWolf Core: so ...i said that for this reason
    Pila Mulligan: oh that remonds me of a terrible joke
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Pila Mulligan: what reason, Dean
    Pema Pera: and what joke, Pila
    Pila Mulligan: :) I should not have ecen thought it Pema
    DeanWolf Core: that im studing phisics and astronomy...and all the evolution of the sun
    Pila Mulligan: a god joke, and it involves a bodily part
    Pila Mulligan: well, astronomy is certainly a valid topic to bring to this forum :)
    Susi Alcott: we all are adults
    DeanWolf Core: i said that we are just a little time in the universe for that reason
    Susi Alcott: : to Pila
    Pila Mulligan: yes we are almots immeasurable it seems, i time
    Pila Mulligan: in time*
    DeanWolf Core: astronomy...and all the nature its all in one
    Pema Pera: yes, DeanWolf, we are located in tiny space and time, within the universe, yet the universe for us is located in our awareness, isn't it, all of the universe . . .
    Pema Pera still waiting for the joke, patiently
    Susi Alcott: same hear
    Susi Alcott: here
    Pema Pera: all ear
    Pema Pera: here

    And so we were.

    Pila Mulligan: if I do, you may want to delete it form the chat log -- so god created adam, ..
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: and he said adam, there i ssome good nes and some bad news
    Pema Pera: ~\!/~
    Pila Mulligan: and adam said, ok god, let's start with the good news
    Pila Mulligan: god said, adam I have made you and given you a brain and a penis
    Pila Mulligan: and adam said, ok god, and the bad news?
    DeanWolf Core: we are an universe
    Pema Pera: hahaha

    (I enjoyed the timing of DeanWolf's remark)

    Pila Mulligan: god said, I have only given you enough blood to use one at a time
    DeanWolf Core: like the the same universe are
    DeanWolf Core: i think
    Susi Alcott: rofl
    Pema Pera enjoying juxtapositions of jokes :-)
    Pema Pera: well, I vote for leaving that comment in the log, don't you think? Any objections?
    Pema Pera: it's too good to drop
    Pila Mulligan: I canot be responsible for the repercussions :)
    Susi Alcott: agree
    DeanWolf Core: fine for me
    Pema Pera: well, I see that we're past the hour, I have to get going
    DeanWolf Core: ok
    stevenaia Michinaga: unfortunaltely, sometimes reality in joke form is too funny
    Pema Pera: Nice meeting you, DeanWolf, feel free to come see us again
    Susi Alcott: _/!\_
    Pila Mulligan: bye Pema -- have a nice afternoon
    DeanWolf Core: thanks to all of you
    Pema Pera: bye everyone -- see you all soon again!
    stevenaia Michinaga: glad I came before the punchline
    Pema Pera: hahaha!
    stevenaia Michinaga: night pema

    At that point I left, and dropped by at another event in Second Life, since I had just received a note:

    Please join me in the ochaya for some evening tea,
    conversation..music and dance.
    Any time is a good time to relax!
    I hope to see you soon. :)
    ~Maiko Mizuko

    I tp-ed over, and found a merry crowd, including fellow guardian Geo. We witnessed song and dance, and we even partook in collective haiku creation, in which Geo played a star role.
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