2008.12.21 07:00 - Calm and Anger and Intensity and Passion

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    Adams Rubble was the guardian and provided the comments. No newbies arrived at the pavilion this morning

    I arrived first and was soon joined by Gaya. I referred back to the Saturday 13:00 discussion with Storm about calling up Buddhas

    Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adams ^^
    Adams Rubble: You know way much more about Buddhism than I do :)
    Adams Rubble: You asked interesting questions yesterday
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... I don't really Adams
    Gaya Ethaniel: Questions? Did i?
    Adams Rubble: I just know the surface part
    Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't read enough... Adams
    Adams Rubble: Good enough to do what I need to do about the art :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Adams Rubble: but not enough to help me understand the practice
    Adams Rubble: It is so easy to make generalizations which are just wrong
    Gaya Ethaniel: I can talk about how I see things... that's about it Adams... [not particularly Buddhist I wouldn't say]
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it is
    Adams Rubble: It's easier to stay on one's home turf :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Adams Rubble: I am looking forward to your discussion with Quilty
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes for me it's similar to my preference to food... I find something I like, I stick to it until I need/want something more or different ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... hm... I kind of look forward to it too. He did respond rather quick heheheh

    From Buddhism to food. While on food, I refer back to the Saturday 07:00 session with Crusty

    Adams Rubble: Oh, yes. I am very suspicious fo new foods. hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: The foreign stuff especially you know [western food]
    Adams Rubble: haha
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: What questions did you find it interesting? Did I make any generalisastions yesterday?
    Adams Rubble: Oh my. My head is a bit of a muddle today. I am afraid I can;t but it was an overall statement
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ well it's early there after all
    Adams Rubble: I followed the discussion and understood it but when I found out I had been mistaken, my interest in the practice lessened and I went on to the other things I am thinking about
    Adams Rubble: we have a house full of people here too
    Gaya Ethaniel: mm...?
    Adams Rubble: hard to concentrate :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's winter solstice here today and I'm going to prepare a special meal after the meeting to mark the day
    Adams Rubble: In the late summer and early fall I had some experiences with God
    Gaya Ethaniel: To ward off evil spirits heheheh
    Adams Rubble: Oh that's nice Gaya
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry to interrupt
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Adams Rubble: No problem
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah remember something from your blog yes

    I begin to explain how my "practice" has been interrupted and that I am trying to rediscover some of the peace and excitement I felt then

    Adams Rubble: Those experiences have become a bit distant as my former self emerged
    Adams Rubble: I am trying to make some sense of it in some ways and in others, experience it again
    Adams Rubble: So Crusty's comment peaked my interest
    Crusty Goldshark is Online
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... as a tool to have the experiences again?
    Adams Rubble: When we are in some state of confusion, we may be easily spooked from any ideas that don't immediately clarify things

    Crusty joins us

    Gaya Ethaniel: Speak of the devil ^^
    Adams Rubble: which may add to the state of confusion. hehe
    Adams Rubble: Hi Crusty :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Crusty ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi devilees
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Gaya Ethaniel: We were talking about you behind your back Crusty
    Adams Rubble: We were discussing your statement about calling up bodhisattva deities Crusty
    Crusty Goldshark: get behind me satanists
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

    I bring Crusty up to date with my reactions to his statement Saturday

    Adams Rubble: I got very excited yesterday because it seemed to parallel experiences I had in late summer and early fall
    Crusty Goldshark: wo ya fancy evoking a Buddha?
    Crusty Goldshark: yes Adams?
    Adams Rubble: Well. Pema sugested that I ask God to come through my door
    Adams Rubble: and I did
    Crusty Goldshark: kool - she will
    Crusty Goldshark: did she
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: ?
    Adams Rubble: and I experienced the physical senstation of being rocked as if in a cradle
    Adams Rubble: it only lasted a few seconds but it felt very real
    Crusty Goldshark: very comforting
    Adams Rubble: yes it was
    Adams Rubble: but that is in the distance now for me
    Adams Rubble: It seemed to me yesterday that maybe you were describing something that may be related
    Crusty Goldshark: where are you now in your relationship to God or Cod as we fish lovers say
    Adams Rubble: :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

    I recount how I got into this state

    Adams Rubble: I am distant but I have had what seems to be a former self take over me
    Adams Rubble: and doesn't understand any of this
    Crusty Goldshark: can you say more
    Adams Rubble: I was working on a two big projects
    Adams Rubble: In order to implement them, I had to call upon pre-PaB memory, that is memory from a year ago
    Adams Rubble: I noticed it at first because I had bouts of anger which I could not shake by things I had learned in PaB
    Adams Rubble: I kept it under control until near the end of the really big project
    Adams Rubble: when there some impediments in the way
    Adams Rubble: my former self emerged in full force and bulled its way through them
    Adams Rubble: In a way it was like negative energy
    Adams Rubble: and left me totally exhausted when I finished
    Adams Rubble: and now trying to find where I left off earlier in the fall

    Negative Emotional States

    Crusty Goldshark: Ah . . .
    Crusty Goldshark: well I am in the throes of all my negativity . . . but not yours . . . so I can offer suggestions :)
    Adams Rubble: yes?
    Crusty Goldshark: The first thing is that negative emotional states are trying to help you . .
    Crusty Goldshark: even though they may not be helpful in a way that you prefer
    Crusty Goldshark: so you have to talk to them and get them on side
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble: Well it did complete the project :)
    Crusty Goldshark: See - it was helping but in a way that was difficult
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Crusty Goldshark: Do you like anger?
    Adams Rubble: Keeping me moving when otherwise I would have done nothing
    Adams Rubble: No I am not comfortable with anger. It is distructive
    Gaya Ethaniel: It's powerful 'energy' for me too

    Crusty asks an interesting question

    Crusty Goldshark: Sounds constructive to me . . . can it be split into constructive and destructive anger?
    Adams Rubble: that is an interesting thought
    Crusty Goldshark: I am an angry person - it is a form of passion and fear . . .
    Gaya Ethaniel: They are related yes
    Gaya Ethaniel: [for me too]
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Crusty Goldshark: Let us get angry over something (we should be angry about) and then just change it slightly to passionate Love or acceptance - any suggestions?
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    I want to talk about control of anger first

    Adams Rubble: One thing first if I may...
    Crusty Goldshark: OK
    Adams Rubble: Over the summer I learned to control my anger
    Adams Rubble: and really started to appreciate all the woderful things in my life with which I have been blessed
    Adams Rubble: But one funny thing happened
    Adams Rubble: When I was not angry about some things which used to make me very angry...
    Adams Rubble: I found it made other people confused and they doubled their anger at the cause in response and seemed annoyed with me
    Gaya Ethaniel: New to them perhaps ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: Being calm in a controlled way cn do that
    Crusty Goldshark: can
    Gaya Ethaniel: That too yes Crusty

    We kick around "calm" and "anger" and "intense and passionate"

    Crusty Goldshark: Let me put it like this can you be calm in an intense and passionate way?
    Adams Rubble: I may be mixing anger with complaining in my personal life
    Gaya Ethaniel: [Sometimes matching the other helps in emotions... not always though]
    Adams Rubble: I used to complain alot and learned to be grateful about things
    Adams Rubble: Of course, that also came back with the emergence of this other self
    Adams Rubble: Hmm Crusty. I don't know. Maybe I am
    Crusty Goldshark: If we concentrate almost angrily about something positive, we may be finding a positive outlet for our intensity
    Gaya Ethaniel: Guess things will be even out soon perhaps Adams?
    Adams Rubble: well, in a way that is almost like meditating while we are working
    Adams Rubble: diving in and experiencing it in an intense way
    Adams Rubble: maybe not

    We get a litle break to think about what we have been saying

    Crusty Goldshark: doorbell - brb
    Gaya Ethaniel: sure
    Adams Rubble: maybe when we are in that state it is something else. hmmmmm
    Adams Rubble: (whew can use a little break)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Gaya Ethaniel: Our bodies go on working whatever we go... so perhaps we can continue 'meditate' while doing other things too
    Gaya Ethaniel: whatever we do*
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Adams Rubble: also intensity helps us feel alive

    Stevenaia teleports in and settles into a cushion and soon we are off again for a short spurt

    Adams Rubble: Hi Steve
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hey stevenaia ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: back - I find that anger is something I can not control - or choose not to - most people learn to control it - oh boy phone
    Gaya Ethaniel: wb ^^
    Adams Rubble: np Crusty
    Adams Rubble: Steve we are having an intense discussion and intensity and anger
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: back - I was wondering about a way of unleashing a positive surge of anger . .
    Crusty Goldshark: how?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know... I'm on a different track from that so
    stevenaia Michinaga accepted your inventory offer.
    stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
    Adams Rubble: That will explain it Steve :)
    Crusty Goldshark: Most anger resides in physical sensations - so you can get angry about nothing very much and explore its nature . . .
    Adams Rubble: yes it is easy to get angry
    Crusty Goldshark: but is it also easy to change that into something positive - motivation, effort etc?
    Adams Rubble: One can do it at a cost
    Adams Rubble: One of the results is physical. We may get an upset stomach or in extreme cases gove purself a heart attack
    Adams Rubble: give
    Gaya Ethaniel: To change, one may have such physcial symptoms?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Or you mean to ride out the anger?
    Crusty Goldshark: Perhaps there are more gentle forms of anger - perhaps even the emotion of anger is not the only force or form it can manifest in . . .
    Adams Rubble: I meant harnasing the anger Gaya

    There are other ways to create energy including the nine-seconds

    Adams Rubble: Or can we create energy another way?
    Adams Rubble: For a while I was finding energy in stopping every 15 minutes for the 9 seconds
    Adams Rubble: I think it may be that it set a rhythm
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok Adams
    Crusty Goldshark: The point I would make is that Love and Anger and passion are very similar in potential and can be interchanged to a degree once one starts to examine them
    Adams Rubble: but it also kept me focused. It may have been just enough time to catch the wandering thoughts and focus back on the job
    Adams Rubble: Yes, Crusty, what about love
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Crusty, I prefer to see what makdes anger to appear... first
    Gaya Ethaniel: makes*
    Crusty Goldshark: Ok well what makes us angry? For me it might be ignorance . .
    Adams Rubble: There is energy in love relationships, especially when they are beginning
    Adams Rubble: what about compassion?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes wrong perception... or sometimes inpaitience for me
    Crusty Goldshark: Yes and does that person also enfuriate us in a way we like?
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Adams Rubble: I can get angry by what the outgoing administration is doing to the environment in their last two months
    Adams Rubble: in my country

    Magdalena completes our lttle group

    Adams Rubble: there is no real energy in that for me though
    Adams Rubble: Hello Magdalena
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hi Magdalena
    Magdalena Colclough: Just Maggie
    Magdalena Colclough: hi
    Crusty Goldshark: Understood - I would spend time getting angry about such things (during your 9 seconds) and then feeling some compassion or understanding for these situations
    Crusty Goldshark: Hi Maggie
    stevenaia Michinaga: hello Maggie
    Adams Rubble: Have you been to one of ou sessions before Magdaelna?
    Magdalena Colclough: I have. Thanks :)
    Adams Rubble: Great! Very nice to meet you and welcome :)
    Magdalena Colclough: thank you
    Adams Rubble: we are talking about anger this morning
    Adams Rubble: and whther we can either find some positive energy or exchange it for another emotion. Is that a reasonable summary?
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Crusty Goldshark: YesI have to go but will leave you with a visualization - imagine the anger of a situation building up into a fist going out to the situation and then opening up and offering a rose - with compassionate intensity . . .
    Adams Rubble: In my 9-second experience, the main thing was the intensity of the focus on the task
    Gaya Ethaniel: And sometimes not accepting 'stuff happens', not wanting to have unpleasantness
    Adams Rubble: wow Crusty...wouldn't that be nice :)
    Crusty Goldshark: OK bye guys - fists into roses . . .
    Adams Rubble: bye Crusty :)
    Magdalena Colclough: bye Crusty
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Crusty

    Crusty leaves us

    Magdalena Colclough: namaste
    Gaya Ethaniel: Many reasons for me Adams...
    Adams Rubble: you mean getting angry Gaya?
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Adams Rubble: Yes. For many of us there may be some particular irksome recurring causes
    Adams Rubble: I have my now famous dog who now barks "compassion"
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Gaya Ethaniel is familiar of the dog
    Adams Rubble: still barking away Gaya :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Adams Rubble: amazing stamina
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes...
    Gaya Ethaniel: What do you do when irritations rise because of the dog if they do?

    I missed Gaya's question. Sorry Gaya. It is funny, I now seem to be immune to irritation from that dog although I avoid it. I hear it barking "com-pash-un-at" or "com-pasun". Other dogs may irritate me though and then I just try to focus away from the barking. I ask Magdaelna about her experience with the nine seconds

    Adams Rubble: Magdalena, have you tried the nine-second experiment?
    Magdalena Colclough: I have, though it's been a while
    Adams Rubble: It is not always easy to rememebr to do it
    Magdalena Colclough: My primary experience during it was one of coming back into my body, instead of in my mind or screen or keyboard
    Adams Rubble: yes, that is a good start :)
    Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
    Adams Rubble: Focusing away from what we are doing

    Gaya has to leave for her culinary preparations

    Gaya Ethaniel: mm... time to go ward off evil spirits
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy the rest of your weekend all ^^
    Adams Rubble: OK, Gaya, enjoy your meal :)
    Adams Rubble: and the weekend :)
    Magdalena Colclough: bye Gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have to make it first heheheh ty ^^
    Adams Rubble: Gaya is making a solstice meal
    Adams Rubble: Steve, do you have any thoughts about our direction this morning?

    I notice from Magdalena's profile that she is a librarian and we spend the rest of the time talking shop

    Adams Rubble: I am a librarian of sorts Magdalena
    Magdalena Colclough: oh?
    Adams Rubble: I work with images
    Adams Rubble: art images
    Magdalena Colclough: what do you do?
    Adams Rubble: I am a Visual Resources Manager or Librarian
    Magdalena Colclough: ahhh
    Magdalena Colclough: are you in academia?
    Adams Rubble: I look at pretty pictures all day
    Adams Rubble: yes
    Magdalena Colclough smiles
    Magdalena Colclough: very stimulating
    Adams Rubble: Not much use for me outside :)
    Magdalena Colclough: ah, well, there's always corporate
    Adams Rubble: yes, there are a very few people doing this for the corporate. They like people with more money interests though
    Magdalena Colclough: or working for a vendor
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Adams Rubble: yes, and they are getting fewer and fewer with the demise of slides :)
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Adams Rubble: There used to be more than 150 and it may be down to 5
    Adams Rubble: or so
    Magdalena Colclough: vendors?
    Adams Rubble: yes, for art images
    Magdalena Colclough: ArtStor has taken over, I guess?
    Adams Rubble: ARTstor has made them irrelevant
    Magdalena Colclough: I'm very dissatisfied with the content of ArtStor right now
    Magdalena Colclough: almost impossible to find projectors these days too, I hear
    Magdalena Colclough: but at least there are slide scanners
    Adams Rubble: I just finished a project migrating 114,296 images to ARTstor
    Magdalena Colclough: wow
    Adams Rubble: At pur university, it all went so quickly I have piles of projectors and trays
    Adams Rubble: do you work in an art field?
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Magdalena Colclough: I'm in reference and instruction
    <I remove references here to our institutions>
    Adams Rubble: I'll cut those out of the log :)
    stevenaia Michinaga: :)
    Magdalena Colclough: thanks, but this is my professional alt
    Adams Rubble: Mine isn't :)
    Magdalena Colclough grins
    Magdalena Colclough: ok
    Magdalena Colclough: I spoke with one of your librarians a month or so ago
    Magdalena Colclough: I don't remember whom
    Magdalena Colclough: I was looking at colleges that use Meebo for reference interactions
    Adams Rubble: We have some good people there. I don't work in the library although I worked closely with them with Luna Insight
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Adams Rubble: I am in the Art History department
    Magdalena Colclough: ahh
    Adams Rubble: The department model doesn't work as well with digital images as it did with slides
    Adams Rubble: most places are moving their collections into the library
    Magdalena Colclough: we have a small digicenter that just began at *** and I think they're using Luna
    Adams Rubble: We just finally got ARTstor
    Adams Rubble: It is stronger on painting than it is on architecture
    Magdalena Colclough: And not very strong on contemporary art
    Adams Rubble: No, for copyright reasons
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Magdalena Colclough: but even for early 20th C stuff
    Adams Rubble: As the Qualls collection gets enetered, that will get stronger
    Adams Rubble: not for early though
    Magdalena Colclough: I'm not familiar with that collection
    Magdalena Colclough: I've actually been looking for an image of a Paul Klee painting
    Magdalena Colclough: and I can't find it anywhere
    Adams Rubble: Fortunately for us, we have a srtgong 20c component in ourdepartment collection
    Adams Rubble: ah
    Adams Rubble: Yes, there are going to be gaps for a while
    Magdalena Colclough: there doesn't seem to be a "complete works" publication for him
    Magdalena Colclough: but, I mean, I can't find it ANYWHERE
    Adams Rubble: But still pretty amazing for how quickly it has happened
    Magdalena Colclough nods
    Adams Rubble wondering which painting
    Magdalena Colclough: the English translation I remember was "the way out is found"
    Magdalena Colclough: a family of stick figures working their way through a chaos of lines
    Adams Rubble will look it up in our database when we finish (would crash computer now)
    Magdalena Colclough: oh! thank you!
    Caledonia Heron is Offline
    Magdalena Colclough: it may be owned by the Norton Simon, but I don't know
    Adams Rubble: The is a Visual Resources Association that has a listserve
    Magdalena Colclough: may be part of the Galka Scheyer (sp?) collection
    Adams Rubble: It is a good place to ask about particular works
    Magdalena Colclough: ah, thanks!
    Adams Rubble: There always seems to be someone who knows where something can be found
    Magdalena Colclough: do you subscribe to the listserv?
    Adams Rubble: Yes, but I am embarassed that I have it turned off. Would not have finished the project otherwise
    Magdalena Colclough laughs
    Magdalena Colclough: don't be embarrassed
    Magdalena Colclough: it's a survival technique, these days
    Adams Rubble: There is an Art Librarians of North America group too (ARLIS)
    Adams Rubble: I have theirs turned of too
    Magdalena Colclough laughs
    Adams Rubble: and one for the College Art Association
    Adams Rubble: (that one too)
    Magdalena Colclough: good for you!
    Magdalena Colclough: listservs are almost as bad as blogs
    Magdalena Colclough: and I have a strick no-blog policy
    Adams Rubble has a blog too :)
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Magdalena Colclough: well, just so you know, I won't read it :)
    Adams Rubble: but that one is for here
    Adams Rubble not offended
    Adams Rubble: hehe
    Magdalena Colclough: well, it was a pleasure to meet you, Adams
    Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must go back to RL
    Magdalena Colclough: thank you for your suggestions
    Adams Rubble: yes, a pleasure to meet you too
    stevenaia Michinaga: bye adams
    Adams Rubble: I will let you know about the Klee
    Magdalena Colclough: ah, thank you
    Magdalena Colclough: no rush at all
    Magdalena Colclough: I've been searching off and on for years
    Adams Rubble: bye Magdalena and Steve
    Magdalena Colclough: bye Adams
    stevenaia Michinaga: always a pleasure
    Adams Rubble: yes Steve
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