2008.12.21 07:00 - Calm and Anger and Intensity and Passion

Adams Rubble was the guardian and provided the comments. No newbies arrived at the pavilion this morning

I arrived first and was soon joined by Gaya. I referred back to the Saturday 13:00 discussion with Storm about calling up Buddhas

Adams Rubble: Hello Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Adams ^^
Adams Rubble: You know way much more about Buddhism than I do :)
Adams Rubble: You asked interesting questions yesterday
Gaya Ethaniel: mm... I don't really Adams
Gaya Ethaniel: Questions? Did i?
Adams Rubble: I just know the surface part
Gaya Ethaniel: I haven't read enough... Adams
Adams Rubble: Good enough to do what I need to do about the art :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Adams Rubble: but not enough to help me understand the practice
Adams Rubble: It is so easy to make generalizations which are just wrong
Gaya Ethaniel: I can talk about how I see things... that's about it Adams... [not particularly Buddhist I wouldn't say]
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes it is
Adams Rubble: It's easier to stay on one's home turf :)
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Adams Rubble: I am looking forward to your discussion with Quilty
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes for me it's similar to my preference to food... I find something I like, I stick to it until I need/want something more or different ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... hm... I kind of look forward to it too. He did respond rather quick heheheh

From Buddhism to food. While on food, I refer back to the Saturday 07:00 session with Crusty

Adams Rubble: Oh, yes. I am very suspicious fo new foods. hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: The foreign stuff especially you know [western food]
Adams Rubble: haha
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: What questions did you find it interesting? Did I make any generalisastions yesterday?
Adams Rubble: Oh my. My head is a bit of a muddle today. I am afraid I can;t but it was an overall statement
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^ well it's early there after all
Adams Rubble: I followed the discussion and understood it but when I found out I had been mistaken, my interest in the practice lessened and I went on to the other things I am thinking about
Adams Rubble: we have a house full of people here too
Gaya Ethaniel: mm...?
Adams Rubble: hard to concentrate :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ah
Gaya Ethaniel: It's winter solstice here today and I'm going to prepare a special meal after the meeting to mark the day
Adams Rubble: In the late summer and early fall I had some experiences with God
Gaya Ethaniel: To ward off evil spirits heheheh
Adams Rubble: Oh that's nice Gaya
Adams Rubble: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel: Sorry to interrupt
Adams Rubble: :)
Adams Rubble: No problem
Gaya Ethaniel: ah remember something from your blog yes

I begin to explain how my "practice" has been interrupted and that I am trying to rediscover some of the peace and excitement I felt then

Adams Rubble: Those experiences have become a bit distant as my former self emerged
Adams Rubble: I am trying to make some sense of it in some ways and in others, experience it again
Adams Rubble: So Crusty's comment peaked my interest
Crusty Goldshark is Online
Gaya Ethaniel: ah... as a tool to have the experiences again?
Adams Rubble: When we are in some state of confusion, we may be easily spooked from any ideas that don't immediately clarify things

Crusty joins us

Gaya Ethaniel: Speak of the devil ^^
Adams Rubble: which may add to the state of confusion. hehe
Adams Rubble: Hi Crusty :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey Crusty ^^
Crusty Goldshark: Hi devilees
Gaya Ethaniel smiles
Gaya Ethaniel: We were talking about you behind your back Crusty
Adams Rubble: We were discussing your statement about calling up bodhisattva deities Crusty
Crusty Goldshark: get behind me satanists
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

I bring Crusty up to date with my reactions to his statement Saturday

Adams Rubble: I got very excited yesterday because it seemed to parallel experiences I had in late summer and early fall
Crusty Goldshark: wo ya fancy evoking a Buddha?
Crusty Goldshark: yes Adams?
Adams Rubble: Well. Pema sugested that I ask God to come through my door
Adams Rubble: and I did
Crusty Goldshark: kool - she will
Crusty Goldshark: did she
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Crusty Goldshark: ?
Adams Rubble: and I experienced the physical senstation of being rocked as if in a cradle
Adams Rubble: it only lasted a few seconds but it felt very real
Crusty Goldshark: very comforting
Adams Rubble: yes it was
Adams Rubble: but that is in the distance now for me
Adams Rubble: It seemed to me yesterday that maybe you were describing something that may be related
Crusty Goldshark: where are you now in your relationship to God or Cod as we fish lovers say
Adams Rubble: :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^

I recount how I got into this state

Adams Rubble: I am distant but I have had what seems to be a former self take over me
Adams Rubble: and doesn't understand any of this
Crusty Goldshark: can you say more
Adams Rubble: I was working on a two big projects
Adams Rubble: In order to implement them, I had to call upon pre-PaB memory, that is memory from a year ago
Adams Rubble: I noticed it at first because I had bouts of anger which I could not shake by things I had learned in PaB
Adams Rubble: I kept it under control until near the end of the really big project
Adams Rubble: when there some impediments in the way
Adams Rubble: my former self emerged in full force and bulled its way through them
Adams Rubble: In a way it was like negative energy
Adams Rubble: and left me totally exhausted when I finished
Adams Rubble: and now trying to find where I left off earlier in the fall

Negative Emotional States

Crusty Goldshark: Ah . . .
Crusty Goldshark: well I am in the throes of all my negativity . . . but not yours . . . so I can offer suggestions :)
Adams Rubble: yes?
Crusty Goldshark: The first thing is that negative emotional states are trying to help you . .
Crusty Goldshark: even though they may not be helpful in a way that you prefer
Crusty Goldshark: so you have to talk to them and get them on side
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: Well it did complete the project :)
Crusty Goldshark: See - it was helping but in a way that was difficult
Adams Rubble: yes
Crusty Goldshark: Do you like anger?
Adams Rubble: Keeping me moving when otherwise I would have done nothing
Adams Rubble: No I am not comfortable with anger. It is distructive
Gaya Ethaniel: It's powerful 'energy' for me too

Crusty asks an interesting question

Crusty Goldshark: Sounds constructive to me . . . can it be split into constructive and destructive anger?
Adams Rubble: that is an interesting thought
Crusty Goldshark: I am an angry person - it is a form of passion and fear . . .
Gaya Ethaniel: They are related yes
Gaya Ethaniel: [for me too]
Adams Rubble: yes
Crusty Goldshark: Let us get angry over something (we should be angry about) and then just change it slightly to passionate Love or acceptance - any suggestions?
Gaya Ethaniel smiles

I want to talk about control of anger first

Adams Rubble: One thing first if I may...
Crusty Goldshark: OK
Adams Rubble: Over the summer I learned to control my anger
Adams Rubble: and really started to appreciate all the woderful things in my life with which I have been blessed
Adams Rubble: But one funny thing happened
Adams Rubble: When I was not angry about some things which used to make me very angry...
Adams Rubble: I found it made other people confused and they doubled their anger at the cause in response and seemed annoyed with me
Gaya Ethaniel: New to them perhaps ^^
Crusty Goldshark: Being calm in a controlled way cn do that
Crusty Goldshark: can
Gaya Ethaniel: That too yes Crusty

We kick around "calm" and "anger" and "intense and passionate"

Crusty Goldshark: Let me put it like this can you be calm in an intense and passionate way?
Adams Rubble: I may be mixing anger with complaining in my personal life
Gaya Ethaniel: [Sometimes matching the other helps in emotions... not always though]
Adams Rubble: I used to complain alot and learned to be grateful about things
Adams Rubble: Of course, that also came back with the emergence of this other self
Adams Rubble: Hmm Crusty. I don't know. Maybe I am
Crusty Goldshark: If we concentrate almost angrily about something positive, we may be finding a positive outlet for our intensity
Gaya Ethaniel: Guess things will be even out soon perhaps Adams?
Adams Rubble: well, in a way that is almost like meditating while we are working
Adams Rubble: diving in and experiencing it in an intense way
Adams Rubble: maybe not

We get a litle break to think about what we have been saying

Crusty Goldshark: doorbell - brb
Gaya Ethaniel: sure
Adams Rubble: maybe when we are in that state it is something else. hmmmmm
Adams Rubble: (whew can use a little break)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Gaya Ethaniel: Our bodies go on working whatever we go... so perhaps we can continue 'meditate' while doing other things too
Gaya Ethaniel: whatever we do*
Adams Rubble: yes
Adams Rubble: also intensity helps us feel alive

Stevenaia teleports in and settles into a cushion and soon we are off again for a short spurt

Adams Rubble: Hi Steve
Gaya Ethaniel: Hey stevenaia ^^
Crusty Goldshark: back - I find that anger is something I can not control - or choose not to - most people learn to control it - oh boy phone
Gaya Ethaniel: wb ^^
Adams Rubble: np Crusty
Adams Rubble: Steve we are having an intense discussion and intensity and anger
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Crusty Goldshark: back - I was wondering about a way of unleashing a positive surge of anger . .
Crusty Goldshark: how?
Gaya Ethaniel: I don't know... I'm on a different track from that so
stevenaia Michinaga accepted your inventory offer.
stevenaia Michinaga: thank you
Adams Rubble: That will explain it Steve :)
Crusty Goldshark: Most anger resides in physical sensations - so you can get angry about nothing very much and explore its nature . . .
Adams Rubble: yes it is easy to get angry
Crusty Goldshark: but is it also easy to change that into something positive - motivation, effort etc?
Adams Rubble: One can do it at a cost
Adams Rubble: One of the results is physical. We may get an upset stomach or in extreme cases gove purself a heart attack
Adams Rubble: give
Gaya Ethaniel: To change, one may have such physcial symptoms?
Gaya Ethaniel: Or you mean to ride out the anger?
Crusty Goldshark: Perhaps there are more gentle forms of anger - perhaps even the emotion of anger is not the only force or form it can manifest in . . .
Adams Rubble: I meant harnasing the anger Gaya

There are other ways to create energy including the nine-seconds

Adams Rubble: Or can we create energy another way?
Adams Rubble: For a while I was finding energy in stopping every 15 minutes for the 9 seconds
Adams Rubble: I think it may be that it set a rhythm
Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok Adams
Crusty Goldshark: The point I would make is that Love and Anger and passion are very similar in potential and can be interchanged to a degree once one starts to examine them
Adams Rubble: but it also kept me focused. It may have been just enough time to catch the wandering thoughts and focus back on the job
Adams Rubble: Yes, Crusty, what about love
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes Crusty, I prefer to see what makdes anger to appear... first
Gaya Ethaniel: makes*
Crusty Goldshark: Ok well what makes us angry? For me it might be ignorance . .
Adams Rubble: There is energy in love relationships, especially when they are beginning
Adams Rubble: what about compassion?
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes wrong perception... or sometimes inpaitience for me
Crusty Goldshark: Yes and does that person also enfuriate us in a way we like?
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Adams Rubble: I can get angry by what the outgoing administration is doing to the environment in their last two months
Adams Rubble: in my country

Magdalena completes our lttle group

Adams Rubble: there is no real energy in that for me though
Adams Rubble: Hello Magdalena
Gaya Ethaniel: Hi Magdalena
Magdalena Colclough: Just Maggie
Magdalena Colclough: hi
Crusty Goldshark: Understood - I would spend time getting angry about such things (during your 9 seconds) and then feeling some compassion or understanding for these situations
Crusty Goldshark: Hi Maggie
stevenaia Michinaga: hello Maggie
Adams Rubble: Have you been to one of ou sessions before Magdaelna?
Magdalena Colclough: I have. Thanks :)
Adams Rubble: Great! Very nice to meet you and welcome :)
Magdalena Colclough: thank you
Adams Rubble: we are talking about anger this morning
Adams Rubble: and whther we can either find some positive energy or exchange it for another emotion. Is that a reasonable summary?
Magdalena Colclough nods
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Crusty Goldshark: YesI have to go but will leave you with a visualization - imagine the anger of a situation building up into a fist going out to the situation and then opening up and offering a rose - with compassionate intensity . . .
Adams Rubble: In my 9-second experience, the main thing was the intensity of the focus on the task
Gaya Ethaniel: And sometimes not accepting 'stuff happens', not wanting to have unpleasantness
Adams Rubble: wow Crusty...wouldn't that be nice :)
Crusty Goldshark: OK bye guys - fists into roses . . .
Adams Rubble: bye Crusty :)
Magdalena Colclough: bye Crusty
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your day Crusty

Crusty leaves us

Magdalena Colclough: namaste
Gaya Ethaniel: Many reasons for me Adams...
Adams Rubble: you mean getting angry Gaya?
Gaya Ethaniel nods
Adams Rubble: Yes. For many of us there may be some particular irksome recurring causes
Adams Rubble: I have my now famous dog who now barks "compassion"
Adams Rubble: hehe
Gaya Ethaniel is familiar of the dog
Adams Rubble: still barking away Gaya :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Adams Rubble: amazing stamina
Gaya Ethaniel: Yes...
Gaya Ethaniel: What do you do when irritations rise because of the dog if they do?

I missed Gaya's question. Sorry Gaya. It is funny, I now seem to be immune to irritation from that dog although I avoid it. I hear it barking "com-pash-un-at" or "com-pasun". Other dogs may irritate me though and then I just try to focus away from the barking. I ask Magdaelna about her experience with the nine seconds

Adams Rubble: Magdalena, have you tried the nine-second experiment?
Magdalena Colclough: I have, though it's been a while
Adams Rubble: It is not always easy to rememebr to do it
Magdalena Colclough: My primary experience during it was one of coming back into my body, instead of in my mind or screen or keyboard
Adams Rubble: yes, that is a good start :)
Gaya Ethaniel: ^^
Adams Rubble: Focusing away from what we are doing

Gaya has to leave for her culinary preparations

Gaya Ethaniel: mm... time to go ward off evil spirits
Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy the rest of your weekend all ^^
Adams Rubble: OK, Gaya, enjoy your meal :)
Adams Rubble: and the weekend :)
Magdalena Colclough: bye Gaya
Gaya Ethaniel: Have to make it first heheheh ty ^^
Adams Rubble: Gaya is making a solstice meal
Adams Rubble: Steve, do you have any thoughts about our direction this morning?

I notice from Magdalena's profile that she is a librarian and we spend the rest of the time talking shop

Adams Rubble: I am a librarian of sorts Magdalena
Magdalena Colclough: oh?
Adams Rubble: I work with images
Adams Rubble: art images
Magdalena Colclough: what do you do?
Adams Rubble: I am a Visual Resources Manager or Librarian
Magdalena Colclough: ahhh
Magdalena Colclough: are you in academia?
Adams Rubble: I look at pretty pictures all day
Adams Rubble: yes
Magdalena Colclough smiles
Magdalena Colclough: very stimulating
Adams Rubble: Not much use for me outside :)
Magdalena Colclough: ah, well, there's always corporate
Adams Rubble: yes, there are a very few people doing this for the corporate. They like people with more money interests though
Magdalena Colclough: or working for a vendor
Magdalena Colclough nods
Adams Rubble: yes, and they are getting fewer and fewer with the demise of slides :)
Magdalena Colclough nods
Adams Rubble: There used to be more than 150 and it may be down to 5
Adams Rubble: or so
Magdalena Colclough: vendors?
Adams Rubble: yes, for art images
Magdalena Colclough: ArtStor has taken over, I guess?
Adams Rubble: ARTstor has made them irrelevant
Magdalena Colclough: I'm very dissatisfied with the content of ArtStor right now
Magdalena Colclough: almost impossible to find projectors these days too, I hear
Magdalena Colclough: but at least there are slide scanners
Adams Rubble: I just finished a project migrating 114,296 images to ARTstor
Magdalena Colclough: wow
Adams Rubble: At pur university, it all went so quickly I have piles of projectors and trays
Adams Rubble: do you work in an art field?
Magdalena Colclough nods
Magdalena Colclough: I'm in reference and instruction

Adams Rubble: I'll cut those out of the log :)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Magdalena Colclough: thanks, but this is my professional alt
Adams Rubble: Mine isn't :)
Magdalena Colclough grins
Magdalena Colclough: ok
Magdalena Colclough: I spoke with one of your librarians a month or so ago
Magdalena Colclough: I don't remember whom
Magdalena Colclough: I was looking at colleges that use Meebo for reference interactions
Adams Rubble: We have some good people there. I don't work in the library although I worked closely with them with Luna Insight
Magdalena Colclough nods
Adams Rubble: I am in the Art History department
Magdalena Colclough: ahh
Adams Rubble: The department model doesn't work as well with digital images as it did with slides
Adams Rubble: most places are moving their collections into the library
Magdalena Colclough: we have a small digicenter that just began at *** and I think they're using Luna
Adams Rubble: We just finally got ARTstor
Adams Rubble: It is stronger on painting than it is on architecture
Magdalena Colclough: And not very strong on contemporary art
Adams Rubble: No, for copyright reasons
Magdalena Colclough nods
Magdalena Colclough: but even for early 20th C stuff
Adams Rubble: As the Qualls collection gets enetered, that will get stronger
Adams Rubble: not for early though
Magdalena Colclough: I'm not familiar with that collection
Magdalena Colclough: I've actually been looking for an image of a Paul Klee painting
Magdalena Colclough: and I can't find it anywhere
Adams Rubble: Fortunately for us, we have a srtgong 20c component in ourdepartment collection
Adams Rubble: ah
Adams Rubble: Yes, there are going to be gaps for a while
Magdalena Colclough: there doesn't seem to be a "complete works" publication for him
Magdalena Colclough: but, I mean, I can't find it ANYWHERE
Adams Rubble: But still pretty amazing for how quickly it has happened
Magdalena Colclough nods
Adams Rubble wondering which painting
Magdalena Colclough: the English translation I remember was "the way out is found"
Magdalena Colclough: a family of stick figures working their way through a chaos of lines
Adams Rubble will look it up in our database when we finish (would crash computer now)
Magdalena Colclough: oh! thank you!
Caledonia Heron is Offline
Magdalena Colclough: it may be owned by the Norton Simon, but I don't know
Adams Rubble: The is a Visual Resources Association that has a listserve
Magdalena Colclough: may be part of the Galka Scheyer (sp?) collection
Adams Rubble: It is a good place to ask about particular works
Magdalena Colclough: ah, thanks!
Adams Rubble: There always seems to be someone who knows where something can be found
Magdalena Colclough: do you subscribe to the listserv?
Adams Rubble: Yes, but I am embarassed that I have it turned off. Would not have finished the project otherwise
Magdalena Colclough laughs
Magdalena Colclough: don't be embarrassed
Magdalena Colclough: it's a survival technique, these days
Adams Rubble: There is an Art Librarians of North America group too (ARLIS)
Adams Rubble: I have theirs turned of too
Magdalena Colclough laughs
Adams Rubble: and one for the College Art Association
Adams Rubble: (that one too)
Magdalena Colclough: good for you!
Magdalena Colclough: listservs are almost as bad as blogs
Magdalena Colclough: and I have a strick no-blog policy
Adams Rubble has a blog too :)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Magdalena Colclough: well, just so you know, I won't read it :)
Adams Rubble: but that one is for here
Adams Rubble not offended
Adams Rubble: hehe
Magdalena Colclough: well, it was a pleasure to meet you, Adams
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must go back to RL
Magdalena Colclough: thank you for your suggestions
Adams Rubble: yes, a pleasure to meet you too
stevenaia Michinaga: bye adams
Adams Rubble: I will let you know about the Klee
Magdalena Colclough: ah, thank you
Magdalena Colclough: no rush at all
Magdalena Colclough: I've been searching off and on for years
Adams Rubble: bye Magdalena and Steve
Magdalena Colclough: bye Adams
stevenaia Michinaga: always a pleasure
Adams Rubble: yes Steve