2011.01.27 01:00 - Selfishness and Gratefulness

The Guardian for this meeting was Zen Arado. The comments are by Zen Arado. Present were Calvino Rabeni, Nio Artful, oo0oo Resident and myself

Australia recollections:

oO0Oo Resident: Hi Zen
Zen Arado: Hi Sam
Zen Arado: I'm still eating my breakfast
Zen Arado: a man called me on Skype
Zen Arado: and I didn't have time to eat it
oO0Oo Resident: np
oO0Oo Resident: I have no pressing needs of any kind
Zen Arado: a guy who lives in Melbourne
Zen Arado: I shared a flat with him and another guy in Sydney in 1961
oO0Oo Resident: your gestures Zen
oO0Oo Resident: like you were forming a ball in front of you
Zen Arado: yeah it's a new AO
oO0Oo Resident: Melbourne Sydney... beaut cities mate
Zen Arado: you should see the gestures my alt does :)
oO0Oo Resident: hehe
oO0Oo Resident rolls eyes
Zen Arado: yes - wonder why I came back to this cold place sometimes
oO0Oo Resident: Sydney in 1961 would have been gorgeous I imagine
Zen Arado: think it is better now
oO0Oo Resident: perhaps more multicultural now
Zen Arado: but you need a lot of money to get a nice place
oO0Oo Resident: mmm
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: though there were lots of immigrants then too
Zen Arado: you ever been there?
oO0Oo Resident: yes I have
oO0Oo Resident: lovely continent
Zen Arado: tell me where you went to
oO0Oo Resident: the birds and plants stand out for me
oO0Oo Resident: well, I went right around
oO0Oo Resident: not every place, but got around a fair bit
oO0Oo Resident: Was in Melbourne briefly
oO0Oo Resident: Queen Annes Market? Is that it?
oO0Oo Resident: The public transport was very good
Zen Arado: I was only in Melbourne for two short visits
Zen Arado: remember the trams
oO0Oo Resident: yes the trams
Zen Arado: I went to Australia by boat
Zen Arado: and we stopped en route
Zen Arado: I have a friend from Melbourne lives in Belfast
Zen Arado: seems to like it here
Zen Arado: I spent 7 years in Sydney
Zen Arado: and a year in Brisbane
oO0Oo Resident: I'd take Sydney over Brisbane
Zen Arado: me too
oO0Oo Resident: Not to offend any Queenslanders out there
Zen Arado: Brisbane is very hot and muggy in summer
oO0Oo Resident: mmm, yes
Zen Arado: Hi Cal :)
Calvino Rabeni: Good evening / day
oO0Oo Resident: lovely sun shower rain at times and plants grow well
oO0Oo Resident: hi Cal, Nio
Zen Arado: wish I had gone back to see Sydney again when I was fitter
Zen Arado: Hi Nio
Zen Arado: the travelling would be too much for me now
nio Artful: i was born to sidney
nio Artful: my wife too
nio Artful: but i am living in greece
Zen Arado: yes?
oO0Oo Resident: Sydney Australia Nio?
Zen Arado: you are Australian then?
nio Artful: yes,
Zen Arado: but you don't live there now Nio?
Zen Arado: ah I see
nio Artful: i live in athens
Zen Arado: did your parents emigrate to Australia like me?
nio Artful: yes,
nio Artful: but they had a bad luck
Zen Arado: but they returned to Greece?
nio Artful: they made a property
Zen Arado: oh?
nio Artful: and that part of land
nio Artful: after a change of the city schedules
nio Artful: had to be rased
nio Artful: so they sold it cheap
Zen Arado: bad luck
Zen Arado: I was going to buy a piece of property
nio Artful: and came back to greece ..and hopefully bought a good piece of field in a nice area north of athens
Zen Arado: but I came back to Ireland for a holiday and never got around to going back
Zen Arado: they wouldn't let me live there now
nio Artful: thanks oOOo
nio Artful: oh?
oO0Oo Resident: your very welcome. hope it is helpful
oO0Oo Resident: you're*
nio Artful: i have bad greek spelling so it will not work
nio Artful giggles
oO0Oo Resident: np
oO0Oo Resident: hahahahahha!!!!
Zen Arado: :)
oO0Oo Resident: hi observerM
Zen Arado: Hi Observerm
observerm Resident: hello
Calvino Rabeni: I need to go friends, take care, have a good session
oO0Oo Resident: ty Cal
Zen Arado: bye Cal
oO0Oo Resident: nice to see you
Calvino Rabeni: _/!\_
nio Artful: i had too much to think and solve in my life so i had not enough gbites of my brain memory to use for spelling ...that was luxury for my lol....
nio Artful: my=me
Zen Arado: you must have left Australia when very young?
nio Artful: indeed
Zen Arado: or English would be your first language
Zen Arado: you could go and live there any time if you wanted?
nio Artful: no greek is
nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*YESSSSSS!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
nio Artful: i have the fair
oO0Oo Resident: hehehhehe
Zen Arado: since you wre born there
nio Artful: indeed
nio Artful: my wife too
nio Artful: but i need 2 years of staying there to have legal wrights
Zen Arado: but you like Greece better ?
nio Artful: legal
Zen Arado: ah ok
nio Artful: now greece has big problem
nio Artful: crisis

We shift to talking about finance and selfish behaviour:

Zen Arado: ah financial problems like Ireland
nio Artful: yes..
nio Artful: we have a proverb in greece it says....
Zen Arado: Australia seems unaffected by that
nio Artful: the lier and the thief the first year they are hapy
nio Artful: so there was alot of this bad cultyure around here
nio Artful: and it had to colapse one day
nio Artful: culture
oO0Oo Resident: yes, sometimes things have to fall apart before renewal
Zen Arado: yes - a kind of selfishness
nio Artful: mmm
Zen Arado: a culture of greed
nio Artful: indeed
oO0Oo Resident: then it is what is potentially lost that captures the hearts of those who might reinvest
nio Artful: that was hard for me to understand
Zen Arado: money is based on trust
Zen Arado: its value doesn't exist really
Zen Arado: it's only what we think it is
Zen Arado: if we believe in it
oO0Oo Resident: a place is imbued with the spirit of those that care about it. Then if greed is strong, the money and energy and chi, they flow away
Zen Arado: yo think so?
nio Artful: yes...the funny it that money is based also in the no trust......lol....contradictory but both happens in my subjective vew
Zen Arado: scoundrels always seem to prosper
oO0Oo Resident: hearts will always win
Zen Arado: I hope you are right Sam
Zen Arado: but inequality is always in societies
oO0Oo Resident: it's just our lives are short
oO0Oo Resident: so greed becomes appealing
Zen Arado: 'the rich get richer and the poor get poorer '
nio Artful: i believe that money and comercial are to the opposite side of unselfish empathy and love
oO0Oo Resident: agree
oO0Oo Resident: mostly
oO0Oo Resident: not necessarily perhaps
Zen Arado: 'the love of money is the root of all evil'
Zen Arado: not the money but loving it too much
Zen Arado: watched a TV documentary last night about how most of the top politicians in Britain were educated in public schools
Zen Arado: that means expensive schools in Britain
nio Artful: a short sighted understanding of our need to others................is like i need you in short term i do not trust you that you care for me so i want back now the exchanging symbol of the service i did to you in order to have it back in an sure way
Zen Arado: if we give like that is not really giving Nio
nio Artful: yes...
Zen Arado: we should give and not expect anything back
nio Artful: ~',','Oh..kay..kay..kay',','~
nio Artful: why?
Zen Arado: it is because we feel separate from others we think like that I think
Zen Arado: and we have so much fear and insecurity
nio Artful: indeed ...but is it bad to expect from others?
Zen Arado: and we think money is the answer to that
Zen Arado: it is if you depend on it
nio Artful: do we feel comfortable when others appreciate us as VALUABLE?
Zen Arado: but sometimes you have to....
nio Artful: do we have to appreciate others too and make them feel so?
nio Artful: would that have any meaning if there was not an expectation of them a realisation that we need them?
Zen Arado: because I am disabled I sometimes need help from others
Zen Arado: we do need others
nio Artful: or the problem is that we do understand that we need them but only in a short shithed way? and that in the birth of selfish love?
Zen Arado: we are all dependent on them ...more than we think
nio Artful: yes,,,
nio Artful: if we realise how much we need them for ever we will respect them and will never count how much we give to them ....
Zen Arado: we are interdependent beings though we think we can be independent
nio Artful: in order to take it back soon
nio Artful: we will be taking of them for ever

Learning how to be grateful:

Zen Arado: others work hard to provide us with so many things we take for granted
nio Artful: indeed
Zen Arado: electricity, water
nio Artful: and others are unfortunately numb little more as we are also are
Zen Arado: we lost our water supply for a while here this winter
Zen Arado: how bad that is
nio Artful: ok...
nio Artful: mmm
Zen Arado: and we never even think how precious that is
oO0Oo Resident listening to Nio, Zen
Zen Arado: I used to work in power stations and we had to work during Christmas
Zen Arado: but no one is grateful for that...
Zen Arado: or even thinks about it
Zen Arado: maybe we all aren't grateful enough....
nio Artful: we say a proverb in my country.....keep on knocking as much you like to the stone deaf mans door....he would not listen you
Zen Arado: understand Nio
oO0Oo Resident: mmm
nio Artful: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
nio Artful: ok...
nio Artful: sorry
nio Artful: so thats the drama......
oO0Oo Resident breathes out and relaxes
nio Artful: we are defending by numbing our conciousness so we feel less pain and the side effect is we feel less our self ,others and god
oO0Oo Resident: mmmm
nio Artful: less ability for empathy to
nio Artful: less awe
nio Artful: of being alife
Zen Arado: yes Nio - fear drives us into ourselves
nio Artful: mmm
Zen Arado: so what we need to do is....what?
nio Artful: nice quetion .....this is my life question too
nio Artful: lol....
nio Artful: question
Zen Arado: we need to try to be more open to others maybe
nio Artful: i onlyk now that i do not exist i want to exist
nio Artful: and i remember how i were when i was existing
Zen Arado: do you know the lojong slogans?
nio Artful: no..
Zen Arado: Sam?
oO0Oo Resident: yes Zen... Lojong is wonderful
nio Artful: i have tried some affairs but did not work lol..
oO0Oo Resident: lol
Zen Arado: this chat reminded me of the one 'Be grateful to everyone'
Zen Arado: http://lojongmindtraining.com/Commen...r=3&proverb=13
nio Artful: may i also learn that?
nio Artful: oh nice i will open it
Zen Arado: sure
oO0Oo Resident: if you remember LIFE Nio, then it is still in you, and can be again
Zen Arado: there are 59 of them I think ?
oO0Oo Resident: caring for/about others is a good path to life
Zen Arado: yes - and it opens us to their problems
nio Artful: i know the way but there is a canyon i have to cross and there are not enough skills and tools to bridge it up to now
Zen Arado: we realize we all have them
oO0Oo Resident: yes
Zen Arado: we have to work at it I think
nio Artful: i have bipolar disorder 2 and this is making my efforts double difficult
Zen Arado: selfishness seems to come more naturally to us I think :)
oO0Oo Resident: you don't seem selfish to me Nio
Zen Arado: me either
nio Artful: ♥ Thank Youuuuuuuuuu!! ♥
Zen Arado: bipolar is difficult

Nio's sound effects:

oO0Oo Resident loves the cute sound effects
Zen Arado: :)
nio Artful: every winter i have my resarection lol..
nio Artful: i have 2 folders collection of such voices i can share them with you if you want
Zen Arado: I don't even use the ones I have
Zen Arado: Hey!
oO0Oo Resident: i just enjoy how others express themselves nio. ty very much
oO0Oo Resident: hehe
nio Artful: ok..
nio Artful: yayyyyyyy!!!
oO0Oo Resident: reminds me of bertram
Zen Arado: Hey!
oO0Oo Resident: hahahahahhaa!!!!!!
oO0Oo Resident: they shift the energy. Do you notice?
nio Artful: yw
nio Artful: yes...\
oO0Oo Resident: make things light and fun
oO0Oo Resident: cheerful
oO0Oo Resident: it's nice
oO0Oo Resident: for me
Zen Arado: I have a French friend uses them a lot
nio Artful: i put dots after short words because usually these are triggers of such gestures and when i am in serious talk they distract me
Zen Arado: can you get them into the gestures menu?
Zen Arado: I seem to have lost some of mine
nio Artful: these are extra of the standard gestures sl gives
nio Artful: people making them and share them
nio Artful: i also made a lot music dance gestures
nio Artful: im amateur musician
nio Artful: but do not use them here pl
Zen Arado: ty Nio
nio Artful: *:-.,_,.-:*'``'*You're Welcome!!!!*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*
nio Artful: ΠΑΡΑΚΑΛΩ
Zen Arado: will try them later
oO0Oo Resident: thoughtful and polite, as well as not selfish Nio
oO0Oo Resident: also generous

Lojong slogans:

Zen Arado: I am practicing with these slogans again
Zen Arado: I choose one every morning and think of it during the day
nio Artful: in the ones in the link?
Zen Arado: yes
Zen Arado: also called 'The Seven Steps of Mind Training'
oO0Oo Resident: I find the commentaries at this site useful: http://lojongmindtraining.com/default.aspx
Zen Arado: that site I gave you the link to is useful because it has 7 commentaries on each slogan
nio Artful: nice i bookmark both of them
Zen Arado: it's the same one Sam :)
Zen Arado: but your's is the opening page
oO0Oo Resident: Also an ongoing series at Tricycle by Judy Lief: http://www.tricycle.com/complete-lojong-slogans
Zen Arado: yes
oO0Oo Resident: 1 each week
Zen Arado: I read them too
Zen Arado: might need a subscription for those?
oO0Oo Resident: no
oO0Oo Resident: shouldn't need
Zen Arado: oh good
Zen Arado: I have one anyway
Zen Arado: so many articles to read
Zen Arado: too many maybe
Zen Arado: can get me confused
Zen Arado: but you take what you wnat or need from them maybe
oO0Oo Resident: there's no problem
oO0Oo Resident: it percolates
nio Artful: nice
Zen Arado: I was reading authors recently nearly put me off meditation
Zen Arado: but I prefer to have my ideas challenged
Zen Arado: better than barinwashing yourself by reading narrowly things that you believe already
Zen Arado: I think anyway
Zen Arado: so long as you don't get too confused
Zen Arado: and the good stuff percolates and gets distilled out as you say Sam
nio Artful: what is brainwashing?
Zen Arado: kind of like reading things you want to believe over and over again
Zen Arado: convincing yourself
oO0Oo Resident: excuse me, I must go. A pleasure to have your good company Nio, and Zen
oO0Oo Resident: see you again
nio Artful: /
Zen Arado: think the term comes from a technique the Russians used to make prisoners believe things they didn't to start with?
Zen Arado: bye Sam
nio Artful: bye...
Zen Arado: I better go too Nio
Zen Arado: nice to talk again
nio Artful: nice to talk to you too
nio Artful: bye...
Zen Arado: bye