2008.07.23 07:00 - Good Hearts, Good Talk

Hi Everyone - This is Cal and here's the chatlog from Wed July 23 at 7am.  Maxine, Fael and I had a great discussion. Sometimes the text appeared in such rapid fire mode things were flying across the screen and you'll notice some interwovens threads in certain sections.  A great talk which I commented on a bit.  Enjoy.

Well, hello there:) -

Maxine Walden: hi Cal
Caledonia Heron:: hey Maxine! :)
Caledonia Heron:: sorry, I was camera-ing around :)
Maxine Walden: not at all; I do that here too
Maxine Walden: a lot to look at
Caledonia Heron:: how are things in your world?
Maxine Walden: things are pretty good, lots going on, as here in the PaB organization, and it takes
Maxine Walden: a bit of extra effort to try to remain centered and focused, how for you?
Caledonia Heron:: I'm good, thanks
Caledonia Heron:: busy it seems - sometimes I don't know where the time goes :)
Maxine Walden: right, time just whistles by
Caledonia Heron:: I *finally* remembered to turn off the time stamps in the log today ....that is a huge time sink taking them out to post on the wiki
Maxine Walden: oh, yes, I tried to do that and it did not take, but will try again; just unclick the time stamp preference?
Caledonia Heron:: You must also click "apply" after you do so
Maxine Walden: oh, that is the thing I did not do. Thanks, you just saved me a lot of time
Caledonia Heron:: lol, hallelujah!
Maxine Walden: right!!

Kira Kira, a whole star twinkles:

Maxine Walden: I saw your appointment to the board of directors in the PaB organization; congratulations!
Caledonia Heron:: ah, yes, thank you - unexpected and...welcome , it should be very interesting
Maxine Walden: Yes, I would think so
Caledonia Heron:: I know Pema and Stim have been working with Kira and all it's iterations for quite some time
Maxine Walden: yes, that is my understanding as well
Caledonia Heron:: I hope I will have things to contribute :)
Maxine Walden: You probably would not have been asked if they thought you did not. Expect you have a lot to offer

Dream a little dream:

Caledonia Heron:: I gather from some of the previous conversations that you're interested in dreams - how do you think that fits in with PaB? from your perspective?
Maxine Walden: for me dreams are messengers from the unconscious regions, so I look to them for 'messages' about whats going on in there
Caledonia Heron:: like they're telling the dreamer something?
Maxine Walden: it is interesting that early on when I first began PaB I had a lot of dreams, less more recently. Yes, informing to the dreamer
Caledonia Heron:: I think people cycle through periods of dream remembrance and non-remembrance based on a variety of factors
Maxine Walden: Yes, is that your experience?
Caledonia Heron:: yes, I think so - sometimes I remember them very vividly for stretches of time and then I don't ....but I'm sure I'm dreaming in those non-remembering times
Maxine Walden: yes, my notion is that we are always dreaming, but often remember them only when our conscious minds are not too busy
Caledonia Heron:: yes, busyness is a factor
Maxine Walden: for sure
Caledonia Heron:: it's interesting to think of dreams as messages, I think of them as processing data, things that have occured, things being mulled, making sense, parsing stuff
Maxine Walden: oh, I believe they are also processors of data input, so to speak; may have multiple functions, as seems to occur in the unconscious regions, at least to my view
Caledonia Heron:: yes that makes sense to me

What is not awake or a dream is a....?  :

Caledonia Heron:: I am interested in the area of conciousness that is not "here, awake", not "dream, asleep"
Maxine Walden: please say more
Caledonia Heron:: there's different, I guess knowings, like where you go when you have acupunture? it's not sleep, it's not awake...is it some alpha state?
Caledonia Heron:: I also related a recent experience in a chat with Stim where I was sitting at the beach with my eyes closed, just being at rest and feeling I don't know what, just not even there really.....at rest, content, nothing
Maxine Walden: yes, I am not familiar with acupuncture and allied arts much, but I am increasingly awed by the many layers of experience, many layers of consciousness as it were
Caledonia Heron:: I didn't realize what had happened until it was over
Maxine Walden: oh?
Caledonia Heron:: yeah, I came back into concious focus and thought, what was that?
Maxine Walden: a drifting to somewhere?
Caledonia Heron:: yes, I think maybe drifting, - it seemed like floating on the waves I could hear
Caledonia Heron: decline 'Blue Fusion Art and Music Pavil'  (
Maxine Walden: oh, very nice image and I can relate to that mixing of the sensory experience
Caledonia Heron:: yes auditory stimuli is very conducive to relaxation, for me, likely for most
Maxine Walden: I agree, the waves at the beach or lovely music, or birdsong as here

Faenik loves wells and Fael arrives:

Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: Hi Maxine, Cal :)
Caledonia Heron:: hi Fael :)

Maxine brings up how each of us approach the PaB group:

Maxine Walden: Cal, I was interested in your comment recently when someone mentioned buddhism re PaB and you made it clear you were here to search for reality, not as a buddhist practice
Maxine Walden: hi, Fael.
Caledonia Heron:: yes, I thought I would put it out there - I'm not a buddhist although I like where the buddhist philosophy is coming from
Maxine Walden: I may not be quoting you correctly, but thought you were making a distinction about your approach to PaB
Fael Illyar: I could make the same comment.
Caledonia Heron:: yes my approach, and I think also the fundamental grounding for PaB as I understand it
Caledonia Heron:: it is not Buddhist per se but something which Buddhists are naturally interested in
Faenik loves wells!
Fael Illyar: I'm here to explore. Not seek any particular religion.
Maxine Walden: right
Caledonia Heron:: agreed Fael, and... happy to listen to that perspective for insight but not for lessons, conversions, lectures, etc :)
Maxine Walden: I find myself drifting this way and that often influenced by what folks are saying, especially those who seem so certain, but always needed to recalibrate according to what feels true for me
Fael Illyar: you can learn things, no matter to whom you speak. Even if the one you're speaking to has no idea of them.
Caledonia Heron:: it sometimes feels a little heavy in that department so I'm just going on record for some balance :)
Caledonia Heron:: yes, Maxine, true to ones self seems an accurate approach
Fael Illyar: I somehow do the recalibration without really knowing about it.
Caledonia Heron:: lol, perfect Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Or then I just don't recognise it as such. It's just a part of exploring
Caledonia Heron:: some weeks back, towards the beginning of this I felt hard under it, the Buddhist influence, it seemed like that was the whole kit and kaboodle for certain gatherings
Caledonia Heron:: which is ok and... not all the time :)
Maxine Walden: the intriguing sense of letting oneself get a little lost and then finding ones way back;
Maxine Walden: but finding ones way back from being lost is not always pleasant
Caledonia Heron:: kind of like letting out the line on a fishing rod and reeling it back in :)

How do we truly know each others experience, can we "get" that?:

Fael Illyar: and then there is that with the topics we have here, words can't convey it properly. No matter who you hear things from, they'll always need some attention before they match what is real.
Caledonia Heron:: good point Fael
Faenik loves wells!
Maxine Walden: and for me one ongoing uncertainty is what is 'real'; it seems to change with the moment
Fael Illyar: it's quite hard to tell which of those two it is you call recalibration.
Caledonia Heron:: yes, as much as we can talk to each other we can't truly know each others experience - we can approximate it perhaps but not one for one
Caledonia Heron:: lol, yep, uncertainty is one thing you can count on :)

Illusions...it's all smoke and mirrors:

Maxine Walden: for sure for each other, and even what is real for me, because some of what I think as real is illusion
Caledonia Heron:: yeah, the stuff we make up is very powerful, very fetching, it can trick us
Maxine Walden: and so finding myself ongoingly seems part of the practice, but part of life
Fael Illyar: always keep some room for doubt :)

It gets a little choppy here text wise - several things interleaved in a real texting hoedown; doubt, object spirits, randomness:

Caledonia Heron:: I think my car is playing the 9sec game
Caledonia Heron:: it has taking to making a chime at the x:59
Maxine Walden: doubt constantly hovers, hopefully creatively. Car?
Fael Illyar: if you don't, you risk it becoming an attachment :)
Caledonia Heron:: every hour, it makes at sound on the :59 - I love it, drives my husband cuckoo :)
Fael Illyar: hehe :)
Maxine Walden: ah, like a shoulder pet, Cal?
Caledonia Heron:: yes Maxine, doubt does hover like a mosquito during perplexing times, like when making big decisions
Caledonia Heron:: lol, yes Maxine
Caledonia Heron:: it's like it's saying ...."checking in, how are you?"
Caledonia Heron:: I've truly lost it - inanimate objects making contact :)
Faenik: ah :)
Maxine Walden: yes, your own conversation with your car. Ah, but maybe we breathe life into our inanimate objects
Fael Illyar: is the computer you're using an inanimate object?
Maxine Walden: Fael, you breathe life into Faenik I believe
Caledonia Heron:: yes Maxine, like theres little spirits in them, personalities, essence
Fael Illyar: I sometimes make it say things myself but most of the time it's random lines.
Maxine Walden: ah...
Fael Illyar: the random lines that you see often are things I leave to the random.
Fael Illyar: I don't make it say those myself.
Maxine Walden: I see
Caledonia Heron:: there's a filmmaker who presents this in a very compelling way - makes kids movies like Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke
Maxine Walden: not familiar with that film maker but sounds enchanting
Fael Illyar: ah yes, Miyazaki
Caledonia Heron:: Miyazaki? sp wrong?
Caledonia Heron:: oh! amazing, I remembered
Fael Illyar: I've watched a few of the movies but I fast got tired of it. They started feeling like the same thing again in slightly different wrapping
Caledonia Heron:: sure, there are similarities and... the composition, animation, music is very good
Caledonia Heron:: so different than western perspective
Caledonia Heron:: softer, more fluid, more art based
Maxine Walden: more fantasy, it sounds like
Caledonia Heron:: yes, heavy fantasy element

Cultural perspectives:

Fael Illyar: Although, I guess I've got more than usual of the Japanese perspective.
Caledonia Heron:: really? I picture you in [place]...maybe I got it wrong
Fael Illyar: I find there generally is more to be found in Japanese films than there are in western ones.
Fael Illyar: Yes, I am [nationality] and live in [place] :)
Caledonia Heron:: lol, ok, got part of the equation right

Participating at 100%:

Fael Illyar: it seems whatever I do, I dive into the deep end :)
Caledonia Heron:: :)
Maxine Walden: tidbits about how we understand/what we understand about each other
Maxine Walden: Into the deep end, Fael?
Fael Illyar: Yes, when I decide to start doing something new by myself, I often submerge myself fully for quite some time.

Uh-oh, backtracking to knowing people and forward tracking to participating:

Caledonia Heron:: something else on a previous thread - about knowing people ....I have known someone for a very, and I mean very long time, and I am amazed sometimes how I do not "get" them on occasion or he does not "get" me in some situation
Caledonia Heron:: me too Fael, totally immersed, submerged, There
Fael Illyar: It's possible to know someone for a long time without ever really going too deep.
Maxine Walden: like ships passing in the night? of some other missing?
Caledonia Heron:: like a gem with facets and the light turns and a new face or facet shines out to you
Faenik: ????^^
Maxine Walden: Fael, I do that sometimes, dive deeply and sometimes it is very creative and sometimes I can get a bit lost, as if getting ahead of myself a bit; does that occur for you?
Caledonia Heron:: like, hey, where did that come from - is that you?
Faenik: ah :)
Caledonia Heron:: yes, true for me Maxine - a rush and whirl of activity, plunging ahead
Fael Illyar: Yes, what happens varies.
Fael Illyar: if I develop an attachment, it's likely to get derailed :)
Maxine Walden: oh, yes, and may illuminate that we thought we knew that person and now suddenly something we did not know or expect
Caledonia Heron:: lol, 5 boxcar pileup on track 29
Fael Illyar: or well, was... might be different now that I have tools for handling those
Maxine Walden: (aware of at least two strands of conversation here)
Caledonia Heron:: I know Maxine - 2 intense threads ....what a texting marvel
Caledonia Heron:: good point Fael, having the toolkit primed and ready is helpful

Well, we survived the near texting trainwreck above and shared some good info - it was a challenge because the ideas were complex and it was going really fast on the screen.  Now we must part our ways for a time:

Maxine Walden: oh, dear, having to go to RL work. Hard to leave a conversation I am enjoying so much
Caledonia Heron:: :)
Caledonia Heron:: it's ok, we'll be back :)
Fael Illyar: See you later Maxine :)
Fael Illyar: Nice seeing you again :)
Maxine Walden: yes, many more conversations in the future, I hope
Maxine Walden: bye for now
Caledonia Heron:: yes, bye Maxine, nice chatting with you :)

oops, one more go round on diving into stuff:

Caledonia Heron:: I was thinking about your comment about diving in on new things....
Fael Illyar: yes?
Caledonia Heron:: reflecting on when and how I do it.....outcomes of that
Caledonia Heron:: often times those are really creative periods
Caledonia Heron:: lots of ideas, fresh stuff, really made up - not pre-fab
Fael Illyar: Well, one of the results for me is that I can speak Japanese fluently enough that I had a few Japanese doubt if I'm really not Japanese after 2 hours of conversation.
Caledonia Heron:: lol, wow! impressive
Caledonia Heron:: I have heard that is a complicated language to learn
Fael Illyar: well, texting, that is, with spoken Japanese I'd stand out as foreigner immediately still :)
Caledonia Heron:: makes sense...convey the essence without the formal structure
Fael Illyar: I haven't had much practise with pronouncing
Caledonia Heron:: that would summarize my spanish :)
Fael Illyar: :)
Fael Illyar: More recent would be my wings. I hadn't done anything like this sort of design before.
Caledonia Heron:: they are very nice - very ethereal
Caledonia Heron:: wispy
Fael Illyar: Thank you :)
Caledonia Heron:: how do you begin something like that? photoshop?
Fael Illyar: I've been slowly making one more design that will be somewhat different.
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: might still take a couple of weeks until I get it done. I'm not doing it very fast :)
Caledonia Heron:: yes, at your leisure seems a good way, -- can't force the creative :)
Fael Illyar: Yes :)

A scheduled thing creates a no-schedule:

Fael Illyar: I sometimes look at the design with the 15 minute bells and do a thing or two
Caledonia Heron:: sure, focus points
Fael Illyar: Interesting how I use them to improve my multitasking .)
Caledonia Heron:: maybe I should try it - it comes down to time management so often for me
Fael Illyar: I've long been wanting to be able to manage my life without schedules. I might finally have found how :)
Caledonia Heron:: lol hilarious...with a schedule!!
Fael Illyar: yes, sort of :)
Fael Illyar: it both is a schedule and isn't :)
Caledonia Heron:: I really get a kick out of that :)
Fael Illyar: There's nothing set in stone, except a bell sound every 15 minutes :)
Caledonia Heron:: yes :) a reset, a hello self
Fael Illyar: yes :)
Faenik loves wells!

Farewell, adieu...:

Caledonia Heron:: I have a meeting, I must go ..... I'm so glad you stopped by today :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later, Cal :)
Fael Illyar: It was nice talking to you again :)
Caledonia Heron:: yes for sure, I'll be around :)
Caledonia Heron:: bye