2008.07.15 19:00 - Eyes Wide Shut

The guardian for the meeting was Friedrich Ochsenhorn, and the comments are his. Doug and Stevenaia shared the evening slot on this beautiful summer night.

Chawan : Don't you feel at one with nature now, Friedrich Ochsenhorn so peaceful and relaxed.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi doug!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: you snuck up on me
doug Sosa: hi!
doug Sosa: i snuck up on myself!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: boo!
doug Sosa: ouch!
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.37993, -0.59639, 0.37975, 0.59646>
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh
doug Sosa: that was a great move!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: floating w/ an invisible cup in hand
doug Sosa: like tai chi
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: don't laugh. i think steve and sylectra are prepping a tai chi-style PaB movie
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: coming soon to a tea house near you
doug Sosa: yikes.
doug Sosa: i just finished a shower after clearing more limbs off of trees on the river by my hut.
doug Sosa: good to sit
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: no doubt. sounds intensive.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do you mean on your new plot of land?
doug Sosa: no, in rl
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: excellent! yes, there are certainly ways where avatars sitting and running around can feel relaxing or exhusting
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: is this a full time residence, or a summer home?
doug Sosa: yes. i love going abck and forth between more intellectual stuff and the jungle.
doug Sosa: full time
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i've got my urban jungle
doug Sosa: well, i am gone a few days a week on another gig.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: travel alot?
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doug Sosa: i used to live in manhattan, home of the urban jungle, unless it is LA, travel some, not too much, once a month awayfrom here enough to take a palne.
doug Sosa: "plane"
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: how come you left?
doug Sosa: left?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: city life
doug Sosa: oh, NY? well, so many changes. city when i was inwashington dc, lots of plane travel, thought it would be nice to come "home" to thecountry.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
doug Sosa: hi.
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Doug, Fredrich
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i have sometimes imagined living someplace with mountains in the background, and streams/rivers that sort of thing
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: if I'm going to live in a city though, NY makes sense to me (at least in America)
doug Sosa: i do now, enough so that i can't tell if the birds are from the reterat here or at home.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: sounds gorgeous
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i better stop dreaming and start planning
doug Sosa: every place has its beauty, really. though some times it wears badly.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i actually love it here. many layers of friends and family. its home.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not to mention, a bit of a black hole - very tough to leave!
doug Sosa: yes, that is really good. black hole? just momentum, or more?
Chawan : Mmmm, delicious green cha made in the ceremonial Japanese tradition, Friedrich Ochsenhorn, so refreshing!
Chawan : Mmm..
Chawan : Mmm..
doug Sosa: inwish we had the bandwidth for real tea.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: its not just me - many people i know come here "temporarily" and years later are still around
Chawan : Mmm..
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: "You Will"
Chawan : Mmm..
doug Sosa: may i ask, where is "here"?
Chawan : Mmm..
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: me? I live in manhattan, on the UWS
Chawan : Mmm..
Chawan : Don't you feel at one with nature now, Friedrich Ochsenhorn so peaceful and relaxed.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hah! see, all i need is the chawan to feel at one w/ nature
stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be in for bagels @ H&H shortly, will let you know
doug Sosa: I lived on the east side as a child, 88th and 1st, german neighborhood then, tough.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: please do!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i've made it about a zip code from where i grew up ;-)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but I have left the island, on occasion
doug Sosa: i keep finding myself on islands, and now by a river - childhood patterns cut deep.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: now that's interesting. cyclical recurrances.
doug Sosa: what got me out of my zip code was i left home at fifteen, and thought, winter, better go where its warm, so i went to southern california.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i prefer the cold to the heat
doug Sosa: southern cal is pretty moderate, cooler than new york summers.
You: fall is my favorite (though fall and spring are kinda the same season, time reversed)
doug Sosa: central park?
You: hey - i'm just subbing tonight, but since its a small group and we're a ll ny'ers (in spirit) I am more htan happy to zen out on NYC
You: but, please speak up if you want to talk PaB directly. I actually think I can pull off the segue
stevenaia Michinaga: ...smile, NY is my vacation
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes - the city is like one big museum
doug Sosa: let's try. i notice that the 9 sec feels different when i am physically tired from physical work.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: or amusment park
stevenaia Michinaga: but I;m actually in Ithaca tonight
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what do you mean different? can you please elaborate?
doug Sosa: things feel closer in, warmer colors,a little out of focus at the edges.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i think i can relate. even tonight, i was a bit wiped, and the 9 sec was more fuzzy downtime, than focused
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do either of you consistently keep your eyes open or closed for the 9 seconds?
doug Sosa: like i was cutting branches with a saw at the end of a long pole, and my shoulders are sore, and at 9 sec, the shoulder soreness is about as intense as other perceptions.
doug Sosa: intersting, i keep mine open but not focused.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i ussually keep them open, but turn my head and look awaway from what i was doing
doug Sosa: or i'd fall out of the tree...:)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hah! that would remove quite a few limbs quickly
doug Sosa: yes, both the tree and me!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (maybe not just hte tree's)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ;-)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: when i have a soreness or stiffness, even before I started playing with this practice, I think i used to concentrate on the sensation's intensness
doug Sosa: i kind of let it blend in, like mustard on a ham sandwhich.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hold the mayo?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: that's great, that you incorportate this into physical activity
doug Sosa: (I'm still waiting for the bagels!) and in five minutes its dinneer time ehre.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i dunno about ham and mayo on a bagel ;-) you probably won't find that combo at zabars
stevenaia Michinaga: I had an interesting 9 sec moment today as I was driving up here, it related to something Thorberg said yesterday about self and being... in this moment I saw self as being underwater and being as my head rose out of the water
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i bike, and don't feel too safe taking a pause while riding
doug Sosa: california is different. an easy combo that one. hold the anchovies.
doug Sosa: bikig requires so muc close attention.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: stevenaia: have you felt that way before?
doug Sosa: "biking"
stevenaia Michinaga: seem to make sence at the time
doug Sosa: i like that underwater/above water. makes sense, body more earth bound, mind more flying, ethereal.
stevenaia Michinaga: well this group was helped me understand the state of me more and more, Therberg said something yesterday that made sence
You: what did he say?
stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut don't remember what it was
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: luckily we keep meticulous logs!
stevenaia Michinaga: I can;t wait to read it
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: have either of you ever gone scuba diving?
doug Sosa: yes.
stevenaia Michinaga: but it must have sank into my mind and came out in my 9 sec moment
stevenaia Michinaga: no
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (btw - i happen to think its great that you are sure he said something important, but can't remmber what it was)
stevenaia Michinaga: I will check to see if it;s posted one moment
doug Sosa: "sunk into my mind" love it. the continuity of the water metaphor, and scuba.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: maybe our brains can use hte 9 seconds to lay down memories. who knows waht might correlate with the stress relief
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what i love most about diving is the feeling of weightlessness
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: although the fact that you spend the entire time focused intensly on your breating is a close second
doug Sosa: i did buddy breathing with my children, then 6,7 and 9. Powerful bonding.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: wow. athat sounds amazing.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: so, steve, had you felt this way during a pause before?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do you think it had to do w/ driving?
doug Sosa: the locals treated it as normal, so we just did it.
doug Sosa: teve is checking the transcript.
stevenaia Michinaga: i usually or rarely do not do the 9 sec moments
stevenaia Michinaga: the log is posted but it was a complicated discussion involving as story as an example
doug Sosa: bell, dinner, i must leave... bye, and thanks!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: doug, were your children scared during the buddy breathing (or you, for that matter?)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh. g'night!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i am very undisciplined when it comes to this discipline
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
You: i mostly strive for once an hour, but rarely hit that
You: i love the idea of it though ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: I fit in what I can, but yes, love the idea,
stevenaia Michinaga: but it can't fit us all in the same way
You: i'm content.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, exactly
You: i've glipsed its power.
You: and it will find me when i need it.
You: i actually think this entire PaB experience has helped me weave quite a few disperate threads together these past few months
stevenaia Michinaga: I find it comforting to see what I think I see amoung other people as well
You: though, at this point, i is difficult to isolate the practice from the larger project
You: (the community, the structure, administration, etc)
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I agree, I see this place a more of a psycic lubricant of sorts, if that makes sence
You: no doubt. it's quite amazing to me what's happening here.
You: community's aren't /that/ easy to cultivate, especially without a shared mission or purpose
stevenaia Michinaga: things become clearer faster , rather than changing or tranforming me
You: hmm... you mean your work?
You: issues in your life?
stevenaia Michinaga: but ti may jsut not be percetable to me
stevenaia Michinaga: no understanding here
stevenaia Michinaga: understanding points of view related to tops discusssed here
stevenaia Michinaga: especially from people who don;t understand
You: yes, there is alot of important teaching happening here, you are right
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stevenaia Michinaga: for em there is,
You: 'psychic lubricant' - i'll have to use that
stevenaia Michinaga: feel free
You: well, teaching and learning, i realized i should have said afer i typed it
stevenaia Michinaga: if it fits