2008.07.15 19:00 - Eyes Wide Shut

The guardian for the meeting was Friedrich Ochsenhorn, and the comments are his. doug and stevenaia (and Chawan the teacup) shared the evening slot on this beautiful summer night.

Chawan : Don't you feel at one with nature now, Friedrich Ochsenhorn so peaceful and relaxed.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hi doug!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: you snuck up on me
doug Sosa: hi!
doug Sosa: i snuck up on myself!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: boo!

doug Sosa: ouch!
pillow - kneel: Rotation = <0.37993, -0.59639, 0.37975, 0.59646>
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: heh
doug Sosa: that was a great move!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: floating w/ an invisible cup in hand
doug Sosa: like tai chi
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: don't laugh. i think steve and sylectra are prepping a tai chi-style PaB movie
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: coming soon to a tea house near you
doug Sosa: yikes.
doug Sosa: i just finished a shower after clearing more limbs off of trees on the river by my hut.
doug Sosa: good to sit
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: no doubt. sounds intensive.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do you mean on your new plot of land?
doug Sosa: no, in rl
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: excellent! yes, there are certainly ways where avatars sitting and running around can feel relaxing or exhusting
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: is this a full time residence, or a summer home?
doug Sosa: yes. i love going abck and forth between more intellectual stuff and the jungle.
doug Sosa: full time
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i've got my urban jungle
doug Sosa: well, i am gone a few days a week on another gig.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: travel alot?
stevenaia Michinaga is Online
doug Sosa: i used to live in manhattan, home of the urban jungle, unless it is LA, travel some, not too much, once a month awayfrom here enough to take a palne.
doug Sosa: "plane"
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: how come you left?
doug Sosa: left?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: city life
doug Sosa: oh, NY? well, so many changes. city when i was inwashington dc, lots of plane travel, thought it would be nice to come "home" to thecountry.

stevenaia arrives on the scene, and we continue talking about nature and urban life. All three of us have spent time living in New York City, and we shared our feelings about The Big Apple.

Friedrich Ochsenhorn: Hi Steve!
stevenaia Michinaga: hello
doug Sosa: hi.
stevenaia Michinaga: hi Doug, Fredrich
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i have sometimes imagined living someplace with mountains in the background, and streams/rivers that sort of thing
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: if I'm going to live in a city though, NY makes sense to me (at least in America)
doug Sosa: i do now, enough so that i can't tell if the birds are from the reterat here or at home.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: sounds gorgeous
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i better stop dreaming and start planning
doug Sosa: every place has its beauty, really. though some times it wears badly.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i actually love it here. many layers of friends and family. its home.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: not to mention, a bit of a black hole - very tough to leave!
doug Sosa: yes, that is really good. black hole? just momentum, or more?
Chawan : Mmmm, delicious green cha made in the ceremonial Japanese tradition, Friedrich Ochsenhorn, so refreshing!
Chawan : Mmm..
Chawan : Mmm..
doug Sosa: inwish we had the bandwidth for real tea.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: its not just me - many people i know come here "temporarily" and years later are still around

Chawan : Mmm..
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: "You Will"
Chawan : Mmm..
doug Sosa: may i ask, where is "here"?
Chawan : Mmm..
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: me? I live in manhattan, on the UWS
Chawan : Mmm..
Chawan : Don't you feel at one with nature now, Friedrich Ochsenhorn so peaceful and relaxed.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hah! see, all i need is the chawan to feel at one w/ nature
stevenaia Michinaga: I'll be in for bagels @ H&H shortly, will let you know
doug Sosa: I lived on the east side as a child, 88th and 1st, german neighborhood then, tough.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: please do!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i've made it about a zip code from where i grew up ;-)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but I have left the island, on occasion
doug Sosa: i keep finding myself on islands, and now by a river - childhood patterns cut deep.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: now that's interesting. cyclical recurrances.
doug Sosa: what got me out of my zip code was i left home at fifteen, and thought, winter, better go where its warm, so i went to southern california.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i prefer the cold to the heat
doug Sosa: southern cal is pretty moderate, cooler than new york summers.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: fall is my favorite (though fall and spring are kinda the same season, time reversed)
doug Sosa: central park?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hey - i'm just subbing tonight, but since its a small group and we're a ll ny'ers (in spirit) I am more htan happy to zen out on NYC
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: but, please speak up if you want to talk PaB directly. I actually think I can pull off the segue
stevenaia Michinaga: ...smile, NY is my vacation
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes - the city is like one big museum

doug Sosa: let's try. i notice that the 9 sec feels different when i am physically tired from physical work.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: or amusment park
stevenaia Michinaga: but I;m actually in Ithaca tonight
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what do you mean different? can you please elaborate?

doug Sosa: things feel closer in, warmer colors,a little out of focus at the edges.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i think i can relate. even tonight, i was a bit wiped, and the 9 sec was more fuzzy downtime, than focused
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do either of you consistently keep your eyes open or closed for the 9 seconds?
doug Sosa: like i was cutting branches with a saw at the end of a long pole, and my shoulders are sore, and at 9 sec, the shoulder soreness is about as intense as other perceptions.
doug Sosa: intersting, i keep mine open but not focused.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i ussually keep them open, but turn my head and look awaway from what i was doing
doug Sosa: or i'd fall out of the tree...:)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hah! that would remove quite a few limbs quickly
doug Sosa: yes, both the tree and me!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (maybe not just hte tree's)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: ;-)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: when i have a soreness or stiffness, even before I started playing with this practice, I think i used to concentrate on the sensation's intensness
doug Sosa: i kind of let it blend in, like mustard on a ham sandwhich.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hold the mayo?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: that's great, that you incorportate this into physical activity
doug Sosa: (I'm still waiting for the bagels!) and in five minutes its dinneer time ehre.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i dunno about ham and mayo on a bagel ;-) you probably won't find that combo at zabars

stevenaia Michinaga: I had an interesting 9 sec moment today as I was driving up here, it related to something Thorberg said yesterday about self and being... in this moment I saw self as being underwater and being as my head rose out of the water
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i bike, and don't feel too safe taking a pause while riding
doug Sosa: california is different. an easy combo that one. hold the anchovies.
doug Sosa: bikig requires so muc close attention.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: stevenaia: have you felt that way before?
doug Sosa: "biking"
stevenaia Michinaga: seem to make sence at the time
doug Sosa: i like that underwater/above water. makes sense, body more earth bound, mind more flying, ethereal.

stevenaia Michinaga: well this group was helped me understand the state of me more and more, Therberg said something yesterday that made sence
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what did he say?
stevenaia Michinaga: I jsut don't remember what it was
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: luckily we keep meticulous logs!
stevenaia Michinaga: I can;t wait to read it

Friedrich Ochsenhorn: have either of you ever gone scuba diving?
doug Sosa: yes.
stevenaia Michinaga: but it must have sank into my mind and came out in my 9 sec moment
stevenaia Michinaga: no
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (btw - i happen to think its great that you are sure he said something important, but can't remmber what it was)
stevenaia Michinaga: I will check to see if it;s posted one moment
doug Sosa: "sunk into my mind" love it. the continuity of the water metaphor, and scuba.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: maybe our brains can use hte 9 seconds to lay down memories. who knows waht might correlate with the stress relief
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: what i love most about diving is the feeling of weightlessness
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: although the fact that you spend the entire time focused intensly on your breating is a close second
doug Sosa: i did buddy breathing with my children, then 6,7 and 9. Powerful bonding.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: wow. athat sounds amazing.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: so, steve, had you felt this way during a pause before?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: do you think it had to do w/ driving?
doug Sosa: the locals treated it as normal, so we just did it.
doug Sosa: teve is checking the transcript.
stevenaia Michinaga: i usually or rarely do not do the 9 sec moments
stevenaia Michinaga: the log is posted but it was a complicated discussion involving as story as an example

doug Sosa: bell, dinner, i must leave... bye, and thanks!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: doug, were your children scared during the buddy breathing (or you, for that matter?)
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: oh. g'night!
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, i am very undisciplined when it comes to this discipline
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i mostly strive for once an hour, but rarely hit that
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i love the idea of it though ;-)
stevenaia Michinaga: I fit in what I can, but yes, love the idea,
stevenaia Michinaga: but it can't fit us all in the same way
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i'm content.
stevenaia Michinaga: yes, exactly
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i've glipsed its power.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: and it will find me when i need it.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: i actually think this entire PaB experience has helped me weave quite a few disperate threads together these past few months
stevenaia Michinaga: I find it comforting to see what I think I see amoung other people as well
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: though, at this point, i is difficult to isolate the practice from the larger project
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: (the community, the structure, administration, etc)

stevenaia Michinaga: yes, I agree, I see this place a more of a psycic lubricant of sorts, if that makes sence
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: no doubt. it's quite amazing to me what's happening here.
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: community's aren't /that/ easy to cultivate, especially without a shared mission or purpose
stevenaia Michinaga: things become clearer faster , rather than changing or tranforming me
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: hmm... you mean your work?
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: issues in your life?
stevenaia Michinaga: but ti may jsut not be percetable to me
stevenaia Michinaga: no understanding here
stevenaia Michinaga: understanding points of view related to tops discusssed here
stevenaia Michinaga: especially from people who don;t understand
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: yes, there is alot of important teaching happening here, you are right
Solobill Laville is Offline
stevenaia Michinaga: for em there is,
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: 'psychic lubricant' - i'll have to use that
stevenaia Michinaga: feel free
Friedrich Ochsenhorn: well, teaching and learning, i realized i should have said afer i typed it
stevenaia Michinaga: if it fits