2008.07.05 07:00 - Shoulder Pet Invasion

The Guardian for this meeting was Fael Illyar and the comments are Fael's.

This afternoon, I teleported in and tpd a few people after me. Delani, Stranger and Hariharan. Stranger had already been to one meeting but for Hariharan it was the first.

Adams Rubble: Hi Faenik :)
Hariharan Karu: wow i can hardly see a thing
Faenik: Hello Adams
Delani Gabardini: hi adams
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
Adams Rubble: Hi Delani
Adams Rubble: Hi Fael
Delani Gabardini: come in hari and stranger
Adams Rubble: Hi Stranger
Delani Gabardini: adams meet hari
Adams Rubble: Hello Hari
Hariharan Karu: Hi Adams :)
Delani Gabardini: we welcome her to PaB
Delani Gabardini: i saw someone walking behind us
Delani Gabardini: why do i always get the kneeling cushions
Adams Rubble: I see that Hari has a playmate for Faenik
Delani Gabardini: so who starts us
Fael Illyar: Well, things usually start going at around 10 minutes past the start but we can try starting already if someone has a topic?
Adams Rubble is wondering why everyone has a pet but her

Before we teleported here, Delani, Stranger and Hariharan had all decided to wear a shoulder pet, inspired by Faenik.

Delani Gabardini: we can wait - did u tell Hari about the website and the logs

Pia arrives.

Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, introduction was left slightly incomplete.
Fael Illyar: Hi Pia
Delani Gabardini: hi pia
Pia Iger: Hi,
Adams Rubble: hi Pia
Fael Illyar: These meetings a re blogged you can find logs for past meetings at http://playasbeing.wordpress.com/
Hariharan Karu: hi Pia :)
Delani Gabardini: all very interesting
Fael Illyar: You don't mind your name going on the blog I hope?
Hariharan Karu: thanks :)
Hariharan Karu: not at all :)
Delani Gabardini: so Hari your sl name will be in todays log
Hariharan Karu: hehe
Faenik: why not?
Delani Gabardini: anyone have a topic?
Delani Gabardini: this is going to be a very short log
Adams Rubble: :)
Fael Illyar: I had a list of topics but I used them up already. :)
Delani Gabardini: well lets re-use
Delani Gabardini: new ideas

Delani tries to get the ball rolling.

Delani Gabardini: OK - does anyone here go beyond the 9 secs
Delani Gabardini: as in is it so pleasant that u don't want to leave
Fael Illyar: Well, I sometimes take longer if I'm having trouble stopping within the 9 seconds :)
Pia Iger: me, too
Delani Gabardini: it reminds me of my teacher who says eventually u are in a continous state of meditation
Hariharan Karu: :)
Delani Gabardini: so the 9 secs become 10 and 11 and finally continuous?
Fael Illyar: The border where you actually stop the exploration is a bit fuzzy I guess :)
Fael Illyar: but I usually return to doing what I was doing after the 9 seconds.
Faenik: could be
Adams Rubble: I don;t time the nine seconds and since I write a log, it often goes longer
Delani Gabardini: my teacher has been a Buddhist monk since childhood and is now 61 - he is in a perpetual state of bliss
Fael Illyar: However, whatever change the exploration causes, stays with me for a while.
Delani Gabardini: so adams do u find u can do the 9 secs on a regular basis
Delani Gabardini: i ask because u and i started PaB around the same time
Adams Rubble: I was doing it, the past few days I have been off schedule but I went away for three days and yesterday was a holiday
Delani Gabardini: yes
Delani Gabardini: i find it difficult to be on a schedule
Faenik: indeed?
Delani Gabardini: but I can remember to do my 30 mins of meditation each morning
Pia Iger: time is not important, as long as we continue to do it.
Delani Gabardini: ty - I agree with than Pia
Fael Illyar: I use bell sounds every 15 minutes.
Delani Gabardini: but what do u do when u are out and about
Delani Gabardini: carry your bell
Fael Illyar: When I'm out and about, so far I've done them whenever I remember
Hariharan Karu: biological clock :)
Adams Rubble: Some of us are attached to our computers :)

Delani shares what might happen if you do an exploration before a crowd.

Delani Gabardini: u know i experiemented when I had a class and the students thought i had a seizure
Adams Rubble: hehe
Pia Iger: hahha
Delani Gabardini: 9 secs is along time
Pia Iger: what did you do, just stare at them for 9-sec?
Delani Gabardini: no I stared into space and they were really uncomfortable
Fael Illyar: Just make sure they know what it is :)
Delani Gabardini: but semester is over for the summer so I will work on it next semester - I may have them do it also
Delani Gabardini: altho i think most of them are in perpetual 9 secs oblivion
Pia Iger: what do you teach?
Faenik: why not?
Delani Gabardini: college
Delani Gabardini: management classes with computers
Pia Iger: that is good class for 9 sec.
Delani Gabardini: yes I think it will be good for them
Pia Iger: cooking class is not suitable:)
Adams Rubble: :)
Delani Gabardini: no - burn down the kitchen
Delani Gabardini: do u teach cooking Pia
Pia Iger: no. just a thought.
Delani Gabardini: umm
Delani Gabardini: so what do some of u do in your 9 secs or do u do nothingness

Delani tells us about a recent Zen camp she was a part of.

Delani Gabardini: to elaborate - I ran a Zen camp for teens last week and we did 9 secs
Pia Iger: ah
Delani Gabardini: the children and I decided to just "be"
Delani Gabardini: for whatever meaning that had for each of us
Pia Iger: wonder how teens feel about it?
Delani Gabardini: they had to do a lot of meditation during the day but at night when we went back to the cabin we did practise
Delani Gabardini: i asked them and most of them said they were thinking about what they were supposed to think about
Adams Rubble: :)
Delani Gabardini: they thought there should be something told to them to do
Delani Gabardini: so i told them to just let their mind go free
Delani Gabardini: some said they were flying - isn't that great
Fael Illyar: :)
Faenik: could be
Delani Gabardini: children can do this very well
Pia Iger: "Zen camp for teens" is quite special, no?
Pia Iger: never heard of
Delani Gabardini: yes - it was our first one and a great success
Delani Gabardini: but these children were coming from asian buddhist homes so they were more prepared
Pia Iger: that is easier to understand. It's hard to imagine normal amerian teens to do it.
Delani Gabardini: but on one hand they were normal american kids - they all came with iPods and cells
Adams Rubble: "normal" ?
Delani Gabardini: but after the first day they put them away on their own
Delani Gabardini: well - they were born here and raised in our school systems
Pia Iger: I mean normal -- without asian buddhist background
Faenik loves wells!
Delani Gabardini: but that is just it - the parents felt they were losing their asian Buddhist roots
Delani Gabardini: many stopped going to the temples
Adams Rubble: Excuse me, I have to go. Bye all :)
Delani Gabardini: many had never meditated before
Delani Gabardini: bye adams
Fael Illyar: Ok, Bye Adams :)
Pia Iger: bye, Adams.

Adams suddenly has to go. Delani is worried about her subject having driven Adams away and Pia expresses worry about not fitting in. We make life is complex.

Delani Gabardini: i think i drove her away
Pia Iger: now I am the only one having no animal on shoulder:(
Fael Illyar: It's not going to the temples that's important. It's all within your mind.
Faenik: なるほど^^
Delani Gabardini: true
Delani Gabardini: pia u have a shoulder bear now
Pia Iger: wrong direction?
Delani Gabardini: the bear seems to be sitting stangely

Delani gave Pia a polar bear (sponsored by Coca Cola). But it settled on her in a weird way.

Delani Gabardini: i am sorry I have to go
Delani Gabardini: sister is here
Delani Gabardini: hari - I hope i see u again
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Delani :)
Hariharan Karu: sorry i have been so quiet,,, i went to get a drink
Hariharan Karu: be well :)
Pia Iger: bye, Delani
Delani Gabardini: pia, stranger - nice to see u have a wonderful day
Delani Gabardini: u as well fael dear
Stranger Nightfire: bye Delani
Pia Iger: Harl, is it am or pm for you?
Hariharan Karu: pm now :)

Somehow Delani took the conversation with her so I tried if I could get a new one kindled.

Fael Illyar: Hari, what kind of meditation do you do?
Hariharan Karu: hmm i have tried a few different kinds
Hariharan Karu: i have tried brahma yoga meditation
Hariharan Karu: some work with chi kung
Hariharan Karu: and other meditation like silence
Fael Illyar: Is there anything you do regularly?
Faenik loves wells!
Hariharan Karu: yes faenik we know you love wells :)
Hariharan Karu: not really any in specific i do regularly
Hariharan Karu: tho the main one would have to be brahma yoga
Fael Illyar: What's that like?
Hariharan Karu: sitting, closing your eyes and using visualisation techniques
Hariharan Karu: like merging with the cosmic conciousness
Pia Iger: what kind of visual?
Hariharan Karu: visualising and feeling yourself becoming one with everything
Hariharan Karu: like becoming part of an ocean of white light
Fael Illyar: Interesting, I've been testing something like that during my own meditation.
Hariharan Karu: :)
Pia Iger: oh?
Pia Iger: what is your vision, Fael?
Fael Illyar: nothing specific. I'm not sure if it can be called a vision even. Just a faint idea of being one with everything.
Fael Illyar: I tend to test all kinds of things that pop into my head while meditating :)
Faenik loves wells!
Pia Iger: do you open eyes or close them?
Hariharan Karu: :)
Fael Illyar: I tend to meditate eyes closed. Although I did do it eyes open a few times too.
Hariharan Karu: like meditating while you do things
Hariharan Karu: meditating while driving, cooking, working :)
Fael Illyar: What I started with was a description of Zen meditation.
Fael Illyar: Ah, yes, I did try meditating while washing dishes a couple of days ago :)
Hariharan Karu: :)
Fael Illyar: have to be careful to not throw out what you need to keep to get the work done :)
Pia Iger: :)
Hariharan Karu: you would be surprised how little you really need
Pia Iger: I been reading Tibetan buddhism, they have eyes open.
Pia Iger: but it's easier for me to concentrate by closing eyes.
Hariharan Karu: concentration can also be the distraction :)
Hariharan Karu: in some cases can create a barrier between ones self and what they wish to achieve
Pia Iger: then, concentration is not right word, more like 'being calm or open"
Hariharan Karu: flows easier :)
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, I tend to just be ... hard to describe in a way that won't mislead :)
Pia Iger: maybe I ususally have troubled mind, so I feel I need to cool down a bit to do meditation.
Pia Iger: If I just let to be, my mind will go wild:)
Fael Illyar: as long as you let the thoughts go without clinging to them, that doesn't matter :)
Hariharan Karu: :)
Faenik: ah :)
Pia Iger: guess so. they were saying to treat the thoughts 'gentlely".
Faenik: why not?
Fael Illyar: look at each one and then let it fade :)
Fael Illyar: oh that came out a bit wrong. For each one, look at it and then let it fade.

Hariharan shares another technique.

Hariharan Karu: :)
Hariharan Karu: i heard of another technique
Hariharan Karu: associating a word that only you know with the feeling of silence
Hariharan Karu: so when you meditate and are clear of thoughts
Hariharan Karu: repeate that word a few times
Hariharan Karu: so the next time your mind is wild, when you say that word, your mind clears
Pia Iger: interesting.
Fael Illyar: I think I'm sort of using that but I don't use a word, I go directly to the feeling and think about that.
Hariharan Karu: :)
Fael Illyar: but I've found many people can't tell words and their meanings apart
Fael Illyar: or at the very least understand what I'm talking about when I mention that :)
Hariharan Karu: :)
Pia Iger: like the word "silence"
Faenik: could be
Pia Iger: they will associate the word directly to the feeling?

I explain how I learn new languages.

Fael Illyar: Yes, mostly when I've tried to tell people how I learn new languages.
Fael Illyar: I don't bother learning which words match which in my language and the new one.
Fael Illyar: I simply associate the new word with a meaning of it's own
Fael Illyar: many people have trouble understanding me when I explain this
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pia Iger: I know what you mean.
Hariharan Karu: nods
Hariharan Karu: or a string of words with a meaning or feeling?
Fael Illyar: a string of words is really no different.
Hariharan Karu: or memories of when you were being taught, those words and how you felt when you were being taught
Fael Illyar: I do remember how or when I learned the word for a quite a few words of Japanese. Not for English though.
Pia Iger: Isn't English more direct for you?
Fael Illyar: Not really, I always go straight for direct.
Fael Illyar: I'm slower putting my thoughts into Japanese than into English but I wouldn't call either less direct.
Fael Illyar: with English and Finnish (my native language) I'm not aware of any speed difference.
Fael Illyar: Or if there is, I wouldn't be completely surprised if I was faster with English.
Pia Iger: how long have you been using English?
Fael Illyar: I think it's been 17 year since I started learning English.
Hariharan Karu: i need to be away for a few mins, phone
Fael Illyar: it creeped in both actively and passively.
Fael Illyar: actively at school, passively from watching television.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Pia Iger: but your written English is very good too.
Fael Illyar: I've had people tell me I've got a slight accent but one that doesn't reveal where I'm from.
Fael Illyar: or cause problems understanding me
Pia Iger: Americans have accents too, like new york accent, florida accent
Fael Illyar: Yes, it's possible my accent is a mix of all those
Pia Iger: hahha

Then Pia has to go. Quickly followed by Stranger as well.

Pia Iger: I need to go now. good talking with you all.
Faenik: なるほど^^
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Pia :)
Stranger Nightfire: goodbye Pia
Fael Illyar: Well, all other regular members besides me have left. Do you have anything you'd like to talk about?
Stranger Nightfire: I am actually about to have to leave myself
Fael Illyar: Ah, ok, See you later, Stranger :)
Hariharan Karu: im back now :)
Hariharan Karu: oh everyone leaving?
Fael Illyar: Pretty much, yes
Stranger Nightfire: good seeing your agian, and good to meet Hariharan
Hariharan Karu: :)
Hariharan Karu: good to meet you too Stranger :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, good seeing you again too :)
Stranger Nightfire: goodbye, have a good day
Hariharan Karu: be well :)

With this, Stranger disappeared.

Fael Illyar: Were you left with anything you wanted to ask?
Hariharan Karu: i cant really think of anything :)
Hariharan Karu: hehe i just saw steam come out of the bears mouth
Fael Illyar: Somehow more peaceful meeting than usual but at the same time somehow less peaceful :)
Hariharan Karu: :)
Fael Illyar: do you think you'll try doing the explorations?
Faenik: indeed?
Hariharan Karu: this is the first place i have really settled down in
Hariharan Karu: i will try :)
Fael Illyar: PaB?
Hariharan Karu: here and the other place
Fael Illyar: Ah, Hikari as well :)
Hariharan Karu: its the first time i have sat down in a group
Fael Illyar: Was the first group for me too :)
Hariharan Karu: :)
Fael Illyar: well, that has meetings

Then I tried to put into words what I thought was a problem at the beginning of the meeting. Unfortunately, I am still confused myself about what it was exactly.

Fael Illyar: I'll have to talk with Delani about not trying to force conversation started. That doesn't really work well.
Hariharan Karu: hehe
Hariharan Karu: mind freezes
Faenik: could be

More failed attempts at describing it... The only thing I can put to words is that you shouldn't feel like you have to make some conversation happen. If we're silent for long enough, someone will start a conversation that moves forward even without someone having to push all the time.

Fael Illyar: at first it felt like Delani was the only one wanting to talk.
Fael Illyar: or actually not exactly right but anyway :)
Hariharan Karu: :)
Hariharan Karu: im not usually the best at starting conversations
Fael Illyar: I think no-one in today's group was.
Hariharan Karu: i like to add pieces when i find something i can relate to :)
Fael Illyar: We were missing those who tend to do it naturally.
Fael Illyar: Well, I'm slowly learning :)
Fael Illyar: Took me half an hour to figure out to ask about your meditation :)
Fael Illyar: That's what got things started I think.
Hariharan Karu: :)
Hariharan Karu: i forgot to ask, what forms of meditation do you do?
Fael Illyar: I started with some guidance for Zen meditation from Moon and some others but I'm exploring things myself and as such I don't really know names.
Hariharan Karu: :)
Fael Illyar: it's been a month since I started.
Hariharan Karu: to me, all is one big meditation :)
Fael Illyar: Although I've been finding I've been doing a lot of meditation like things in the past.
Fael Illyar: without knowing they're close to it
Fael Illyar: but nothing regular
Hariharan Karu: :)

Then I relate my feelings when I'm advising people about meditation.

Fael Illyar: so it kind of feels strange advicing people with meditation being perhaps a beginner myself.
Hariharan Karu: everyone is constantly learning, even teachers
Fael Illyar: Usually I've been doing that with others with more meditation experience listening though.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: no corrections so far.
Hariharan Karu: :)
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Fael Illyar: Play as Being group has a bit of land around here. Would you like to see some of it?
Hariharan Karu: yes please :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, follow me :)

After this I showed Hariharan what kind of places Play as Being has in addition to the pavilion. However, that part doesn't really make much sense to include here. I didn't take any snapshots.