2008.07.09 13:00 - Material and Non-Material

The Guardian for this meeting was Fael Illyar. The comments are Fael's.

I was waiting at the pavilion for others to arrive and today, first one was Quilty, quickly followed by Moon.

Fael Illyar: Hi Quilty :)
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Fael
Quilty Bookmite: Are you guardian tonight?
Fael Illyar: rehi Moon :)
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Moon.
Moon Fargis: hi quilty
Fael Illyar: Perhaps :P
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Moon Fargis: ups, i had my draw distancce still set to 512
Fael Illyar: That doesn't work well here?
Moon Fargis: not with this slow network:)
Fael Illyar: :)

Quilty makes a mention of being tired and explains why.

Quilty Bookmite: I'm a bit worn out tonight so I may be a bit quiet.
Quilty Bookmite: I spent ages getting my daughter to sleep.
Moon Fargis: oh
Quilty Bookmite: I think she has another tooth coming.
Moon Fargis: ahyes hat hurts
Quilty Bookmite: Not fun for any of us. :-)
Fael Illyar: Hi Adams :)
Moon Fargis: that
Quilty Bookmite: Hi Adams
Adams Rubble: Hello Everybody :)
Fael Illyar: Yes, a child with tooth coming sounds quite tiring.
Quilty Bookmite: Took an hour and a half to get her to sleep.
Moon Fargis: oh
Quilty Bookmite: Poor thing.
Moon Fargis: hi adams
Quilty Bookmite: I think I'll have some tea. :-)
Faenik: why not?
Quilty Bookmite: It might wake up my virtual self if not my real self. :-)

Quilty wonders about SL's strange features... or you could call them bugs too. :)

Quilty Bookmite: Amazing how I can type with a cup of tea in my hand. :-)
Fael Illyar: hehe :)
Moon Fargis: :) same here wit some food
: Drop Watermelon Chunk from your inventory on you too ~~ enjoy!
Quilty Bookmite: Does anyone haave something to discuss?
Quilty Bookmite: We'll sit and drink then. :-)
Moon Fargis: ok:)
Fael Illyar: Well, I guess there are a few topics. I was hoping for someone else to bring up one today though :)
Fael Illyar: umm... this time
Quilty Bookmite: I think I'm a bit too tired to think of one. :-)
Fael Illyar: I've been reading this site http://pathwaytohappiness.com/
Faenik: ah :)
Fael Illyar: So far I think the writer knows what he's writing about :)
Fael Illyar: the focus seems to be on how to get people out of traps they've built for themselves.
Moon Fargis: oh alot of stuff to read
Quilty Bookmite: It does look a little like all the self-help books that are on the market these days...
Quilty Bookmite: But I may be doing it an injustice.
Fael Illyar is just reading an article where the writer is telling why self help is often a bad idea.
Quilty Bookmite: I see that now. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I feel that for me one of the keys to happiness is to stop clinging on to materialistic things.
Quilty Bookmite: I haven't mastered it yet. :-)
Fael Illyar: The only one who can see what's in the way is yourself :)
Quilty Bookmite: Well most of the time I am very happy with what I have.
Fael Illyar: I think the writings in this page could help with that.
Faenik: could be
Quilty Bookmite: Thank you. I will have a good read of it.
Quilty Bookmite: Do you feel happy most of the time Fael?
Quilty Bookmite: Or anyone for that matter.
Fael Illyar: Yes, I think I do.

I share a little glimpse of my past ... I think I don't do this very often.

Fael Illyar: Which is quite an improvement over ... well, just a year ago I suppose.
Quilty Bookmite: Good. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: I think when I started meditating I felt the benefit almost immediately in terms of my own happiness.
Quilty Bookmite: I had a lot of self-esteem problems.
Fael Illyar: Yes, I agree with that :)
Fael Illyar: huge effect
Quilty Bookmite: As my self-esteem improved so did my quality of life, in really quite startling ways.
Fael Illyar: I'm not sure if it was self-esteem that changed for me but some of it probably is that too.
Quilty Bookmite: Yes, the self-esteem was my own particular problem.
Quilty Bookmite: That is much less than it was. Now materialism is probably a bigger issue.
Quilty Bookmite: But when I take a good look at what I do have, it would be difficult to be too unhappy about it.
Faenik: could be

Conversation moves to media and advertisement.

Adams Rubble: We are bombarded by media to always want more
Fael Illyar: Do make sure you don't think getting rid of materialism means stopping getting material things.
Fael Illyar: Oh right, media, I don't watch television :P
Quilty Bookmite: I'm sure even you are exposed to it though Fael. :-)
Fael Illyar: Yes, I am, just quite a bit less.
Adams Rubble is loooking at the signs and thinking ads are even creeping into the pavilion
Quilty Bookmite: It's hard to avoid the billboard, the magazine adverts etc.
Quilty Bookmite: I noticed those the other day. Can't see them from where I'm sitting.
Fael Illyar: I do look at ads but they don't cause me to want things... well, they rarely do.
Adams Rubble: In some cases they have a risidual effect...others get things and you see them with them
Quilty Bookmite: I find adverts far too transparent to affect me. :-)
Adams Rubble: all the new technical gadgets
Moon Fargis: heh what a strange im session i got now, someone wanted to buy a lamp from me with extra copy and mod rights, and didnt understood why i rised the price from 30 to 100 for this extra rights.
Moon Fargis: (sorry to interrupt)
Adams Rubble: hehe
Quilty Bookmite: :-)
Adams Rubble: Unfortunately I must go. Bye everyone :)
Fael Illyar: I tend to look at what I will gain by getting a new gadget.
Quilty Bookmite: Bye Adams
Fael Illyar: Ok, see you later Adams :)

Adams has to leave after 30 minutes, as usual. The conversation goes on about prices and buying.

Quilty Bookmite: A monk once gave me good advice about gadgets...
Fael Illyar: Then compare what I get to the price.
Quilty Bookmite: He said if you see something in the shop that you really want...
Fael Illyar: if it's replacing another gadget, I look at the diference between them
Quilty Bookmite: Wait a week before you buy it and see if you still want it.
Fael Illyar: Yes, that works for dispelling whims
Fael Illyar: ... actually, I do that
Quilty Bookmite: I have used it on occasion. :-)
Fael Illyar: when I decide to get something, I often spend a week just looking at alternatives
Fael Illyar: especially for expensive things
Quilty Bookmite: I often face situations where someone offers me a bargain if I buy something on the spot. It's a popular sales technique.
Quilty Bookmite: It tends to have the opposite effect on me. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: Impulse buying. :-)
Fael Illyar: I use those only if I happen to have reasonably good knowledge of the product and alternatives :P
Fael Illyar: and the bargain price is actually good one according to my information.
Fael Illyar: If I don't know what I'd be getting for it, I don't buy.
Quilty Bookmite: Sounds like a good plan. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: We seem to be entering a period of global recession...
Quilty Bookmite: People are having to think more carefully about what they buy.
Fael Illyar: even if it's 400 EUR device for 200 EUR, I don't buy unless I know what use it'd have for me.
Fael Illyar: it'd have to be really worth the 200 EUR to me :)
Quilty Bookmite: It's a terrible thing for people in the developing world who suddenly can;t afford food, but I think it is a useful wake-up call for us in the west.

We also touch on the impending financial and resource shortages the world is starting to face.

Fael Illyar: peak oil tends to do things like that
Fael Illyar: Not to mention all the other things ...
Quilty Bookmite: Yes. It seems to be a combination of many things.
Fael Illyar: http://www.chrismartenson.com/crashcourse
Quilty Bookmite: Useful. :-)
Fael Illyar: I found those quite good watch :)
Fael Illyar: although, they definitely don't paint a pretty picture.
Quilty Bookmite: Probably reflects the times. :-)
Fael Illyar: Very much so
Quilty Bookmite: I see the most recently added section is on bubbles. :-)
Faenik: why not?
Quilty Bookmite: Bubbles always happen and they always burst but people always think it isn't going to happen.
Quilty Bookmite: I guess that's getting off the subject though. :-)
Fael Illyar: Yes, that seems to be human nature
Fael Illyar: it's just that there might be a very big bubble about to burst.
Quilty Bookmite: It certainly looks that way.
Fael Illyar: bigger than any other bubble in history
Quilty Bookmite: I'm not sure about that.
Fael Illyar: astronomically bigger
Quilty Bookmite: The great depression of the 30s is hard to beat.
Faenik: why not?
Fael Illyar: watch the videos when you've got time. I'd be interested if you still think that.
Quilty Bookmite: OK. :-)
Quilty Bookmite: It's a quiet evening. Last time I was here there were lots of people.
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: Yes, the ebbs and flows :)
Quilty Bookmite: And I think Moon has his attention elsewhere. :-)
Moon Fargis: and i didnt even talked since the last 5 minutes:)
Moon Fargis: what happed.. this im session gets complicated
Quilty Bookmite: Of course. :-)
Fael Illyar: it happens :)
Quilty Bookmite: yay! ;-)
Fael Illyar: Anyway, from those videos it looks like USA will have the hardest time but ... it really will be global.
Quilty Bookmite: the world economies are inextricably linked now. If the USA goes down we all do.
Quilty Bookmite: One of the perils of globalisation.
Fael Illyar: Yes, it's a period of radical change.
Fael Illyar: remains to be seen when it'll really start.
Quilty Bookmite: The thing is, i don't think the period of wealth we have just been through has made people happier in general...
Quilty Bookmite: But the recession we are about to enter will definitely make people less happy.
Fael Illyar: No, since happiness isn't material.
Quilty Bookmite: All i can do is sit and meditate.
Fael Illyar: Well, as long as your basic needs are fulfilled
Faenik: could be
Quilty Bookmite: They seem to be for the moment. :-)
Fael Illyar: mine too.
Quilty Bookmite: I think I must go and see to my non-material needs - like sleep. :-)
Fael Illyar: Ok, good night :)
Quilty Bookmite: It's been a pleasure as always.
Quilty Bookmite: Good night both of you.
Moon Fargis: good night quilty

Quilty leaves to fulfill a non-material need, sleeping.

Fael Illyar: Well, that's it I guess :) I tend to have silent conversations with you so ... :P
Moon Fargis: hehe
Moon Fargis: you can talk i sopped tis im saneness now
Fael Illyar: No, I meant in general :)
Moon Fargis: ehm shall that mean im quiet?:)
Fael Illyar: No, we both are :)
Moon Fargis: ok then letch change this
Moon Fargis: Day-o, me say daaay-o~
Moon Fargis: Chocolate Disco 笙ｪ
Moon Fargis: Chocolate Disco 笙ｪ
Moon Fargis meows "Meow Meow Meow Meow"
Fael Illyar: ... not quite what I had in mind :P
Moon Fargis: ah hmm ok :)
Faenik: could be
Fael Illyar: Although, it was mostly just a statement of fact. Not criticism :)
Moon Fargis: i know dont worry:)
Fael Illyar: I sometimes sort of feel like I want to talk about something but no idea about what so I don't :P
Moon Fargis: hehe yes i know that feeling:)
Fael Illyar: I could try ask things about Being ... but that feels just ... umm ... pointless :P
Moon Fargis: now you understand the sentence i told you before "a talk between two zen masters can be verrry quiet" ;)
Fael Illyar: Yes, think I've understood it for a while.
Moon Fargis: ^.^
Moon Fargis: ok ill head back to hikari and relax a bit :)
Fael Illyar: Ok, let's end the meeting here :)
Moon Fargis: :)
Moon Fargis: see you:)