2008.07.21 13:00 - Natural Rest

That afternoon, Stim was the guardian. He later sent me the chat log. The title is his, and he did not include comments.

Caledonia Heron: excuse me :) so sorry, landed right on top of you
Stim Morane: Hi Cal!
Caledonia Heron: hi Stim :)
Caledonia Heron: getting situated :)
Caledonia Heron: how are you?
Stim Morane: OK, busy, the usual …
Stim Morane: And you?
Caledonia Heron: good :) I’ve been out of town for a wile so a little bit of catch up
Caledonia Heron: *while
Stim Morane: So have you attended many of these meetings lately?
Caledonia Heron: I haven’t really had a worthy connection the last week - I did squeak in my Wed session but alas, that was it
Caledonia Heron: it’s kind of cool to not have Internet once in a while
Stim Morane: Yes, I agree.
Stim Morane: Although I expect many people would feel otherwise
Caledonia Heron: lol, yes…how did we manage before ?? swimmingly no doubt :)
Stim Morane: Welcome
Adelene Dawner: hello :)
Caledonia Heron: hi Adelene :)
Caledonia Heron: hi Threedee
Stim Morane: You are certainly the most colorful being I’ve seen here in a while
Adelene Dawner chuckles.
Caledonia Heron: :) very exotic
Threedee Shepherd: hello, I can be a different AV-form if that is more polite
Stim Morane: No, not at all.
Caledonia Heron: no I like your av very much
Stim Morane: Please enjoy your present shape. I wish we had a better surface for you to sit on.
Caledonia Heron: we are just settling in to a discussion
Storm Nordwind is Offline
Caledonia Heron: Stim and I are getting to know each other - we are part of the play as being discussion group - perhaps you have been to it before ?
Adelene Dawner: I was at the last one - I happened to show up just as it was starting, in my explorations.
Stim Morane: And you, Threedee? Have you attended one of these sessions before?
Threedee Shepherd: and I am an explorer of the *topic* although not here before.
Caledonia Heron: great :)
Threedee Shepherd: I have looked at a description on the web
Stim Morane: It’s a rather elusive topic.
Threedee Shepherd: true, thus an endless source of meetings :)
Stim Morane: I don’t find it easy to describe without a fair amount of discussion.
Stim Morane: And I’m too lazy for the latter …
Caledonia Heron: LOL ,… yes Threedee
Stim Morane: Is there any aspect of it that seems easy and interesting to raise now?
Threedee Shepherd: dI would rather listren, and talk, than talk ABOUT
Caledonia Heron: if I may?
Stim Morane: Please
Caledonia Heron: I thought I would tell a little story about something that happened a couple of days ago
Caledonia Heron: I spent the last week lounging at the seashore
Caledonia Heron: I was sitting back at the beach, eyes closed, not really thinking about anything really
Caledonia Heron: I was listening to the waves, big loud crashing waves
Caledonia Heron: over, and over and over
Caledonia Heron: for how long I don’t really know - it could have been quite a while
Caledonia Heron: it was like it was floating on the sound of it
Caledonia Heron: not really thinking of anything I suppose
Caledonia Heron: then all of a sudden I realized I wasn’t thinking of anything and it was …poof….back to normal, talking to my friends
Caledonia Heron: what was that?
Stim Morane: what do you think?
Caledonia Heron: other?
Caledonia Heron: not dream
Caledonia Heron: not sleep
Caledonia Heron: not present
Caledonia Heron: somewhere else
Caledonia Heron: it was nowhere
Stim Morane: or maybe just more Here
Caledonia Heron: I wondered that
Stim Morane: did it seem unusual?
Caledonia Heron: it had a very here and not here kind of feel
Stim Morane: Yes
Caledonia Heron: not while it was happening
Stim Morane: Yes. That suggests it’s natural rather than exotic
Caledonia Heron: and when I broke the silence it seemed pretty natural
Threedee Shepherd: while it was happening, *IT* was
Caledonia Heron: but after I thought of it moments later I wondered, what the heck was that?
Caledonia Heron: lovely really
Stim Morane: Hi Gaya
Caledonia Heron: hi Gaya
Adelene Dawner: ‘lo
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ with metta
Threedee Shepherd: hello
Stim Morane: So are you headed back to the beach, Cal?
Caledonia Heron: lol, in my mind :)
Caledonia Heron: I have been to Mexico and the Eastern Shore within 3 weeks of each other, think my husband will insist on the mountains next :)
Stim Morane: a natural setting can invite a natural presence
Caledonia Heron: yes, I agree
Stim Morane: but habits usually override quickly
Stim Morane: we are a bundle of habits, of mind, body, perception, etc
Stim Morane: but these habits are not necessarily grounded in our more fundamental nature
Caledonia Heron: maybe the continued 9sec is a prompt for a special kind of habit :)
Stim Morane: Anyway, a nice example of encountering one’s self more directly
Caledonia Heron: yes, indeed, very enjoyable
Stim Morane: the 9 second format, and I think it is just a format, can help “come back”.
Stim Morane: But as you say, it could just be appropriated within our usual complex of habits.
Threedee Shepherd: those habit not being “greounded” in our fundamental nature, nonetheless are attached to it in some way.
Caledonia Heron: strange and interesting that during the event there was no noticing of enjoyment or feeling…..it was only when the mind kickstarted again that the analysis was available
Stim Morane: yes, Threedee … although they may resist, too. Just like a little kid who says she doesn’t want to go to bed.
Stim Morane: Cal, I think natural contentment is subtle and not accompanied with any fanfare
Caledonia Heron: I would agree Stim — have you had an experience similar in nature?
Stim Morane: sure
Stim Morane: the point of contemplative training is to find what was essential in your experience, without the dependency on special circumstances.
Stim Morane: But the context does help.
Gaya Ethaniel: /wonders how she can reduce the sound of hanging charms
Caledonia Heron: what do you mean by the phrase “essential in your experience”
Caledonia Heron: ?
Stim Morane: Oh, do you know, Cal? I have no tech expertise here.
Windchime Bronze 12: Adelene Dawner picked the option ‘Volume’.
Windchime Bronze 12: Adelene Dawner picked the option ‘20%’.
Adelene Dawner: fix’d
Gaya Ethaniel: Thanks Adel
Caledonia Heron: you should manipulate the sound controls to the right of the movie icon Gaya
Caledonia Heron: :) that was easy ….thx Adelene :)
Adelene Dawner: I have ‘em muted in my client, myself. They’re too disharmonious, too my ears.
Stim Morane: Thanks. I will need to learn this sort of thing too.
Caledonia Heron: yeah, jangly
Stim Morane: By “essential in your experience”, I meant that even what you can remember about the natural peace you describe may not be its essence.
Adelene Dawner: Stim - just click on ‘em and follow the prompts.
Caledonia Heron: yes, understood
Stim Morane: I see. Thanks.
Caledonia Heron: I have been probing it a bit like an alien with a corn fed farmer :)
Stim Morane: There is a profound and sneaky distortion in memory.
Caledonia Heron: I think contentment is a good place to start…..content was a present state
Adelene Dawner needs to afk, and will brb.
Stim Morane: contentment is different from a hyped up pleasure.
Caledonia Heron: yes
Adelene Dawner is back.
Stim Morane: I just used that word as a way of guessing what you were reporting.
Caledonia Heron: it fits as does at rest
Caledonia Heron: I had no agenda, no needs, no wants, just sitting there
Stim Morane: And I think both contentment and “rest”, natural rest, are related to the subject of this PaB orientation
Caledonia Heron: yes, my thought also and why I brought the story
Stim Morane: Yes, my “getting back to the beach” joke was intended as a comment on the way we try to make natural rest be an object of acquisition
Stim Morane: and of wishing, grasping
Stim Morane: Anyway, thanks. Great story!
Caledonia Heron: sure - like you have to “go somewhere” to do it
Caledonia Heron: or “do something”
Stim Morane: Yes, that is exactly the way the ordinary grasping mind reaches for and misses what’s most important about us
Caledonia Heron: some of the richest things I’ve experienced come when I’m not really paying attention so much
Caledonia Heron: hilarious really
Stim Morane: it’s all instructive, as well as a bit sad
Stim Morane: and funny too
Caledonia Heron: how so?
Stim Morane: there is no way we can find our more fundamental nature, without taking advantage of our mistakes
Stim Morane: they are our guide
Caledonia Heron: perhaps
Stim Morane: you have a different view?
Caledonia Heron: it is a corporate knowledge of sorts
Gaya Ethaniel: there is something i feel/have inside that guides me which is not mistakes i’ve made
Caledonia Heron: I don’t it sad
Stim Morane: Yes, Gaya. I didn’t mean to suggest that our mistakes were our only guid.
Stim Morane: *guide
Caledonia Heron: *I don’t find it sad
Gaya Ethaniel: one of the guides would help Stim :)
Caledonia Heron: hi Fael :)
Fael Illyar: Hi Everyone
Stim Morane: But if we don’t appreciate what mistakes mistake, then we are disavailing ourselves of an important aid.
Adelene Dawner: ‘lo
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ with metta
Stim Morane: Hi Fael!
Threedee Shepherd: hi
Caledonia Heron: surely, mistakes are valuable - I think that is accurate
Stim Morane: Yes
Stim Morane: They point away from our fundamental nature’s presence.
Threedee Shepherd: Stim, sort of on the topic, although we can put it off: If I may jump-in to the deep end: When I said before ” those (distracting) habits not being “greounded” in our fundamental nature, nonetheless are attached to it in some way.” I wanted to go here. In the spirit of “bend not break” is there a way to approach those habitsd to reincorporate some aspect of them, rather than trying to transcend them to get at a/the fundamental nature?
Stim Morane: But in doing so, we can trace back to what is being obscured.
Stim Morane: WHat is your own view, Threedee?
Caledonia Heron: ok, I will consider that Stim
Threedee Shepherd: It is ALL the me at this moment and must be treated with respect.
Stim Morane: Yes. Of course.
Stim Morane: If I suggested that mistakes were only mistakes, I would certainly be wrong.
Stim Morane: Perhaps they could be seen as simply “not quite focused yet”.
Stim Morane: like children
Stim Morane: anyway, I don’t want to harp on this particular subject.
Stim Morane: But I’m sure we’re all happy to explore your larger point more, Threedee
Threedee Shepherd: Another way (a friend of mine put it) is that a habit serves a purpose (however inaccurately) and thus simply eradicating it leaves the purpose dangling even more.
Caledonia Heron: I am wondering if we are being who we are can we really be too far from a fundamental presence?
Caledonia Heron: mistakes and all
Stim Morane: we cannot be any distance from it.
Stim Morane: But we can look away.
Caledonia Heron: lol, exactly!!!
Caledonia Heron: ahh, the look away :)
Stim Morane: This is our freedom.
Faenik is a hairy black ball with eyes and ears.
Stim Morane: ANd even that freedom serves to help us clarify what is most important.
Caledonia Heron: agreed
Gaya Ethaniel: excuse me need to go
Gaya Ethaniel: _/!\_ with metta
Caledonia Heron: bye Gaya :)
Stim Morane: Getting back to your comment, Threedee, if we have a small understanding of our real nature, then what seems (!) to obscure it can help us see it more fully.
Threedee Shepherd: bye
Stim Morane: Oops, be Gaya
Threedee Shepherd: perhaps a different word than “obscure”
Stim Morane: Fael, how have you been lately?
Stim Morane: Threedee, any suggestions?
Fael Illyar: I suppose I’ve been … advancing but not advancing I guess :P
Caledonia Heron: always in motion Fael :)
Threedee Shepherd: I think of a stream flowing towards a iver, temporarily diverted onto a less useful path to it, but nonetheless on the journey.
Threedee Shepherd: *river
Stim Morane: Yes.
Fael Illyar is not at home right now and is trying to get the viewer settings set so that this works.
Stim Morane: My point was that it’s only a matter of “seeming” to obscure something. The real nature is not obscured in fact.
Caledonia Heron: lol, maybe there isn’t even any real nature
Threedee Shepherd: and perhaps the *thing* seeming to obscure is truly a part or, flows from the real nature
Stim Morane: There is only that nature.
Stim Morane: Anyway, I didn’t mean to get so coy here. Sorry. What can we discuss in a more concrete vein?
Caledonia Heron: not coy at all :)
Adelene Dawner: … why do you keep trying to change the subject, Stim?
Stim Morane: I’m not sure what the subject should be in this forum.
Adelene Dawner: ’should’?
Stim Morane: Yes, I used that word deliberately.
Caledonia Heron: everything we’ve mentioned seems on point to me :)
Stim Morane: Some things are more easily discussed well in one context than another.
Stim Morane: OK.
Caledonia Heron: yes and I am threading through your vacabulary a bit Stim :)
Caledonia Heron: *vocabulary
Adelene Dawner: ’should’ is never as realevant as ‘is’.
Caledonia Heron: while trying to be on my best spelling behavior :)
Stim Morane: Adelene, I understand. Just checking to make sure everyone here is OK with “the topic”.
Caledonia Heron: very considerate :)
Caledonia Heron: do you practice 9sec exercise (everyone?) …how is that going?
Adelene Dawner: well, here, for my first day.
Caledonia Heron: ah, ok :)
Threedee Shepherd: explain, please
Stim Morane: Cal? Could you do the honors?
Caledonia Heron: gosh, ok ….you can read at playasbeing.wordpress.com or playasbeing.wik.is for info
Threedee Shepherd: reading
Caledonia Heron: in a nutshell, the experiment is to take 9 sec at 15 min intervals to relax, focus/unfocus, and see what appears
Caledonia Heron: or doesn’t
Stim Morane: Hi Kristali
Stim Morane: Welcome
Caledonia Heron: a way to tap into who you “be” , what is your “being”
Kristali Klaar: hello
Caledonia Heron: how you “be”
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: New Note
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:19] Adelene Dawner sighs. “I’m having trouble with the web page - it’s on my end. Could you give me a more consise description, Pema?”
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:20] Adelene Dawner: *concise. (Not too good with the spelling today, either >.< )
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:20] Pema Pera: oh sure, I’d be happy to
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:20] Pema Pera: The idea is simple
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:20] Pema Pera: for a few hours a day
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:20] Pema Pera: you pay 1% of your time in a kind of time tax
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:20] Pema Pera: 9 seconds each fifteen minutes
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:21] Pema Pera: During that time you stop what you’re doing, or at least drop your exclusive focus on it
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:21] Pema Pera: and instead you look at what is
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:21] Pema Pera: or what you are
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:21] Pema Pera: or at “I am”
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:21] Pema Pera: and one way to do that is to look at what you have
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:22] Pema Pera: we normally say “I am a plumber” instead of “I have the profession of plumber”
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:22] Pema Pera: we say “I am English” instead of “I have the English nationality”
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:22] Pema Pera: so if we try to rigorously scrutinize all that we have
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:22] Pema Pera: then we may see what is left over, as what we are
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:23] Pema Pera: temporarily shifting focus away from what we have
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:23] Adelene Dawner: Now *that* sounds interesting and useful.
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:23] Pema Pera: temporarily dropping the role play
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:23] Pema Pera: and the remaining 99% we can play all our roles as much as we like, in RL and SL both
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:23] Pema Pera: Here in SL we get together four times a day
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:24] Pema Pera: to talk about our experiences in RL in the four times an hour practice:
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:24] Pema Pera: 1 am 7 am 1 pm 7 pm SLT
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:24] Pema Pera: Thank you, glad to hear that!
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:24] Pema Pera: If you’d like to try it, you can start right here, just pick a 9-sec interval :-)
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:26] Adelene Dawner is not sure if a 9-second interval is appropriate to her rather nonstandard brain-function-mode (autistic, in this incarnation) but will find a good modification of the useful base premise.
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:27] Pema Pera: you may want to just play with it for a few days, and then if you like, you can share with us what happened
Avarian-Style Brain Necklace: [2008/07/21 7:27] Pema Pera: or what kind of questions you have about it
Caledonia Heron: well, there you have it - the brain necklace has spoken and I will desist :)
Caledonia Heron: hi Kristali
Kristali Klaar: hello, pleased to meet you
Japanese]: connection time out.
Caledonia Heron: people do what works for them
Adelene Dawner chuckles. “Sorry - a bit spammier than I was expecting.”
Caledonia Heron: on the suggested intervals or whenever
Threedee Shepherd: thanks
Caledonia Heron: I got a bit thrown off by the messages but I think you can gather the gist of it
Threedee Shepherd: I did and also from the FAQ
Caledonia Heron: ok
Stim Morane: Sorry , I was experiencing a system problem for a while.
Caledonia Heron: probably the brain necklace :)
Stim Morane: Anyway, Thanks Cal and Adelene.
Caledonia Heron: one of the points is to make it an inquiry, to find a universal kind of way to relate the human experience
Stim Morane: Since people often don’t have time to spend an hour or more doing some traditional meditation method, the idea with the 9-second format Cal mentioned is to keep the mind open to facets of presence that might otherwise get crowded out by more pragmatic concerns.
Stim Morane: If we do it every 15 minutes, it keeps the mind from becoming too closed.
Stim Morane: This is actually quite like features of traditional practices, in fact.
Caledonia Heron: I thought it may be
Stim Morane: There are many such things built into a monastic regimen, for instance
Caledonia Heron: vocab question…please define traditional practices]
Stim Morane: meditation practices in one tradition or another. Zen, Therevada, etc all have characteristic practices.
Caledonia Heron: yes, just making sure :)
Stim Morane: Sure. Thanks.
Stim Morane: So far, Play as Being has only this rather simple one.
Caledonia Heron: your statement aligns with many comments from other traditional practitioners that frequent pab :)
Stim Morane: I suppose it will build and mutate over time.
Caledonia Heron: lol, sure
Stim Morane: Yes, I recall.
Caledonia Heron: I am on the light side of the boat, not a traditional practioner :)
Kristali Klaar: arent we all
Caledonia Heron: lol, fair enough
Kristali Klaar: what is the one true path?
Stim Morane: That may be ideal. And as Kristali just said, in the most important sense, we are all that way.
Caledonia Heron: surely rhetorical Kristali :)
Kristali Klaar: surely there are three :)
Caledonia Heron: not sure where to go with that, I don’t want to offend you :)
Kristali Klaar: nods
Caledonia Heron: guess that’s my cue :)
Caledonia Heron: thank you everyone - a lovely chat :)
Stim Morane: I will have to leave in a minute. Thank you all for dropping by.
Threedee Shepherd: thank you.I will come again
Stim Morane: Adelene and Threedee, I wish there was more time to explore some of the points you raised.
Stim Morane: Perhaps in another session …
Adelene Dawner: :)
Threedee Shepherd: yes, another session
Kristali Klaar: hopefully i can join in at the beginning of a discussion?
Stim Morane: Good. And thank you from dropping in, Kristali. You are certainly welcome to join at the beginning as well as the middle etc.