2009.01.02 01:00 – Bush tucker, cobber

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    Gaya filled in for Wol and comments are hers. Pema arrives soon after.

    Pema Pera: Hi Gaya!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pema :)
    Pema Pera: Happy New Year
    Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you. Happy New Year
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you today?
    Pema Pera: Fine! Enjoying the quiet time of year
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: Winter has its own qualities of rest and reflection
    Pema Pera: And you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well thank you. It has been bitterly cold here
    Pema Pera: in London?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Yes for a few days
    Pema Pera: that's unusual
    Gaya Ethaniel: I like it that way, clear crisp cold days

    Tarmel joins us and shares her family stories.

    Pema Pera: Hi Tarmel!
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :)
    Tarmel Udimo: hi there
    Gaya Ethaniel: How are you?
    Tarmel Udimo: I'm good
    Tarmel Udimo: I just had a visit from my step kids
    Pema Pera: did you have a good time?
    Tarmel Udimo: yes it was lovely - we exchanged christmas presents and had a late lunch
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: they are half indigneous
    Tarmel Udimo: how about both of you - how are you?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Well thank you
    Pema Pera: I am completely indigineous (in Holland, that is)
    Pema Pera: and I'm fine too :)
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Tarmel Udimo: thanks gaya
    Gaya Ethaniel: Same if in Korea :) Thanks Tarmel
    Pema Pera: I got doubly exported, first to the US then from there to Japan -- but by my own choice
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Pema Pera: the story of idiginous peoples is really horrific
    Pema Pera: anywhere, in the US, in Japan, in Australia
    Pema Pera: Indians, Ainu, etc
    Tarmel Udimo: yes
    Pema Pera: Tibetans too
    Tarmel Udimo: and yet there is a strength there
    Tarmel Udimo: my kids are so grounded and somehow manage to live in both worlds
    Pema Pera: that's quite an accomplishment!
    Tarmel Udimo: they come from a very traditional part of australia
    Tarmel Udimo: so still have their language and their culture
    Tarmel Udimo: their dad is english and they are proud of that too
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: I often joke with their dad that in this lifetime he had the kids - I have
    Tarmel Udimo: only known them for about 5 years
    Pema Pera: miraculous birth for you! :-)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: yes absolutely
    Pema Pera: as for their culture, how do you live that, how do they relate to that?
    Tarmel Udimo: well when they go 'home' for holidays they go back to a small remote community
    Tarmel Udimo: that still preserve the traditional ways
    Gaya Ethaniel: ah... wow
    Tarmel Udimo: humm its been fascinating and of course they have been horrible teenagers too
    Pema Pera: :-)
    Pema Pera: those traditional ways, how do they deal with those -- does it involve particular training?
    Pema Pera: or more a general life style?
    Gaya Ethaniel: I heard such life style is dying out because less young people are willing to live in that ways
    Tarmel Udimo: both - they boy has been initiated
    Tarmel Udimo: and they both know all the dances
    Tarmel Udimo: they hunt and fish and know bush tucker and how to live in what we call 'the bush'
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: they are quite unique
    Gaya Ethaniel: Must be :)
    Pema Pera: it must be great to follow them growing up, and finding ways to assimilate all that

    jayden joins us.

    Pema Pera: Hi Jayden
    Pema Pera: feel free to join us here!
    jayden Nayar: hi
    Gaya Ethaniel: Hello jayden
    Tarmel Udimo: yes espacially since I don't have kids of my own
    Pema Pera: Jayden, have you been here before?
    Gaya Ethaniel: Have they gone back now?
    jayden Nayar: not at all. actually i am a newbie to the whole 2nd life
    Pema Pera: welcome to our group!
    Pema Pera: and welcome to Second Life
    Pema Pera: We get together a few times a day to chat about the nature of reality, and everything else, and we have a wiki http://playasbeing.wik.is/ -- we record our conversations there. Do you mind being included in our blogs?
    jayden Nayar: thanks. would love to join in.
    Pema Pera: Thanks!
    Pema Pera: Is there anything in particular that you are looking for in Second Life?
    jayden Nayar: Actually just wondering why half my users at work spend time here . so what better way to find out ..
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: yeah, doing is better than speculating :)
    jayden Nayar: Sure is. And I actually think ideas like this will become the future of commerce etc. why not hold a meeting in second life 8-)
    Pema Pera: yes, I do it all the time with my colleagues, fellow astronomers
    Pema Pera: we started a kind of astronomy department in April, and it is doing quite well
    Pema Pera: Especially interesting are the interactions with many amateur astronomers who often are professionals in their own right of course, computer scientists for example
    Pema Pera: leading to interesting interdisciplinary collaborations
    jayden Nayar: It is actually very relaxing just sitting here. Like an out of body experience ..
    Pema Pera: http://www.mica-vw.org/ is the astro organization's web site
    Pema Pera: hehe, sure is!
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Tarmel Udimo: in fact I wonder what will become of us all?
    Pema Pera: and amazing to meet friends from far away: I'm in Japan now, Gaya in Europe, Tarmel in Australia
    Pema Pera wondering about Tarmel's wondering
    Tarmel Udimo: hummm
    jayden Nayar: I am in Australia too..
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles

    Yes G’day :) Now Tarmel’s wondering about her wondering…

    Tarmel Udimo: g'day mate! :-)
    Pema Pera: :)
    Tarmel Udimo: where are you?
    jayden Nayar: melb.
    Tarmel Udimo: okay fashion city....
    Tarmel Udimo: I'm in sydney
    jayden Nayar: unfortunately 8-( I like about 5 mins from chadstone ... which is the most useless shpping center for me ...
    jayden Nayar: moved from sydney about 7 yrs ago.. used to like around hurstville
    Gaya Ethaniel: Do you publish logs from MICA public disucssions somewhere?
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Tarmel Udimo: wondering about Tarmel's wondering - well
    Pema Pera: not normally no, Gaya
    Pema Pera: many of the discussions are in voice
    Tarmel Udimo: how far will SL go?
    Pema Pera: ah!
    Pema Pera: well . . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: and what will happen to us as we become closer and closer to our avatars
    Tarmel Udimo: laughing
    Pema Pera: I've been wondering about having a third life in here; all of us avatars sitting in our little houses in second life behind their computers, steering their once-removed avatars somewhere else . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: grins
    Tarmel Udimo: I'm looking forward to the day when one just plugs the brain in
    Pema Pera: that may not be enough . . .
    Tarmel Udimo: okay?
    Pema Pera: but I get the idea :-)
    Pema Pera: rest of the body may be needed too, I mean
    Tarmel Udimo: in what way?
    Pema Pera: oh, our consciousness may reside in more than just the brain
    Pema Pera: insofar as it resides anywhere at all
    Tarmel Udimo: agreed
    jayden Nayar: Would certainly make my life easier just to plug people in 8-) I could also plug my son in and give him a download of knowledge... that would be alright!
    Tarmel Udimo: yep
    Pema Pera: :)
    Pema Pera: So you have people working for you who spend a lot of time in SL, Jayden?
    Gaya Ethaniel shudders at the thought. I'll be dead before such time thank goodness
    Pema Pera: don't count on it, Gaya . . .

    I put that scary thought behind quickly and we move onto SL.

    Tarmel Udimo: what about you gaya are you a computer mad person?
    Pema Pera: as opposed to just plain mad ?
    jayden Nayar: This and facebook... My user community would be what you call knowledge workers and they use these tools all the time. How the world changed though .. I am 36 and I can remember using bullitin boards back when i was 12 or 13
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm not really... just infected by a geek [my husband]
    Tarmel Udimo: hahaha
    jayden Nayar: nothing wrong with being a geek .. we built the world 8-)
    Gaya Ethaniel: He wants to use SL more via MICA but doesn't get home early enough to make the meetings
    Gaya Ethaniel sighs... here we go
    Pema Pera: time differences are a real problem indeed
    Tarmel Udimo: 8-)
    Pema Pera: among my colleagues more than half of the people still haven't even heard of SL . . . .
    Pema Pera: even the younger ones
    Tarmel Udimo: knowledge workers?
    Pema Pera: rather odd
    Tarmel Udimo: yes that is?
    Pema Pera: odd -> younger ones (not knowledge workers, though many of them are odd too :)
    jayden Nayar: ok .. knowledge workers = nice way of saying public servants 8-)
    Tarmel Udimo: or like some of my freinds they know but would rather watch grass grow
    Tarmel Udimo: ahhh
    Pema Pera: not so different from rezzing, Tarmel
    Tarmel Udimo: okay...
    Gaya Ethaniel: I'm a bit surprised by that... I saw Michiko Kaku talking about SL a couple of times on TV already
    Pema Pera: he's not a "normal" colleague :)
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles. ah I see

    Then about FOI and PaB/Kira

    jayden Nayar: with all this though what we are struggling with in the government is the FOI legislation...
    Tarmel Udimo: FOI ?
    jayden Nayar: given all public records must be kept etc.. how can we turn a SL conversation and/or meeting into a public record
    Pema Pera: Fostering Odd Interests?
    jayden Nayar: FOI sorry - freedom of information act
    Tarmel Udimo: ahh yes
    Pema Pera: ah, that is what we are doing here, exactly, Jay
    jayden Nayar: basically u can request information about anything.... u could probably even request to see what is on my c: drive at work ...
    Pema Pera: did you catch that web site I flashed by? http://playasbeing.wik.is/
    Pema Pera: we have recorded more than a thousand sessions this being one of them :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: but that is a good point.. who do they belong to?
    Tarmel Udimo: the sessions?
    Pema Pera: belong to the world, I guess :-)
    Tarmel Udimo: do they?
    Pema Pera: they are public
    Pema Pera: our umbrella organization is the Kira Institute
    Tarmel Udimo: yes but they still 'belong' to the kira institute
    Pema Pera: http://www.kira.org/
    Pema Pera: I guess in that sense, but in practice we are a kind of open source group
    Pema Pera: fully democratic
    Pema Pera: a group of peers
    Gaya Ethaniel nods
    Tarmel Udimo: okay I understand that but it does rise and issue - what if
    Tarmel Udimo: eg... you end up being really
    Tarmel Udimo: famous pema and 50 yeras aftre your death someone decides that these words should be controled
    Pema Pera: good luck controling content on the internet :)
    Tarmel Udimo: would kira have any recourse
    Gaya Ethaniel smiles
    Pema Pera: what kind of recourse?
    Tarmel Udimo: well words can be used ideas can be used
    Gaya Ethaniel: Would you care Pema?
    Pema Pera: I hope our words and ideas will be used!
    Pema Pera: and I hope different people will do so in different ways
    Tarmel Udimo: okay
    Pema Pera: I see no way to exert control, nor would I want to
    Tarmel Udimo: I am play devils advocate here
    Pema Pera: I understand, and they are valid questions
    Pema Pera: wikipedia is a similar example
    Pema Pera: completely open
    Pema Pera: if you would have proposed the idea of wikipedia ten years ago, you would have heard a hundred reasons why it could not be done :-)
    jayden Nayar: it's quite a change for the older people at work to understand that the younger grads coming through are used to open and transparent collaboration ... a strange idea for some of our directors.
    Tarmel Udimo: interesting
    Pema Pera: yes, I can see that
    Pema Pera: same in my field, but uneven, even among the youngsters, since tenure structure is determined by the old powers that be . . . .
    Pema Pera: (of astrophysics)

    We begin to say goodbyes.

    Pema Pera: sorry, I have to go to dinner now here (7 pm in Japan)
    Gaya Ethaniel: Enjoy your evening Pema
    Tarmel Udimo: okay see you
    Tarmel Udimo: have fun
    jayden Nayar: have a good night
    Pema Pera: Thanks Gaya, Tarmel, good meeting you, Jayden
    Pema Pera: we get together here four times a day
    Pema Pera: 1 pm 7 pm 1 am 7 am Second Life Time
    Pema Pera: (it's 1:48 am now; see upper right part of your screen)
    Pema Pera: bye for now!
    Gaya Ethaniel: I must get the day started also. Could you send me the rest of the log Tarmel?
    Tarmel Udimo: sure
    Pema Pera: thanks, Gaya!

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