2009.01.11 19:00 - Space and vedic architecture

steven Michinaga was Guardian on call. The comments are stevenaia's

 Threedee Shepherd and I were the only attendees 

stevenaia Michinaga: hi Three
Threedee Shepherd: Evening, Steve
stevenaia Michinaga: I just IM'd Sylectra, she says hello
stevenaia Michinaga: how are you?
Threedee Shepherd: Same , thx
Threedee Shepherd: fine.
Threedee Shepherd: and you
stevenaia Michinaga: other than loosing an engine in wife's car, I;m ok
Threedee Shepherd: a rather big item to "lose"
stevenaia Michinaga: won;t know till we price an engine
 
.........  automotive details removed
 
Threedee Shepherd: ^.^
stevenaia Michinaga: you guys have snow there?
Threedee Shepherd: Given that I am not GoC tonight, that leads me to conclude that you are
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
Threedee Shepherd: The mtns have snow, as always. Boulder/Denver actually has mild winters
Threedee Shepherd: It has snowed, and is all melted, here. In fact we had a major grassfire outside of town three days age, due to sparks and high winds
stevenaia Michinaga: I offered to give Pema a break since I am usually here on sunday night he seems to be like the dutch boy who plugs the missing Guardian slots
Threedee Shepherd chuckles
Threedee Shepherd: Ann is now living in her apartment in NC. I expect she will be back to SL tomorrow (I think she will be connected then)
stevenaia Michinaga: send congrats to her when you make contact
Threedee Shepherd: ok
Threedee Shepherd: did you have any *topic* in mind for tonight?
stevenaia Michinaga: quite the journey, I;m sure it will serve her well
stevenaia Michinaga: no, I came unprepared
stevenaia Michinaga: this morning Adams and i discussed stress
stevenaia Michinaga: or lack of it
stevenaia Michinaga: always amazed at where topics lead
Threedee Shepherd: +that is true, about where topics lead.

ThreeDee begins a disussion regarding "space" and a book he recently purchased.

Threedee Shepherd: I just ordered a book on human reaction to build space (Don't recall the title--Amazon said I needed to read it ^.^)
stevenaia Michinaga: someone should do one of those topical network diagrams of sessions and topics, I;m sure it would be interesting
stevenaia Michinaga: would be interested in the title when you come across it
stevenaia Michinaga: there are books on "personal space"
Threedee Shepherd: Yes. I think this is "relevant" to PaB given that in some sence, space is a manufactured concept made up by humans
stevenaia Michinaga: sounds interesting
Threedee Shepherd: G. Bachelard: "The Poetics of Space"
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Threedee Shepherd: I think of space and dimensionality in terms of 3D representations, such as SL.
Threedee Shepherd: So, here is a design question, when is space "foreground" as opposed to background or context?
stevenaia Michinaga: I;m sure there are many ways to define what space is, by its container enclosure
stevenaia Michinaga: but space is the ether that fills the container
Threedee Shepherd: so, space is nothing (but air)
Threedee Shepherd: ??
stevenaia Michinaga: space is what defines it
stevenaia Michinaga: walls, hills floors and ceilings
Threedee Shepherd: So, if this room I am sitting in suddenly had all the walls, floor and ceiling disappear, does that mean the space would no longer exist?
stevenaia Michinaga: not sure where foreground and background become the other
stevenaia Michinaga: I would say so, space undefined is infinite and can't be perceived then
stevenaia Michinaga: cannot be defined
stevenaia Michinaga: look in the distance, the direction of the info sphere (at the edge of the pavlion)
stevenaia Michinaga: it's a field
stevenaia Michinaga: nothing defines the edges
stevenaia Michinaga: space with no beginning or edge
stevenaia Michinaga: like a desert
Threedee Shepherd: hmmm
stevenaia Michinaga: as you define it by enclosure it becomes something else
stevenaia Michinaga: a container
Threedee Shepherd: does it really "become something else" or something additional?
stevenaia Michinaga: if you add something to nothing, it;s becomes both
Threedee Shepherd: wait, are you saying that space is nothing?
Threedee Shepherd: empty space that is
stevenaia Michinaga: I am equating undefined space to that
stevenaia Michinaga: it;s space, but not "a space"
Threedee Shepherd: really two different words as in "space" and "a space"
stevenaia Michinaga: yes
stevenaia Michinaga: it will be interesting what your book says about space
stevenaia Michinaga: or spaces
Threedee Shepherd: I wonder if there are languages that actually use two different terms?
stevenaia Michinaga: since I usually deal with spaces not undefined edgeless space, I am not sure,
stevenaia Michinaga: I suspect the book will talk about the former
Threedee Shepherd: yes, that is what I expect

The discussion of space takes and turn to the subcontinent

Threedee Shepherd: Oh, here is something interesting from the web that I found in Wikipedia. Space is one of the five basic elements in Indian philosophy
stevenaia Michinaga: space is very easy to define, it;s almost irresistible
stevenaia Michinaga: well defined space is another art form
stevenaia Michinaga: I know a bit about Vedic architectural design
Threedee Shepherd: mmm?
stevenaia Michinaga: pre-dates feng shui and is firmly rooted in indian architecture and I suspect the other elements
Threedee Shepherd: Interesting, feng shui is ( as I barely understand it) about how things are arrayed IN a space, not just the space itself
stevenaia Michinaga: it's about arrangement and orientation
stevenaia Michinaga: I can say I am a practitioner of either
stevenaia Michinaga: but every now and then I will look to Vastu reference as I do with Christopher Alexanders books
Threedee Shepherd: mmmhmm
stevenaia Michinaga: lots on it in google
Threedee Shepherd: There must be experimental psychology related to feng shui??
stevenaia Michinaga: more of a history, I suspect empirical science, like chinese medicine
stevenaia Michinaga: thousands of years of knowledge
Threedee Shepherd: knowledge or mythology?
stevenaia Michinaga: depends if you believe, I know an architect in Philly who was designing a vedic development and had to get his plans reviewed by a vedic Master in europe to certify the designs
Threedee Shepherd: I make the distinction that one does not have to believe in "knowledge"
stevenaia Michinaga: space orientation was critical (N S E W) as well as wall thickness
stevenaia Michinaga: but you believe knowledge is true whether you believe in it or not?
Threedee Shepherd: Side-issue: Given how much of street array and thus buildings is ns/ew, I have wondered if it make a difference to sleep basically parallel to the earth's magnetic field, as opposite to perpendicular to it?
stevenaia Michinaga: interesting point, in these vedic homes the bed orientation was determined and all wiring was not over or under the bed
stevenaia Michinaga: is that knowledge or mythology
Threedee Shepherd: well I guess there can be false knowledge, so I expect I need other words her (at another time)
stevenaia Michinaga: :)
Threedee Shepherd: Well, it's interesting, whichever.
stevenaia Michinaga: if someone believes these magnetic fields have an influence... w/o science to back that up, they must have some reason to belive it must
Threedee Shepherd: Agreed. But the reason could be that devils cannot see along a particular direction.
stevenaia Michinaga: http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Vedic+Architecture-a0116733117
and http://www.green-architecture.com/vastuved-more.php
stevenaia Michinaga: just one site
Threedee Shepherd: Thanks, I will read it later.
Threedee Shepherd: time to go for now. I'll let you know if the book I ordered is any good.
stevenaia Michinaga: thanks
Threedee Shepherd: g'night
stevenaia Michinaga: bye for now